Workshop — February 26, 2026
Chapters
Alan Clendenin
9:03:35AM Welcome to Tampa City Council workshop. I would like to recognize councilman Bill Carlson.
Bill Carlson
9:03:39AM Good morning, everybody. Today, we accidentally have two people show up to do the invocation. What were going to do is have Captain Chaplain Lockhart from macdill, thank you for coming All The Way over here and representing to do the invocation. And Jamie Adair, who is sitting behind him, is going to lead US in the pledge of allegiance, a resident of South Tampa. Turns out that he went to school with Council Member Viera. Im sure well hear some stories later. If everyone will please rise and they will hand off to do the pledge of allegiance. Thank you. Gracious and eternal God, we come before you in this chamber representing a community woven together by a common purpose of service to one another and supporting the everyday lives of those who Call This Place home. This Place that includes military service members, family members of those deployed, women and men in and out of uniform who have dedicated their lives in service to this nation. When asked what we are to do, a Prophet said we are to act justly, to love mercy and walk humbly with God. So Lord, today, in this meeting, let those words burn within US. Stir US to do justice, to be fair in our decisions, to have equity in our policies and protect the vulnerable among US. Ignite in US a deep love of mercy. That we would be kind, that compassion would heal our divisions and grace bind US together. And teach US to walk humbly, recognizing that true leadership listens before speaking, serves before being served and honors God by honoring one another. In this shared space, empower this Council to lead with integrity and with courage, and May our actions reflect mutual service for the greater good. Unite US, o God, in this high calling, and let our work together be a living testimony to what you require. We humbly pray in your name, amen. [Pledge of allegiance]
Alan Clendenin
9:06:01AM I have a joke about Guido jumping the gun, but ill refrain from that. Good morning, Clerk. Can we get a roll call, please?
Charlie Miranda
9:06:11AM Here.
Guido Maniscalco
9:06:12AM Here.
Lynn Hurtak
9:06:12AM Here.
Naya Young
9:06:14AM Here.
Luis Viera
9:06:15AM Here.
Bill Carlson
9:06:16AM Here.
Alan Clendenin
9:06:17AM Here.
The Clerk
9:06:18AM We have a physical quorum.
Alan Clendenin
9:06:20AM Thank you. Good morning. Lets do a little cleanup on the agenda. I have a motion from Councilman Carlson requesting that item 5 be received and filed. Can I get a motion? We have a motion from Councilman Carlson. Second from Councilman Maniscalco. All in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have IT. I have a memo from Councilman Carlson requesting that items 6 and 7 be continued to the October 22nd workshop. Im sorry. Is IT the 23rd? We have a motion from Councilman Carlson. Second from Councilman Viera. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Ayes have IT. Very good. Anybody else have anything for the agenda? Councilwoman Hurtak.
Lynn Hurtak
9:06:58AM We have a written report about approved and active signs, but I would like to move the development -- I thought we were talking about digital signs.
Alan Clendenin
9:07:20AM We have 4 and 8.
Lynn Hurtak
9:07:22AM 8 is only just making written report. Then ill make that at the end of the meeting.
Alan Clendenin
9:07:31AM Can we get a motion to receive and file number 8? We have a motion from Councilman Miranda. Second from Councilwoman Hurtak. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Ayes have IT.
Luis Viera
9:07:40AM If I May, Mr. Chair, same thing for number 4, if I May. Receive and file.
Alan Clendenin
9:07:47AM We have a motion to receive and file -- no, that was a discussion.
Lynn Hurtak
9:07:52AM But IT said transmitting a written report.
Alan Clendenin
9:07:54AM I want to make sure nobody wanted a discussion.
Lynn Hurtak
9:07:57AM No. But I will have something at the end to actually get started on the conversation.
Alan Clendenin
9:08:01AM Motion from Councilman Viera to receive and file item number 4. Who is the second? Councilman Maniscalco seconded. All those in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have IT.
Bill Carlson
9:08:09AM Can I make one quick comment about 8 since were receiving and filing?
Alan Clendenin
9:08:13AM Sure. Councilman Carlson.
Bill Carlson
9:08:15AM The report, there is a long report about this, IT talks about two that were permitted by staff in downtown, which apparently was legal per City Council rules from years ago. However, the current use with active motion, the City Attorney told me has not been permitted and is out of code right now. I think, as I understand IT, that has to be approved by City Council. There are some questions about the status of at least the sign at the arena regarding what they are able to do with IT. Also May be a question about the settlement agreement with them to the billboard companies. But we can discuss that another time. I want to point out that theres been opposition from representatives of the lightning regarding other people having digital signs when their sign is out of code. Thank you.
Alan Clendenin
9:09:11AM A couple of announcements to make. Weve been talking a lot about board appointments. Were going to make a habit of announcing the board appointments at the beginning of the meetings. I would like to make everyone aware that we have the following positions open on our City Council appointees. Neighborhood Representative on the Natural Resource Advisory Committee. A Board Member on the Architectural Review Commission. Alternate Member on the Architectural Review Commission. Architect on the Barrio Latino Commission. Resident of the Ybor City historical district on the Barrio Latino Commission. Alternate Member on Code Enforcement public nuisance abatement board. Qualifications for those items, some of them require certain qualifications are available on Tampa city website. If you have any questions, of course, reach out to your member of City Council or one of your at-large members of City Council. Another announcement, reached out by the Clerk and Cttv, IT appears as though they sometimes have a difficult time with US if we talk over each other or if somebody is speaking out of turn, with closed captioning, and then capturing the minutes. So I want to remind councilpersons, wait until you are acknowledged so we can announce your name and you talk independently, and the closed captioning and the Clerk can capture the minutes accurately. Having a difficult time kind of discerning those issues. Mr. Shelby, you looked like you were ready to say something.
Martin Shelby
9:10:36AM No, sir. Thank you.
Alan Clendenin
9:10:37AM And You are anticipating the beginning of this meeting. Also, IT looks like well have a nice short meeting today and tonight. I think its going to be quick and easy.
Martin Shelby
9:10:50AM We historically call that a jinx.
Bill Carlson
9:10:55AM Say one more thing about the agenda?
Alan Clendenin
9:10:57AM Yes, Sir.
Bill Carlson
9:11:00AM You didnt say my name.
Alan Clendenin
9:11:01AM Councilman Carlson. Say my name.
Bill Carlson
9:11:05AM Last week, We talked about how in New Business We talked about how We need backup documents so The Public is not blindsided. I got a lot -- maybe you all did too. I got a lot of calls and e-mails about The Public being upset that several of the items dont have sufficient backup. I think weve got a motion going forward to change that, that there should not be verbal presentations that include documents that have not been disclosed to The Public because The Public deserves a chance to look at IT in advance. Thank you.
Alan Clendenin
9:11:36AM We had two folks registered for online public comments. Both of those items have been received and filed. Mr. Randolph and Mr. Doss, I know you are probably standing by, but both have been received and filed so We will not be doing public comments on those items today. Thank you very much. Some were moved to October. Well see you in October for those. Okay. Here We go. Item number 1.
Dennis Rogero
9:12:13AM Dennis Rogero, Chief Financial Officer. Thank you as always for taking the time to listen to our presentation today. Weve got a couple of presentations. Well begin with the pension fund. Can I have the pension fund up, please? And there IT is. Thank you very much. Our pension overview as requested by Council. Here is the motion in particular about the health of tampas pensions and an explanation of the pension liability reported during the last budget workshop. I believe that was August. What We shared with you back then what We affectionately called a moodys scorecard. And there is a lot of stuff going on here. But you will remember, im sure, from last year. That highlighted light blue line across there are our adjusted net pension liabilities. I think thats pretty much the substance of the motion and what We want to talk to you about today. You see at the top there, IT is entitled revenues to liabilities ratios for Tampa and our, I think, 11 other peer cities. All The Way to the left is Tampa. You can see were doing pretty, pretty well for when you compare IT to our peer cities across the country. That particular adjusted net pension liability of 1.15 Billion, thats in thousands, so that is a billion dollars, and then We have some other liabilities, other post-employment benefits, which well talk briefly. Right above the net pension liabilities is what typically gets most of the attention and most of the discussion. And thats our bona fide debt. That is our financing. And well get into a little bit of the subtleties between these particular line items in just a moment. First, a little bit of a disclaimer, for lack of a better word. I think Council knows, but if you dont and if the public doesnt know, the General Employees' Pension Fund and the Fire And Police Pension Fund, We typically call Ge and F P. They are completely separate and independent boards from the City and the City management. City members, as you see, May be members of the Board. Im a member of each Board, for example, but the City does not manage these programs. We contribute funding to these programs under certain conditions and understandings. So I am not here to speak on behalf of the pension boards. That would be up to the chair of each Board. Another reason I want to reiterate that this information presented here is all public information. Its been published. Were not sharing anything outside of what the pension boards have already shared. Im a bit biased, but I am very, very proud of our two pension boards. You see an award from the Public Pension Coordinating Council on the left for pension standards and funding and administration, excuse me, for the Ge, the General Employees fund, and on the right, a recognition award for administration for the Tampa Fire And Police Fund. I have been on the Fire And Police Pension Fund Board for, got to be 15 years now, and six or seven years I think on the Ge Pension Board. I find each Board to be full of very knowledgeable, very motivated individuals. And im very privileged to be among them. And the award you see here, the Public Pension Coordinating Council, represents over 500 of the largest pension programs in the country. So this really is the gold standard. Its very similar, which youll be hearing about next month, to the government finance officers award, that the Revenue and Finance Department gets. So a little bit of bragging, and I also want to point out particularly the award on the left. Thats not just for administration, but its also for funding. So our pension funds are solidly funded. Well get into a little detail about that in just a moment. You see our agenda. Well do a quick retirement programs overview. There is some nomenclature and terminology that I think is confusing to someone, unless you are neck deep into IT and then get into each pension program individually. And here is our overview. Made more complicated by the fact that both of them have the word defined and both of them have the word plans. On the left, you have the defined benefit plan. Those are bona fide pension programs. They guarantee to the retiree a specific, as you see here, formula, based monthly payout for the rest of that retirees life. The risk associated with the investments, et cetera, are all on the program. They are not on the individual. In contrast, what ill share with you over on the right. The defined contribution plans. Thats an Employee who gives a defined contribution. And any number of factors could determine just how much that retiree takes home. The risk is on the Employee. Affectionately known sometimes as deferred compensation programs, here We have a 457 program, also known as 401(k) programs, things like that. So youve got a defined benefit, a certain benefit when you retire on the left versus what well see on the right, based on decisions, based on the market, and based on sometimes the discipline of the Employee and what they want to set aside. Well be talking today about the defined benefit plans on the left. On the left, the Fire And Police pension, youll see both of these are special acts of the State of Florida. In order to change these plans, We have to go to the legislature. The Fire And Police pension consists of three members, each from Fire Rescue and the Police Department. They are elected positions and three members appointed by the Mayor on one of those. And you see the support staff is completely separate from City Government. I want to reiterate, plan management is completely separate from City Government for both of these plans. Its just one provides in-house support, one utilizes members of the Revenue and Finance staff. And on the right, seven members in the Ge Pension Fund, three elected by active employees. Three appointed by the Mayor, and then theres me, the Chief Financial Officer. Again, I want to reiterate the privilege of serving with all of those individuals. Sometimes its thankless. Its a lot of detailed information, but I appreciate all of their -- their levels of knowledge and their motivation. Wanted to put that in here because We have to remind ourselves of what this is. We dont know what a pension holiday means in the City Of Tampa. Im proud to say that its when a local government, you see here, contributes less than what the required contribution is to keep that pension plan where you want that pension plan to be. So every single year -- well get to IT in just a minute -- the City, even though We dont manage these plans, We have to contribute funding to these plans. And these contributions are identified by an actuarial analysis. And We do IT every single year and have done IT every single year. These analyses are reviewed by the Department Of Revenue at the state level. There are reasons other localities May take pension holidays, but IT is good financial management practice 101 is to werent what your actuarially calculated to contribute in order to keep your pension fund solid. We dont do that. One of the reasons I bring this up, youre going to hear about our funding levels, and youll hear often in the media about other localities, governmental localities and their Public Pension Funds. And they run the gamut from, I think jacksonville right now is 50%, which is far below ideal. And you have some very, very solid or very, very overly solid pension fund programs out there in the mid to high 90s. Its very, very rare for a Public Pension Fund to reach a 100% funding level. Generally, anything 80% and above is viewed as very, very solid. But IT varies for any number of different reasons. Just trying to put that into context. Here We go to the General Employee Pension Plan. This is right out of the financial statements. One of the things ID like to highlight here is in green. The City-Required contribution. This is from fiscal year '25 to the current fiscal year. You see at the top, the current fiscal year is the closest to the description. Im used to looking at IT The Other Way around. Hey, these are financial statements. The takeaway from this, I think, is that the contribution level stayed the same. Viewed that as a positive. IT did not go up. And in the fine print, if you will, below, youll see some of the reasons why this is a positive picture. Actuarial gain, higher than anticipated. We always like that. Inactive mortality experience. Pretty sure that just means less deaths. And favorable salary increase experience. So from a fund perspective, were keeping pace with the expectations in terms of what the City is required to contribute. I will also note here above those green highlights, you see member contributions. Youre going to see that very differently in the Fire And Police Pension Fund because General Employees, non-high hazard, nonpublic safety employees do not contribute to the retirement plan. Its all City. Ill highlight that when We get to Fire And Police. The funded ratios, ill start at the bottom and Work My Way up to the top. The funded ratio you see as of October 1st, 2024, is just over 80%. Again, solid, and you see to the right there, an improvement over October 1st, 2023. But IT has decreased over the years. And as a Board Member, I can speak my opinion. I would like to see that go higher and the Board is taking steps to increase that funded level to the best of our and their ability. One of those steps is you see the actuarial rate of return. Reduced over the past several years from 8% to 7%. Thats a pretty substantive decrease. Our history and our projected future earnings from investments are simply not where We thought theyd be. So were going to lower that expectation, which is going to force to US increase the amount of funding weve got to put into the fund, thus bolstering that fund. And then the amortization of actuarial accrued liability. Oh, I could go on and on. Im just joking. I cant go on and on. But basically what that is, is shortening the time frame to provide that funding. Give you a quick and very, very simple example. If you have a hundred dollars and you got 20 years to pay that hundred dollars, well, thats just $5 a year, right? Depending on the amount of time that you amortize that obligation, We could lower contributions drastically, but IT really wouldnt give a realistic picture of what the needs are. If you shortened that time period from 20 years to 10 years, well, then ive got to provide more money each of the ten years. Thats what the Board is doing in this particular instance. Again, an effort at increasing that funding level, still solid, but We want better. And you see the actuarial contribution percentage of salary history here. A note in fiscal year 2020, there was a change in actuarial -- ive got to stop saying that word -- actuarial methodology, but you see a steady climb, do We not? Thats one of the reasons were happy -- ill say happy. Were happy that the contribution percentage stayed the same for fiscal year '26. And here are one of the vagaries associated, of course, as Council knows, with any investment, but highlighted here in terms of public investment. IT looks like an ekg. Youve got some really good years, and youve got some really bad years. I think fiscal year 2022 was a bad year for, well, everybody. But really, really strong returns, I think, in this particular picture. You see in green that assumed rate of return on the left, a little over 7.5%, We have purposefully lowered that again, trying to inhibit our expectations and necessitate an increase in funding to bolster that. And what the Actuary does and im not going to do IT justice, takes an incredibly detailed and massive amount of data and makes long, decades-long term predictions. And thats what were trying to work with, coinciding with you see here the obvious volatility in investment returns. The Fire And Police Pension Plan. A similar printout from the Ge Pension Plan. In other words, and im highlighting what We think are very, very positive. You can see in green there, both the member contribution and the City contribution as a proportion went down pretty good amount from the previous fiscal year. They are widely known, and sometimes "they" being this pension fund. Sometimes they are nationally referenced for their outstanding investment returns. Our investment manager has been called the Oracle Of Tampa. And you see that --
Alan Clendenin
9:26:54AM Thats not you, right?
Dennis Rogero
9:26:56AM That is not me. [ laughter that is not me. Although I appreciate some people May have inferred that IT was me, but its not me by any means, no, no. Very, very knowledgeable individual. So they are well known. And you are seeing that play out here and youll see that play out in the next slide. Their funded ratio is increasing and is also very, very strong. 889 Percent. IT has also come down somewhat in the past couple of years. Again, that fiscal year 2022 investment cycle really had an adverse impact. But this is very, very solid. Ill skip ahead, but ill go back. And one of the reasons its very solid is you can see in fiscal year '23, over a 33 percent return on investments. That is -- its beyond outstanding. I cant come up with an adjective for IT. Terrible, terrible year in 2022. I think thats part of a big club. But they have some outstanding returns, and this is just through 2019, they have some outstanding returns prior to that. Go back for a history there for you. You can see the contribution percentage continued to increase for the last couple of years. But we saw a nice decrease, as I mentioned, in fiscal year 2025 and another nice decrease in the current fiscal year. Again, the ekg of investment returns in this environment. Give you a little bit of history, again, just to provide some context, im going to try to sum IT up without reading from the slide. Prior to 2010, off balance sheet. Okay, thats technical jargon for nobody was really paying attention to what the pension liability was. I think as a result, the experts will tell you -- and I agree that IT wasnt giving the most accurate picture of an entitys finances. If you have a long-term significant liability, first of all, you ought to surface that a little more visibly. And secondly, you ought to pay attention to IT when youre trying to determine just how fiscally sound you are. And you see the tipping point there was the great recession or the great financial crisis. IT really brought to the surface the fact that there were some outstanding significant liabilities that really nobody was looking at very closely. And then you see in 2011, moodys made a change here and then continued to make change and then the other two major credit rating agencies, SP and Fitch, they updated their methodologies. Before I turn to that slide, so what youre getting, and what continues to evolve, is a better, clearer, more visible picture of an agencys true financial picture and fiscal health. You see some of the -- from the moodys scorecard, you see some of these factors right here. Consider long-term liabilities ratio, which makes up 20% of an overall score. So IT is a pretty good chunk of change, 20%, for something that used to really be a footnote. Include and evaluate an issuers financial profile. Of course, I think IT goes without saying, but we put IT in there anyways, not a stand-alone indicator but IT is a significant indicator. Here is where you really get a little wonkish, debt. Debt has historically, as you see there, meant bonding, financing, line of credit, bank note. Now were separating true debt from, again, a long-term liability. Something that can be viewed as debt but isnt technically debt. And then you see the liabilities. And that is our presentation, Council. I hope IT was informative. I hope IT wasnt too detailed and too wonkish. Were happy to answer any questions for you.
Alan Clendenin
9:31:15AM Do I have to pay you a royalty fee if I have that recording on when im having trouble sleeping?
Dennis Rogero
9:31:22AM Yes, yes and IT is significant.
Alan Clendenin
9:31:26AM Councilman Miranda first.
Charlie Miranda
9:31:30AM Thank you for the fine presentation. I see Mr. Sacco in the audience. I wasnt here when that happened, but I believe that the Fire Union, Police Union, maybe the fire started IT all, Mayor Greco was first elected the first time around, there were individuals that -- they came to an agreement because they were not doing well in the funding of the pensions. They hired some firm, I forget the name of the firm, because they have done one hell of a job throughout the years. Am I correct? I dont know if I am because I wasnt here. Do you recall anything like that, Mr. Sacco? You are not old enough.
Alan Clendenin
9:32:08AM Hes like 20 years old. [ laughter
Charlie Miranda
9:32:11AM I said hes not old enough. But I think thats how They started. I think thats still the apparatus is going on now. I think They have the private investor that does IT, am I correct?
Dennis Rogero
9:32:22AM You are correct. I can add a little context to that. I dont know how IT started, but I can tell you weve had the same Financial Management Company for 40 plus years. Called bowen and company. Jay Bowen is the lead on that, he is the son of the founder and you can look IT up anywhere.
Charlie Miranda
9:32:40AM They have done a fantastic job in handling that account. Kudos to all them who were here. I wasnt. But I still memorize what I read sometime in the paper a hundred years ago.
Alan Clendenin
9:32:53AM What is a paper? Councilman Carlson followed by Councilwoman Hurtak.
Bill Carlson
9:33:01AM Thank you for doing that. A few questions. Page 4, I think IT is, the one with the chart, how were the peer groups selected? And are there any Florida cities that are doing exceptionally well? The scores I look at, miami usually does worse than we do. Are there any cities that are doing really, really well? Like, Ft. Lauderdale, I dont know what the cities might be, but any doing better than US?
Dennis Rogero
9:33:31AM We can answer that. What I would ask is could We answer that question under the debt presentation because We really have our debt scoring and ratings and the factors that lead to those comparisons under that presentation. Of course, ive got the Professionals here that can speak to IT. If you wouldnt mind putting that under the other one.
Bill Carlson
9:33:52AM On that page 4, if You had to pick one number to say this is the overall main number that people choose, like You talked about how the health of the pension has been higher or lower over the years, but if You had to pick one data point, which one would IT be?
Dennis Rogero
9:34:09AM I would pick right below the quote, unquote, total debt line, the liabilities to revenues percentage. Followed closely by the moodys very, very bottom line, moodys issuer credit rating. Of course, I have professionals here that are much more of an expert and much smarter than I am. But from my perspective, as well share with you in the debt presentation and shared in the past, that issuer credit rating is basically the citys fico score. Thats how strong we are from a credit perspective. And you can see we are very, very strong. IT is the second highest you can get. And we are in very, very good company. The liabilities to revenue, similar to what we were discussing in the pension presentation, that takes your debt, your pension liabilities, your other post-employment liabilities, things like retiree health care and other long term, and this is everything that we foresee the city being on the hook for. We throw IT against our total revenues.
Bill Carlson
9:35:13AM Is there a place with moodys or somewhere where they would rank the number, liabilities to revenues? Would they rank that number for all the cities in Florida? Is there a way that has one through whatever that would show US that?
Dennis Rogero
9:35:26AM I do not know. Someone Here May know. Im told, yes, there is.
Bill Carlson
9:35:31AM The question always comes up, when you pick cities, is there adverse selection. Do we pick cities that make US look particularly good or bad? And how do you compare that category, long-term liability and revenue, how do you compare that to the funded ratio? Is that the same thing or different?
Dennis Rogero
9:35:49AM IT is somewhat the same thing. If I could have the presentation back up.
Bill Carlson
9:35:53AM Thats page 14, I think.
Dennis Rogero
9:35:57AM You see the adjusted net pension liabilities, that is an actuarial calculation. I dont know that youll be able to cross-reference IT with what we identify at the city.
Alan Clendenin
9:36:08AM Cttv, can you go to page 14, please?
Bill Carlson
9:36:14AM Page 14 talks about the funded ratio. Segue a second, IT seems like in your presentation, you alluded to -- I dont remember the exact words -- higher in some years and lower in others. The Police And Fire one is like 89%. This one is 80.1. Is IT possible to get a chart for either the liabilities to revenues just for Tampa and show that going All The Way back to the great recession?
Dennis Rogero
9:36:41AM Certainly.
Bill Carlson
9:36:42AM Just a line graph so we can see that for each of them. And then maybe also add the funded ratio, just so we could see IT. Based on what you said, if IT is above 80, its good. 889 Would seem -- yeah, round up, 89 is a pretty good ratio.
Dennis Rogero
9:37:02AM Very solid.
Bill Carlson
9:37:03AM Like, if you go to the chart, page 21, IT shows that dip in 2022. IT would be interesting to see how IT correlates. Did We have to top IT up significantly to make up for that? You know, how do We deal with that? That leads into another question. Can you get US that chart or should I make a motion for IT?
Dennis Rogero
9:37:26AM Ill get IT to you.
Bill Carlson
9:37:28AM Just Tampa going back to, if you want to make IT before the great recession. So 2007, great recession, 2009. Maybe if you could, 2005 or something just to show those two lines. Liabilities, revenues and funded ratio. On page 21, you talked about, what is IT, 2023, 33%. I guess there are certain risk thresholds that the Fund Managers have for these.
Dennis Rogero
9:37:57AM Yes.
Bill Carlson
9:37:57AM Did we take a higher risk level to try to make up? Is that what happened to get 33%?
Dennis Rogero
9:38:04AM Generally higher risk, higher return. Sorry to interrupt you. I shouldnt short shrift the risk. There is a higher risk but also, and I think history bears IT out, just very, very talented investment vehicle decisions.
Bill Carlson
9:38:19AM I remember were separate from the State System.
Dennis Rogero
9:38:22AM Yes.
Bill Carlson
9:38:23AM I remember back during, what was IT, 2008, the lehman crisis hit the State Pension System badly. Alex was the CFO and helped turn IT around. The state before that was taking kind of huge, hindsight, huge risks and then -- on derivatives and IT failed.
Dennis Rogero
9:38:45AM I believe also pension holidays associated with that. Youll see IT in the Media sometimes. Again, they wont contribute nearly what they should or as you said, Councilman, theyll take, in hindsight, to great a risk.
Bill Carlson
9:38:58AM Page 4, IT seems like the debt number now is higher than IT was when we talked about IT back in October or whenever we talked about IT last a few months ago. Has the debt for the pension gone up since we last talked about the budget or has IT stayed stable?
Dennis Rogero
9:39:18AM Its gone up, if im not mistaken. Pretty stable. Now, I think IT would be unusual to stay exactly the same, but I think IT has gone up, what I would say, wouldnt say insignificantly, but to a very minor degree.
Bill Carlson
9:39:40AM Is IT like 30 or 40 percent or 5%?
Dennis Rogero
9:39:44AM We can do a comparisons.
Bill Carlson
9:39:46AM I remember a few years ago, if I remember correctly, Jacksonville had to pass a special tax to be able to top up their pension. Can you assure US, mainly the pensioners, the people relying on this, can you assure US that were far away from that? Or is there anything we need to look at to make sure that doesnt happen?
Dennis Rogero
9:40:06AM That is a good question. Jacksonville received a great deal of media attention associated with their pension programs and still sometimes receive some attention. Again, I think they are at 50% funded level. I can speak as a city CFO. I cant speak for the boards. Again, I do not anticipate anything of that being necessary.
Bill Carlson
9:40:23AM Month or so ago, I mentioned that some Pensioners during the holidays said they were disappointed that they didnt get their checks until the 5th of January. And if you get IT at night, you cant cash IT until the next day, and people rely on IT. Were you able to check into that question about float? Are we using float? If we do, where do we put the proceeds for IT?
Dennis Rogero
9:40:47AM No. Thank you. I apologize in advance for not getting back to you on that. We did look into IT. First of all, We do not use a float for the Pension Funds. That particular instance was a system error associated with the timing of the end of the month and a weekend.
Bill Carlson
9:41:09AM If you havent already, the Pension Group might want to send out a communication just so folks know and they are not afraid of that happening. The last question, the reason why I brought this up is because there are people in the Financial Services Industry that have come to me anecdotally and said, hey, you need to pay attention to the pension, make sure that everything is right. IT doesnt look exactly right. Is there anything not on these charts that we and the public need to know about the pensions that we need to be preparing for? Any other risks that were not aware of or any other challenges or problems with the system that we need to be aware of?
Dennis Rogero
9:41:46AM Ill give myself wiggle room here. The short answer is no, but this is a very, very volatile environment. I dont need to tell Council or the public that. You saw fiscal year 2022 investment return. Again, a worldwide Black swan event. The property tax discussion thats Taking Place, you know, at the Legislature, there are any number of vulnerabilities in the financial system right now. And I dont want to act like theres not. Based on what we know and the decisions of the city and I think in my capacity as a board member, the decisions of the Pension Board, no.
Alan Clendenin
9:42:24AM Councilwoman Hurtak followed by Councilman Miranda for follow-up.
Lynn Hurtak
9:42:28AM Thank you very much. I really appreciate. We sat down earlier for a good robust discussion on this prior to this and I want to say thank you for that. I think the public also needs to remember that we dont really have any control over this. But yet IT is part of our -- a part of how we are judged. I think that was the part, I think for me that was the most frightening, surprising. I mean, good in our case that we have great people on these boards. But if we didnt, what could we do about IT. And the only opportunity is, to the city is really the mayors appointees and Yourself, who is on those boards. Its a very interesting conundrum to be in. Municipalities, according to the State, are limited in what kind of investments they can invest in. Are pensions held to those same standards?
Dennis Rogero
9:43:31AM Pensions have a wider -- they have more flexibility, ill put IT to You That Way.
Lynn Hurtak
9:43:35AM And because of that, we dont really -- I mean, what are these folks doing to prepare because of the volatility in the market right now and just the state, everything. Everything that were looking at, what are some of those things that the Pension Boards are looking at to kind of protect and insulate themselves and their members?
Dennis Rogero
9:44:03AM That is a great question, but I would Want To Circle back with you with statements from the chairs of those boards.
Lynn Hurtak
9:44:08AM Okay. Well, I think thats something that would be lovely to get so the public also could -- and, quite frankly, Our Staff, so they know what were doing. Because im looking at all sorts of -- I mean, im concerned looking at my investments and looking at the family stuff. So, yeah, its a big deal. I think everybody is concerned.
Dennis Rogero
9:44:35AM IT is a good question. I Don't Want To Downplay IT. Again, I'm trying to strike a balance between speaking for the boards, which I dont want to do.
Lynn Hurtak
9:44:42AM Exactly.
Dennis Rogero
9:44:43AM But I can absolutely agree with you on the uncertainty and the volatility. I know I sound like a broken record, how many years have I been coming up, its really volatility right now, well, its really volatility.
Lynn Hurtak
9:44:56AM Its definitely. Were seeing IT. Again, I appreciate the prior conversation and this conversation now. IT is kind of dry, but its really important. Thank you.
Alan Clendenin
9:45:06AM Councilman Miranda.
Charlie Miranda
9:45:07AM Thank you. I have many things to discuss. First of all, as I look at the chart, the revenue to liability ratio, Tampa, so forth, so on, only three cities listed that have a big a, little a 1. Does that mean that they are better ratio, better prepared than the others?
Dennis Rogero
9:45:27AM If I can have --
Charlie Miranda
9:45:28AM The ratings of the Bonding Agencies.
Dennis Rogero
9:45:31AM Understood. If I could have the presentation. There we go.
Charlie Miranda
9:45:42AM That one right there.
Dennis Rogero
9:45:44AM You are referencing the very bottom line.
Charlie Miranda
9:45:46AM Tampa, orlando, arlington, in that area. Are those the highest rated ones on the sheet then?
Dennis Rogero
9:45:52AM The highest rated one on the sheet is Minneapolis, Sir, with a triple-a. They are the only triple-a. That is the highest you can attain.
Charlie Miranda
9:46:00AM The next thing is this: why bond? No city goes out and borrows money I would assume if IT doesnt need IT for different things. When you look at our needs, IT is on the time of history, not on the time when you want to buy something. For instance, the water and sewer lines that We had under the City Of Tampa, We were spending anywhere from 30 to 40 million just repairing the lines. Every year. Likely every year more costly because the pipes were from 80 to 100 years old and more. When you did one pipe and did IT from here to Mr. Carlson, IT was fine. Repaired within four, five days. You go from here to where I see some of my good friends there, IT broke again the next following week. So We had to do something, and thats part of what We did. And We went and did something, all that I think was $2 billion or something like that, to get IT done. The whole city. IT is about 2,000 miles of water lines and sewer lines under the city. And We started that program some years back, not many years back, but some. Thats going to take like over 20 years to accomplish the whole thing. That means that We are paying for IT as We go currently. So thats not even reflected in this. So the city went and I asked them many years ago when I first got elected to start putting $2 a month on the water line and sewer line so We can say what capital money so We can start paying without bonding anything. And We didnt do that. Now I think its up to $8 a month and rightly so. So We can continue doing. However, due to inflation and due to other cause, We forecast or I forecast or everybody should forecast that at the end, youre not going to bond if you dont want to. But you can bond or you can raise the fees to pay for IT as you go. That saves a lot of money, but when you bond, what is the -- 4.4%, In the ballpark.
Dennis Rogero
9:48:00AM Typically 4.5.
Charlie Miranda
9:48:03AM People that got a lot of hair, not me, so I know they are right. These are the things that I see that everybody is afraid to bond. Im not afraid to bond because the interest rate is stable for that period of time in history. So if IT is for 30 years, its a 30-year bond at 4.4. Doesnt go to 4.8, 49 Or 5. The inflation rate, no, youre there. These are the things that are never talked about but willing to discuss the fees and debate with anybody that tells me that bonding is The Wrong Way. IT is The Best Way, yes, you pay, but you get what you need at the time you need IT not when you dont need IT because then you dont have anything to do. Its incumbent to say understand that for every need, there is a necessity. For instance, some of US criticize the Hanna Project. I dont.
Alan Clendenin
9:48:52AM Councilman Miranda, can we save this for item number 3?
Charlie Miranda
9:48:55AM Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. No wonder you and I are bald.
Alan Clendenin
9:48:59AM I was wondering if you were referring to Me. I still have some hair.
Charlie Miranda
9:49:06AM Ill leave IT for now.
Alan Clendenin
9:49:07AM Councilman Carlson.
Bill Carlson
9:49:08AM One last question. The role of The City in this is that if -- I mentioned the Jacksonville example. So at some point, if there is a deficit, The City has to step in and pay. What is the trigger? What is The City's policy when we step in? Is IT measured by the liabilities to revenues ratio, the funded ratio, or can we go to slide 21? Slide 21 just shows the market. IT doesnt show -- in a year like 2022, presumably we would have had the top up, but then made IT up the next year. Maybe used debt to go temporarily. What is the measure that The City uses to say, okay, now we need to top up and figure out how much IT is. Second follow-up question, are we far away from that point or is IT possible -- what would have to happen in the next year or two for US to hit that point?
Dennis Rogero
9:50:09AM Ill start with what The City does. The City contributes every year whatever the actuarial calculation is. And one of the reasons you do an actuarial calculation is so you dont have to respond every single year to that blue line. IT smooths IT out over decades and decades. Again, we had this conversation, Councilwoman, theoretically, The City will be around forever. Debt ends. Pension liability, theoretically never going to end. The City is always going to be around. Every year you get an actuarial calculation of what the requirement -- in fact, let me go back real quick. Can you see that? The City contribution there, for example, for the Fire And Police Pension Fund, $36.4 Million. Thats what the actuarial calculation is to fund all of the liabilities in that particular year, and thats what we contribute. And have. So its all based on the actuarial calculation which theoretically -- and I think my opinion this is generally true, they are taking any number of variables over years and years and years, in an effort at smoothing that volatility.
Bill Carlson
9:51:21AM Is IT possible when You do that chart from 2005, can You add this to IT as well?
Dennis Rogero
9:51:28AM The contribution percentage.
Bill Carlson
9:51:30AM The contribution and the percentage.
Dennis Rogero
9:51:31AM Yes, Sir.
Bill Carlson
9:51:32AM IT would be interesting to see that. Who does the actuarial table? Is that the -- is that an outside third party? IT is not the Asset Managers.
Dennis Rogero
9:51:44AM No, sir.
Alan Clendenin
9:51:46AM Mr. CFO, at an 8th grade level, can you explain why we only funded 80%?
Dennis Rogero
9:51:52AM I will do my best. In fact, maybe ill use an example. Im saving for my daughters college education. Im making projections as to what that cost will be over time. Im contributing. And if everything turns out exactly as I projected, im right on point, but thats not going to happen. Very rare if everything, if your contributions and what happens turns out exactly like what the Actuary has calculated because youre going to have price increases. Thats what I was looking for. Price increases, right? Youre going to try to plan for those but You dont know what they are going to be. You are going to do better on your investments than You thought or, as we saw, youre going to do worse on your investments. IT is the best projection You can make given the knowledge You have at the time. And rarely, as I shared with You, rarely do You get to that 100% level. Youve also got, and, again, the city is very fortunate, but You also have political decisions like pension holidays where the Political Body decides there is something of a higher priority than contributing to the pension fund, and theyll take that year off. Theyll take two years off, et cetera. So theres really good planning, but life happens. I hope that was somewhat clear.
Alan Clendenin
9:53:20AM Clear, but I still dont quite understand that. Is 80% the industry standard? Is that what you fund --
Dennis Rogero
9:53:29AM Solid average. Solid average.
Alan Clendenin
9:53:31AM So average. Would IT be more ideal to be funding these things at a higher level but we make political decisions to fund other things instead of the pensions?
Dennis Rogero
9:53:39AM We make a couple of decisions. Again, as all part of that smoothing. Over time, for instance, You saw on that chart, there was an assumed rate of return. So we look forward and we say were going to get -- making this up now, for example -- get 8%. You saw the Fire And Police Pension Fund is 8.5%. They are one of, if not the highest assumed rate of return in the state because of their fantastic performance. So You start out thinking youre going to make this much money because You are at 7.5%, But IT doesnt turn Out That Way. The actuarial reports come in, and this is what the Ge Pension Fund has done. You lower that assumed rate of return. So You start walking up hill, making IT harder on yourself and how that manifests itself, is You contribute more in an effort of building up that funded ratio. And then, as You saw, and as I was saying earlier with the hundred dollar example, You amortize in a lesser period of time. You discount what youll have to do so You have to increase the contribution.
Alan Clendenin
9:54:49AM For Police And Fire being independent, if their fund, for lack, collapses or significantly under funds, were still on the hook to subsidize or bring that back up?
Dennis Rogero
9:55:03AM Yes. Again, cant emphasize enough, thats where the Actuary comes in in terms of smoothing that out. Ideally you dont get hit with just a drastic, unbelievable increase from year to year. Its that smoothing thats very, very important.
Alan Clendenin
9:55:17AM Interesting, the minneapolis example, being the highest bonded, are they funded at 80% as well? Is that pretty much a standard across most of the city?
Dennis Rogero
9:55:26AM I do not know what minneapolis is. Again, im only going from memory. I think jacksonville was 50. But you have other localities out there, much, much stronger than that.
Alan Clendenin
9:55:37AM Anybody else have questions on this part of the presentation? Councilman Viera.
Luis Viera
9:55:41AM I did want to say something, because I was reminded when We Confirmed Dr. Chief Bercaw as chief of police, something came up on the pension and First Responders. I always like to talk about this because its very important for folks to know that a lot of people look at the pension system, especially for our First Responders and go, oh, IT is this lavish, 1970 -- By The Way, im not saying anybody up here because IT is political season. Not just boasting to The Public, some lavish teamster, 1970 pension, By The Way, still wish we had the lavish teamster 1970 pegs. People deserve those, so im not putting those down. Truth, as we know, cops and firefighters contribute about 20% of their pay, gross pay to the pension. Roughly one in five dollars. Before health insurance, before taxes, before everything else. They often retire at 45, 50, 55, but they live 10 to 12 years less than the average person, cops and firefighters do. I always like to talk about that. Again, there is this idea in The Public, that, oh, if you are a cop or firefighter, youll retire at 50 and everything will be set. No, youll get your butt kicked for 25 years and then live 10 to 12 years less than the average person. And one out of your five gross pay dollars goes to your pension. That is a pension they work like hell for. Weve had misconceptions about that in The Public. Like to point that out for folks because I think thats important to know.
Alan Clendenin
9:57:12AM As retired air traffic controller with similar situation, almost identical to what you described, I would reconfirm that is a fact with Police and fire and air trafficker controllers. Damn the lawyers. That concludes item number 1. Our clerk made me aware we did not make a motion to approve the agenda. We have a motion from Councilman Maniscalco. Second from Councilman Viera. All those in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have IT. Thank you. Public comment, anybody in the public who wishes to speak to item number 1? Stephanie, did you want to speak? Nick Stocco, president of the Tampa Firefighters Union. I will be 40 in five years, so not 20. Im only 35. Im here to speak on item number 1 on the pension health. First, I want to thank this Council and the City Of Tampa as the employer of the Firefighters that helped originate and form this. To councils point, there was an individual by the name of Samson Artie who served as union president for 13 years who passed away in 2021 who served a key role on getting this pension started as well as lobbying for IT at the State level. Better say advocating at the State level. He served as district vice president and also the first secretary-treasurer of the Florida Professional Firefighters who was our State organization I think in 1943 or so is when they were formed. In the '60s, I believe '60s, when founded and lifted off its arms, took a lot of legwork to get that going. Some of councils point, we are unique than many of the 175 or municipal plans as youll see as a special act of the Legislature. 2025, did go through some pension reforms, pension changes, and this Council approved IT before IT went to the local delegation at the State. Again, I want to thank the city, the employer, and this Council for being a part of the pension that we are able to have today. To some of the analytics, its important to note that all the different municipalities mentioned on that graph carry different groups within themselves. For example, we are a 175 plan. Police is 185 plan. And those plans are married together under one. The Miami Firefighters, they are on their own 175 plan. St. Pete, I believe they might be on their own. Unsure. Lakeland is another. The 175 plans under statute carry different regulations than State FRS special risk. So we are held to different standards than the State FRS, and we do carry that through the Legislative Body. So the variances and the projections and the professionals that know IT, who will speak on the retirement piece, IT varies. If people are going to retire sooner or retire later or pass away sooner or pass away later, those all have an effect on those numbers and those figures, so another thing to consider is that when the actuaries do these studies, those are all calculations into those professionals. I will say, again, thank you to the city who does employ US and pay US. Firefighters do pay 15.5% Of their hourly wage into the pension. We paid as high as 18% and paid as low as 3% since 2011. I would encourage at the local level look at the State level of the funding requirements that changed in 2011 that lessened the contributions to the 175 plans. Thank you for your time.
10:00:54AM Thank you, Mr. President. Come a day when you are my age, youll appreciate looking 15 years younger. Next speaker. Stephanie Poynor. I have a bunch of questions. Somebody can answer them or not. But they kind of come to my mind. As somebody who participated in the Kentucky Teacher Retirement System, you were able to buy out. If people are buying out of these programs at what percentage? And is there an average point where they buy themselves out and take the cash value? Are people who are receiving pensions also allowed to take their social security from their spouse? In Kentucky, we werent allowed to take our spouses social security and our Kentucky teacher retirement at the same time. We had to give up one or the other. What happens to the pension funds if a spouse passes away? Does IT totally go away? Thats one of the reasons why we took my buyout and husbands buyout from ups, because if something happened to him, then I would lose all of that pension. Does Tampa City Council not have a member on the Pension Boards? Do they not have a nominee? Councilwoman Hurtak mentioned the mayor has somebody on there, but is there not somebody on the boards that reports to City Council and talks to them about whats going on? There are lots of folks here in suits. Im glad to see the president of 754 here, Nick. Glad to see him here. But im curious, where are the other people who sit on these boards? And how are they pushing out? Because all these people in suits are being paid something to be here In One Way, shape, or form, but how do the members of those Pension Boards feel about this? I know in the past, ive been invited to some of these negotiations and whatnot, but they have always ended up on Thursday mornings which makes IT not only hard for me to go, because I like to be here, but makes IT hard for you guys to go. Are you able to attend those meetings? Those are my questions. I dont really have any comments. Thank you.
10:03:06AM Thank you. Next speaker, please. Start with your name. My name is Malik Abdullah. You asked if anyone have questions about just the pension. Is that what the question was about?
10:03:20AM No, this is public comment. So if You have any statement You would like to make.
10:03:26AM That is not on this -- its not applicable to this item. This is only about the pension item that Dennis Rogero.
10:03:38AM Workshops are only about the workshop items for the day. Its not like a normal City Council meeting. Hearing no other public comments, Mr. Rogero, IT seems like 2 and 3 are tied together. Would you like to present together? IT appears as though 2 and 3 are intrinsically tied. Would you like to do one presentation? Can I get a motion from council to hear 2 and 3 together? Motion from Viera, second from Miranda. All in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have IT. Thank you. How many trees?
Bill Carlson
10:04:18AM Can I ask a procedural question?
Alan Clendenin
10:04:20AM Councilman Carlson.
Bill Carlson
10:04:21AM Could we ask that the Clerk or someone load these to Onbase so the public -- any of the documents that are being presented today that are not already in Onbase? Not just in the record but make sure they are on Onbase.
Alan Clendenin
10:04:37AM That would automatically happen once its presented to Council.
The Clerk
10:04:45AM [Inaudible]
Alan Clendenin
10:04:46AM Is that something we have to ask for or automatic?
The Clerk
10:04:48AM [Inaudible]
Alan Clendenin
10:04:49AM Anything presented for receive and file --
Bill Carlson
10:04:53AM Ive heard complaints in the past, its not -- if the documents are in advance, then the public can see them for whatever documents arent in advance, they always want to make sure they are in onbase and sometimes People complain that they are not.
Alan Clendenin
10:05:07AM Got IT. Mr. Rogero, been a long time. Start with your name, please.
Dennis Rogero
10:05:11AM Thank you, mr. Chair. Dennis Rogero, chief financial officer. Good morning again, Council. As always, we really do appreciate your interest and your time associated with this information. I think weve got some very valuable and detailed information for you in this presentation. Youre going to recognize the format, I think, from last year. But we have also added a few new things that we think expand the understanding. If I can have the presentation up, please, thank you very much. The agenda. Pretty detailed agenda. This is new this year. Were going to start off with an overview of contract administration by Director Mutterback. Again, because so much of what contract administration does is tied, not only to the capital improvement program, but also to debt financing, we thought this would add some very, very valuable context. Municipal debt update from Ford And Associates. Ill introduce everybody when they come up here. And a city financing overview with many, many different players. Im one of them. Well do the ratings and comparisons, get a little more detail based on what we talked about the pension presentation. Total city financing. Discuss the CIT renewal, separate motion and now consolidated. Talk about the non-ad valorem financing and what that entails. A note and some information about how important we feel reimbursement resolutions are, and then well start Down The Road of the stormwater, water, and wastewater, Solid Waste financing, excuse me, and then wrap IT up with the overall question of just how much capacity does the city have for financing and then happy to take questions and discussion. And the presenters are, of course, me, Director Mutterback, you already know. Molly Clark, what we called Public Resources Advisory Group, Prag. Jon Ford, Will Reed from Ford Associates and Bond Counsel, Steve Miller. They are all here. Adjectives escape me. What a fantastic team and much of the success that I think the city has enjoyed is due to that team. He will not be presenting but ill call him out anyway. Deputy chief financial officer Mike Perry. Absolutely outstanding finance professional. I dont know how wed do IT without him. And these are the particular motions. Little annual presentation on the bonding capacity, and then were going to merge that. Again, they are interrelated. The discussion of the CIT renewal because the emphasis there is how can we use the CIT renewal to mitigate the amount of debt financing. Up next, Director Mutterback.
Richard Mutterback
10:08:29AM Thank you, sir. Richard Mutterback, director of Contract Administration. Good morning, Council.
Alan Clendenin
10:08:35AM Good morning.
Richard Mutterback
10:08:36AM Been a while since ive been to the podium. I just realized I hadnt been here since Councilwoman Young has taken the chair. Its a good thing. IT means everything is going good.
Alan Clendenin
10:08:48AM Hes one of the blessed ones that God gave a pretty face, gave US more of.
Richard Mutterback
10:08:53AM So, yeah, as Mr. Rogero alluded to, since ive been here over the last couple of years, worked really closely with Mr. Perry and the Budget Office. There is a lot of coordination that goes on in our capital improvement project planning, and then -- now as also in our debt financing program. I put together a few slides to kind of go over, were talking about the time here, the timelines that goes into this planning. Kind of as an overview, few disclaimers, these are some typical timelines, and when I say typical, its what personally ive seen over the past 22 years in the industry, and when we go back and look at city projects, when we look at our Hillsborough County projects that kind of thing, these are pretty typical times that can be expected. But there are a lot of disclaimers here. Every project is different. If there is federal funding or permitting involved, thats drastically going to affect this timeline. And then -- and also just to point out, when I talk about this, im talking about design-build projects that are, you know, vertical in nature, facilities, buildings, that kind of thing. IT gets a little different when were talking about paving and pipeline, that kind of thing or horizontal projects. Also, as you can see here, ill go over each one of the subcategories in a little bit. Pretty much from the time a department comes to US and says They have a project, you know, They have a need, and They needed a project, its pretty much three- to four-year process before that project is done. And even more so, its about two years at best before we even put a shovel in the ground and actually start that project. Also, another thing here, that planning section --
Alan Clendenin
10:11:10AM Can you hold on one second? Are you resolving that issue? We cant hear when that is happening back there. Person thats -- let me know when youve got IT resolved because im going to pause the conversation. Were going to assume the situation is resolved. Thank you very much.
Richard Mutterback
10:11:39AM Okay. Ill start with this first subcategory of planning. Now, this one is very difficult to estimate because planning could mean a number of things. But before We even -- again, when somebody comes to US and they have a need and We try to work with them to see The Best Way to proceed with that project, We want to start with planning. And depending on what that is, the bottom three bullet points there, cost estimate, budget Confirmation and the preparation of design criteria package, those are a must. We have to have Those In Place. The other things May or May not need land. We May already have land. And then a variety of assessments that could be done or could be required based on the nature of that particular project. Like I say, and I kind of use an analogy in the planning phase as getting ready to go to the grocery store. If you sit down and plan out your meals for the week and write IT out and then put your list, youre going to spend a lot less money and time in that grocery store than you are if you just go and try to decide On The Way. So the more time and effort that We can put into this planning phase before We even advertise a project, IT gives US, a, IT give US a better idea of the cost We can expect with the project and better idea of the timeline. The next phase, the CCNA selection process. CCNA is the consultants competitive negotiation act. We are mandate of that by statute 287.55 In how We procure these design-build firms, projects to go through. And that process itself takes at best six months to get through. We advertise. Has to be advertised at least 30 days. Then We -- during that 30 days, We have a presubmittal conference where people come in and ask questions. And then the CCNA committee, which made up of seven members of the city, We get together and approve a short list based off of scoring. And then they come and present. Mayor selects the firm based on recommendations and then We start our scope and fee negotiation. And then at the end of this process, that is the first Council action that comes out of this. So at the end of this, once We went through this entire process, well bring an initial service agreement to Council which kind of outlines the cost and timeline for the design portion. And that timeline, that orange on that screen, that starts when We advertise the project, and IT ends when We issue a notice to proceed for the design. Now well get into the next section. Design and permitting portion. Typical is 12 to 18 months. Again, depending on project specific. This portion, again, IT involves a lot -- there is a lot there. So as We go through the design process and working with the firms doing this, once We get to about 60% through, then We can start the actual permitting and, again, project specific. That permitting could take -- could affect that timeline greatly. And then at the end of this design process, that, again, is when Council will see a guaranteed maximum price come before you that tells US how much exactly the construction portion, thats what the GMP is associated with the construction portion. Again, this timeline goes from the design notice to proceed through the construction notice to proceed. And thats what -- once We get into the construction phase, this is what everybody sees. I personally get phone calls at least once a week from people saying youve been working on this project for two years and nothing has happened. Those first three subcategories are all the nothing happen. But this is the portion, the ground breaking is what everybody sees. Building through ribbon cutting and closing-out. Again, The Way this correlates with Mr. Perry and his group, that helps -- well, first of all, that helps our City departments plan out their five-year cips. And then IT helps with the debt program. Lets just say IT is a $20 million project, dont need $20 million now. You need 15 or 20 percent up front. Once you get into construction a couple of years down the line.
Alan Clendenin
10:16:33AM Pause for questions. Councilwoman Hurtak.
Lynn Hurtak
10:16:38AM So I want to say thank you. This is an incredibly clear and easy To Read Way to see how this process works. Ill pull these slides out and hold on to them because I think they are valuable.
Richard Mutterback
10:16:51AM I have a one-pager. All on one page.
Lynn Hurtak
10:16:54AM If you could send that to US, I think thats very helpful because this is what We constantly keep asking about is in the planning stage, were given a cost estimate, and then two years later, give or take, were given the guaranteed maximum price. The initial services agreement is part of this, but thats not really where price comes in, correct?
Richard Mutterback
10:17:23AM Correct. The initial services agreement is covering the design and permitting portion, which is usually about 10 to 15 percent of what the anticipated construction cost would be.
Lynn Hurtak
10:17:32AM So I think what -- at least I am interested in having maybe some more discussions doesnt necessarily have to be here, but reaching out to US to talk to US about this going forward. So the initial services agreement might be a good time to come to Council and say, hey, you know, We are anticipating IT to be this amount of money, even though -- its sort of like the halfway point to keep US updated. Because right now, my office is putting them on calendars and reaching out to you anyway. And IT would be great instead of having to put IT on our calendar and reach out, if thats just a part of the process so that We stay engaged, so We arent shocked when the guaranteed maximum price comes. I think thats one of those things that keeping Council informed Along The Way prevents that sticker shock and the worry as We talk more about the CIP. Going forward. Just -- I dont know -- a suggestion.
Alan Clendenin
10:18:39AM Councilman Carlson followed by Councilman Miranda.
Bill Carlson
10:18:43AM Thank you for presenting. How long been here?
Richard Mutterback
10:18:49AM Three years --
Bill Carlson
10:18:51AM Big fan. I think youve done a great job since youve been here. I used to complain about this department all the time. Im glad that you are here and kind of cleaning things up. The Public's big interest is whether were getting the right price. They see these big price tags on projects and they wonder, are we getting the right price? And then IT comes out that we didnt have an open bidding process. Part of IT is the difference between RFQ versus RFP. Im not a big fan of all the CCNA process because IT kind of gives US a way to get around. We at City Council put new rules on working with you. The Mayor also with your guidance passed a new executive order. Still, there are times like in The Hanna Avenue project where this is before your time. Hanna Avenue, original project like $650,000. That was an RFQ, not an RFP. Even though you might negotiate the hourly rates, the question is how much is IT going to cost? That might have been okay for the original project, but then ended up being 126 million without an additional RFP. The CCNA has a rule, at least the last time I looked, you cant go over 4 million without getting approval or going out to bid again. City Attorney at the time found a loophole around that. But when you came on board, we and The Mayor worked together to put a rule in that its in the executive order if IT goes more than 50% over the original estimate that IT has to go out for bid. So my question is, again, The Public is very concerned about paying too much for these projects. They asked the question, why is the city not value engineering like the Private Sector does or people do on their homes? Can you just briefly describe the safeguards you Put In Place over the last three years? Are there any other things you can recommend that we might Put In Place to assure The Public that were getting the best prices?
Richard Mutterback
10:20:48AM The executive order you are referencing November of 2023. Several things in there that highlights some Cardinal changes that will require US to step back and go with -- stop these projects and start basically either start over or readvertise or some other competitive nature like that. Some of those things are, like you mentioned, you alluded to, if IT more than doubles in price, hundred percent, more than Doubles In Place from what was advertised. RFQ advertisement, we say this could be five to eight million. Well, if IT gets over 16 million or above, then that would trigger that. If a project doesnt start for three years, lays dormant for three years and nothing happens, then, again, we have to readvertise. Just so you know, there are a lot of, even going through the CCNA process, specifically with the design-build projects -- and just so you know, I think as of this morning, of the 347 active design and construction contracts that we have, only about 20% of those are design-build. But, obviously, IT is the big, high-profile complex projects that we talk about all the time in that design-build. No, were working very closely with Budget and with the departments. Each department has their own set of project managers that we work really closely with now as a department. Actually, our City Architect that works under me, he has weekly standing meetings with the Budget Office, and they look at just a variety of topics there. As of late, its FEMA funding and that kind of thing. But, no, were working, like I say, closely with the other departments. Just almost more of an education, helping them, Owners Advisor kind of role with the other departments.
Bill Carlson
10:22:54AM My criticism of some of the projects like that, Fair Oaks and others, is that there seems to be an open paycheck. Spend whatever you want. Open sector, people have a budget and have to work toward IT. Not an open-ended amount of money for everything. Sometimes IT feels like, we get in -- Indonesia, used to be an island, I mean, a lake, and you would pay a guide to take you out on the boat. When you are out in the middle of the boat, he would say, now you have to pay me double to get back. Thats how I feel about some of the bids. Just one last thing, on the design -- im not a fan of design-build, in the case Of Hanna Avenue, 126 million or whatever IT was, if we had done the design, and then we put IT out for bid, if we save 10%, we could have tripled or Quadrupled The Road repair budget that year. The same thing with Fair Oaks. We can talk about this more off line. If you have suggestions on how we can provide even more assurance to the public about how were getting the best deal that would help US, because I get a lot of complaints about IT. Thank you.
Alan Clendenin
10:24:03AM Councilman Miranda, followed by Viera.
Charlie Miranda
10:24:05AM Thank You very much for your fine presentation and doing the costs and evaluations of everything. You are looking at a project that takes either three and a half to four and a half years from start to finish. Thats what IT looks like to me when I see colored numbers, 16 months, 18 months, or whatever. What happens is this, You bid something out. Not your fault, my fault or anybodys fault here. All of a sudden I remember when a two by four was less than two dollars. Guess what happened, went up to 10 dollars. That was real nice for somebody but wasnt nice for US. Now they are down to -- how do You solve the problem of what youre talking about in costs? You have to have a big warehouse and buy all the material all at once and store IT in there and SHIP IT out like You were a subcontractor to Yourself or You have to SHIP out to The Site Way before You start working on IT, and cover IT up somehow so IT doesnt deteriorate. And all those have risks and rewards. So its up to individuals like Yourself to make some decisions, I would guess, if You really wanted to do something like that, which is dangerous. Im not going to tell You its not. You can have a lot of things happen to IT. Fire, theft, anything could happen to IT. But if You do that, You might be able to save some money and the costs of the product. During that period of time, during the four and a half years. But is IT viable? I dont know. You are an expert on that. Im not. But im just looking at this. How do You solve a problem that has a long wait of three years before really You start construction? So those problems are difficult to do, and the cost of a gallon of milk dont stay stable. Eggs dont stay stable. Plywood doesnt stay stable. Automobile doesnt stay stable because we live in a fluid society. The tariffs are really what? I dont know if they are helping You or costing You more, but im not going to make a political decision from Washington. So what im looking at here is You are damned if You dont and really damned if You do. Thank You for what You do.
Alan Clendenin
10:26:21AM Councilman Viera.
Luis Viera
10:26:21AM Thank You very much. What I wanted to say for Mr. Mutterback and I told You this privately and some other folks said this great job youve done since youve gotten in. The fact we havent seen You here lately speaks to the good work youre doing. When we met during Fire Station 24, You were like, I inherited this. Youd go up and take questions, and youre like, I just got here. You handled IT cool, calm, collected. You have a very good temperament and You are doing a good job. On top of the other things, I just wanted to salute You for that, that You are doing a good job. We had the unfortunate pleasure of meeting during station 24, but You have done a great job. Thank You, sir.
Alan Clendenin
10:27:10AM Many people are saying three years ago some of the best people in the city showed up at the City Of Tampa. I think we showed up about the same time. May have missed that. This presentation is one of those things that has been sticking to my craw because as Councilman Carlson said, some of the past programs, and its been difficult for me to quite understand when these Council decisions and when these projects are committed, whats going to be pay-go, what will be bonded, when the critical decision points are made. We have a project right now pending for Police that is in this process and kind of the same kind of thing. What im hearing you say is that at the CCNA selection or finalizing that process, the Council has an opportunity to -- what does that look like for Council? What is Council approving at that point?
Richard Mutterback
10:28:05AM The initial services agreement. Once we go through the process, entire process and a Firm is selected, that Firm we then go into negotiations. The Department will go into negotiations on what their fee will be. The fee and scope negotiations. So when we select a Firm, we rank the firms one, two, three, four. Because if those negotiations break down, by statute, if they cant come to fair and reasonable price, we go to the second and then the third. Trickle down to second and third.
Alan Clendenin
10:28:44AM Lets back IT up. Prior to that you get land acquisition before IT comes to Council. I guess this is part of where the disconnect is. Once a project is on the CIP, there are assumptions, at least portions of the project are going to move forward without councils explicit approval. Before the CCNA process, there are costs, including land acquisition that happens before that. Is that just because once a project is on the CIP there is an implied consent from Council to process these things? And how was that decided to be paid for? The answer is that once Council approves the five-year CIP., Then there is an assumption were going to move forward with those projects.
10:29:44AM We have to be more diligent about what makes IT on the CIP. My naive self first showing up on Council was that was an aspiration, the CIP. Was an aspirational plan, not a decision point of approval for expenditures of funds and also implied bonding. So I think thats probably what everybody has to realize. Once something shows on the CIP., The implications are that were spending money, implied bonding. Councilwoman Hurtak, you wanted to respond?
Lynn Hurtak
10:30:14AM Thats why I wanted to talk about IT during the budget process. Thats why ive been hammering that a couple of years now.
Alan Clendenin
10:30:20AM This is one of the things, as an Air Traffic Controller and Council, one of those surprise moments. Plan, capital improvement plan, not necessarily a commitment for expenditures. Thats one of the things we have to understand. If something is lingering out there on the CIP. At any moment money could be spent on IT. Is that a correct statement?
Michael Perry
10:30:42AM When you adopt the CIP., IT is a five-year plan. Year one is in the adopted budget. Year two, three, four, and five are aspirational because these projects take a long time. Weve got to make sure we finance IT. Now, when we approve the CIP. And we have a project, project x, x, y and z, we identify the revenue sources for those projects. Our number one priority is to use pay-go. The number two is to see if we can get any grants. The third alternative is to use debt financing. For each year, obviously for the year one, that is adopted within the budget, capital CIP. Expenditures must equal all the available revenue. That holds true for year two of the CIP., Year three of the CIP., Year four of the CIP. And year five of the CIP. So that its balanced throughout the whole five-year program of the CIP. And that includes the four years aspirational.
Alan Clendenin
10:31:49AM All those that are accommodated in each fiscal year, we end up with the reimbursable resolutions to roll into larger debt issuances?
Michael Perry
10:31:59AM Again, Mr. Miller will be talking about the reimbursement resolution, if you can hold that question for Steve. I think that will be better off. But the reimbursement resolution is a tool to allow US to start earlier, ahead of issuing the debt, and then we will save on interest costs.
Alan Clendenin
10:32:20AM Those costs that we allocated in the fiscal year could possibly get rolled into the debt.
Michael Perry
10:32:26AM Only if you approve the project and IT has a debt component in IT. IT will actually say youre going to Resurface Perry Drive. Your funding sources are local option gas taxes, CIT renewal, and debt. Actually list within the CIP. And on the CIP. Pages what the revenue sources we are using to fund that project.
Alan Clendenin
10:32:57AM On the CIP., IT is theoretical. We dont know what looking at, could be a dollar, ten million dollars, we dont know that until the end of the gross maximum price. Its kind of odd how Council can make a fiscally prudent decision about a project that five years from now could be an astronomical price tag; ie., Some of the things Councilman Carlson hit on a few times. Im trying to intellectually kind of draw how do we make those fiscal decisions without all the facts, including at least a rough estimate of what the gross maximum price is going to be?
Michael Perry
10:33:37AM Richard mentioned IT earlier. Thats where we have to stick with Contract Admin and the Departments to try to arrive at a projected expenditure cost going All The Way out. IT very well May be we have to do building a, but we are not going to start designing that until year four of the CIP. So you wont see unless we put IT in the project description what the construction cost is. So there is, again, if you do the CIP. Right, you should be planning out four, five, six years ahead.
Alan Clendenin
10:34:14AM There is an inherent risk of losing whatever weve invested in, if We get to these critical decision points. The south howard flood relief project that were looking at. If all of the financing doesnt work out and fails, weve lost everything that weve invested in thus far. Theres No Way to shorten that from design concept to final gross maximum price.
Michael Perry
10:34:39AM No. Because IT takes whatever IT takes to design. On these projects, You want to spend the time so that You not only got to do design, youve got to do permitting. Youve got to do environmental services. You want to make sure that if youre going to build a building, You have enough support within the ground to do that. There are a lot of things that Contract Admin is working on during the design and permitting phase.
Alan Clendenin
10:35:05AM What I hear -- sorry, go ahead.
Richard Mutterback
10:35:07AM That first bite of the apple is the initial services agreement that comes through at the end of the CCNA selection. Thats just the first. Like I said earlier, that typically, you can look at that, and thats typically around 10 to 15 percent of the overall construction cost. If we bring a million-dollar initial services agreement to you, its probably going to come around 10 to 15 million-dollar. Thats just kind of a rule of thumb that you can kind of look at. Also, when we first advertise that process, if weve done our grocery Planning The Way we should have, we already have a good idea of what that cost should be.
Alan Clendenin
10:35:46AM When we come at the CCNA time frame, do you disclose how much has been invested at that point? Like the Howard Evidence Lab. I know weve invested money into that process for land acquisition, design and all that. Is that price point how much were on the hook for when we get to that CCNA timetable or process?
Michael Perry
10:36:18AM Are you talking about the CCNA is the initial --
Alan Clendenin
10:36:22AM Money spent before that point. Is that disclosed in that process? How much were on the hook for at that point?
Michael Perry
10:36:28AM I think generally the expenses are operating salaries associated with contracting admin and preparing the documents.
Richard Mutterback
10:36:36AM If there is land acquisition and typically when we bring a resolution, whereas clause at the beginning of any other resolutions thats come before that or actions like that.
Michael Perry
10:36:47AM Again, if I May remind You, land acquisition is a contract. Council has to approved all the contracts. Just like You did for the purchase of the Fleet Fire Supply And Logistics Center, we brought forth to You a contract six months ago for the acquisition of the property. I think IT was between four and a half to five million dollars.
Alan Clendenin
10:37:09AM I think part of this, like I say, ive been here three years. A lot of things happened before, so dont have the continuity of process. Councilwoman Hurtak followed by Councilman Carlson.
Lynn Hurtak
10:37:19AM I also want to say that generally the budget for -- if were going to talk about a specific project, the howard annex project, that budget is in the CIP. So you know what is being spent for the coming year because its there, whether IT be acquisition, whether IT be planning, in theory, we know how much weve spent because its in that. For each individual project, if its in the second year, IT will show what we spent the first year. If you go to the individual project page. Am I correct?
Michael Perry
10:37:59AM IT will show what has been spent project to date, as of the snapshot date that we took the picture for the CIP.
Lynn Hurtak
10:38:05AM Of course. But You can still go onto the website. Thats updated relatively regularly, is IT not?
Michael Perry
10:38:12AM No. On the CIP. Detailed sheet in the online budget book, that is a one-time snapshot.
Lynn Hurtak
10:38:19AM We can simply request that, because I know ive worked with Ms. Kopesky to get those updated. So that is something available to US.
Michael Perry
10:38:27AM But we provide that to you, to Council in the monthly CIP. Report.
Lynn Hurtak
10:38:32AM Yes, yes. Thats what I meant.
Michael Perry
10:38:34AM Im sorry. I thought you were talking about the Online Budget Book.
Lynn Hurtak
10:38:37AM No, no, no. I was talking about if I were to go to the CIP. Page, those are updated by month. So if I went to an Individual Project, I could see where IT is because we do get that update.
Michael Perry
10:38:49AM Again, I want to clarify. Were not going to the budget book. Were going to the CIP. Report. You can go to the individual project and see the financial status as of the month before.
Lynn Hurtak
10:39:01AM Im sorry. Thats what I meant. Those monthly reports that come to US are incredibly valuable. I love looking through those.
Alan Clendenin
10:39:07AM Councilman Carlson.
Bill Carlson
10:39:09AM To Chair Clendenin's comments, the challenge with the CIP., We talked about this before, but ill be short, the problem is that when IT is presented to US in the CIP., Were always told, oh, you have several other bites at the apple. You hear those comments are still being used. If we actually have bites of the apple then we need to have the guts to turn things down later in the process and we should. The other thing is that we need -- and these are just comments, not questions, sorry. We need thorough alternative analyses. On Hanna Avenue, should have been -- before Mr. Mutterback's time -- should have been a thorough analysis presented to the public on how much rent would have been. We had 30-year-old leases undervalued and people were spread out. What if we leased one building or what if we did a design-build with the developer? Airport did that and they ended up buying their building back and made a lot of money because Of The Way they had the deal set up. Because the market went up, had an option to buy IT and so they had money. The other thing would be to have been to buy an existing building. During 2019, the building Across The Street, Tampa city center sold for less than we ended up Paying Hanna Avenue. Could have kept employees in downtown, rented out extra space and made money on IT. I think we have to do a thorough alternatives analysis. Same thing with toilet to tap. Toilet to tap has been killed four times in the last ten years. The second time Council, when I was on Council, we said theres not a thorough -- analysis, I proposed four options and when alternatives analysis came back, IT was only the four options I had proposed. And the models were done to be biased toward a certain outcome, and we went through all of that and litigated that in the second, third, and fourth times that we killed IT. But those are alternative analyses werent done fairly. In the end, after we killed IT four times, instead of the two to six billion that we came up with the alternatives analysis, its 50 million for the solution. Its crazy that we didnt go through a thorough -- we spent a lot of engineering time and others pushing one idea and should have done a thorough alternatives analysis. Same thing With Hanna Avenue. The other thing is we have this open wallet in this Administration. And staff have told me about this. If the Mayor says just get IT done, how many people -- imagine you are building a house, and you say ive got 500,000 and the builder comes back and said, oh, sorry, I charged you 2 million. You would sue them, right? Because you wouldnt let Them Go Way over budget. Why is IT government can do that? Why is IT the city can do that? Its not just prices going up. Private sector, prices go up, you have to value engineer. You have to figure out how other constraints to change the project so IT doesnt cost so much. In the private sector with businesses, especially Public Companies, would you never have an open check where you say, oh, were spending 650,000, but now were spending 126 million and force a Public Board to do that, the stock would drop like crazy if we did that. So we need to -- and the same thing with South Howard, just escalating like crazy. I know you all are trying to stay within that additional percentage, but we need to figure out how to control costs. The other thing is transparency and accuracy of the numbers were getting. We were told a couple of weeks ago getting grants from the state, Federal Government, on the South Howard project and then an Attorney sent US a letter saying the state and Federal Government had turned US down on the grants. So I dont know what the truth is, but how can we approve a project if we dont know where the money is coming from? On South Howard, told a year or so ago that THEA was giving $11 million. Contacted THEA and hadnt gone to their board yet. IT wasnt approved. The public and City Council deserves to have accurate and transparent information. Thats coming from multiple departments and your clients, not from your department. The other thing, and this is really important, City Council has to have the guts to terminate a project at GMP. And this hopefully is going to happen with the South Howard project because its all wrong. Its all designed wrong. We need to go back and redesign the project. We need flood relief in that area, but not this overpriced project. Its being done with an open checkbook. What we have to do is look at the 7 million or whatever is spent and say, okay, thats on cost. We experiment with IT, but no thorough alternatives analysis done. Been through all the details. There was no alternative analysis done. There was no bedding on the different alternatives. So were going to end up getting stuck with probably $150 million project thats not even going to work when IT is done. Thats indicative of a lot of projects going through the Administration. Not the fault of staff, the mayors office saying, okay, spend whatever you want. Go ahead, we want to check the box and say we did something. City Council has an obligation to the public to spend money wisely and to have an effective projects, not just projects where we can check a box.
Alan Clendenin
10:44:16AM Thank you, Councilman Carlson. Hearing no other questions in that segment of the presentation, lets talk about Municipal Debt Markets. My skin is filled with goose bumps in anticipation of this rivetting conversation. [ laughter hes trying to be funny. I am the only one that can be funny.
Dennis Rogero
10:44:47AM Dennis Rogero, chief financial officer. Sole purpose here is to introduce this esteemed gentleman, Jon Ford, from Ford And Associates to walk you through the presentation.
Alan Clendenin
10:44:59AM Hold on one second. For The Public to understand, these are just segments of the same presentation. Once the entire presentation is finished, The Public will have an opportunity to speak about this presentation. Sorry. Start again.
Jon Ford
10:45:13AM My name is Jon Ford. I represent Ford Associates. We are one of the citys municipal advisors. Im here to talk a little bit about the financial markets. Ill start broadly and narrow down into the market for municipal bonds, which is a small corner of the financial universe. Looking back last year, something that I think we have a little more interest in, the stock market. SP 500 represents about 80% of the market capitalization of US. Stocks. That is a really, really good benchmark for what the equity markets did last year. At the beginning of 2025, well talk a little bit about projections for all these things, Wall Street expected, just a collection of analysts, big firms, Wall Street projected that the stock market was going to end the year between 6400 and a little under 6700. The market beat that estimate, which is great. Closed closer to 6900. 6846. That was great. About a 14.5% Improvement. If you have stocks in your portfolio, you appreciated that. Its wonderful. Looking forward for this year, Wall Street is estimating well end up again. Climb to another 7100 to 8100 points. Thats great. More good returns. We like that. Same thing happened for profitability, SP eps, means earnings per share. Stock market not only larger but more profitable. All good things. Thats why IT has the green light on IT. Gdp is an important one. Gdp is gross domestic product. Measurement of all values of goods and is ever is in an economy during a period of time. We expected real gdp growth of between 1.9 And 2.1 Percent. As of -- IT says q 3, but I thought we had a q 4 number in here. IT was 2.3% Year over year. The economy grew a little bit more in 2025 Than Wall Street estimated. That is a really, really good thing. For 2026, Wall Street is estimating a little bit higher growth. 25 To 2.8 Percent. So all good things. Let me pause there. Any questions so far just with the numbers that weve seen?
Alan Clendenin
10:47:24AM Councilwoman Hurtak.
Lynn Hurtak
10:47:25AM I understand that thats -- thats what were seeing. I think the big confusion is thats literally not what people are seeing on the ground.
Jon Ford
10:47:35AM Agreed.
Lynn Hurtak
10:47:36AM And thats the fear.
Jon Ford
10:47:38AM Yes. The majority of that growth in gdp is strangely equivalent to the amount of capital expenditures that have been spent on things like data centers, Nvidia, Microsoft. Yeah, kind of two different economies right now. A lot of discussion, k shaped economy.
Lynn Hurtak
10:47:56AM Exactly. That is the fear that im hearing from the public and im seeing in all of -- its just the feel that were having. This is fascinating projection.
Jon Ford
10:48:08AM Agreed. We are a little removed in our Day-To-Day lives from the stock market. Inflation, which I think that were all much more aware of now maybe than we were five years ago. Inflation estimated for 2025 at 2.4%. IT did come out a little higher than that, as of November, December, up 2.7 Percent year over year. Little more of a price increase Than Wall Street was expecting. Projections this year, lower between 2 and 2.4 Percent. Federal Reserve which well talk a little more, U.s. Central Bank has a mandate to try to maintain reasonable price stability. They defined as an inflation rate of about 2%. Were trying to get back down to the target rate of 2%. Unemployment, the 2025 projections From Wall Street, little over 4 -- 4.2, 43 Percent. We were higher than that. As of November, we were at 4.6%. The other aspect of the feds mandate is to maintain solid labor markets, maximize employment. Were working on bringing that down as well. Projections for this year are that were going to maintain a little bit higher than May be desirable, 4.4, 45%. So those are the projections versus the realities in this years projections. Well talk about interest rates a little bit. This chart shows a roughly five-year look back, four and a half year look-back of the federal funds rate. Overnight rate established by the Federal Reserve. Ten-year Treasury rate and average 30-year mortgage rate. Three very different things. Affect all In Different Way. Fed fund rate is how monetary policy is by and large established in the united states. Overnight rate. Covid, rates were on the floor. We had the lowest rates in recorded history following covid and the aftermath of the extraordinary crisis. That lasted into 2022. At that point, inflation became a huge concern. I think were all pretty aware of that and we had I think 11 separate interest rate increases from the Fed over the course of a year and a half or so, and that got US All The Way up to federal funds rate of 5%. Since then, weve had a number of cuts. Those ended last year, late 2025. We had three cuts that brought US All The Way back down to 375 where we are today. Longer term rates are influenced by more market forces by -- than just the Fed. So youll see that the Treasury rate, the ten-year Treasury rate, the light blue line, tracks somewhat. There is a correlation between the Fed fund rate and the Treasury rate, but IT fluctuates much more. Its much more volatile. And IT has increased, decreased. The highest IT got to was about 5% towards the end of 2023, and its vacillated since then. Right now, somewhere around 410, 420, something like that. The 30-year Treasury rate looks a lot like the 10-year Treasury rate. Excuse me, the 30-year mortgage rate, I should say. Mortgage rates, as we all remember, got really, really low during the covid crisis. And then they have gotten pretty darn high since then. Capped out at about 8%. And come down now, I think 6.1, Something like that, average 30-year rate right now. Fed Funds. Some dummy, me, left two pages. Ill use the correct one. Talk a little bit more about the Fed Funds rate. Again, Federal Reserve has that two-part mandate. Maintain maximum employment and maintain price stability. Those two things can be in opposition from time to time. Recently weve seen their messaging shift from a focus on controlling inflation to worrying about the labor market a little bit more. Weve seen some softening in the labor market. At their December 2025 meeting, they did make the last of the 2025 interest rate cuts. They lowered the Fed Funds rate by 25 basis points down to 375. But notably we had three dissenting votes. Two of the Fed Governors voted for keeping rates stable and not cutting rates at all. And another voted for making a larger cut and lowering IT by a full 50 basis points down to 3.5. At the January meeting, they held rates stable, but we had two dissent this time. Both of those governors favored 25 basis point reduction. We are seeing some push and pull.
Lynn Hurtak
10:52:41AM Could you tell US the number of people that constitute that Board? Because im not sure what three dissent, is that three out of 12?
Jon Ford
10:52:51AM Can somebody remember how many members versus voting members? I cant remember. Well look -- I cant remember how many members versus voting members they have. Not everyone votes. Seven?
Lynn Hurtak
10:53:08AM So three is substantial. Okay. Thank you.
Jon Ford
10:53:12AM Apologies for that. Should have had the answer ready.
Lynn Hurtak
10:53:16AM No worries.
Jon Ford
10:53:17AM The Fed releases data, most recent is from December where you sort of look at where all the different governors view interest rates as going over the course of this year, meaning the Fed funds rate. That data indicates they expect one more rate cut this year. Wall Street disagrees with that. Wall Street is actually anticipating, we can see this through various Financial Markets, two additional rate cuts throughout the year. They think that inflation is going to be more problematic -- excuse me, they think that softening labor markets are going to be more problematic, so they think there will be pressure to lower rates more and generate more employment. That is an inflationary move, however, so there is a push-pull going on. Kevin Warsh is the gentleman nominated by the President to succeed Powell as the chair of the Federal Reserve. We have that coming up in May, presuming mr. Warsh is confirmed by the Senate. Then we have uncertainty. Uncertainty is, of course, risk. We talk about inflation and employment May react differently to some of these decisions. Those things are going on in the market right now. Zero into how this all relates to municipal bonds, tax exempt bonds, our yield curve, which means at the beginning, short end of the yield curve, short-term interest rates and at the long end of the yield curve, those are 30-year interest rates. Weve seen a twisting of this curve over the past year. Weve seen short-term rates drop substantially. That more or less reflects the actions of the Federal Reserve and weve seen long-term rates rise somewhat, but not nearly as much as the drop on the short end. The curve is steeper today than IT was a year ago. On the right-hand side, this chart shows US the blue line is the actual yield on a theoretical 20-year municipal bond. Triple a rated like tampas water and wastewater bonds. You can see that they vacillated somewhat through the year. Weve ended down in probably the 375 range. During the year, we got up fairly high, however, when the liberation of the tariffs announced last year, Financial Markets did experience a period of volatility. That volatility is indicated by the red line there. Volatility has dropped substantially since then. Similar activity to what we saw in the equity markets. I think ill pause there. I think that is the last of my section.
Lynn Hurtak
10:55:56AM Any questions? Okay. Thank you so much.
Jon Ford
10:55:59AM I did have one more. Bored you enough already, but I will continue. This is, again, the 20-year municipal bond yield. This goes All The Way back to 2016. And the red lines on this chart depict the dates on which the city priced bond issues over those years. You can see that we were not unaffected by the volatility that affected the broader market, just like every other Municipality that enters the capital markets from time to time.
Lynn Hurtak
10:56:28AM Okay. Thank you so much. I appreciate that. This is a long presentation, otherwise I would have talked a lot more about that. Im fascinating by that.
Dennis Rogero
10:56:47AM Again, thank you for your patience. This is very good information. Im especially glad they included the last slide, you see this volatility that we discussed has real-world ramifications for the city and the residents of the city, especially when we go and seek debt. If I could have the presentation back up again, please. We talked to you a little bit about ratings. Well shout this from the mountaintop as often as we can. Congratulations, Council. Always want to make sure I congratulate Council, Mayor, departments, our professionals. Seven credit rating upgrade since 2019. You see these not only upgraded but you see the ratings are absolutely outstanding. Again, at the top there, the issuer credit rating, that would be the equivalent of my fico score, for instance. The two on the right, triple as, oh, By The Way, when you see aaa, whether uppercase or lower case, all the same. Highest you can get. Two on the right highest. Moodys is aa 1, which is the second highest you can get. You May recall, Council, that the last presentation at the City Of Tampa was number 2 nationwide compared to our peer cities. And I wish I could tell you were number one. Were not. Were close. Still number 2. There have been fluctuations of other cities on the chart in terms of rankings. We remained at the number two position. Again, Absolutely Fantastic Place to be. Very fortunate. You see the positive feedback on the right from the Credit Rating Agencies. Again, this is moodys, Standard Poor's and Fitch. The three largest and I would say most influential Credit Rating Agencies maybe in the world. Again, I have the pleasure of sharing this information with you, but its not Dennis. IT is the entirety of the team. IT is the departments. Its Council, et cetera. So everybody, congratulations. This is hot off the presses, By The Way, the beginning of this month. Debt per capita slide in here to give you a little bit of a litmus test on where we rank compared to the peer cities. Below average, happy to say that. Middle of the pack when IT comes right down to IT. But, of course, as weve discussed in the pension presentation and as were going to discuss further, its much more than just what the debt per capita is. Its good to know how we rank compared to the other localities and what the average is. Total city financing. Here are the financing categories. We showed this to Council before. Always good to refresh, I think, and continue to educate the public. Youve got your Governmental debt. Three subsets of that. Non-Ad Valorem and you see those subsets. General fund, typically were talking about general fund revenues. But you also got utility services taxes and the forthcoming CIT renewal. The community investment taxes, thats not the renewal. Those are the ones going on right now, and the stormwater assessment. So thats your Governmental debt. Separate and apart from you see here the Enterprise debt. Those agencies that are run like a business -- water and sewer and Solid Waste. Here we call wastewater. And your total outstanding principal. Just under 1.7 Billion total. And you see the subsets right there. Non-Ad Valorem, 516, a little over 516 million. One note before I forget. In the upper left corner, youll see the overwhelming majority of the slides say "as of September 30, 2025." Again, we want a nice, consistent audit trail in terms of our financial statements. So this is best practice. This is what we do. There will be some exceptions in here just, again, for further education and context. But I did want to make sure I say that. You can see the CIT, little over 19 million. Stormwater, a little over 139 million. The Enterprise at now over a billion dollars in principal. And this is the total city principal by year compared to our budget. And one of the reasons we like this chart, IT shows a couple of things that I think are positive. Our proportion of citywide debt continues to go down while, of course, as City Council knows the budget continues to go up. The budget is probably going to continue going up, but what youll see here that we like is a plateauing after we get into the second decade of the 21st century. Evening out 80s, 70s percentage as opposed to over 200% in fiscal year 2000. You see the dollar amount totals within those subsets, but I think the takeaway is how they have crossed those two -- those two indicators have crossed paths and thats heading mostly in opposite directions. Speaking of the complete picture, of course, we cant talk about debt if we dont talk about interest. Here are your principal and interest annual payments and total right now in the city. Governmental, Enterprise. Little over 2.8 Billion. About 60% of that is principal and about 40% of that is interest. For the most part, you see a nice smooth debt plan, tapering off in the out-years, with the exception of a couple of spikes there. As we talked before, that 2029 spike is the debt that were holding and anticipate continuing with the Solid Waste 30-year bond. Right now, the plan is to pay all that off in 2029. Well, were not going to do that. Were going to transfer IT into a 30-year bond for Solid Waste. But this is what the chart represents because thats what IT is right now until we bring you for approval 30-year bond for the Solid Waste Department. You got a similar situation going on in fiscal year 2027. So what you will see once we take care of that 30-year Solid Waste bond is a nice smooth debt picture tapering off in the out years. And there is a lot going on here, but Council has requested this in the past. I find IT very useful. I think we find IT very useful. This is the entirety. The total city principal and interest both current and potential. A little over -- little under $5.4 Billion. And you see IT broken down into just about every category you can imagine. Governmental, Enterprise, water, wastewater Enterprise, Solid Waste, interest, both what we got now and what we got then. For the most part, again, a nice smooth plan. Now, this is looking out to 2060. So similarly to our pension discussion and similarly to the prediction Of Wall Street that Mr. Ford shared with you, things will change. But all we can do is come up with the best plan at the time with the best information that we have. Dont worry, were going to break this down into individual components. Want to start high and Work Our Way down.
Alan Clendenin
11:04:59AM 2060, Charlie and I will be here to hold you accountable for those numbers.
Dennis Rogero
11:05:05AM I look forward to IT, Sir.
Alan Clendenin
11:05:11AM Lets pause there for Councilwoman Hurtak.
Lynn Hurtak
11:05:15AM Trying to wait until a natural break. If you could go back to the slide just before that, so what youre saying, this is projected. So this is taking that 27 and 29 and filtering IT through for 30 years.
Dennis Rogero
11:05:36AM Not yet.
Lynn Hurtak
11:05:37AM No so its not. Right now, this is showing the debt that we do have.
Dennis Rogero
11:05:41AM Exactly.
Lynn Hurtak
11:05:42AM I appreciate IT.
Dennis Rogero
11:05:43AM Sorry if I wasnt clear on that. Because IT is a bit of an aberration.
Lynn Hurtak
11:05:51AM The problem is taking that 27 and 29 debt and adding IT, IT will make the debt considerably higher.
Dennis Rogero
11:06:00AM When you spread IT out over 30 years, you wont get that huge spike, but IT will make IT higher.
Lynn Hurtak
11:06:05AM Thats what the very next slide shows.
Dennis Rogero
11:06:07AM Yes.
Lynn Hurtak
11:06:08AM Thank you. Just wanted to clarify.
Dennis Rogero
11:06:10AM Thank you. I appreciate you making me clarify that.
Alan Clendenin
11:06:12AM CFO, I had read somewhere that a Nonprofit Organization had rated city debts like top 100 or 75 or 50, cities, and that we came in at the fourth lowest of all the metropolitan cities. Are you aware of that figure?
Dennis Rogero
11:06:31AM I am not.
Alan Clendenin
11:06:31AM I read somewhere in some news report.
Dennis Rogero
11:06:34AM Fourth lowest?
Alan Clendenin
11:06:36AM Lowest debt, like top metropolitan cities.
Dennis Rogero
11:06:39AM I would be very surprised. But im not aware of that.
Lynn Hurtak
11:06:43AM If you find that, could you forward IT to all of US? I would be fascinated by that.
Dennis Rogero
11:06:49AM Could you forward IT to me also, Sir? Thank you.
Alan Clendenin
11:06:52AM Ive got a bagel on order. When I take a break to eat the bagel, ill look for IT. No other questions, we can continue.
Dennis Rogero
11:07:02AM That is the entirety of the picture at this time. Then I want to take this opportunity to segue into the CIT renewal that was also a council motion. And there is the motion right there. Again, the emphasis is not only the CIT renewal coming up at the end of this year, but also how IT could be used to mitigate that picture. Little refresh here. This is right off the website. The community investment tax. I should have defined that earlier. $783 million in yellow in the lower right. That is what is anticipated to be received by The City. Or I should say that is what was anticipated to be by The City when this plan was put together a few years ago. Also want to state -- that is a big number. Its probably going to get bigger but I want to reemphasize, not getting that all at once. Were not doing a debt issuance for 783 million, for example. Its spread over 15 years. IT doesnt start until already into next fiscal year and we havent even started collecting IT yet. This is all, again, conjecture, educated conjecture based on what we know at this time. What youll see here are the allocations by category along with updated projections of what those revenues will be over the next five years. I guess six years. You had a question, sir.
Alan Clendenin
11:08:38AM Well wait for a pause.
Dennis Rogero
11:08:39AM Fiscal year '27 through fiscal year '31. And all told, anticipated to bring in about $250 million. You see that footnote at the bottom, assumes an annual 3% growth in CIT revenues. Now, you May have read in the media recently theres been a lot of discussion about what will that annual percentage growth be? If its more than 3%, well, IT will be more than you see here and IT will be more than was part of the plan when this renewal was enacted. You see at the bottom, IT goes through 2042. So that is the x factor right now is just what will this bring in from a growth perspective over the next 15 years. You May have also read that in hindsight, IT looks like the current CIT at about a 4 plus percent growth rate. So this 3 percent I would submit and by design, is very conservative. There May be more. One of the other things I would like to point out is in contrast to the CIP we have now, from fiscal year '26 to fiscal year '30, we have taken this out five years. Want to get a little more accurate in terms of what we expect and bring further into play that final year, in this five-year period. Fiscal year 2031. Youll see IT is all falling into fund balance there. Theres no allocations at this time because we dont have a CIP. Yet that corresponds to this. But I do want to give Council and the public an idea of just what kind of funding were talking about annually over the next 15 years. I think the crux of that discussion is whether the project categories are reprioritized in the next CIP. Whether we collect more funding than we anticipate or whether we take advantage of the unallocated, fiscal year 2031 and beyond, those are the opportunities to mitigate the potential debt service. Im not prepared to discuss IT, but you will have read about IT in the media. This funding source has also been discussed regarding the professional baseball. There are a lot of factors in play when we discuss how were going to allocate and how were going to eventually spend this funding. My takeaway, its significant. Could be more. Could be more. If you have seen the annual -- and I dont think we put IT in here. We did not. If you have seen the annual collections of the existing CIP. -- CIT, excuse me, IT looks just like those other investment charts did. Ekg. Great years, awful years. Great years, awful years. Looking back, about a 4% annual growth rate. Can we look forward to that? I dont know. Maybe. Maybe. But its significant funding. So in my mind, Council, this is a jumping off point for discussion, future discussion about what this funding will be used for and will IT be used to mitigate debt.
Alan Clendenin
11:11:57AM Councilman Miranda followed by Maniscalco.
Charlie Miranda
11:11:59AM I agree with the last sentence you said what IT should be used for. First of all, how many years do we have of CIT left?
Dennis Rogero
11:12:07AM The Current CIT ends this year, and this one starts up for 15 years at the end --
Charlie Miranda
11:12:13AM 15 Plus One, 16 years.
Dennis Rogero
11:12:16AM 16 years when you combine both of them. Yes, sorry.
Charlie Miranda
11:12:20AM When im -- im taking an assumption of a public facility, which I really dont know what IT means, but I do know what IT means now after IT passed that IT was not just public facilities. IT was public facilities for someone else. Im looking at that, if I go back one more, like $48 million there?
Dennis Rogero
11:12:43AM Which slide?
Charlie Miranda
11:12:46AM Ill find IT for you.
Dennis Rogero
11:12:54AM 31 yes.
Charlie Miranda
11:12:58AM 72 Million, 9.1 Million, 9.3 Million, 9.53 -- 27 and 8 im going to say. So you have close to 40 million, more than $40 million going to whatever public facilities are. Public facilities, no one can walk in without a ticket. You can go to the public park, you can go to a rec center. You can go to something that any Government Agency owns and thats public facility. But in this case, public facility, in my mind anyway, correct me if im wrong, is not either one of those. Am I correct or not?
Dennis Rogero
11:13:40AM I believe you are correct. Let me define that first. You can see under public facilities, Raymond James Stadium and Amalie Arena.
Charlie Miranda
11:13:48AM IT wasnt Put That Way, if not, IT would have never passed. IT was put down as public facilities for a reason. A cause and determination of minds to put how do we screw the public. Thats exactly what they did. But thats yesterdays news. There is another entity now that wants to take over and becomes part of the public facility, though they were not here then, am I correct?
Dennis Rogero
11:14:16AM Im sorry. Could you repeat the question?
Charlie Miranda
11:14:19AM Sometimes I cant repeat myself because I dont know what I said earlier.
Dennis Rogero
11:14:23AM Thats why I asked.
Charlie Miranda
11:14:25AM In the CIT that people want that IT was needed for the public at the time IT was passed IT was not intended to be what IT is now. In other words, somebody comes in, pays something for the ford or not a ford, yet they want US, taxpayers of City Of Tampa and Hillsborough County to get ready to buy the CIT and get that to ensure that they can succeed in whatever the hell they want to do. First of all, they say somebody, much higher government than US, oh, that building has to come down because its 50 years old. If thats true, then 99.9 Percent, almost a hundred percent of all the dwellings in Tampa should be destroyed. And made new. Thats what they say or he said. Not I. Not you, not anyone here. So when I look at these things and I study IT, its fascinating how someone can say I want your money to do what I made an investment in for my own cause, not for public facilities, because you got to buy a ticket to get in. To whatever IT is. Im appalled At The Way we do things and nothing with you, reflection on your department, believe me. I think you guys do unbelievable job with all the numbers every time we ask you to come up with the right numbers, how IT came about, where the expenditures are going on a monthly basis. I dont see how you do that but one fantastic job. Why do we have to put public facilities where we know that the public cannot get in? If IT really means public facilities. Everybody went mute.
Alan Clendenin
11:16:18AM I believe that has been asked and answered. Im trying to wrap you back into the discussion today.
Charlie Miranda
11:16:24AM Like a storm, rolls up and rolls out. Ive done my damage and leave, thats what is happening. We are raiding our own money and giving IT away. Ill stop right there for now. Thank you.
Alan Clendenin
11:16:36AM Thank you. Councilman Maniscalco.
Guido Maniscalco
11:16:39AM Thank you very much. Mr. Rogero, do you know what the percentage is of CIT income that is paid by outside sources? Meaning, Folks That Drive in to go to work or tourists that come and spend their money. I dont know if IT was 40% -- I forgot what the number is. IT is a significant change --
Dennis Rogero
11:16:58AM We Can Circle back to you on that.
Guido Maniscalco
11:17:02AM Ill tell you why I like the CIT and why I dont like bonding. In the previous slide, right before this looking at the amount of interest that were going to be paying from now till fiscal year 2060 is in the billions of dollars. Money that were giving away to the banks. Last night I spent some time with some friends, and I kept hearing the word dividend, dividend. Wait until your dividend check hits and spend your dividend or reinvest your dividend. IT made me think of the CIT. The CIT is a dividend because IT is money generated by local, by US, people that come here, from outside the county, but IT is money that is coming in that were not borrowing. If you look at what were borrowing and you talked about interest rates, were paying money to the bank. Its not free money. And when we talk about potential cuts in interest rates as what could be projected at the federal level, remember that when you cut interest rates, its not that were saving money. Things go up. Thats what triggered the inflation that weve seen. And looking at the chart that you showed, when you look at the cost of housing, the cost of everything else that went up during covid, IT was when interest rates were at their lowest. Now were in this -- Councilman Miranda mentioned the two by four that was two dollars is now ten dollars. Supply chain issues. The housing market that went from you could buy a house for 200 but now 450. Now were talking about bringing rates down, but if we bring rates down, we, they from the federal level, kick off inflation, are we going to be back in the same situation? All in the essence of a softening job market. I mean, its really, you know, were stuck. IT is a catch-22. You think IT is cheaper money or free money, almost free money, but everything becomes more expensive. Anyways, looking at the CIT, I see how the categories are separated. Public safety facilities. Going back to the original CIT in the 1990s, IT was I believe CIT money was used to build the police substations. District one, two and three, I think, in the Greco Administration. Why is so little allocated to public safety facilities when Councilman Viera has been such a champion on more fire stations. Weve heard from the Union. Weve heard from TPD regarding public safety vehicles, even Tampa Fire, replacing the vehicles, which are very expensive. Why do we allocate such little money when if youre looking at the projected ending fund balance as IT continues to grow, from my understanding, maybe im reading this wrong, but by fiscal year 2031 you anticipate after expenses $77 million, correct?
Dennis Rogero
11:19:53AM That is the forecast based on 3%.
Guido Maniscalco
11:19:56AM Could be higher, could be lower. Why are we not allocating -- again, not that its free money, but money were not looking at bonding. When we talked about the CIP. And Mr. Perry mentioned its not that you approve something year one, you look multiple years, we have estimates of these numbers from 24 million one year and then you get to 2031 to $77 million, bonding less. Borrowing less. Again, going back to the conversation that I had listening to them last night, these gentlemen, nobody said put IT on the credit card. I kept hearing, when the dividend check hits, thats when I spend that money or I reinvest IT. Nobody said, well, put IT on american express and get the points. They never talked about debt. Not saying all debt is bad, but we have opportunities here moving forward that we can save so much money. Ill end with going back to this chart of the interest that were paying is insane. I know that IT one day will sunset, but in the meantime, were going to be adding on more projects in the next 30, what is IT, 33, 34 years, that debt is never going to go away. Never pay IT off. Never will be debt-free. In the meantime, with this 15-year opportunity of the CIT, we can make prudent decisions where we May not be here, but in those generation -- the next generation, were not just constantly paying the banks. Thats IT. Thank you.
Alan Clendenin
11:21:20AM One thing that jumps off the table for me is that -- sorry, didnt see your light. Councilwoman Naya Young.
Naya Young
11:21:28AM Thank you so much. As im looking at the CIT renewal summary and the proposed community investment project list, sidewalk repairs, repaving, bridge repairs, these different things, ive had opportunity to attend a lot of Neighborhood Association meetings. And as im listening to some of the community, a lot of what comes up is, you know, how, you know -- you know, where they always ask, you know, where is this -- you know, where does the money go? You know, these roads have been like this, you know, for as long as I can remember or, you know, people have lived in communities for, you know, 10, 20 plus years. So as were looking -- you know, as were looking at this and looking at these dollar amounts, can you maybe speak to that or provide some kind of, I guess, -- only word I can think of is explanation, but how do we know moving forward with these, you know, this project list that IT makes IT into communities that, you know, over years havent necessarily seen some of these projects? Because I could tell you right now, all the meetings that our community association meetings ive been to, sidewalks, repaving, bridge repairs, traffic, all of these things come up all the time. And so for me as im looking at these numbers and im like, okay, something -- how -- where is the connection? Because youre saying this is going to happen and were doing these but, you know, these past five months through, you know, a lot of the areas in my district and I talk to people, oh, as long as I lived here. Can you provide some kind of maybe I dont know explanation or clarity or just something that kind of speaks to that?
Dennis Rogero
11:23:17AM Yes, maam. Ill do my best. This is a good slide to start at the macro level. Again, a little over $780 million. You see the allocation for transportation and public works, 191 million. One of -- and then ill advance to this slide. And we bring IT down to the year by year project category by project category level. The short answer to your question is, the capital improvement program. During budget development, when Council looks at the five-year plan for any number of funding sources, including this one, youll identify similar to what Mr. Perry and Councilwoman Hurtak were discussing early, project by project by project within that capital improvement program. Its five years. Its a plan. We adopt the first year. So youll take this funding on an annual basis in these categories or not these categories, again, that is an opportunity to change the amounts for these categories during the capital improvement program. And then youll allocate. Ill take, for example, Parks capital. That 3.5 Million fiscal year 2027 could go to docks. IT could go to trails. IT could go to any number of Parks and Recreation purposes. Does that help make a connection from the big pot of money to each individual project? And thats part of the budget development process.
Naya Young
11:24:44AM Kind of. My thing is I just want to be sure, you know, as were looking at these numbers that were making sure its disbursed equally throughout the city. Again, I ride through my communities and district just so I can get first hand what, you know, community is dealing with. So I -- my thing is making sure, how do We make sure that these numbers that were looking at, these large, you know, sums of money are being disbursed evenly throughout the city.
Dennis Rogero
11:25:17AM That would be the budget process.
Lynn Hurtak
11:25:21AM Just so you know, if you look at the renewal summary, this is for the renewal. This hasnt even happened yet. So the past CIT is what youre looking at. Unfortunately, if im correct, a lot of that money was bonded immediately, so We didnt get a lot -- We werent able to use that year by year. The State has since changed the process with which We can use CIT money, so that is what youre seeing here. These sidewalk repairs, all of that were not necessarily in the last CIT, and were still in the last CIT until the beginning of next year. Thats a partial reasoning too.
Dennis Rogero
11:26:00AM Great point. Thank you, maam. This is all prospective. That was retrospective. I will segue back to one of Councilman Maniscalco's questions, you see IT weighted each year, for instance, Public Safety Vehicles. You can see the priority for this particular capital improvement program. Punt safety vehicles at a little over twelve five and then escalating each year. And in the past, the capital -- sorry, the community investment tax was also utilized for that to take some of the burden off of the General Fund. So priorities change and detailed decisions change every single year during the budget process. But thank you, that is a good clarification. Thank you.
Lynn Hurtak
11:26:43AM Mr. Miranda?
Charlie Miranda
11:26:48AM No.
Lynn Hurtak
11:26:50AM Councilman Carlson.
Bill Carlson
11:26:54AM Thank you. I want to reiterate some of what my colleague, council member Maniscalco said a little while ago. All of these -- all or most of these are real high priorities. We hear about these every day, and we need to focus on these in the regular budget, too. But we need to remember public safety vehicles and Public Safety Facilities are lumped in together. Weve seen firsthand that fire has been underfunded for years. And when the fire trucks or fire facilities are supposed to be -- fire vehicles are supposed to be four, five years old and they are twenty years old, and if there arent enough of them, then we cant provide the level of service. Sounds like from what Chief Tripp is saying, were getting by right now. Soon, well face situations where either vehicles wont arrive on time because we dont have enough of them or a 20-year-old vehicle breaks down while they are On The Way to save somebody with a heart attack. We have to set that as a priority. The other thing, I dont know if we need to do this by ordinance or whatever, we need to make sure that CIT money is not used on any vanity projects. Existing CIT, some proposals to use them on vanity projects. But this is not about putting something in somebodys exit video. IT has to be on the basic infrastructure that the city needs. Thank you.
Lynn Hurtak
11:28:19AM Okay. I believe We are ready for the next segment.
Dennis Rogero
11:28:24AM Thank you, Council. If I could have -- there we are. All right. Council, would you mind advancing to the reimbursement resolution section? Our Bond Counsel has to leave, and then we can come back to --
Lynn Hurtak
11:28:45AM Sure. Is that the next section? Reimbursement resolution. I think IT is a couple more down. Page numbers would have been helpful.
Dennis Rogero
11:29:00AM I apologize. Yes. This is Mr. Steve Miller, Our Bond Counsel.
Lynn Hurtak
11:29:14AM The next section. About six pages down.
Steve Miller
11:29:21AM Good morning. Steve Miller with Nabors, Giblin Nickerson, bond counsel for the city. Thank You for that. I have a flight to catch in not too long. So I wanted to get through this. Dennis asked me to speak a little bit on the reimbursement resolutions. I think the majority of You have seen them before and considered them before, but wanted to do, again, a general overview about what They are, why We do them and what They are not as well. These rules, these reimbursement rules are tax rules that the IRS administers. They were Put In Place in the early '90s because the IRS perceived that there were some local governments that were kind of abusing the tax-exempt marketplace by doing projects on a Pay-As-You-Go basis. That was kind of the plan. They did the project and then years later They would plug a budget gap or just decide that They needed cash, They would look back and say, hey, the project We did four years ago, We could have bonded for that. They would go out and issue bonds and then plug the budget gap or put IT back into their funds. IRS came up with rules in the early '90s that said, look, We understand that during your capital program process, IT takes a while, as We learned earlier today. And that We May change our minds Along The Way about how were going to fund something. We dont know up front when a project comes along, will We do IT with cash or do IT with debt? They put in rules that said, okay, We get that. But if You want to preserve your right to do debt, when You dont know what youre going to do up front, and that You May use some of your own monies to fund the project initially, We want to You adopt what is called an official intent. And in Florida They kind of evolved into these short reimbursement resolutions. And what They are intended to do is to -- most importantly is to preserve your ability to issue tax exempt debt for a project in the future if You are going to possibly use.
Dennis Rogero
11:31:22AM Do You have the presentation in front of You, Council? Could we have the presentation -- there You are.
Steve Miller
11:31:27AM So IT allows You, most importantly, the flexibility that when a project commences, You May know IT up front that You want to issue tax exempt debt. You May know that You want to do IT pay as You go, but You May not know. So the issue is adopting these is a very good tool to give You the flexibility Down The Road to possibly issue tax exempt debt. One thing want to make clear, IT doesnt commit You to issue the debt. IT simply is preserving that right. And the benefits that are listed up here, I think I covered the first two bullets, is that IT allows You to take advantage of tax exempt debt. IT preserves your options to decide how to do IT Down The Road. An important item, the third bullet that folks dont talk about too much is as we just saw how long the process can be, if You issue debt on day one, the interest clock starts accruing. Youre starting to be liable for interest. If You do have funds on hand that You can use your own initially and then get to a critical Mass stage where You issue debt, reimburse yourself and move forward. IT does save on interest or can. There are also tax rules, additional tax rules in the code that have requirements about how quickly You spend tax empty bond proceeds and how quickly You expect to spend tax exempt bond proceeds. Sometimes when You have a project that will take a very, very, very long time, its almost impossible to comply with those rules. Some people can use this as a way to use your own money and then issue the debt when You are actually ready to really start spending IT on a quicker pace. The next slide, three components, the key ones that the IRS requires You to have in there, one, a general description of the project. They dont want You just doing a blanket reimbursement resolution for your entire five-year CIP. They want some specificity about what were talking about. They also want to know which funds or fund that You expect to spend some of your own money out of. Doing a water sewer deal, Water And Sewer Enterprise Fund is likely where You spend money from before You issue the debt in some of the Police and other general governmental projects IT would be coming from the General Fund. So They want You to identify that as well. Most importantly, They want You to identify the Not-To-Exceed, expected Not-To-Exceed borrowing amount. If You were to end up borrowing for this project, what is your best estimate of the not to exceed amount? A lot of times when You see the resolution IT can be a pretty high number because we want to make sure we dont under do that number. If You end up to the finish line and issue more than that number, youve got to amend your reimbursement resolution or do a new one. Its just difficult. What goes into that calculation, obviously, all of the council approved contract prices, predesign, design, acquisition, construction, then there is additional costs that have to be kept in mind when we issue debt, and not on this list also are things like your debt May require debt service reserve fund. Cost of issuance involved with doing a debt issue. Ratings fees, underwriters fees. So all of those items have to be considered when coming up with that not to exceed amount. So the key takeaways are, its a great tool to allow You Guys to have options Down The Road. IT does not commit You to issuing debt. When You Guys adopt a reimbursement resolution, there will be another opportunity Down The Road as the project goes along for You all to make the decision whether or not to issue debt or not for that project. And youd have to adopt a full-blown bond resolution. With that I know You Guys have seen this quite a bit, but we can answer some questions.
Lynn Hurtak
11:35:20AM Does Council have questions? Thank you very much.
Steve Miller
11:35:22AM Thank you very much.
Dennis Rogero
11:35:29AM Thank you, Sir. If I could have the presentation back up. Now I believe --
Lynn Hurtak
11:35:39AM Are we going backward?
Dennis Rogero
11:35:43AM We are going backward. I apologize. There We are.
Lynn Hurtak
11:35:48AM Non-ad valorem financing.
Dennis Rogero
11:35:51AM This is Molly Clark from Prag.
Alan Clendenin
11:35:57AM Before you step away, Mr. CFO, I ate my bagel and did my research. From the capitalist, tampas financial condition is fourth best nationally. Report on the financial condition of the US. Cities found that Tampa was the fourth best nationally with a surplus of $3400 per taxpayer. And they say ranked among 75 cities. Interesting thing, only two cities in Florida, orlando and Tampa, that Ranked That Way. And then they referred to the dismal condition of jacksonville which they owe $9800 per taxpayer for the debt. By The Way, IT includes debt and pensions.
Dennis Rogero
11:36:34AM I apologize. I had interpreted IT to be the fourth worst. You said fourth lowest. Thank You very much. I am less shocked.
Alan Clendenin
11:36:47AM I was wondering, Man, what are you holding back? IT was interesting. Came across in my google alerts. There we go.
Dennis Rogero
11:36:55AM Thank you very much. Another congratulations.
Molly Clark
11:36:59AM Good morning. Im Molly Clark with Public Resources Advisory Group, the citys other financial advisor. Happy to be here. Lets get started. In this section, well discuss the citys existing outstanding debt thats secured by non-ad valorem revenues. This is the pie chart you saw earlier. Again, were highlighting in the next several slides the outstanding non-ad valorem revenue bonds. Total of approximately 517 million in bonds outstanding. The non-ad valorem revenues are made up of several different revenue sources. Your non-ad valorem revenue debt is made up of several different individual bond issues that were issued at different points in time and mature at different points in time going forward. This slide presents our annual debt service starting from fiscal year 2026 going through fiscal 2051 on your non-ad valorem revenue bonds. These bond issues, as you can see, debt service is what we refer to as front end loaded, meaning that in the next four years, youll see that weve got substantially higher annual debt service payments, then due in fiscal year 30 through 2051. Again, Dennis and Mike both touched on this earlier. That spike we see in 2029 is the result of the principal on the Solid Waste, the refurbishment of the McKay Bay Solid Waste facility was financed with non-ad valorem revenue pledge. That is a short-term instrument that we anticipate refinancing in 2027, 2028, so that large payment in 2029 will not actually come to be made. IT will be refinanced before we reach that point in time. And then, as we discussed earlier as well, that portion of the debt will be smoothed out and extended over the forthcoming 30-year period. Moving to the next slide, again, non-ad valorem revenues, IT is a large basket of several different revenue sources. We have local option gas tax. CRA revenues, tdt, all of these different revenues make up the non-ad valorem revenue basket and different revenues May be pledged in aggregate or you have certain outstanding bond issues that are secured individually by one of the pledged non-ad valorem revenue sources. For example, your Convention Center debt is backed by revenues generated by the Convention Center. You have sales tax revenue bonds that are backed only by the CIT sales tax revenues, not the entire basket of non-ad valorem revenues. So we see, again, fiscal year 26, 27, 28, 29 your debt service payments are substantially higher in those years than they will be 2030 and going forward. Ill point out on this slide also, just for purposes of the width of the slide, this only shows through 2036. However, debt service does at this point in time stay level at approximately $15.9 Million per year, All The Way through 2051. We just couldnt fit IT all on one slide. This is the schedule of outstanding principal, again, from -- in this case 2025 was included through 2051. This shows how your principal is paid down over time from this point in time. If no new debt were to be issued between now and 2051, you pay IT all down and in 2051 relinquish the final payment and be debt free going forward. We dont expect that to be the case. City most likely will issue new debt. Debt is needed and appropriate to use as a financing mechanism to operate the City. This just shows the amortization of your principal overall in the non-ad valorem revenue bond program. And that May be the last of the slides here. If anyone has questions, im happy to take them. Thats just an overview of the currently outstanding non-ad valorem revenue bonds.
Alan Clendenin
11:41:16AM Councilman Miranda.
Charlie Miranda
11:41:16AM Thank you very much. Page 34, when I see the principal and the interest, how you get that low interest rate. 35%? Just taking a guess.
Molly Clark
11:41:27AM This represents several different bond issues and a couple of Bank Facilities. And each one being priced at a different point in time in different market conditions, each one of those debt issuances carries a different interest rate. As you see, the general government portion, that is made up of a few different series of bonds. So that is the collective principal and the collective interest of those bonds. Its not one flat interest rate across all --
Charlie Miranda
11:41:59AM Still the lowest interest rate ive seen so far. Still the lowest interest rate ive seen so far in all the presentations today.
Molly Clark
11:42:06AM Okay.
Charlie Miranda
11:42:07AM I want to say thank you.
Molly Clark
11:42:09AM Again, your interest rates are based on your credit ratings. And the non-ad valorem revenue bonds have these very, very strong credit rates, aa 1 for moodys. Aaa from SP and Fitch with those strong credit ratings, youre getting just about the lowest available interest rates in any market. Its to the citys credit that the debt profile has been very well managed and thankfully your credit ratings reflect that and as a result you do achieve excellent interest rates.
Charlie Miranda
11:42:45AM Thank you.
Alan Clendenin
11:42:47AM Very good. Any other questions? Councilman Viera had pointed out that were honored to have vice president Mike Pence in the audience today. [ laughter
11:43:15AM Go ahead.
Dennis Rogero
11:43:17AM Dennis Rogero, chief financial officer. Thank you. I know this is a lengthy presentation, but we are talking about a lot of money and a lot of decisions. Thank you for your continuing patience. Now more on the Ad Valorem debt program. Ill make this as brief as I can. We do want to make sure, Council and the public are aware of upcoming debt actions in the short term. You see these right here. TPD howard annex building, the Fleet Maintenance decentralization, also known as 40th street. The public safety training facility and the west riverwalk. You see the asterisk there. I want to point out, especially Councilwoman Hurtak, as we talk going through those monthly reports, that howard annex project is actually a two project. I dont want to lose that. Used to be called the impound lot project when were talking about that. Got two components in the capital improvement program. And well be coming to you in the short term for -- the reimbursement resolutions for those items. Further, to what we envision the financing plan to be at this time, you see the line of credit in the first column there and the potential debt issuances two, three, four, and five, somewhat in the out years, as long as fiscal year 2033, for example, and again to the right, you see about a quarter of a billion dollars in anticipated financing at this time, although I will note in the lower left, a little icing on the cake there, we did get a significant grant for Fire Station 24 from the Feds and about a quarter of a million dollars for the riverwalk. Well certainly take IT, and IT will reduce what we think the debt is going to be. I break these -- or excuse me, we break the categories down into more detail and to the individual project levels. For instance, you see Fire Station 24 line of credit in the current year. Maintenance. I wont read through every single item. And we have arrived at these time frames based on, as I believe Mr. Perry stated earlier, discussion with the stakeholder as to when will we realistically need this money? Again, as you heard, our Bond Counsel say what we would like to do ideally, we dont want to borrow money and spend interest on IT before we start using that money. Continuing into the convention center and General Government, there is that decentralization. I dont know if you can see IT on here. I have two monitors here. One shows the shading. One does not. Council, can you see the Fleet Maintenance decentralization in gray? I want to note, those items or those projects in gray are those projects that we will be asking for reimbursement resolution. Moving into Parks and Recreation and mobility, quite a few projects in the mobility portfolio. Back up real quick. Again, I hope I made IT clear that those were the individual projects under these particular categories.
Alan Clendenin
11:47:20AM Councilwoman Hurtak.
Lynn Hurtak
11:47:35AM So I think if You go back to page 41 on this where You talk about the capital improvement projects, I understand that You show IT over the next several slides, but I think what would have been very helpful is to have the total amounts for each of these projects here. Because thats what is missing.
Dennis Rogero
11:47:54AM Understood.
Lynn Hurtak
11:47:54AM Could You just tell US here how much is the TPD Howard Avenue annex?
Dennis Rogero
11:48:06AM I cannot. All I can tell You is the potential debt service component. I absolutely see your point. And well provide that to You.
Lynn Hurtak
11:48:15AM Yeah, because I think thats kind of the thing of when youre looking for capital improvement projects, upcoming debt actions, we need to know what that debt is. So thank you.
Dennis Rogero
11:48:26AM Yes, maam.
Alan Clendenin
11:48:26AM Is that IT? Councilman Carlson.
Bill Carlson
11:48:28AM Just the same thing. We talk about reimbursement resolution, Chair Clendenin kind of said this earlier, but IT seems putting the CART before the horse to approve an amount to obligate, potentially obligate US to when we dont have any idea how much IT will cost, seems we should wait to get GMP before signing any more reimbursement resolutions.
Dennis Rogero
11:48:54AM I was going to say -- that sounds like a great idea. Wanted to confirm that we think IT is a great idea. That is the plan is to bring the reimbursement resolution coincident with the GMP. So youll have that information at the same time.
Alan Clendenin
11:49:08AM Okay. Good. I have a question.
Dennis Rogero
11:49:11AM Yes, Sir.
Alan Clendenin
11:49:12AM I dont get -- have we already authorized this? Doesnt make sense to me and maybe I missed IT. The Convention Center, which im a huge supporter of and I know all the stuff needs to be done, but this is general maintenance. Why are we doing generational financing on maintenance projects? Seems crazy to me.
Dennis Rogero
11:49:34AM Again, off the top of my head, IT will be what is available at the time in terms of funding sources and what the priorities are. I do want to emphasize, I think further to your point that this is a plan. And should the Mayor and Council decide that other funding sources are more appropriate, we can change the plan.
Alan Clendenin
11:49:54AM Where is the decision? I dont want to get caught off guard again. Where is the decision point on financing 8.7 Million for maintenance?
Dennis Rogero
11:50:01AM The capital improvement plan.
Alan Clendenin
11:50:04AM Is that already identified as financed?
Dennis Rogero
11:50:07AM Yes.
Alan Clendenin
11:50:07AM Again, so was there implied consent or vote on that? This is what im having a hard time, difficult time grasping this concept. I try not to be a stupid man.
Dennis Rogero
11:50:23AM No but I heard some of your comments earlier and I thought Mr. Perry did a great job. When IT comes to anything, look, ive got two worlds. Ive got accounting and financial statements and thats about the only thing I will be certain of because its been looked at by an external auditor and its already happened. The other world I live in is the budget and its a plan. About all I can offer you, IT is the best plan we collectively have based on the information at that time. Plans change. Again, City Council and the Mayor changed the budget by tens of millions of dollars throughout the year. That is a starting point. And the reason I say that, ill kind of draw a parallel with this financing plan. Plans change.
Alan Clendenin
11:51:15AM How does this Council, how could we at this point be proactive and not finance $8.7 Million on general maintenance?
Dennis Rogero
11:51:24AM If im not mistaken, turn to my left, We have a reimbursement resolution for this already, do We not? But not a debt issuance. Thank you, maam. Yes, weve got a reimbursement resolution and We started spending money on these. Again, as you heard our bond counsel say, that just means the Council wants to do this and We May use debt service for IT. We havent issued the debt service yet. IT is a line of credit anticipated for this function.
Alan Clendenin
11:51:54AM Just because IT was on the CIP. And We authorized the expenditures, its outside of councils domain until We proactively say, no, well pay for IT This Way instead Of That Way or is this An Automatic Drive.
Dennis Rogero
11:52:07AM No, I would not frame IT That Way because Council has to approve the debt service.
Alan Clendenin
11:52:13AM Then you bring the debt service in this big rolled-up package and becomes almost so intrinsically tied that IT is difficult for me to extract that piece of IT from that debt issuance.
Dennis Rogero
11:52:25AM Okay. That is fair, and, of course, I think weve shared in the past why We roll up debt for cost savings --
Alan Clendenin
11:52:32AM I get IT. What im trying to find is a way that Council has a clear green light, red light point of decision making, like, this is a great example. Its really clearly described to dumb butts like me, issue 8.7 For maintenance and debt. Do you want to do this or do not want to do this? I see my Attorney is waving frantically at me.
Dennis Rogero
11:53:02AM Understood.
Martin Shelby
11:53:03AM Martin Shelby, City Council attorney. Just a question perhaps for the chair and maybe to pose IT to Mr. Rogero. You also approve particular contracts on your consent agenda for this sort of work. The question then is, when you look at the summary sheet, does the summary sheet say that this is also subject to the reimbursement resolution so that council is aware that when IT approves IT, IT is going to do one of two things, IT is either going to pay as go or encumber debt to ultimately pay for IT. Does the fiscal impact actually clearly state that?
Dennis Rogero
11:53:44AM Yes. And as does --
Alan Clendenin
11:53:46AM Not clearly. Because IT says IT could be.
Dennis Rogero
11:53:50AM As does the budget. I want to work with you through this because, again, my priority is that Council understands the decisions they are making. And if we can make IT easier. Look, we live and breathe this stuff. Totally, totally get IT.
Alan Clendenin
11:54:06AM We talk about Air Traffic Control, ill Trump you on that. The budget stuff, not so much. Again, so this is one of the things that I feel like -- im sure its my fault and sure that there are points these decisions are made that I miss the fine print. But again, I just cant imagine that any point in time in my life based on my values that I would guess that I would say, oh, yeah, $8.7 Million in maintenance is something worth doing generational financing for. Just like I wouldnt suggest that we finance depreciated, things that depreciate like vehicles and whatnot. Those are pay-go kind of stuff.
Hagar Kopesky
11:54:42AM Kopesky City Council budget analyst. Sometimes I think IT is translation. I think as this group has communicated more and more about what is the right thing to use bonding for, kind of evolved. To your point, just to be very clear, the items You just described were four or five things that do appear to be more maintenance-like for convention center. But I think were agreeing that at this point in time in the past You have approved a reimbursement resolution that included those for the two, five million, whatever the total was. However, in light of the CIT balance from the previous, the potential go-forward, there is nothing that would prevent You from saying, understanding everything we have in front of US now, could You please look at whether theres capacity within this other area to now remove that and fund IT differently because You do not need to proceed forward --
Alan Clendenin
11:55:39AM I mean, my value set is that We dont finance maintenance. We dont finance depreciating assets. As best as We can. If something -- im not going to finance a Ford pickup for 30 years knowing that Ford pickup will be dead in six years. For 24 years, future generations are going to be paying for the vehicle that they had never seen.
Dennis Rogero
11:56:05AM Completely understand. Thank you for that translation, ms. Kopesky. Again, I never want to feel like Council is being backed into a corner. If we can make anything more transparent or clear --
Alan Clendenin
11:56:17AM I appreciate the presentation. This is a learning curve for myself. I dont know if anybody else on Council, a learning curve to truly understand this. And also be able to, an opportunity for at least one of seven people express what I consider to be -- im not antibonding because I know there are things that need to be bonded but at least what is appropriate to bond and what is not appropriate to bond. By The Way, all my friends at the convention center, I fully support the needs, wants, you guys have to have. These are all very worthy expenditures. Just where the dollars are coming from the only thing im questioning.
Michael Perry
11:56:53AM Again, you sort of made a point. If you look at the top column for fiscal year 2026, IT says a line of credit. And so by not issuing the bonds right off and doing a line of credit, getting a line of credit, hundred five million dollars, we just have IT out there. And we could have these discussions. And if we bring the contract for the construction and if the decision on Council is not to issue the debt, guess what, we havent already issued the debt. We just have a line of credit. So thats one of the reasons I put a line of credit coming up later this fiscal year. So we had that flexibility moving forward.
Alan Clendenin
11:57:33AM I support that. I think its great fiscal management. I saw Councilman Carlson first and then Councilwoman Hurtak.
Bill Carlson
11:57:41AM I agree with Chair Clendenin. First of all, I support the Convention Center as an idea of supporting economic development in our area. But I think we have to look at this as an Enterprise, and we had an update a few months ago. As I recall, IT seemed kind of rushed and defensive. As if we were trying to shut down the Convention Center or something. And what we need to do is look at IT as an Enterprise to figure out what else we could do to make IT more successful. Ultimately, that is up to the Administration, but if we are increasing debt, maxing credit cards out on the city. If we are going to add more debt, we need to look at what else could we have replaced since that should be an Enterprise that should potentially be generating revenue. I know there are economic impact numbers. I went to graduate school to shoot holes in economic impact numbers. I dont believe in them. There is a direct impact of actually how much is coming in, then they use multipliers and other hocus-pocus to show things. In my day job, I worked with other cities and communities, helping turn around public facilities so they could become profitable. Sometimes there are basic things that you need to do. And there is a trade-off between what is the public good you are trying to generate versus whether IT could be self-funding. But a lot of times, just certain basic choices of moving one line to another makes a big difference. An example, one facility I worked with had events on weekends that didnt pay very much, and during the week, they had weddings. By taking the low price events off the weekends, we were allowed to have weddings on the weekends that made IT profitable within a few months. That is an oversimplified version for a smaller facility, but the question is, really what is a subsidy, what should a subsidy be to a Convention Center? What is the public good that its generating? And are there other revenue sources. Anyway, im agreeing with you. I wish we would put the Convention Center back. I wont make the motion, maybe the Chair would. I wish we would put the Convention Center as an Enterprise back on a workshop so we could have a robust discussion, again, not saying that we should shut down the Convention Center or not support IT, but what are the things that we could do to generate more revenue so its more self-sustaining. Thank you.
Dennis Rogero
12:00:05PM I believe, Sir, were coming to Council in April on the very issue.
Alan Clendenin
12:00:11PM Maybe I misspoke or maybe didnt capture. I actually dont support as an Enterprise Fund. I do support the city here. I would disagree. You look at all the hotel rooms we fill, we get huge amount of hotel taxes from, there are many, many economic benefits to having a convention center in a town now, balancing that out. And you have to -- where is that sweet spot between public investment and then that return on that investment? I think we could have a really good intellectual debate on that. I think the convention center has a tremendous indirect economic impact, just like many of our public facilities -- Charlie Miranda -- our public facilities. The indirect economic impacts. [ laughter I had to Do The Drive-by. You do have to balance. How much -- how much -- how much value to we get. How many jobs created in the hotels? The catering, I mean, all the different services that are provided. You know, the public exposure and the PR for the City Of Tampa with the events that occur here. I think the same thing with all that. Every time -- every time we make a decision to invest public money into one of the infrastructure projects, you have to balance all of that out of what is the bigger economic impact. I go back to Sandy Freedman's decision to put the Aquarium and public investment in the Aquarium in channelside. So many people criticized her at that moment in time, but you look at what turned out to be billions of dollars between the Aquarium and Streetcar, billions of dollars of investment in the City Of Tampa because of this catalyst put into the city. I dont know if anybody has done what truly between downtown And Water Street and Ybor City and everything else, what looks to be a de minimis amount of public investment for return on investment.
Lynn Hurtak
12:02:15PM Thank you. I really think this week is a great week, maybe this weekend, to pull up the CIP. We have a great evening workshop coming up next Tuesday night, March 3, where were talking about the fiscal year '27 budget. Were inviting the public to come tell US what they want funded for the '27 budget. And then Council is going to talk about IT. I highly recommend that its a time to brush off the CIP. Kind of take a look at the '26 CIP. Because in IT, IT has a projection for the five years, so we can all look at '27, see what the projection is and discuss IT. I think IT is a perfectly useful time to do that. I wanted to make a plug for that. Ill plug IT also at the end. I want to make sure its on peoples radar, that is next Tuesday night.
Alan Clendenin
12:03:12PM Councilman Miranda.
Charlie Miranda
12:03:12PM Since the convention center has been brought up, little history About That Place, when IT was built, IT was built without a convention hotel near IT. Now, thats like having a swimming pool without water. So what happens here is when these things come about, you say, well, what in the world happened? We were losing our -- on that stuff. Until Mayor Greco worked a deal with the Mayor why not, werent in the top 100. That hotel, the Marriott, not the waterside, the one facing north, just southeast of the convention center. That hotel, the original Marriott downtown brought in, spurred the development of other hotels coming about. We are not an a class convention center. Doesnt mean that were bad. IT talks about square footage. We are a b, about 220,000 or so square foot. Cant compete with chicago or las vegas. They have a. Million, million and a half square foot each one. What happens here, this convention through individuals like visit Tampa Bay and others, We have become something We were not. Let me explain that real quick. We were cigar city. Manufacturers, I dont know, 15, 20 thousand people working in cigar factories. We were american can, aluminum cans, We made more cans than anybody in the world. None of those are here now. We have transformed from something that We were to more of a tourist area that We are. There was no aquarium. There was a zoo, but IT was a very minor, small zoo. IT wasnt like zoo Tampa is now. So We have an era, We transformed ourselves to something We were not and thats why you have the tourists in town. If you didnt have tourists, wouldnt have the CIT tax. Who would you charge? Yourself? Thats what im talking about. We have transformed the city. Its not easy to do that, at the same time growth population explosion and many other things that come about. So were doing the best We can. I am not against anything or everything, nor am I for everything. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Alan Clendenin
12:05:22PM Thank you, Mr. Miranda. Councilman Carlson.
Bill Carlson
12:05:26PM Remind Mr. Miranda, not only did we have the Cigar Industry, more than 200 years, we had horse racing in Tampa.
Charlie Miranda
12:05:34PM Thats how I made a good living.
Alan Clendenin
12:05:36PM Legal or illegal. Lets move on.
Michael Perry
12:05:38PM Mike can I have the presentation back up? Mr. Rogero will be back after he gets done with a quick break. I think thats where we left off. This is the future, current and potential principal. Dennis went through this. You see the big spike in '29, once we pay off the Solid Waste, the bank note that we took out for the waste to energy plant. We sort of smooth out in the out years, going out to 2063. 2063 is 30 years after the last year of the projected cash flow. Now, I will tell you that, hey, this is just a projection. We sat down with Contract Admin, and we said, what can we physically do? Part of the reason we had in here to go over the CIP. Is reinforce the debt schedule here. With that, ill go quick over stormwater financing. At this time, there are no future stormwater debt being considered at this time. Again, you can see that in 2016, we established the stormwater improvement program, about a quarter billion dollars. IT levied a non-ad valorem assessment -- I always get the two northern roads -- now im blanking on the two northern roads. Fowler. Thank you. So all property -- generally all property south of fowler, exclude some like MacDill Air Force Base and Tampa international airport. We have three debt services out there. Three bond deals we issued in 2018, 2021, and 2023. And all the debt will be paid off by 2046, which is when the service assessment is scheduled to end. Like I said from the very beginning, we do not anticipate any more stormwater debt. You can see level payment for the stormwater program at about 11 to 12 million dollars annually. With that, ill call up Will Reed from Ford And Associates to talk about water financing and the pipes program. My name is Will Reed with Ford And Associates. Municipal Advisor For Water And Wastewater Systems. We havent had any new debt since the last time we gave you the presentation last year. This will be pretty similar to what you saw before.
Alan Clendenin
12:08:30PM Breeze through IT.
Will reed
12:08:32PM Ill try and speak quickly. As you can see, the water and wastewater system comprise a bulk of the citys debt. Back in the 2010s, the City commissioned a comprehensive long-range study to understand exactly what our system would need and whether our existing rates could support those needs. The study confirmed we required a multibillion dollar capital improvement program and corresponding adjustments to the rate structure. The good news is that even after the increases, tampas water and wastewater rates remain significantly below peer systems throughout the state. Were funding the program through a prudent blend of pay as you go cash and bond proceeds. I do want to note that we are currently updating both the water and wastewater master plan to ensure that the system is sufficient to meet the citys ongoing needs. On the credit side, the water and wastewater system carries the highest possible triple a ratings from SP, moodys and Fitch, a feat matched by very few utilities in the country. The rating strength translates directly to lower borrowing costs and significant covenant flexibility for the City. To date completed three major issues under pipes program, 2020 as, 271 million, 2022 a and bs almost 300 million. 24 for 231 million. Looking forward, as the commission is aware, we identified the next round of financing needs to keep the system reliable and resilient. These include a $20 million state revolving fund loan that well discuss in a moment and five additional potential bond issues totaling roughly 764 million spread across the next several years. These are already built in the current rate model. So no further rate pressure is anticipated beyond what the Council approved. I do want to highlight that these issues wont be issued until you need the money. The plan has tried to be conservative by anticipating more frequent issues than we have actually gone through and seen when that plan was Put In Place we expected an issue a year. Were only spending the money as fast as we can go through, not borrowing money before we need the money to go through and accomplish those projects. On the srf loan side, one of those near term tools is a state revolving loan. This item will come before the Council on Thursday. This will consist of authorization to submit an application, just the application, for a $20 million loan from the Florida Department of Environmental Protection under the drinking water facilities program. Srf loans are among the lowest cost financings available. They are low interest. Principal forgiveness opportunities and repayment that doesnt start until the project is complete. This loan in particular is going to be an upgrade to the permanent high capacity water interconnect between Tampa Bay Water, the bidirectional connection will allow US to push or pull waters needed, dramatically strengthening the regional resilience and mutual aid capabilities, which is important given what we have seen with recent hurricanes. One of the major reasons -- one of the major impetuses for the request is the loan comes with 50% forgiveness. City would borrow $20 million and repay 10. Its hard to pass up free money. Going through, as snapshot, as you can see, the citys water and wastewater debt is structured to provide level annual payments currently. This shows the principal roll-off. As you can see, IT is a steady predictable decline in principal outstanding each year through 2057 as we pay down the bonds and srf loans. No spikes and no surprises. This slide shows the future issuances that weve discussed earlier, and IT anticipates following the same structure providing with level overall debt structure. Going through here, this overlays those two charts, the existing debt and the future debt. As mentioned earlier, this is all in keeping with the long-range plan implemented in 2010s. The City planned the work and we continue to work with planning. Thank you.
Alan Clendenin
12:12:52PM Thank you. I have a question. This debt issuance anticipates building capacity for anticipated needs? For water?
Will reed
12:13:04PM Correct. The current master plan that was Put In Place in the 2010s is working to make sure that We can meet the needs of the city going forward. Were beginning work on a new master plan to go through and ensure that anything that has changed since then, were taking into account. Were trying to be proactive with what were doing. You can see that in the ratings achieved from moodys they acknowledge the fact that You are more proactive than many of your peers in make sure You have the capacity to handle your city.
Alan Clendenin
12:13:38PM Excellent. Thank you so much. Councilman Miranda.
Charlie Miranda
12:13:40PM Just very quickly, I believe the Water Department here, kudos -- we have about 38,000 water departments in the United States of America. I think Tampa is one of only five. You can correct me, if you will, if im wrong, that has a triple a bond rating.
Will reed
12:13:58PM Have to go back and see.
Charlie Miranda
12:13:59PM Not that many. Am I correct?
12:14:05PM Ill give you $5 for that. Thank you.
Will reed
12:14:08PM You should be very proud of really from Council on down. IT is very rare to be in this position, not just on your issuer ratings, but also the enterprise being --
Charlie Miranda
12:14:22PM And the quality of the water is perfecto.
Will reed
12:14:25PM I like IT.
Alan Clendenin
12:14:26PM Councilman Carlson, you had a question.
Bill Carlson
12:14:29PM Yeah, just real fast. Im very excited to hear that were going to have a Two Way hookup with Tampa Bay Water. Just a few years ago, the city was trying to change the state legislation to pull the City Of Tampa out of Tampa Bay Water. And its one of the best examples of regional cooperation in the world. Thank the administration for ending that discussion from before and working on a cooperative agreement. IT just helps everybody. Thank you.
Charlie Miranda
12:15:01PM When you look at that contract, that contract never ends. Its a contract that was accepted by the public without them knowing about IT, that contract ends in 2032 I believe, and theres no ever getting out of nothing because IT doesnt have a time. IT has a time, but if you have a debt, you cant get out. To me, unconstitutional. Youll always have a debt when you are in the Water Department. You got to be brain dead to feel you want to get out. Thats number one. Number two, Tampa is the least one that uses the water, not that its any bad water, its not. One that produces 82 million gallons a day, no other company other than Tampa Bay Water. Im not against Tampa Bay Water. Weve been their good partner and working a few things to do, so the Water Department and them talking about IT, thats for another day. I can tell you that they are useful to US -- we buy from them and they buy from US. We have no problems. Thank you very much.
Alan Clendenin
12:15:59PM Thank you. Lets talk Solid Waste. Councilwoman Hurtak loves talking about Solid Waste.
Luis Viera
12:16:10PM I have an appointment at one that I have to leave for.
Alan Clendenin
12:16:12PM We have a hard stop at one.
Dennis Rogero
12:16:17PM I do appreciate your patience. I did not anticipate IT would go this long.
Alan Clendenin
12:16:22PM I would love to tell you that IT is interesting.
Lynn Hurtak
12:16:26PM IT is. This is so cool.
Dennis Rogero
12:16:29PM That hurts.
Alan Clendenin
12:16:30PM Nerds. Nhl, Nfl, those are interesting.
Charlie Miranda
12:16:42PM Everything You mentioned there is about the wallet.
Alan Clendenin
12:16:54PM You are good to go. Molly Clark with Prag. In the next couple of slides, well talk about the outstanding debt of the Solid Waste system. Right now you have $65 million in outstanding debt. This is in the form of a draw on a variable rate line of credit from Bank Of America. In total, there are two short-term facilities outstanding on the Solid Waste system. There is a $120.5 Million loan. This was closed in June 2024. This loan is secured by non-ad valorem revenues. In June 24, at the same time this loan was closed, Council adopted new Solid Waste rates which went into effect in October of 2024. The reason this loan was done as non-ad valorem loan, at the same time, Solid Waste rates wouldnt have been sufficient to support the debt. So that loan is outstanding under the non-ad valorem pledge. The second piece, the Bank Of America line of credit is outstanding under the Solid Waste revenue pledge because that piece was not closed until January of 2025. Both of these we anticipate refinancing to a long-term Solid Waste revenue bond issue likely in late 2027, early 2028. This will take that short-term debt and refinance IT over a 30-year period backed only by the Solid Waste system rates. So looking at what we expect that to look like going forward, there is in fiscal '26, 27, 28, that is sort of the current couple of years going forward, just interest due on the existing non-ad valorem loan and the existing Bank Of America line of credit. Going forward in 2028, that would be the point at which these both are refinanced long-term Solid Waste revenue bonds, out through 2057, 30-year bond issue. With that, happy to take any questions on assumptions or otherwise related to the debt.
12:19:14PM Why wait to roll this together for long-term debt? Why the delay -- why is the -- are you anticipating the market conditions? Why wait until 2027-28?
Molly Clark
12:19:27PM There are project needs that I believe are still underway. And having the rates kind of seasoned, the rates became effective in October 2024. This gives the city a little bit of time to operate its Solid Waste system under those rates so that by the time We go to the public markets and were issuing long-term bonds, the Credit Rating Agencies will look at you, potential investors can look at the city, hey, this system is up and running, rates are good to go. Were covering what We estimate the debt service will look like, and that sort of helps investors, IT helps the Credit Rating Agencies understand what We are really looking at.
Alan Clendenin
12:20:09PM What a great explanation for somebody who has a hard time grasping these concepts. Thank you. I got that a hundred percent. Councilman Carlson.
Bill Carlson
12:20:17PM Comment from Mr. Rogero. You dont have to get up. But I think maybe we talked about this before in another iteration. I appreciate the transparency on this and I appreciate the time discussing IT. I think its necessary for The Public to look into IT. The Public is naturally concerned about debt. When they see numbers like that out of context, say, seems like a lot of money. The context that the Private Sector looks at is a Pnl. A lot of different names for that on the citys, on the government side. But IT would be helpful by Enterprise Fund when presenting this to show the context and also the ratios, kind of similar to what you showed the city overall. Like what is the debt to revenue ratio for Solid Waste and how does IT compare to other utilities and other markets and the same thing with water, wastewater, et cetera. Just so we can see the context of the revenues, because I think with that context, IT would help The Public understand IT, but also not be as scared by the numbers. Thank you.
Alan Clendenin
12:21:25PM Councilman Miranda.
Charlie Miranda
12:21:26PM Thank you very much. I just want to say this, that Solid Waste, produce enough energy for 15,000 homes every day. We were selling IT long time ago to TECO with a partnership working very good. But such a good deal two Former Council Members wanted to be heroes and so forth and so on, when IT went up to tallahassee for review, IT was such a good deal we had to cancel the deal and sell IT to Seminole Electric for less money because we were charging them for the transmission of the lines and the cost of buying the energy for them. And the government in tallahassee said too good of a deal for US. Which im fine with. However, when you look at these things and you hear this refuse To Energy Place, we had invested over 150 million or so I forget what IT was. Close to that figure, IT might not have been working today. The generator was so old that IT looked like IT had a crankcase to create the energy. The building was falling apart. You could see the skies when looking at the water, trying to fix the water, the garbage that was coming in. Everything was rotted out. And this -- IT was left for years. So were taking and putting in what wed been taking out in cash. We invested in that water, waste to energy. Invested in the Water Department. Invested to the reclaimed going out to clean the water out to the bay. I would say we made about 400 to $500 million or half a billion dollars in those three energies alone. If The Public understands that, and im sure they do, because when they flush the toilet, IT doesnt come back unless they have a problem under their house. Weve done what The Public wants. Made IT safe. And everything ive seen here, everyone says affordable. What else can we do? Stay on course and keep the things operational. These are enterprise funds that create their own money in a way. We sell and make money for The Public by using that refuse to energy and reducing the cost of our lives in the City Of Tampa. I want to thank everybody that works in those three divisions because they do one fantastic job.
Molly Clark
12:23:47PM To your point, just to sort of draw in the reimbursement resolution portion of todays presentation, if my memory serves correctly, I believe there was a reimbursement resolution Put In Place for the refurbishment of the waste to energy plant because the needs were urgent and the City paid for that out of pocket because financing takes a while to Get In Place. We had an RFP out On The Street and we were waiting to bring in financing but with the reimbursement Resolution In Place, the City was able to make sure that facility got maintained, upgraded and kept in working order until the financing came through. IT was sort of a perfect example of when and why a reimbursement resolution is appropriate and how IT works.
Alan Clendenin
12:24:33PM Thank you very much. Were still talking about wastewater and -- that capacity.
Dennis Rogero
12:24:44PM This last section is very brief. One of the reasons why im doing IT. Could I have the presentation up, please? All right. Financing capacity. Dennis Rogero, chief financial officer. Thank you. So that is the plan. Its been a long buildup, but we built IT up to everything were doing right now, everything that right now is planned to do. So what is the citys capacity? Where does that leave US? You see IT right here. Total capacity in the upper right, Governmental, little over $2 billion. And water, wastewater, about $1.7 Billion. Its actually increased just a little bit since the last time we shared this with you. Now, I do want to make very clear, even though we put IT on the slide, these will change for all of the reasons you see there. Got to maintain our current credit ratings. I think we are doing a fantastic job of that. Like to get that last triple a, but well keep at IT. Interest rates are going to change. Market availability of the debt is going to change. Paying off the existing debt, and its not an exclusive list. This is a point in time that we can give you as to our capacity. And IT is significant. And then as you see on the far right, weve got a combined potential capacity based on what weve already issued of $2.1 Billion. 136 In the Governmental and 800 million in the water, wastewater. I want to stress a couple of things. This is potential. Nobody to my knowledge is advocating issuing debt of this magnitude. But I also want to emphasize that -- and ive said IT before, but its worth reiterating, always worth reiterating, just because the City has the capacity to issue significantly more debt, does not mean the City can afford to issue significantly more debt. Affordability comes down to the Mayor and City Council, priorities, revenue forecasts, et cetera, et cetera. So im certainly not advocating that we borrow this funding, and im certainly not implying that we can afford this funding, but IT is a good barometer of where we are in terms of our debt story. And there you see IT in graphic form. The light blue to the far right of the key is the available debt capacity. So the City is in a very, very strong position in terms of potential future debt. But, again, its a great story, but its a point in time and I dont imagine were going to advocate issuing debt to this level. That ends the presentation, council. Thank you so much. I appreciate your patience.
Alan Clendenin
12:27:50PM I anticipate Councilman Miranda coming, sees how much debt capacity, probably propose $1.2 Billion debt for a new stadium for the Tampa Bay buccaneers. Is that correct?
Charlie Miranda
12:28:02PM I want more than that. [ laughter
Alan Clendenin
12:28:05PM Thats all You can have. Werent You paying attention? Thats all You can have.
Charlie Miranda
12:28:12PM [Inaudible]
Alan Clendenin
12:28:14PM One, I want to say thank you staff and all of our financial analysts, slash, market people that came to help US tonight -- or today to understand this. I make jokes about how boring IT is because IT is boring. IT is the tools we need to make the best decisions for the City Of Tampa and the residents who live here and for future growth. Im very much appreciative. I appreciate the detail of the data thats provided. IT definitely answered a substantial amount of my questions that ive had. Im sure ill have plenty more and lack of understanding of things. Thank you so much.
Luis Viera
12:28:58PM Motion to extend this conversation another hour.
Alan Clendenin
12:29:01PM Denied. Out of order. Now were going to move on -- any questions? Were good. Well move on to public comment. Again, reminder, public comment is just about the presentations youve heard today. The two items that weve heard today. Yes, maam. Start with your name. Youll have three minutes. My name is Michelle Mastrototaro. I have a concern on the wastewater and stormwater. I have a project that has not been addressed yet. Its funded, and they have not done IT yet. So I want to understand why that has not been done, if its been funded already, its not been done. And also, this stormwater issue right in front of my house, they put this small pipe in front of my house to the preserve, so all that water, the pipe is so small, I cant foresee, what are we doing here if they are all doing their job and they get triple as because Port Tampa has been neglected. I live in fear. Its not fair what they have done and I think someone needs to start holding people accountable for stuff. Because if you think about everything thats going on, everybody else is getting help. But Port Tampa has been just neglected.
12:30:54PM Just remember, We have to tie this to debt. Tie your comments to debt. Thats what were talking about today is bonding and debt. When is that going to be fixed?
12:31:09PM Thank you very much. Appreciate IT. Next speaker. Mayor of West Tampa. 6 and 7 been taken off the agenda. Did you all give a date?
Alan Clendenin
12:31:38PM Were talking about bonding -- you put together -- Joe Robinson, Tampa, Florida. Old scaglione house. Dennis Rogero for his staff, his presentation, of keeping the city in great financial order. Many cities as you know are going bankrupt that are spending money foolishly and spending -- we have a bonding capacity but he say he aint using IT because not fiscal responsibility. Being a fiscal conservative myself, Charlie. The CIT. The CCNA before this, the very first one, one of the things, being the CCNA expert in the room, being a licensed professional -- dealt with city over 40, 50 years, with CCNA, and helped the Legislature develop IT Down The Road and modify IT and keep updating IT. Let me say this, Mr. Mutterback, hes doing a great job since we got him in there. Clean up a lot of nonsense and a lot of corruption going down. Especially when you are selecting projects based on abstract, not just based on qualifications. Very subjective. Direct purchasing, something that the city does and needs to continue to do, because why, IT saves taxes. Sales tax that kind of tax on equipment purchases. Buy the equipment now, knowing you put IT in later, you avoid the escalation. You avoid the cost that will increase. We do IT all the time at school district. Its where you save money. The mayors executive order on CCNA had a very long involvement with IT, very heated discussion, as IT came up From Hanna Street. We got IT cleaned up. Thank you, Administration. Its where IT needs to be. Cant continue to move something along without going back and looking at IT. Took a lot of while, a lot of input. I thank them for cleaning that up on CCNA selection process. Succession planning and the construction department, very crucial. We have senior people that are going to be retiring, and I understand they are now doing the succession for that. Mr. Mutterback's office. Finally, I really appreciate you all putting 6 and 7 Down The Road. I come here stacked. Since ive been authorized, ill move on. Thank you for your time.
12:34:39PM Thank you, Mr. Robinson. Start with your name. Youll have three minutes. Bishop Michelle B. Patty. First of all, I like to say thank you to Councilman Miranda pointing out the fact that we, when youre talking about money and building things and now no one foreseen the tariffs being imposed. How much things are going to be. Fair Oaks was mentioned because I myself along with Jay Johnson are the ones that pointed out that that Center need to be dealt with. Mr. Joe Robinson, he pointed out the fact that we were in a death trap. Now that Center became a political pawn between some council members, the staff, and the Mayor. Some of you all tried to stop that from going forth, and we want to thank the late councilwoman Gwen Henderson, all of you who voted to move that project along. No one is talking about all the money that the city saved by continuing on with the project. We see with the tariff tax, this project maybe cost two to three times more because the tariffs are affecting the building material, steel, wood, nails, everything. So when we are talking about the contractors, I dont know, and I would like to know if the contractors are going to be impacted because of the tariff tax. Is there going to be more money spent if the contract over there talking about skanska, if they have to eat the difference because things have gone up. Like to thank Councilwoman Young, good friend Doreen Copeland Miller. She passed away fighting for streets, sidewalks to be built. She had difficulties walking and there are a lot of people in East Tampa that ride on these scooters, that there is no sidewalk. They are in the middle of the streets. People have been hit. What were looking at are underserved communities. I guess we need to know when the dollars are going to trickle to that community that has not received their dollars. I would definitely like to thank the staff and everyone. IT was long but IT was very enlightening. I learned a lot sitting here today about the budget and whats going on with the budget and how were going to move forward to getting things done here in the City Of Tampa. So once again, when were talking about projects, lets not let politics, personal things interfere with doing whats in the best interest of the community because as we see things go up, not daily, but hourly, go by the filling station, IT was one price. By the time you go this evening, IT is a whole other price. Thank you all so much.
12:37:40PM Thank you, Bishop. We heard from the self-anointed mayor of West Tampa. Now the Self-Anointed Mayor Of South Of Gandy. Very, very simple questions and IT takes like three hours to answer the questions and hundred pages of powerpoints. Pretty simple math problems in my mind. But hey. Got a lot of information. This is one of my favorite work sheets. This Capital Improvement Projects. Now, here is the think about the work sheet. If you google IT, doesnt come up. If you google IT, doesnt come up. What comes up when you look up Capital Improvement Projects is this website right here. This website right here obviously doesnt have all the stuff thats on the spreadsheet. So when people want to learn -- I mean, mr. -- asked me during the meeting, what is CIP. We had a long conversation about Capital Improvement Projects, took about 15 minutes, whats CIP.? So weve gotten a lot of information today. I for one, I know that you guys, you cannot digest all this. IT was not in onbase, and IT should be given to folks beforehand, not the day of. IT needs to be out there so people can digest IT and look at IT. If you want to call this the capital improvements page, then IT should include all of this information because people are looking for this information. People do look at this stuff. But its still not there. I had to pull IT from an e-mail that Hagar sent to me a couple of months ago. Its not there. If I want to look for capital improvement project, I should see all this information there. In my opinion, capital improvement should be building a building, digging holes in the ground and improving our community, and these electrical upgrades and stuff, yes, I realize they are expensive, maybe they need to have their own category, but when were talking about doing maintenance on what we already have, thats not capital improvements as a rule. I dont know exactly what the words are. But I just know that I want to see all of this put into this page so that everybody can see that. Either that, or when you google capital improvements for the City Of Tampa, I want this page to come up so that people can actually read all the information. Im just asking for all the information to be together In One Place that is accessible to the citizens of Tampa. Thank you.
12:40:23PM Thank you. Stephanie, you did not say your name.
12:40:34PM Who are you today? So that concludes our business for this workshop. We goat to talk about new business. Lets start on the other end. Councilman Miranda.
Charlie Miranda
12:40:50PM Weve had a good meeting. I think We discussed everything We had to discuss.
Alan Clendenin
12:40:54PM Councilman Maniscalco.
Guido Maniscalco
12:40:55PM Couple of items. Motion that the emergency management and City Planning staff be present to make a ten minute presentation on April 16, 2026 on the completed City Of Tampa post-disaster redevelopment plan that will also include additional information in preparation for hurricane season. We already checked the calendar.
Alan Clendenin
12:41:15PM We have a motion from Councilman Maniscalco. Second from Councilman Miranda. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Ayes have IT. That was ten minutes.
Guido Maniscalco
12:41:23PM Last item is for a CRA meeting, but IT is a City Council thing. Its an e-mail from Vince Pardo. He was with the City Of Tampa for years, if you all remember him. He is involved in Tampa sister cities, and they anticipate that the Mayor Of Chonchona, sicily. Now, remember, our sister city is really the region. Agrigento is the province, and the city is there. He will be in Tampa for italian heritage celebration and other meetings the week of April 8. He is meeting with Mayor Castor. Mayor Castor has a time slot of between 9 am. And 9:30 on the morning of Thursday, April 9. Would IT be okay if one of two -- I would like them to come in here because they are coming from the other side of the world, that they come in at around 9:30 and have like a five, ten minute brief introduction?
Alan Clendenin
12:42:18PM IT is a CRA meeting. Was there any objection to inviting the dignitary and Mayor Castor to our CRA meeting between 9 and 9:30 on April 9?
Guido Maniscalco
12:42:31PM Not Mayor Castor. He is meeting with the mayor before. Her time slot is between 9 and 9:30.
Alan Clendenin
12:42:39PM Any objection?
Bill Carlson
12:42:40PM No. I think we should suggest five minutes. If He wants to take more, He can.
Alan Clendenin
12:42:45PM 930 am.
Bill Carlson
12:42:49PM Does Guido have a conflict since he is part Sicilian?
Guido Maniscalco
12:42:54PM No, but I might speak italian. I dont know if the closed captioning will get IT.
Alan Clendenin
12:42:59PM IT is the CRA, but kind of -- well get unanimous consent. Well invite him. Anything else?
Guido Maniscalco
12:43:09PM No, thats IT.
Martin Shelby
12:43:11PM I believe your CRA is meeting in March. You can affirm that and put IT on your CRA agenda for April. But thats how You keep things separate.
Guido Maniscalco
12:43:23PM I can do that.
Martin Shelby
12:43:24PM As long as You have a consensus now.
Alan Clendenin
12:43:27PM They have got to extend the invitation. Not like well have an opportunity to rescind IT. Councilwoman Hurtak.
Lynn Hurtak
12:43:32PM Im doing one of my very rare things. I move to present a resolution to Zoo Tampa on April 16 in council chambers honoring the life and legacy of Lucy, the Florida panther ambassador.
Alan Clendenin
12:43:49PM Are we going to cry?
Luis Viera
12:43:51PM May I say something? I think I May have been the first council member to give a commendation to an animal. Shadow, who was a bomb sniffing dog in Afghanistan. We did IT at station 23. Yeah, I think I was the first one. Well done. Thats awesome.
Lynn Hurtak
12:44:09PM Yes. Well, I serve on Zoo Tampa board now. Thats my motion.
Alan Clendenin
12:44:15PM We have a motion from Councilwoman Hurtak. Second from Councilman Viera I believe IT was.
The Clerk
12:44:22PM [Inaudible]
Lynn Hurtak
12:44:24PM Yes. Its a resolution.
Alan Clendenin
12:44:31PM Presenting a commendation.
Martin Shelby
12:44:33PM Under presentations and commendations.
Lynn Hurtak
12:44:35PM Yes.
Martin Shelby
12:44:37PM But in the form of a resolution. I believe thats what you are wanting.
Lynn Hurtak
12:44:41PM Yes. That is specifically what they asked for.
Martin Shelby
12:44:44PM Ultimately I suspect You can in a presentation, but before You move -- before You do that, procedurally, youll have to have the resolution. Ill prepare the resolution for You. Youll have IT in advance. The Clerk will have IT. IT will be on the agenda, and youll have to take public comment if there is any and then move the resolution.
Lynn Hurtak
12:45:03PM Perfect. I can do that.
Alan Clendenin
12:45:05PM Under commendations.
Lynn Hurtak
12:45:06PM Yes, under commendations.
Luis Viera
12:45:08PM [Inaudible] laughter
Alan Clendenin
12:45:12PM I think more appropriate, Councilman Viera, if you said you would like to award all the animals at Zoo Tampa. One at a time.
Martin Shelby
12:45:21PM IT is April 16 for the presentation of a resolution.
Lynn Hurtak
12:45:24PM Correct.
Alan Clendenin
12:45:25PM Correct. Perfect synopsis. We have a motion from Councilwoman Hurtak. A second from Councilman Viera. All in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have IT.
Lynn Hurtak
12:45:32PM I do also want to again plug the budget discussion for FY '27. This is the first time weve done this. So IT is March 3 at 5:01 here in City Council chambers. I have a couple more motions. So I move to have the Downtown Partnership present an update on the progress that has been made to bring large format digital signs to the central business district. This update should include the draft design standards on April 7, 2026.
Alan Clendenin
12:46:06PM Are they ready to go?
Lynn Hurtak
12:46:09PM I said an update. I didnt ask for complete. Just an update.
Alan Clendenin
12:46:14PM We have a motion from Councilwoman Hurtak. A second from Councilman Viera. Mr. Shelby.
Martin Shelby
12:46:18PM Martin Shelby, City Council attorney. Just bringing again the date is.
Lynn Hurtak
12:46:24PM April 7.
Martin Shelby
12:46:24PM April 7. Going to that date, where on the agenda would IT be -- staff reports and unfinished business. April 7 is a Tuesday. I was going to address that this evening with regard to the 7th of April. That is a special called meeting and IT will be an additional staff report. Had the opportunity to talk with the deputy city clerk Suling Lucas and the Chief Of Staff regarding the backstory with creating something which is a special called, regular meeting. Ill meet with Council Members individually. If we can talk before tonight. And maybe we could bring IT up next week. Cow hold that motion till tonight instead of having IT on the 7th?
Alan Clendenin
12:47:13PM I have a motion and I have a second. We need to move forward. If something changes, we change. I have a motion and second. All in favor, Aye. Opposed? Ayes have IT.
Lynn Hurtak
12:47:24PM And then this is a companion. I move to have the Legal Department meet with each Council Member to discuss items that May need to be included in the large format digital sign ordinance and be prepared to have a public discussion with City Council at that April 7 meeting under staff reports to answer process and guideline questions required to draft an ordinance. I have already spoken to Ms. Johnson Velez. This is what she requested.
Alan Clendenin
12:47:52PM Friendly amendment. I know this is the plan anyway because of conversations im having. But to include the discussion of the settlement agreement between --
Lynn Hurtak
12:48:05PM Yes, yes. Agreed. Yes, I will take that friendly amendment. To include the settlement discussions and explanations on the settlement agreement.
Alan Clendenin
12:48:14PM Motion from Councilwoman Hurtak. A second from Councilman Viera. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Ayes have IT.
Lynn Hurtak
12:48:21PM That Way I can cancel my motion for cm 25-18955, formerly file cm 25-13045, about Staff to provide a report on the cities that have executed signed ordinances, outline key points for these ordinances about -- and the one-on-one updates. Basically, IT is changing the motion into these two motions. Take out the old motion about large digital format signs and put IT in the new one.
Alan Clendenin
12:49:05PM Same date?
Lynn Hurtak
12:49:08PM We were supposed to move IT -- yes. Thats rescheduled to the special call meeting on April 7. Were basically replacing one motion with another.
Alan Clendenin
12:49:16PM Gotcha.
Lynn Hurtak
12:49:16PM Thats why I read all those numbers.
Alan Clendenin
12:49:19PM Motion to remove that one agenda item because we already passed the other one. Motion to remove that one motion from the April 7 special call meeting from Councilwoman Hurtak. Is there a second? We have a second from Councilman Viera. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Ayes have IT.
Lynn Hurtak
12:49:35PM My last one, I made a motion last week --
Alan Clendenin
12:49:40PM Viera.
Lynn Hurtak
12:49:42PM I made a motion last week to tentatively continue the Council salary discussion to August 2026 workshop. We didnt have a calendar at that time. Now we have a calendar. There is no workshop in August. I move to amend my motion to schedule the salary discussion file cm 24-4658 to the September 24th, 2026 workshop. Second from Councilman Viera. Ayes have IT. I think its been two years now.
12:50:11PM Hence the 2024. Thats IT.
Alan Clendenin
12:50:15PM Councilwoman young, any new business?
Naya Young
12:50:19PM Ill do IT tonight.
Luis Viera
12:50:21PM Really quick. First, I wanted to wish my aide Sebastian Leon very happy birthday.
Alan Clendenin
12:50:28PM Happy birthday to You
Luis Viera
12:50:30PM Fine Young Man. He definitely should not be here. So God bless him. A couple of quick motions. I wanted to on April 2nd have a staff report on the prospects of finishing up the resurfacing or repaving job for 30th, which is right next to district 2 Tampa Police and station 13. Written.
Alan Clendenin
12:50:53PM We have a motion for written report from Councilman Viera. Second from Councilman Maniscalco. Discussion? All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Ayes have IT.
Luis Viera
12:51:00PM I was asked by the Red Star Foundation -- they are an organization that advocates for veterans who die by suicide -- that is Red Star to give a Tampa City Council commendation to Joe Pequeno, P-E-Q-U-E-N-O, who is a medal of honor recipient and to Red Star Foundation, which ill be giving on Saturday evening, if I May.
Alan Clendenin
12:51:20PM Motion for off-site commendation from Councilman Viera. Second from Councilman Maniscalco. All those in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have IT.
Luis Viera
12:51:28PM Really quick, I motion for the quarterly in-person fire station 24 report to be first after lunch on March 26. Its on the agenda. Just well have a lot of folks here for that.
Alan Clendenin
12:51:39PM Motion from Councilman Viera. Second from Councilman Maniscalco.
Martin Shelby
12:51:45PM With regard to the setting of first after lunch, You do sometimes most likely have a 1:30 public hearing. What -- how do You wish to handle IT?
Luis Viera
12:51:57PM As expedited as possible.
Martin Shelby
12:52:01PM First after lunch -- but the hearing, You would prefer the hearing take preference.
Luis Viera
12:52:11PM In other words, that is my motion. If he want to take a look at that -- if we want to take a look at that day and time and push IT off 30 minutes --
Alan Clendenin
12:52:21PM You know I love You and love my union 754, the problem, im looking at the schedule, this is March 26 youre talking about.
Luis Viera
12:52:29PM Yes, Sir.
Alan Clendenin
12:52:30PM That agenda is going to be a repeat of last --
Luis Viera
12:52:34PM How about this, Sir, if I May, so I wont make IT as a motion. Ill work with the Stakeholders because its not the Union. Its more the Contractors are going to be here. Since they are going to be here in person, what time is good for them and then propose that via memo if that suffice.
Alan Clendenin
12:52:51PM Or do IT real time on the 26 so we dont get tied up like the last time. Going here, going there. That agenda was a nightmare because of some of those movements we made.
Martin Shelby
12:53:02PM Martin Shelby, sorry to interrupt. If IT is the March 26, you are at your limit for staff reports and unfinished business.
Luis Viera
12:53:10PM This is not an additional one. Again, this is one on there.
Alan Clendenin
12:53:14PM Its already there. As you can see, I anticipate that meeting is going to be tough.
Luis Viera
12:53:20PM Since there is a challenge on that I respect that.
Alan Clendenin
12:53:23PM I think generally this Council gives a lot of deference to folks who show up. Find a sweet spot, make that work. I heard You say youll rescind the motion.
Luis Viera
12:53:35PM Yes, sir. Hereby rescind. These are not motions. One is, if you guys remember, I had done a motion for an ordinance on a public safety master plan that would be done mandatory every year and where fire -- strike that Fire And Police Unions would work with the Administration having a joint public safety master plan. Weve had so many challenges over the last few years with this idea, not going to get into the different challenges, but ive been told by Legal that essentially, according to their interpretation, that May very well violate the charter. I dont hundred percent agree with IT, with what I see. And we can talk about that later. But one thing I am talking to folks about, not going to motion for IT today, since IT violates the charter, which I dont think IT does, but we can talk about that later, if IT is found to violate the charter, amend the charter and take IT to the Charter Review Committee, because I do think that having something for public safety in the charter for mandatory, year by year reviews is something that makes sense. Just to let you all know because I cant talk about IT outside of this, well be looking at that. Lastly, this week is the last day of my legislative assistant Brannon Jordan Lazo, who doesnt want anything here. Its not because, its Just The Way She is. Such a good person. Ive had Brannon as my legislative assistant for eight years. She is a wonderful employee. Good woman of integrity and decency and warmth and just compassion and empathy and hard worker and amazing professional, not just my legislative assistant, my dear friend and my sister. Were very, very close, and weve been through some pickles together and everything which is kind of funny. Shes been there for me through tough times in my life. I just appreciate Her so much. One of the kindest, dearest people I know. So honored to work with Her and the public, especially District 7-Point everybody out there knows Her and shes family to a lot of people, especially people after milton and in Forest Hills and North Tampa. They know Brannon well. She is just a good person. Take aside everything else, She is just a good person. She will be missed. She is family. Shes going to be missed. She is a good person. We just send Her and Her wonderful family our best. Just God bless you.
Alan Clendenin
12:56:03PM I think IT has to be disclosed why shes not out here, She absolutely insisted She didnt want to have anybody do all of this for her. Ive had the privilege of knowing her for a long time. Long before my life on City Council. Shes also just a brilliant person. Just absolutely so smart and so charming and so much capability and capacity for just about everything She tackles. Ive known her to be that person long before City Council. How about we give her a standing ovation? [ applause thank you, Councilman Viera, for bringing that to our attention. Councilman Carlson.
Bill Carlson
12:56:49PM Thank you, Brannon, for everything you have done. Youve been fantastic to work with. The issue that Council Member Hurtak brought up about the digital signs, I think she said before she is partly doing IT in honor of Council Member Henderson who was working on this. IT would be before she passed. And this was not an idea that I created, but I was supporting her. I think my colleagues were supporting her. She seemed to be very stressed out about that in the weeks leading up to her passing, both frustrated with the Administration and frustrated with outside folks. One of them, which I mentioned before, been reported to me, representative of the lightning has been allegedly playing hard ball politics regarding this issue. I didnt understand why because how would small digital signs in one part of downtown affect the lightning? But that caused me to put item number 8 on the agenda today. And in the report on item number 8, IT talks about how IT was legally let. However, as I mentioned earlier, I did ask the city attorney to weigh in on whether the code had been followed. I want to make a motion and second to receive and file the e-mail I got from him which ill pass out to everybody. I just want to read IT for the record also and in my motion, I want to put IT in onbase. He says, IT is my opinion that benchmark signs were legally permitted, however, the approval provided they had to comply with the city sign code which prohibits activation movement. A couple of weeks ago I spoke with the attorney for the arena and he confirmed they were in the process of complying with the codes prohibition on activation movement. I subsequently contacted Abbye and confirmed that Code Enforcement would review the status of the signs. I dont have anything against the lightning having signs and its kind of cool to have IT out there, but I just wish they would call off their folks who are allegedly trying to stop other people from getting signs. And I would just make a motion to receive and file this letter and to add IT to number 8 and then also put IT on onbase around number 8, please.
Martin Shelby
12:59:03PM I want to make sure I didnt mishear that. The sentence is, as to the opinion, could you restate that, please, clearly?
Bill Carlson
12:59:17PM The whole opinion?
Martin Shelby
12:59:19PM The sentence that says -- IT is in my opinion.
Bill Carlson
12:59:22PM IT is in my opinion the benchmark signs were legally permitted.
Martin Shelby
12:59:27PM Legally permitted.
Bill Carlson
12:59:28PM However. The legally permitted was in the report under item 8. However, they are not meeting code, and Code Enforcement is going to go out and look at IT because they have moving images. Maybe other things that dont fit the code. So they May have to come before US at some point to fix that. Again, I dont have anything against the lightning having a sign, but they shouldnt have representatives going out trying to stop other people from having signs. I made a motion to receive and file to add to number 8 and to onbase.
Alan Clendenin
1:00:00PM Onbase is complied. Once IT is received and filed IT would get uploaded.
Bill Carlson
1:00:04PM Want to make sure the public can see IT.
Alan Clendenin
1:00:07PM Motion to receive and file from Councilman Carlson. Second from Councilwoman Hurtak. For discussion, Councilwoman Hurtak.
Lynn Hurtak
1:00:12PM I want to say thank you. I have actually reached out to Abbye multiple times about this, and she hasnt done anything about IT every time I mention IT. Better luck to you.
Alan Clendenin
1:00:23PM All those in favor say aye.
Guido Maniscalco
1:00:25PM Move to receive and file.
Alan Clendenin
1:00:27PM In an attempt to continue to improve our scheduling process, im not going to make the motion now but maybe make IT tonight or next week, on our agendas on continued reports, we have a lot of hold-overs, that we have quarterly reports and whatnot. Like to say no continuing report last more than 12 months. Always can reintroduce IT. Anything on the agenda more than 12 months automatically purged. Current Councilperson wants to reintroduce that for recurring report they can bring that up in business. And then I also want to encourage everyone, once again, remember, every hour that Staff is spending doing these things, that is an hour they are not doing their regular full-time job or something else that needs to be done. If they could please be very diligent about requesting Staff reports and then reference our time in Council Chambers so we avoid these hellacious meetings. Because a substantial amount of our time is spent on Staff discussion. If they could, one, restrict whatever presentation in their motion to exactly what they want that can be done in ten minutes in a Staff report, verbal Staff report. We already have restrictions on how many. But also if something could be done written instead of verbal, I would appreciate that as well. This is going to be a continuing discussion of trying to make these meetings more efficient for everybody concerned, but, again, im not making a motion right now, but I want you all to be thinking about that and ill bring IT up another time during business. Councilwoman Hurtak.
Lynn Hurtak
1:02:06PM I agree. I would also just ask people, do I need to make a motion or can I just pick up the phone?
Alan Clendenin
1:02:15PM 100%.
Lynn Hurtak
1:02:16PM Its a big issue. I really appreciate the conversation we had about this about a year ago because thats what I started to do. I really looked at everything and then Kelly and I really think before making a motion, were like, can we pick up the phone. If we can pick up the phone and still dont get an answer and more involved and we think you all need to be involved, then ill make a motion. But im working really hard to just have phone calls. I recommend IT. IT works great.
Guido Maniscalco
1:02:45PM That is the reason im so quiet. I pick up the phone, call, thank you very much. Everybody is busy. I want to be respectful of that.
Alan Clendenin
1:02:53PM IT is an ongoing effort to try to wrangle -- things spiral out. Try to pull IT back in and clean things up. I May make the motion about recurring staff reports tonight and then move forward. I dont think this is ever going to be an ending conversation. Its going to be -- I always have to house-keep, keep up with constantly. Mr. Shelby, did you want to say something?
Martin Shelby
1:03:17PM In line with that, Mr. Chairman, with regard to your April 7 meeting -- and ill bring this back tonight if you would consider IT, please -- is for the sake of simplicity, instead of calling IT a special call regular session, all those items that are now listed in staff reports and unfinished business, rather than deal with all the logistics of putting together a consent docket or creating a whole new agenda, when I come back tonight, please consider renaming that a special call workshop and making those workshop items.
Alan Clendenin
1:03:54PM Lets think about IT. I dont object to the renaming of IT and repurposing for that specific reason. I think I would like to find out from anybody, is there any business -- if there isnt any, then, yeah, why not.
Lynn Hurtak
1:04:10PM Lets look at our calendars.
Alan Clendenin
1:04:12PM We have a motion to receive and file from Councilman Carlson. Second from Councilman Maniscalco. Ayes have IT. Four minutes later. Were adjourned. See you at 5:01 pm. [ sounding gavel disclaimer: this file represents an unedited version of realtime captioning which should neither be relied upon for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim transcript. Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the proceedings May need to hire a court reporter. © - City Of Tampa (813) 274-8211