City Council — November 6, 2025 FINAL

Alan Clendenin

9:06:06AM Good morning. I call this meeting to order. First, I would like to welcome our newest Councilwoman, Naya Young. [ applause ] I already told her she can only be the second prettiest person on council behind me. She has the bar set. Councilman Miranda, would you like to do the invocation?

Charlie Miranda

9:06:37AM Have you had your eyes checked lately? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is my pleasure today to introduce Jason sowell. He's the founder and CEO of current initiatives, also one of the chaplains for the Tampa Police Department. Jason sowell has worked in the pastoral ministry in the nonprofit sector in Tampa more than 20 years as church pastor, law enforcement chaplain, and nonprofit founder. He has led his Tampa-Based nonprofit organization, current initiate, since 2008 with a mission of hope to local communities through the laundry project, hope for homes project, and affordable Christmas initiative. He's been serving as the chaplain in the City of Tampa since 2016. Mr. Sowell, please rise for the prayer and pledge of allegiance, after the prayer, I'm sorry. After the prayer. My mistake. Let's bow our heads together. Heavenly father, thank you so much for a beautiful day that we can live and represent this great city. Thank you for these council members that lead us. We ask that you would give them wisdom and strength as they lead us forward into the future of our city and represent our citizens, our communities well. May we be a city of hope and peace and justice and an example to the rest of our country of what it means to look to the future and lead well and represent well. We thank you for the Police Department and our officer of the month and how they serve us and protect us. And we ask your wisdom and blessing on them as they sacrifice every day to protect and serve our communities. We love you. Thank you for loving us for who we are. Thank you for giving us this place to call home. In Jesus name we ask these things. Amen.

Alan Clendenin

9:08:33AM Councilman Miranda, would you lead us in the pledge? [Pledge of allegiance] very good. Roll call, please.

Charlie Miranda

9:08:55AM Here.

Guido Maniscalco

9:08:56AM Here. Young?

Naya Young

9:09:00AM Here.

Luis Viera

9:09:00AM Here.

Bill Carlson

9:09:01AM Here.

Alan Clendenin

9:09:03AM Here.

The clerk

9:09:05AM We have a quorum.

Alan Clendenin

9:09:06AM Councilwoman Hurtak is in the building. She had some work to accomplish. That's why I held the meeting for a little bit. She should be entering any moment. She's back in her office. I would like a motion to adopt the minutes of the October 23, 2025 and workshop and evening sessions held October 30, 2025. Motion from Councilman Miranda. Second from Councilman Maniscalco. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Ayes have it with Councilwoman Hurtak voting aye as well. Let's go to the agenda review. We had a memo that item number 19 is being removed because it was a duplication. We have a motion from Councilman Maniscalco to remove item 19, a second from Councilman Miranda. All in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. I have a memo from Councilwoman Hurtak to pull items 23 and 26 for discussion.

Lynn Hurtak

9:10:00AM I would like the items to be heard together, please.

Alan Clendenin

9:10:03AM We have a motion to pull for discussion and heard together from Councilwoman Hurtak. A second from Councilman Miranda. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. We need to have a motion to pull item 25 for discussion and hear it with staff report 63. We have a motion from Councilman Maniscalco. Second from Councilman Miranda. All those in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. Thank you. Staff reports, unless anybody has anything else on the consent agenda? There is no administrative update still, chief? Still no administrative update. 58, do we need staff? Give you a minute to look.

Lynn Hurtak

9:10:50AM I'm good with this, but I do want to say that I think -- I mean, I got a briefing on this. I'm sure other people did, too. I've told them I really want an update after a year. Like, what are we gaining from this? Like, is it working? I was told if it's not working, we don't have to continue with it. So expect a motion about that later.

Alan Clendenin

9:11:15AM Very good. So no staff for 58. 59? No staff for 59. 60. No staff for 60. 61?

Luis Viera

9:11:31AM I'm fine with Chief Bercaw's written report on it. I'm going to have some further discussions with him on the issue of -- I don't think you can call it a substation, but some sort of physical presence in the people's republic of New Tampa. I think we need it out there and everything. But for purposes of time, I'm going to deal with this issue later. He and I are having a meeting on it. I'll accept the written report.

Alan Clendenin

9:11:58AM One election in New York and now you are the people's republic of Tampa. No staff on 61. 62.

Luis Viera

9:12:08AM Yes, sir. 62, yes, absolutely. Eric Kaiser is coming for that report and we look forward to hearing from him. He is a fine young man.

Alan Clendenin

9:12:18AM Okay. We already discussed 63. We're going to have staff and hear item 23 with that -- I'm sorry, 25. 64?

Charlie Miranda

9:12:35AM Yes. Really, this has been going on for about a year. It will take one or two minutes. I would say yes.

Alan Clendenin

9:12:45AM Staff for 64.

Lynn Hurtak

9:12:49AM I talked to Abbye about the land development code updates. Since we have talked about the fact that she's not going to be able to come to us until February, after we have done the comp plan, she's asking to hold these to start again in the new year.

Alan Clendenin

9:13:03AM I heard a motion from Councilman Maniscalco to continue item 65 to January 20, 2026. Second -- January -- gosh. What is with my reading? I need to put the glasses on. January 8, 2026. Second from Councilwoman Hurtak. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. 66. Second from Councilman Maniscalco. All in favor aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. I missed one. I need to -- we need to remove or continue -- I had conflicting information on 28.

Lynn Hurtak

9:13:48AM So moved. Move number 28, file deo 25-1697.

Alan Clendenin

9:13:56AM We have a motion from Councilwoman Hurtak to remove item 28. Second from Councilman Maniscalco. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. Thank you very much. We have a motion to approve the agenda from Councilman Maniscalco. A second from Councilman Miranda. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. Mr. Shelby?

Martin Shelby

9:14:14AM Mr. Chairman, some information very recently has come to my attention that will cause an issue with council taking action today on number 2, the appointment to the Hillsborough city-county Planning Commission. We can take it up when that item is up. What I'm going to suggest, those who are here to speak to it, can speak to it. I believe after talking to the clerk, it will ultimately have to be continued to the next regular meeting. But I can talk about it.

Alan Clendenin

9:14:41AM Why don't we talk about it right now?

Martin Shelby

9:14:44AM Right now?

Alan Clendenin

9:14:45AM Yes. Because people are here --

Martin Shelby

9:14:48AM Well, there are some issues that are not resolved with regard to city residency, which isn't reflected in the applications necessarily. And there are also some issues with regard to not having completed the background checks, which are required for all applicants for all positions in the city. So whereas the question is whether council would make an appointment to somebody who has yet to have completed the background check. I need to work through that because on your memo that you received from the clerk's office, there is an issue that says pending, but it has -- it goes further than that. There is a reason why we do those now as a matter of course for all positions and whether it's appropriate that you even have them on the ballot at this point without the background check being completed. I would like to resolve that. The third thing on the memo is it shows Mr. Kugler's appointment continues through 2029. That right now is incorrect. Mr. Kugler's appointment actually, from council's motion, expired on the 30th of September. And council has not taken action for his next term and that will be coming to you on the next regular agenda.

Alan Clendenin

9:16:05AM That issue is not germane to the agenda for today.

Martin Shelby

9:16:10AM It very well might be because what you have is you have ten applicants for one position. Or you have seven applicants for one position, depending on what the determination is going to be as to going forward with somebody who does not have background check done.

Alan Clendenin

9:16:26AM I get that part. The Kugler part.

Martin Shelby

9:16:28AM The Kugler part is that council has not taken action on that appointment specifically. So the truth of the matter is that if council -- I'm not saying to say anything personal to Mr. Kugler and his abilities, but you have ten applicants or seven applicants for one position now. And if for whatever reason you need to have applicants for that position, those applicants are already pending. I would like to be able to take care of the issue. There is a long story behind Mr. Kugler, a breakdown of communication with regarding getting the Planning Commission the resolution in a timely fashion. And that's another discussion that we can have, preferably off the record.

Alan Clendenin

9:17:10AM Based on the advice from counsel to continue item 2 to a date to be determined.

Martin Shelby

9:17:16AM Here's what I'm suggesting, council, if what you'd like to do is have people here to speak to it, you can hear them and have them be interviewed. They have taken the time to do that. You can take personal notes. As long as you don't share them or distribute them, they are your personal notes to refresh your recollection when the time comes when it comes back on the agenda so they don't have to if they don't choose to come back at a later date when you are going to actually be taking action.

Alan Clendenin

9:17:44AM The motion would be to continue item 2 to a date to be determined and allow applicants that are present here today prepared to speak to speak with those caveats about not sharing notes.

Martin Shelby

9:18:05AM Martin Shelby, City Council attorney.

Alan Clendenin

9:18:08AM You can't give council too many options.

Martin Shelby

9:18:10AM The other option is to continue it to the next regular meeting. Then I'll have a week to be able to get everything squared away.

Alan Clendenin

9:18:17AM Will the background checks be done --

Martin Shelby

9:18:20AM Within two weeks we'll know.

Bill Carlson

9:18:24AM I move to continue to the next regular meeting.

Alan Clendenin

9:18:26AM And allow the applicants to speak today? Councilwoman Hurtak.

Lynn Hurtak

9:18:30AM How many applicants -- if you are here to speak on that, if you are an applicant, please raise your hand. I see four hands. Do we want to ask them if they would rather come back or speak today?

Martin Shelby

9:18:48AM You can give them the option.

Lynn Hurtak

9:18:50AM How many of you -- of those four, how many of you would prefer to speak today? I have one. How many would prefer to come back in two weeks? But two weeks is tricky because we're not starting until 11. I have one that wants to come back in two weeks.

Alan Clendenin

9:19:10AM And two that don't care.

Lynn Hurtak

9:19:12AM Two are like, whatever. What say you all?

Alan Clendenin

9:19:19AM Since it's not unanimous, I say -- in deference, since it is just the one for today, I think we should have everybody at the same time for equitable treatment, have everybody come back in two weeks and do it at the same time.

Lynn Hurtak

9:19:34AM Or allow folks who came today and cannot make it in two weeks to be able to speak to us virtually. That's always an option. Even if it is something we would be the normally do, I want to make sure we give folks the opportunity.

Martin Shelby

9:19:51AM What I'm trying to do -- and I know I will fail. I'm trying to make everybody happy and informed. I have to share this because the late hour that I learned all this information, I have not informed this to the Planning Commission staff. If they are watching, they are going to be learning this now as they hear it. I apologize to them sincerely. With the 11:00 start -- thank you for reminding me, councilwoman, I did not recall that -- if you want to do it at the meeting in December, we can do it then.

Lynn Hurtak

9:20:32AM No, let's get it done.

Alan Clendenin

9:20:34AM We have a motion from Councilman Carlson, second from Councilwoman Hurtak. Next regular scheduled council meeting.

Lynn Hurtak

9:20:43AM November 20 that starts at 11 a.m., 315 East Kennedy Boulevard.

Alan Clendenin

9:20:51AM Applicants will be given an opportunity to speak in person or virtually. Then we will continue the process, hopefully have a decisive answer as to the applicants who successfully completed the entire application process. We have a motion and second. All in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. Thank you so much.

Martin Shelby

9:21:10AM As to the opportunity to speak today, are you still allowing that? No.

Alan Clendenin

9:21:17AM Equitable treatment. Everybody at the same time.

Martin Shelby

9:21:20AM For those people here to speak on item number 2, it has been continued.

Bill Carlson

9:21:29AM Marty, we have the second position that will be reviewed at the same time. If there are people who have not applied, will we still continue to take applications as we have another seat open?

Martin Shelby

9:21:45AM Those are things --

Alan Clendenin

9:21:47AM Let's take that off-line.

Bill Carlson

9:21:49AM In case anybody is watching, if they haven't applied yet --

Alan Clendenin

9:21:53AM We're not doing that one today. Planning Commission we're not doing today. We are now going to do the commendation of the police officer of the month. Councilman Viera. We'll see you guys in two weeks.

Luis Viera

9:22:15AM It is our great pleasure as Tampa City Council to give the officer of the month to master police officer greyson vetter who is here. Like I always say, we always do this to reflect the values of the Tampa community that we serve that always supports our first responders, both our police officers as well as our firefighters and the work they do. This is a very, very small token of our appreciation to the amazing work the cops do in the City of Tampa. To spoke about this very, very worthy honoree, we have Chief Bercaw to speak.

Chief Bercaw

9:22:49AM Good morning, council. Good morning to our newest council member, Councilwoman Young. This is more than a small token. The officers appreciate you all recognizing our officer of the month. The one story you'll hear today, this is literally from a tv show. The information that you're going to hear about officer vetter is amazing. We proudly recognize master police officer greyson vetter as our officer of the month for November 2025. He has served the Tampa Police Department for 15 years, and he's currently assigned to the fugitive apprehension unit and federally sworn as a special deputy u.s. marshal with the U.S. marshal's Florida regional fugitive task force. They need an acronym for that. He's dedicated 23 years to the U.S. coast guard where he serves with the U.S. coast guard investigative service as an investigator first class. Throughout his career, he has earned the reputation for his relentless work ethic, teamwork and skill in solving complex cases. His dedication has contributed to the capture of more than 3,000 fugitives helping make our community safer. That's an amazing amount. Some specific cases I wanted to highlight, during the past month, mpo vetter has apprehended numerous fugitives who were wanted for violent felonies. Recently, he coordinated with the New Jersey task force and Tampa port security to arrest a suspect wanted for felon and possession of a firearm and sale of cocaine aboard a cruise SHIP dock at the Tampa port. He also led the international effort to locate and return a fugitive who was wanted for dui manslaughter and vehicular homicide who had fled to Colombia. His professionalism, integrity and dedication to service represent the values defined in Tampa, and he is clearly making our community safer with all the efforts that he's done out there to arrest these violent fugitives. So for that, he is being honored as our officer of the month. Congratulations. [ applause ]

Luis Viera

9:25:05AM Officer, you have a lot of folks here who will come forward to honor you from the community. Starting with the pba. Great job as always. My name is mary lou bailey. I'm here on behalf of the board of Zoo Tampa. Zoo. We have prepared for you an annual membership to the zoo as a gift. This is my letter. This is the membership for you and your family. Thank you for your diligence and I guess relentlessness. Is that the right word, chief? Thank you for everybody who serves. You guys are all awesome and our heros. Congratulations to you. And congratulations to you, councilwoman. [ applause ] good morning to you. Good morning, officer vetter. Grace gonzalez, behalf of the gonzmart family and 1905 family of restaurants. Thank you for being here in Tampa for over 15 years. We've been here over 120. We hope you enjoy a night out with your family. Thank you for everything you do. We're so happy that you are here. Thank you. [ applause ]

Alan Clendenin

9:26:37AM Just remember, archival purposes, if you just kind of point this way so your voice is projected toward the microphone and the dais so everybody at home can hear you and what organizations you represent. Good morning, council, welcome, Councilwoman Young. Jill witecki from Tampa theatre. I am talking over my shoulder to the officer of the month. Congratulations. Thank you for all you do in the community. We would love to give you an annual membership to the historic Tampa theatre as well to see you there for some shows in the next year. [ applause ] mary dillon from straz center for the performing arts. Thank you so much for your service. On behalf of straz we wanted to offer two tickets to upcoming performance, beverage coupons in there as well, hope you enjoy it along with all the other gifts you receive, maybe combine a really nice evening for your family. Thank you so much. [ applause ] Mr. Chair. Congratulations and welcome, Councilwoman Young. Very excited to have you and look forward to meeting you. Chief, officer vetter, Brian ford with the Tampa Bay buccaneers. Very excited. Your story is amazing. I'm here on behalf of the glazer family and our entire organization to say thank you. Thank you for you and your family, for your sacrifice, your service and your story is remarkable. At 1 Buccaneer Place, we have a tradition, anybody that goes over and above gets a game ball. I'm here to present you your very own game ball. Thank you very much. Congratulations. [ applause ] mike mcarthur, stepp's towing service. Start off with Leo from bill currie ford. Apologizes he couldn't be here. He put together a nice bag and letter from Jennifer curry herself. Shameless plug, if you need your car towed to bill currie ford -- [ laughter ] all seriousness, I am a father of a -- thank you for your service and everything you do and for our community. Todd stepp's and stepp's towing, $100 gift card for dinner, night out on the town for you and your family. [ applause ] congratulations, Councilwoman Young. Thank you so much for your service, officer vetter. MaryBeth Williams here with the friends of the Tampa riverwalk to say thank you for what you do for our community. On behalf of Friends of the Riverwalk, I would like to present with you a riverwalk paver, which will be engraved from the future. We'll let you know when it is engraved. In addition, a couple of other goodies. There is a lot. Gift certificate from Florida Avenue brewing for $200. A gift certificate from splitsville for an adult's night out. And then in here, we have several different items. Two pirate water taxis, two lost pearl admissions, dinner of two aboard yacht star SHIP. Thank you again for your service. [ applause ] Steve Michelini. I'm in the center and facing council.

9:29:52AM You know the rule. Following the drill here. I have a suggestion, though. The footballs have tracking mechanisms in them on game day. I think maybe if you give out the tracking mechanisms to him, he'll have an easier time finding those fugitives.

9:30:10AM Trying to put our police out of work?

Steve Michelini

9:30:17AM No. just making his job easier. On behalf of Jackson bistro we're providing you with hundred dollar gift certificate. Enjoy yourself. There is your certificate there. On behalf of yummy house china bistro -- I always say this, the chief wants to go with you -- you can go over there for lunch. Apparently there was an incident there that police intervened in and we greatly appreciate their assistance. Behalf of meat market in old Hyde Park, providing you with a gift certificate for lunch or dinner. On behalf of the ciccio restaurant group, providing with you a gift certificate. Again, enjoy yourself. Thank you very much. [ applause ]

Luis Viera

9:31:00AM On behalf of a very grateful City of Tampa, Tampa City Council, and, you know, it's relevant we're talking about your family, that you have folks who served as police officers before you in the coast guard, that's something we find with a lot of our police officers and firefighters, family tradition. Number two, a lot of military. Like methodists, presbyterians, episcopalians, they all go together. On a very grateful City of Tampa, sir, we give you the City Council commendation. We appreciate you. Thank you, sir. We don't do it for this stuff, but I want to thank the City Council for this opportunity. Thank Chief Bercaw, command staff, my chain of command at 411. Most importantly is the guys standing behind me and those who couldn't make it here. Task force, it is a team effort. We couldn't do this stuff by ourselves. I think that is the most important part. All those guys behind me and couldn't make it. Thanks to them. Thank you very much. [ applause ]

Alan Clendenin

9:32:14AM Councilman Carlson.

Bill Carlson

9:32:15AM I just want to mention a couple of things real fast. One, I got to meet the officer and thank him before. He is wearing a pin, I won't say what city, it's in commemoration of his father a former police chief.

9:32:30AM It is a family tradition. His family is in the back probably because of the work he does, they are not front and center. He want to make sure we thank them for the support. As he said, the folks along the wall, some of them can't come up front on camera, but the folks along the wall, knowing that they are here and knowing that people like that are in this community I think should all make us feel safer. Thank you. [ applause ]

Alan Clendenin

9:32:57AM One, I want to say thank you for your service to the City of Tampa. I think one thing I'm most proud of, I think you know that this council is 100% behind you and your brothers and sisters that wear the badge. We support our police officers. We understand the safety and our security doesn't come -- it's not an accident. It's dutiful based on what you all do every day to keep ourselves and our families safe. Thank you so much for what you have done and continue to do for the City of Tampa. Enjoy all those nights out on the town. Some of my favorite places to go. Thank you. [ applause ] we'll give a few minutes for the room to shift. Councilman Maniscalco.

Guido Maniscalco

9:33:58AM I want to say welcome to council member Young. I see your wonderful grandmother in the audience, lena young green who I got to meet when I first started here, fighting tbx and a lot of things in Tampa Heights. And all the hard work that you do, thank you.

Bill Carlson

9:34:19AM Her husband is there, too. Say hi to him.

Alan Clendenin

9:34:26AM Hi, mom. Very good. Hi, cairo. How are you doing, buddy? My work dog back there. We've continued item 2. We're moving to item 3, which is approving -- confirming the appointment by the mayor of William Babcock, alternate, as a member of the ARC for the remainder of the three-year term commencing November 6 and ending February 1, 2026.

Lynn Hurtak

9:35:30AM We need to do public comment first because someone may want to speak on it.

Alan Clendenin

9:35:43AM Now I know we have to do public comment because I have cards in my hand. Thank you. Mr. Shelby, you are on.

Martin Shelby

9:35:50AM Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good morning, City Council, members of the public. Martin Shelby, City Council attorney, here to speak to you briefly about the rules of decorum for the conduct of today's meeting. If you wish to speak during general public comment, you've had the opportunity to fill out a speaker card and place it in the box outside. One card per speaker. Cards are accepted until the start of general public comment. Each person submitting a card will be recognized by name to approach and speak. Names that cannot be read will not be called. Please print legibly. If you need to speak at a public hearing and you're here to speak on an item that is set for a public hearing on the agenda, you will have that opportunity when the item is heard later in the agenda. No public comment will be taken during staff reports. The time to speak about those items on the consent agenda and the staff reports is now during general public comment. A three-minute time limit applies to all speakers. Speakers and members of the public are also reminded they are to refrain from disruptive behavior, including making vulgar or threatening remarks or making or causing disruptive noises or sounds or displaying signs or graphics. The Chair Will rule out of order any person who speaks without being recognized or attempts to address council from outside the speaker area at the podium. Persons failing to comply with the council rules may also be ruled out of order and at the discretion of the chair may be removed from the chambers for the remainder of today's meeting. Finally, City Council members should refrain from engaging a speaker under public comment, and the public should be aware that City Council does not take questions or have a dialogue during general public comment. This is your opportunity to express your position to the City Council. Thank you.

Alan Clendenin

9:37:44AM I was consulting on the name because I couldn't read it. Is it alyssa date? Alison date? Not here. Okay. Sorry. I need to write more clearly. I wanted to put this on.

9:38:17AM There is a wheel on the top of the apparatus on the very, very top. I'm with Tampa tree advocacy group. I'm here to talk about the tree trust fund, item 63 and I guess 25. Somehow that got in there, too. First, I want to say thank you to the City departments involved for their -- involved with this tree fund for their hard work and with the limited funding and personnel that they have. Please do not allow the new trust fund to be changed or have money disbursed until all the information for the city's report is provided and can be analyzed. We think some aspects of the use of the tree fund and management plan are not being followed. And as one of the founders of that document said, if this plan is not followed, it will not work, and it is not working. Now is the time to try and make adjustments to how the rest of the tree fund will be used. Clear oversight of the remaining tree funds needs to be established. The city was supposed to provide a detailed annual report that includes all of the information now requested by City Council and that has never happened. Consequently, the old tree fund was used with minimum oversight. This is the city's first request for payment from the new tree fund, and it requires that the money remain in the district it came from. The city has said that they find this too cumbersome, but we disagree, and feel that the accounting for this request is unclear. Reporting what type of tree as well as where, when, and how it is planted is vital for maintaining accountability of the remaining tree fund money. Tampa has not stopped losing its grand live oaks, its keystone species, and now there is less space for the larger trees whose loss created this fund. Planting type one native trees should be a priority. The city says they agree, but their actions don't show it. Instead, this project is a blatant example of overplanting non-native type 3 trees with the tree fund of the 275 trees planted at the two locations, only 36 or 13 percent were type one. Planting native type one trees instead of smaller non-native trees needs to be a priority for the use of the tree fund. None of the city tree program descriptions mention this. There is a need to actually seek out, set aside space for the larger trees and request -- and the requested report will help to oversee that is happening, meanwhile, please vote no.

9:41:33AM Appreciate that. Next speaker is Richard reavis followed by Steve Michelini. My name is Richard reavis. I'm a former magistrate with the city for Code Enforcement. I'm here to speak on item 55. What we had was a unique situation where an everyday citizen who had a violation was able to hear the case, listen to all the issues and find a solution best suited to bring the property into compliance, levy a fine. That fine was based on all information that was ascertained during that meeting. We now have a situation where the magistrate is someone being paid by the city who is levying fines dictated by the city and they are not -- there's no empathy with that magistrate. What -- this has become a one-sided judge, jury and executioner. With the new process, it's predominantly going to affect low-income citizens of the City of Tampa. Because fines are being levied at a greater rate. There's no more that the magistrate can sit there and before it was always based on the magistrate's discretion. Now the city is dictating what the Code Enforcement officer is giving the magistrate to say. I recommend this fine of exponential amounts. What I saw yesterday was egregious. I went down and observed the cases yesterday. They tried a new process. From what I've seen, a couple of observations that I've been to. This is a failed process now. You no longer have citizens coming before another citizen to listen, to hear. You now have a paid person making decisions. Is there bias? Yes. Is there something wrong with this, yes? We need to go back to something where the citizens have more say. Used to be unique. I'm requesting that the City Council deny the ordinance change on item 55, revisit this process of the magistrates for the city Code Enforcement and a possible reverse and go back to the original setting where the city's citizens have more say rather than have a paid person making the decisions for the city. Thank you.

9:44:28AM Thank you, Richard. Steve Michelini followed by bobby creighton. I'm here speaking about the tree trust fund issue and the Code Enforcement issue. The tree trust fund was negotiated. It was set up to create accountability. All of the issues that we brought before you, including the letter that I supplied to council, were discussed in June. There were supposed to be some additional dialogue with the neighborhood associations and the builders who paid into that fund and that didn't happen. It simply did not happen. The issues about getting trees -- you transfer money from the tree trust fund to the city to plant trees and a normal homeowner can't even get through the process. The reason why you have so much money sitting in that account. $6 million by the last accounting sitting in the tree trust fund and they want to take out 300 and something thousand and transfer it to a city project. Every project should stand on its own merits. You shouldn't be taking money from a tree trust fund that was designed for homeowners to mitigate trees that were removed from neighborhoods and put them back in place. It simply makes no sense. Again, we had those discussions and no follow-up discussion occurred with any of the folks. And I appeared before you at that time as well as the homeowner associations. I sat through two years of negotiating and trying to craft a code that would work, including providing the accountability for the tree trust fund. Don't rob the trust fund. Leave it alone. Send them back. Every project should stand on its own merits. I also sent you a letter regarding the Code Enforcement. What happens is, you have a building Code Enforcement issue, and you have a code violation. Those two track simultaneously, and you're accruing fines on both of them. There used to be a provision where if you were in the process, the fines stopped, but you're in a process that could take six or eight months to resolve if you have to go through a rezoning and then permitting. In the meantime, you have thousands and thousands of dollars that are accruing in fines. Then you have to go back and ask for forgiveness or for a fine reduction. As Mr. Reavis said, the accountability is now with an attorney whose profession is magistrating Code Enforcement issues. They are being paid as attorneys. They used to be volunteers and they were reimbursed for minimal expenses. I would say -- ask you to send this code back for revisions. Look at it very carefully. It also removes council's ability to appoint the magistrate. It says the city attorney can now appoint a magistrate. You should not be giving up that authority. It simply is not warranted. I've sent you a letter. It has more details in it, and I would greatly appreciate it on behalf of all of the people. It's discriminatory against property owners.

9:47:40AM Bobby, followed by nancy stevens. Bobby creighton. I'm also here to speak on item 55. I think the commentary that you've heard in public comment so far is indicative of the need of a broader look at Code Enforcement and how mechanisms and procedures are implemented in the city. We've had a magistrate come up. We've had someone who tends to represent the development community. I'll speak on a different angle today. From all sides of the issue, you have people coming up to say something isn't working here. We need to take another look at how this all comes together. I sent you an e-mail with some of my more technical issues with the policy and how they interrelate with ordinances. Thank you to the Legal Department who I am sure will give a very thorough review of that and how those policies and ordinances all interrelate. I want to talk a little bit about data and timelines so we can couch this in a realistic perspective. In 2008, the financial crisis increased the housing stock that was available for investors. I don't think anybody would argue with that. The 2008 financial crisis had the greatest effect in Tampa's lowest income neighborhoods, East Tampa, West Tampa, Sulphur Springs. With recovery from that crisis came changes in the ownership composition in those neighborhoods. Just as an example, East Tampa CRP draft just released we saw that rental units increased from 30% of available units to 50%. So 50% of the units in East Tampa are rental units. 30 to 50 from 2000 to today. The owner occupied units have decreased from -- by around 10% in that same time over the 2000 to 2024 period. You hear anecdotally all the time, or at least I do in community discussions, about LLC owners, slumlords, looking at the statistic I just gave you, that should make sense. What people are saying aligns with what the data is telling us is the composition of ownership in the types of neighborhoods I mentioned. Code Enforcement plays a very, very important role to promote the health, safety, stability, and quality of life in the neighborhoods most vulnerable in our city. If you think of the people who are going to be most affected by detriments in those attributes I just listed, they are people in working-class neighborhoods whose health, safety, quality of life are going to be affected if Code Enforcement actions are not carried out appropriately. We have to be very sensitive about this issue because those same people in the neighborhoods are also at risk because they are the least likely to be able to afford improvements to their homes. So, what I recommend is we need a broader look at how Code Enforcement truly interacts with the various other aspects of our city meant to help our most vulnerable residents and we need a real comprehensive review of how all these things work together to support the people in our neighborhoods.

9:50:48AM Thank you, bobby. Nancy stevens followed by Tarah Bluma. Welcome Councilwoman Young. My name is nancy stevens. Volunteer with the sierra club and Tampa tree advocacy group. I'm speaking on items 63 and 25 regarding the proposed transfer of $334,000 from the tree trust fund to the citywide capital improvement project. I urge you to vote no on this transfer. The reason is simple. The 237 trees have already opinion paid for. It's also important to remember that public projects aren't required to mitigate for trees and don't put money into the Tampa tree trust fund. It's not to say that fund can't be used for city capital improvement projects. Certainly excellent opportunities when doing park improvements to add trees into projects using the tree trust fund and increase our urban canopy. But those proposals should be presented before the funds are spent, giving us an opportunity to review them and ensure that they are appropriate and effective. Furthermore, type 1 native trees should be the priority in using tree trust funds to most effectively replace our canopy. Approving this transfer not only fails to replenish our tree canopy as the tree trust fund was intended, but it also sets a troubling precedent for future usage of the funds. We must safeguard the purpose and integrity of the tree trust fund to the benefit of our community and our environment. Please vote no on item 63 and thank you for your attention and your commitment for Tampa's trees and greenspaces.

9:52:36AM Thank you, nancy. Tarah Bluma followed by Pamela Jackson hain. I am also going to talk about item 63, the tree trust fund. You absolutely should not approve money being taken from the tree trust fund to go to reimburse for trees that have already been paid for through the pipes project. But more importantly, you have all nodded your heads at me when I said the crape myrtles should no longer be allowed to be planted in mitigation. What I'm asking for you to do, rather than approve this, is pass a motion today eliminating crape myrtles from the list of acceptable trees. That would be a great step that you could easily take. I want to point out that of the trees that were planted, only 13% were type one trees. That's what you are being asked to approve today. It's completely unacceptable. I also did receive information from a City staff member that currently the tree trust fund has a moratorium on it and monies cannot be spent out of there right now, which I was not aware of. I thought that you were just waiting to decide if you wanted to transfer some of this money. So if we could look into that as well, that would be great. Finally, on item 54, I hope that you continue to deny that right-of-way to be vacated.

Martin Shelby

9:54:14AM I'm sorry. If you want to speak to that, you do so at the public hearing. Will do. All right. That's all then. Thank you very much.

Alan Clendenin

9:54:22AM Thank you, Tarah. Pamela Jackson Haney followed by lena young green. I am here to speak on item 63 and 25. Pamela Jackson Haney. I'm a member of the Tampa tree advocacy group. I'm asking you to deny in voting no on transferring almost $335,000 from the tree trust fund to a pipes project. The tree trust fund currently holds $6 million, as you've heard, which is a substantial amount. However, it's important to remember why these funds exist, and that's because of the destruction of type one trees in our community. The City of Tampa has lost significant acreage of type one trees, primarily grand live oaks, the workhorses of our tree community and canopy, due to overdevelopment, citizen lawlessness and the destructive impact of hurricanes. The city collects $300 per tree in fines, but spends $1,400 and up to plant a new one. The math doesn't math. This discrepancy highlights the necessity of safeguarding and wisely spending the tree trust fund to restore our dwindling tree canopy. Our progress was severely set back by hurricanes and in many ways, we are starting over. Of the trees planted for the pipes project, 87% were type 3 trees, such as crape myrtles and bottle brush. These species provide minimal environmental benefit while curb appeal may be enhanced, using these funds for that purpose is not justified. The money should not be spent to beautify streets but to replenish environmentally valuable trees. Already, 150,000 has been spent from the new tree trust fund without any explanation for its use. Such unaccountable actions are unacceptable and must be prevented in the future. The fund is a trust for a reason, to protect assets for its beneficiaries. The current and future citizens of Tampa. The damage to our tree canopy has already occurred and we have only one opportunity to correct it. The fund must not be used to offset budget deficits or for any purpose other than planting type one trees. That is the sole reason the money is available, and it must not be used to plant anything else. Thank you.

9:56:59AM Thank you very much. Lena young green. Welcome. Good morning. It is such a pleasure for me to stand before you today. Usually we are talking about community issues --

9:57:12AM Excuse me. We have to have you start with your name. Start your time all over again. My name is lena young green. I was saying it's such a pleasure to be before you all today. Usually we are here talking about community issues. Today we are so delighted to have my granddaughter sitting on the dais. We want to take a moment, though, to remember and honor our City Council woman gwen Henderson. We lost her so unexpectedly, and it was such a shock that we are still recovering from the loss of her. In her place sits Naya Young, and we want to be appreciative of the voters who supported her, who decided she would be the one to sit there with you. We want to thank each of you for supporting her as she comes into this new arena, and we also want to say that the community as a whole, we will continue to stand before you and help to guide you to make great decisions for us. Thank you for this opportunity. [ applause ]

9:58:29AM Thank you for sharing her with us. Pastor Williams followed by ismael. Good morning. Start with your name, please and we'll start your time over.

9:59:38AM State your name. Say Pastor Williams. Frank Williams, located at 1112 East Scott Street. This is a shackle. A slave shackle. I brought this because I wanted you all to know exactly -- I would like for you to pass around and let each one feel it and see it. Pass it to you. And give it back to me. [ laughter ] we want you all to know the truth. Our ancestors were slaves when they brought them to america. Not all of them, but most of them were slaves when they brought them to america. That shackle there is for women and children. Didn't care about the men. They had some a whole lot stronger than that. That's strong itself. That's one reason I wanted you all to see what our ancestors had to go through. They went through a whole lot for us to be where we are today. Not only us, but you too. And god has been extremely good to all of us. I want you all to see that and understand it. These shackles don't mean anything to me now. Handed down from my daddy. I left a holy Bible with me, 1825, and he left a world dictionary and I'm keeping that. Also, I want to welcome you, Naya Young. That's your name, right? I think I might know your people. God is so good to us. I'm glad to see you up there. I want you to be present when we make our comment so you can interfere with and let us know some things ain't right. Now, we got land that they done took from and call it public land and all that stuff. Our mother and father left home for us but they tore down the home and left the land, build a republican pond there. You know, it's bad and serious the way some people treat us. I basically come up here to talk about the Water department. They still haven't put my water on. I've been without water for a whole year. They are saying I don't have to pay -- I pay every month. Just in case the people come down -- you all have mercy. You all don't give me enough time.

10:02:51AM Thank you, Pastor Williams. It was very meaningful and moving this morning. Ismael coss, followed by diana coss. Good morning. My name is diana coss. I lost my son in a fatal dump truck accident on March 17, 2025, here in the City of Tampa. My son was ordered by his employer to place a snipe sign for advertising when he was struck by the truck. I'm dissatisfied with the Police Department and the city attorney's office for not properly and thoroughly investigating the cause of the crash. The investigation did not provide any answers as to why drove his truck into stopped traffic. He killed two men and injured several other people. I want to know why he did not see the traffic stopped. I want to know something other than he was daydreaming, which is what the detective told us. Because the detective himself does it all the time. Daydreaming is -- that is not a good excuse for killing people. I've reviewed the investigation, and the detective coached and warned the offender not to say anything. He walked away with a ticket. The detectives weren't present at the scene. No one did any breathalyzer test, any impairment test, nothing. He was taken to the hospital and given a ticket. My son's death cannot be dismissed as a simple mistake. He was ready to serve this country. He had joined the navy, and he was only 20 years old. He had his whole life ahead of him. It's not fair that these police officers, detectives just didn't want to do their job. They didn't investigate. They didn't do their homework. They didn't look into this man's file. He had been in previous accidents five months prior. The city seems to be on the side of the offender, and it's very disappointing. I just want the city leaders to reopen this case so that it doesn't happen again. We want answers. We're not going to go away.

10:06:09AM Thank you, diana. I'm sorry for your loss. Ismael, would you like to speak as well? Ismael coss. We lost our son and we just want answers from the Police Department. The way the investigation went through, it just doesn't give us answers. How does someone run over someone, a pedestrian and just walks away with a fine and a ticket and able to continue on with their lives like nothing happened. While we are left here every day trying to find answers and trying to fill this gap, this whole, this void that we have in our lives and our hearts. We just want answers. We demand answers. We want justice for our son and driving over someone and walking away with a ticket is just not acceptable any course, any manner. That's all I have to say. Thank you.

10:07:19AM Thank you. We're sorry for your loss. Carroll ann Bennett followed by ashley mora. Section 27, the tree fund's intent is to preserve Tampa's tree canopy. This motion does the opposite. It squanders the fund on type 3 trees that do not restore our lost canopy.

10:08:15AM Cttv, can you put the wolf -- hold on. We'll start your time over again. Cttv -- thank you. I'll start over.

10:08:27AM With your name. Section 27, the tree fund's intent is to preserve Tampa's tree canopy. This motion does the opposite. It squanders the fund on type three trees that do not restore our lost canopy. Only 13% of this money was spent on type one trees. Next slide. They charged $52,000 for Virginia Park, where I live, and we got only 9 trees that will restore canopy. Five magnolias, two winged elms and two oaks. The other two oaks died. Here is one of them. It is totally appropriate to budget for landscaping and projects, but the tree fund isn't for landscaping. That is a misuse of funds. The department says their primary goal is to plant shade trees, but I have seen no evidence of that. The Gandy civic association asked for oak trees. The city said no. parents asked the city to help plant oaks at an elementary school. They were told the city has a moratorium on tree planting. A year and a half ago, t-tag and the joe chillura family asked the city to plant oaks at fire stations and police stations. None have been planted. Next slide. Long ago, I showed this picture of a bus stop in the blazing sun in front of a large retention pond and asked for oaks to be planted. For years, I've asked for oaks to shade the gadsden park trail, which is in full sun. Next slide. This is a facebook post expressing frustration because Ybor City can't get help with their tree-bor city project. This contract charged $1,400 per tree. I think you need to find contractors with sharper pencils. If the city will pay $1,400 for crape myrtles and bottle brushes, they can plant oaks in all the places I cited. The city paid $1,400 per tree. They collected $300 per tree. With that imbalance, the money will go fast. If they use it for crape myrtles and bottle brushes, we'll have no canopy to show for it. If you plant all the possible shade trees and have money left over, then use it for understory trees, but not until then. When you voted yes on these resolutions, they had a funding source. The work was done and paid for. Why are they asking to change the funding source? Were you told that was the intent when you voted yes? Moving money for past projects is easy. Look, we planted 237 trees. Apparently planting oaks is hard, but the hard way benefits our community by restoring canopy and the easy way misuses the tree fund for landscaping. Please vote no. thank you.

10:11:17AM Thank you. Ashley followed by Christine acosta. My name is ashley morrow. I will be sharing Tampa's black history. Today, before I go into the 1860s and we get into Abraham Lincoln and all that we'll take a pause. I want to just talk about a couple of things. A lot of the things that I learned from that period have come from articles and books by these individuals. Dr. Jerrell Shofner, Dr. Larry Rivers, and Dr. Canter brown. In direct communication with Dr. Canter brown. I'm very thankful for that because he knows a whole lot about Tampa's black history. I want to take us back to Angola. That is the whole reason why I talk about what I'm talking about because we learn over and over again the archival documents that there were negroes here in the Tampa Bay area. The negroes, now separated and at a distance from the indians at the hammocks, near the hammocks of Tampa Bay. It says the bay of Tampa, last rallying spot for the disaffected negroes. With negroes to be found at Tampa Bay. 1813, 1818, 1819. Fort brooke is here in 1824. I believe there was something here. I know Angola was in the sarasota area near peace creek, that river. But I believe there was something here. Gadsden point is put at the location where the military base is right now. But it was placed on this shore for some reason. I believe something was already cultivated here, and it was probably the negro population that's mentioned in each of the articles. We won't find proof of it because they were trying to be hidden. Hate to be the conspiracy theorist in the room but I'm using archival documents like I say in quotes from that time where they are talking about people actually living in this area. Era. I like this acronym because it talks about education. What I'm doing here is small in the grand scheme of things. First, you have to have that education and learn that something exists. Then you recognize it. Recognition. And that's where you recognize it when you see it over and over and over again. Sometimes it's just a marker. Sometimes it's just saying it every year. But accountability is where that money comes in. I feel like that's where we fall short sometimes. I think we need to be holding ourselves accountable. My name is ashley canay. I am a photographer. I would love if you would book a session. I have holiday sessions going on, and I also do headshots. If you need me, ashley canay.com.

10:14:32AM Christine acosta followed by mentesnot. I'm Christine acosta. A special warm welcome to our newest city Councilwoman Naya Young. I have spoken to you before on behalf of organizations in our community that focus on road safety and multimodalism. Today I'm just making an appeal to you as a personal citizen. Before I talk about stuff that is not great in my neighborhood, I do want to give a thank-you to the Tampa Mobility department for the traffic calming initiatives that have taken place on my street. I will just give you a moment of orientation here. I'm going to be talking about Morrison Avenue here and Howard Avenue. So this is my area. A few years ago, I experienced a loss of mobility, and some of you may know the work I do is partly prompted by having cared for my father at the end of his life and he was in a wheelchair. Mobility impairments really restrict our ability to live in our communities and experience the best that we have to offer. With my knee scooter, I had fresh eyes and want to bring to your attention missing sidewalk here. We have no sidewalk on this block. We have no sidewalk. Now, this is the intersection of morrison and Howard. It is a fabulous entry point to all that is wonderful about Howard Avenue. We have so many assets there in our community. I know the small businesses there contribute greatly to our tax base. But there's no sidewalk there. So on the knee scooter and on a regular basis, even as a healthy walker, these are some of the conditions that we face in our neighborhood. The sidewalk, that is the terminus of the sidewalk as you're heading towards Howard Avenue on morrison. It doesn't look that bad in the image. I can tell you it is about three inches of dirt and it just is untenable for anybody who is needing a mobility device. So this is the view. You can see the street condition here, very crumbly. On my knee scooter, I was right there in the middle of the lane. It was the only way to move about my community because there's no sidewalk here. So I'm urging you to advance the multimodal impact fee increase that comes your way again on November 20. I cannot be there that day, so I'm here today to talk to you. I have one example here of a new home that's been built in my neighborhood. It's valued at $2 million. We can't afford not to do everything we can --

10:17:51AM Thank you very much.

10:17:59AM Mentesnot followed by surgret doss. Mentesnot. Uhuru means freedom in swahili. We as african people should always be thinking about our freedom. The last 825 years we haven't had any freedom. It's difficult to speak after you hear parents lost their child. Very difficult. My condolences. That takes a toll on you. But what I would like to speak today about is some people are passive aggressive. Some people are aggressive, aggressive and some people are outright bullies. This City Council are bullies. Nothing more, nothing less. And when you see black people, you have a way that you have gerrymandered. You have done different things to our district. Ex-Code Enforcement officers coming in talking about how it's going to affect poor and working-class people, that tells you what the white folks are doing. It tells you what the white folks are doing, but it's part of gentrification. It is administrative gentrification. And they think black people never going to catch on to these things. They are doing gerrymandering and vote rigging in district five. Nobody in district five -- nobody in district five has ever heard of Naya Young. Nobody. And some voting regularities there. White people putting who they want to put in office to represent district five. That's your opinion. The fact of the matter is that we as african people have to stand up against that. The last person they put in office, gwen Henderson, nobody knew who that was. That's what they are doing for the representation. But look, voting irregularities going on in district five. Voting irregularities that's going on. The fact of the matter is, irrespective of who they put in there from perry Harvey to Naya Young, they don't talk about a damn thing, nothing. They don't talk about reparations. They don't talk about police violence. They don't talk about free housing. They don't talk about employment. They don't talk about free medical. They don't talk about education. Nothing. They talk about garbage, absolutely, positively nothing that's indicative or representative of the aspirations of a people that's trying to be free and self-determining.

10:21:08AM Thank you, sir. Surgret doss. I want to welcome Ms. Young to her new position. I want to put this out here and say -- I want to thank all my fellow veterans for their service, commitment, and dedication to a set of principles. I especially want to thank everybody who made the ultimate sacrifices, including my classmate John jordan from the university of Thomas Jefferson high school. Only 6% of americans have put on a uniform. Of that, 14% are black and some 30 plus might be minorities, which would be women and other people. But I want to thank the forerunners, like my grandfather who also served in World War II. That young gentleman, almost 30 some odd years ago when I was in Germany. Colin powell was my commander. My dad and my mom. General butler and Mr. Caldwell from last week, they came up here and you parade them around. This city needs to stop with the propaganda. I want you all to start living up to the words you put on that parchment we call the constitution. I'm positive that those two black men and I know my father and mother went through, I know what I went through in the military. Loved their nation. They were willing to sacrifice their life for the country and still had to endure this manifest racism, not only from those in the military, but from those in this country who would never make that kind of sacrifice, yet they want to guard themselves as some sort of true patriots. Brigadier general, he is testing what black people can do in the playing field level. No such thing as dei. When the playing field is level, we do what we do. Everything in the chamber nothing but bluster. A month ago, I gave you information detailing how judges, attorneys, and a doctor at the va had created a cabal against veterans who had been injured by automobile accidents. Hearing that a veteran was killed in an accident bothers me as well. The second dca is carrying the water for those people, and knowing they are taking advantage of unsuspecting veterans. Second dca deviated from well established law. I think you all have something to do with it. I gave it to you and this crazy order that came out. I have to do mandamus to the Florida supreme court and ultimately the united states supreme court. I'm already in the 11th circuit against you all. That being said, once again, shout-out to all the veterans who serve, those who made the ultimate sack for his and shout-out to the greatest institution in the city, university of Thomas Jefferson high school.

10:24:15AM Thank you, Sir. Ryan hayes followed by Robin Lockett. Ryan hayes and cairo. Ryan hayes. First and foremost, want to acknowledge Ms. Naya Young. Trail blaze and I want to be here to see history in the making. I'm not going to speak about any agenda items. It's something really concerning. I'm a clinical therapist and counselor. A lot of clients and so forth have been asking me to speak up. I'm going to speak in a very rudimentary platform. Since covid, there's been a festering of bringing awareness to mental health and so forth. I just want to speak behind the curtain of what's going on. A therapist or a counselor can only see a patient or a client for 45 minutes for a weekly session and then another 30 minutes for a weekly update. So that's 75 minutes in a week. That's somebody that is suffering from family grief, substance abuse and so forth. So when you add that up, that's 300 minutes and a month. With people that are going to a clinician to seek mental health and therapy, it's just on the front line. Services really can't be compelled to those individuals if you can only speak to a counselor five hours out of a month. Another thing what's going on is insurance and so forth. The lowest insurance. $15,000 the highest is maybe about $60,000 a month. You add up the numbers, you can see how there can be a consistent -- individuals being facilitated to exhaust their insurance. I know there is nothing that the city can do, but this is more to be broadcasted to the community to hopefully get people aware and just hopefully more compassionate and speak upon the true merits of therapy, counseling, and how just the front line of it is not truly benefiting nor in the correct avenue to sustain and help people that are going through these types of tribulations. If you are in there three months, only speak to your therapist for 15 hours throughout that whole time. I'm just speaking solely on my own experience with individuals. It's really disheartening because a lot of individuals are coming to me, just asking me to speak up about what is really going on in the clinical mental health field around the world. There needs to be more commitment to hopefully change, reform the insurance of how individuals can actually receive better clinical mental health and therapy services. Thank you very much for your time. Congratulations, again, Ms. Naya.

10:27:16AM Bye, cairo. Robin Lockett followed by Stephanie poynor. Robin Lockett. I want to congratulate Ms. Naya Young. This was a hard-fought win, but well deserving. I want to talk to, without getting emotional about this, this race in this community. This was a hard-fought race. The community came together. You saw community working in different aspects of the community towards the same goal. You had Florida rising. You had lgbtq. You had magnify voices. You had community coming out. Community having conversations with one another. About who they were going to support. I can tell you now in regards to knocking on doors and having a field game, I will not let anybody disgrace the work that was done in regards to this race and the outcome that the community made. These are not makeup numbers. The community decided this, that they were not going back and they were moving forward. So that is a hint to anybody else. Naya, this seat is well deserving. Well deserving of you. I look forward to working with you along with council also, as usual. Yeah, you too. [ laughter ] but this is what democracy is about, right? It's not young. It's not old. It's new. You are going to build, by sitting in that chair, you are going to build a resilience that you're going to need. The arm that's going to protect you. God is all in this. He's all in the mist of it. You're going to build -- he's going to provide with you that armor to deflect all this other stuff that's going to come at you. You stand tall. You remain to be strong. You remain to be a student. And a student is not a student in school. A student is a student that will listen, gain information, take it, decipher it and make a decision, the best decision. So you remain that. Don't let any of this negativity touch you. Thank you.

10:30:05AM Thank you. Amen. [ applause ] Stephanie poynor. Stephanie poynor. This is one of the reasons why I like to go after other people because I agree with all my tree hugging friends. I'm not a tree hugger but my friends are. I agree with what robin just said 100%. I want to touch on a few things. First of all, where are all the trees we paid for already? Where are all the trees we paid for already? I ask every time that there is a big, million-dollar agenda item to buy trees, where are they going? It was confirmed to me earlier this week that there is not a district for the parks. Why not? Where did they go? I've seen the northern district, but that's the only place I've ever seen it referred to. I would like to know what the districts are and where we plant the trees. If you buy a million dollars' worth of trees, you have to have a list. You have to have a map. You have to know. I mean, Mr. Jones just handed me the map for where they planted the trees for the project we're going to talk about today. He just handed it to me. So where are the maps? I keep asking about it. I would like to point out number 40. Nobody talked about that today, but it's important to me because it irritates the crap out of me. Ditch maintenance and mowing in the south and central districts. What those are? I don't know. That is not a mobility term. So it must be the Parks Department that we don't have districts for. Here is the thing. These guys come out once every six to eight weeks. They are supposed to be cleaning the ditches along the roads. Number one, I just did a Code Enforcement for 7400 Interbay because they had huge piles of branches. I have driven up manhattan before and watched the people who are in city vehicles doing city right-of-way clearing, picking huge branches, four inches around and putting them over on to private property or putting them over on to parks property. And so they are not hauling off anything. Maintenance to me means you take the garbage with you and you put it to the dump. That's what every other yard care guy on the face of the earth does. I want to know who is in charge of these people, because every time they come to my community, they leave a big pile of crap on the road that Solid Waste does not pick up. I have to put in a Code Enforcement complaint for it. And the ditches by my house, they haven't been cleaned in years. They are half full. What have they been doing? They come, but they don't do a very good job in my opinion. Permitting, why are we changing the Code Enforcement process when we don't have any leadership in Code Enforcement right now? Our Code Enforcement guy is out on paid leave. I'm sorry, paid vacation is not acceptable to me. He should be left with no pay until he's found guilty or innocent, whichever one he is. If he's innocent, then, by god, you pay him. But to get free vacation on our tax dollars, not acceptable. I'm sure I'm forgetting something, but I support my tree hugger friends and whatever they said.

10:33:13AM Thank you, Ms. Poynor. We have three registered -- we only have two now. We have two online speakers this morning. Michael randolph, can you hear me? Good morning, Michael.

10:33:45AM We can hear you now. Go ahead, start with your name, sir. My speech today is focused around a new era --

10:33:55AM I'm sorry. Start with your name, Michael. My name is Michael randolph. Today, I'm going to talk to you about a new era, a new playbook. Congratulations, Councilwoman Young. Today I feel a shift in the air. With a new election, a new era begins. You represent not just a new voice, but a new generation -- bold, brilliant, and ready to lead. 14 contenders to one, you are the chosen one. You are cut from a different -- your generation isn't here to encourage the old playbook. You are here to write a new one. Transformation and leadership. Tenant protection and equity zoning, you can ensure -- technology will be your closest ally. With artificial intelligence and digital -- you can make city government more efficient, transparent and responsive. Streaming services -- you must be more than a public servant. You must be a trained -- a change agent, using your critical thinking and creating to think beyond. The road ahead is going to be tough with this climate. Remember the words of Obama, yes, we can. And also remember the words for reverend -- celebrate the election, we celebrate the passing of the torch. We celebrate the beginning of a new chapter, generation -- to be young, gifted -- thank you.

10:36:29AM Thank you, pastor randolph. Lorraine parrino, are you on? Lorraine? Lorraine?

10:37:00AM We can hear you now. Start with your name and you have three minutes. My name is lorraine parrino. President of the Tampa tree advocacy group. T-tag is opposed to the proposed transfer of $334,748.48 from the South Tampa and Central Tampa Tree Trust Fund to the citywide capital projects improvement fund for the following reasons: when City Council approved the project in Virginia Park and Macfarlane Park, it was stated that the tree plantings would be funded by the following: the wastewater Bonds capital projects fund, stormwater Bonds capital projects fund, water Bonds capital projects fund, and the non-ad valorem Bonds capital improvement plan fund. The resolutions that council voted on specify paid from these designated funds. Now one year later, the city wishes to raid the tree trust fund of a huge sum of money to play for the tree plantings. T-tag believes not only a misuse of revenues in the tree trust fund but if council approves the transfer of funds it would set a negative precedent for the future use of monies in the tree trust fund. 85% of the 237 trees that were planted in these two districts were type 3 trees, bottle brush and crape myrtle. Instead of the more valuable type one trees like live oaks which benefit the entire city by making Tampa a healthier place in which to live. Furthermore two of the live oaks planted died and have not been replaced. Last five years, central Tampa lost 8,723 trees. South Tampa lost nearly 8,000 trees. In total, Tampa has lost 20,000 trees in the last five years. T-tag wishes for council to recognize that it is the removal of so many old growth live oaks that contribute to the majority of funds in the tree trust fund. So many old growth trees have been removed that according to the 2021 tree canopy analysis, they are now classified as being, quote, rare, in Tampa. T-tag also wishes to emphasize to council that the mitigation fee for removing an old growth live oak is seriously outdated at $300 per chair. The city spends in excess of $1,400 to purchase a type one tree, a serious imbalance that needs to be addressed by council. There is only $6 million left in the tree trust fund. This is Tampa's last bite at the apple. Now that nearly all of Tampa's old growth live oaks are gone and the tree trust fund will not be replenished at the same rapid rate that it was before. Tampa must prioritize the use of the tree trust fund to plant type one live oak trees wherever shade trees are needed and city fire station and city parks and rights-of-way. Tampa must be hypervigilant to use the tree trust fund money to plant the same valuable type one trees that it has lost by the tens of thousands over the last five years. Not to reimburse City departments that wish to use it as a slush fund. Please vote no on this transfer request. Thank you.

10:39:56AM Thank you, lorraine. That concludes public comment. We are now moving on to board and administration appointments. Item 3. Motion from Councilman Maniscalco to appoint William Babcock, alternate, on the ARC. Any discussion?

Lynn Hurtak

10:40:19AM Are we supposed to take public comment? Oh, we did.

Alan Clendenin

10:40:22AM Is Mr. Babcock in the room? If he was here, give an opportunity to speak. Motion from Councilman Maniscalco, second from Councilman Viera. All those in favor aye. Approved. Ayes have it. Thank you so much. We're on to requests by the public for reconsideration of legislative matters. Hearing none, consent agenda. Councilman Viera, would you move items 4-10.

Luis Viera

10:40:47AM I move said items.

Alan Clendenin

10:40:48AM Motion from Viera, second from Maniscalco. All in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have it unanimously. Councilwoman Young, your first motion, would you move items 11 and 12, please?

Naya Young

10:41:02AM I move items 11 and 12.

Alan Clendenin

10:41:04AM Motion from Councilwoman Young, a second from Councilman Miranda. All in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. Councilman Maniscalco, would you move items 13-18.

Guido Maniscalco

10:41:12AM I would like to move items 13-18 but also on 18, I just want to say I'm excited to see this regarding the interlocal agreement with the ferry. I think we need to embrace any alternative transportation options that we can in this community because this will help create regionalism and connectivity. We saw from the original ferry how well -- how the ridership was, how people used it. This is another tool in the toolbox with getting traffic off the street, cars off the road and connecting communities.

Alan Clendenin

10:41:48AM Councilwoman Hurtak followed by Councilman Miranda.

Lynn Hurtak

10:41:52AM I wanted to say the same thing. It's a wonderful, wonderful program. We are very lucky to be able to support PSTA who has done a wonderful job. Hopefully it will be up and running soon.

Alan Clendenin

10:42:07AM Councilman Miranda.

Charlie Miranda

10:42:08AM I have to disagree on 18 for a reason that we need 350,000. We really want to do the bus. The last time, I didn't vote for that lane because we had other lanes that had very little ridership on the hartline. I would rather spend my money spending on hartline, people who really need to travel to go to work from a to b not be on the waterways having fun.

Alan Clendenin

10:42:31AM Would you like to pull 18 for separate vote.

Charlie Miranda

10:42:34AM I pull 18 for separate vote.

Guido Maniscalco

10:42:36AM I move items 13 through 17.

Alan Clendenin

10:42:39AM Thank you. We have a motion from Councilman Maniscalco. A second from Councilwoman Hurtak. I wasn't in support of the first ferry system because I thought it was infrequent, only one ferry. I think the plan PSTA is three steps in the right direction. I hope to see it fully built out and having frequent service, predictable service, year-round service. We are surrounded by water. This is the future of transportation in Tampa Bay. I really am very happy that our partners across the bay are taking a leadership role in this. Thank you. We have a motion and a second. Councilman Viera.

Luis Viera

10:43:18AM I want to comment on it because councilman Miranda's remarks. I am sympathetic to your view. I am. My point of distinction with that is these funds are a supplement to federal dollars that we're receiving. For me it's 20 to 1. In other words, every federal dollar that is there, $15 we put in one, we get $15 for the region. For me, that is the point of distinction. But I am sympathetic to your view.

Alan Clendenin

10:43:50AM First vote for the consent item is items 13 through 17. All in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have it.

Guido Maniscalco

10:43:56AM I move 18.

Alan Clendenin

10:43:57AM We have a motion to move 18 the transfer for the interlocal agreement for PSTA from Councilman Maniscalco. Second from Councilwoman Hurtak. All those in favor, aye. Opposed?

Charlie Miranda

10:44:07AM Aye.

Alan Clendenin

10:44:08AM Clerk, would you announce the vote, please?

The clerk

10:44:11AM Motion passes with Miranda voting no.

Alan Clendenin

10:44:15AM Thank you. Councilman Miranda, would you move items 20 through 24, 26, 27.

Charlie Miranda

10:44:19AM 20, 21, 22, 24.

Alan Clendenin

10:44:27AM 20 through --

Lynn Hurtak

10:44:29AM 23 is being pulled. He had it right. 20 through 22 and 24.

Alan Clendenin

10:44:36AM Motion from Councilman Miranda. Second from Councilman Maniscalco. Ayes have it.

Lynn Hurtak

10:44:43AM And 27.

Charlie Miranda

10:44:44AM And 27.

Guido Maniscalco

10:44:46AM Second.

Alan Clendenin

10:44:47AM We have a motion from Councilman Miranda to move item 27, second from Councilman Maniscalco. All those in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. Thank you. Councilman Carlson, would you move 29 through 38? Motion from Councilman Carlson, second from Maniscalco. All in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have it.

Lynn Hurtak

10:45:11AM I move items 39 and 40.

Alan Clendenin

10:45:14AM Motion from Councilwoman Hurtak. Second from Councilman Maniscalco. All in favor say aye. Opposed? Ayes have it unanimously.

Guido Maniscalco

10:45:22AM Move to schedule 41 and 42 with respective date for the hearing.

Alan Clendenin

10:45:28AM Motion from Councilman Maniscalco to schedule public hearings on respective dates. Second from Councilman Viera. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. Motion to open all public hearings? We have a motion from Councilwoman Hurtak. Second from Councilman Miranda. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Aye have it unanimously.

Lynn Hurtak

10:45:45AM I have a random question. We are about to do the second readings but Councilwoman Young was not here for those.

Martin Shelby

10:45:55AM These are non-quasi-judicial. We'll get to the quasi-judicial. Legislative, fairly debatable standard.

Alan Clendenin

10:46:05AM Very good. We are now on item 43.

Ross Samons

10:46:13AM Development Coordination. Presenting VAC 25-14 for second reading and adoption. I'm available if you have any questions.

Alan Clendenin

10:46:21AM Council have any questions on item 43? Is there an applicant for item 43? Street, Plant City. As you may recall, this is linked to the rezoning on the agenda as well. The vacating is a partial vacating, just this portion within the new parking lot for the mixed use building on 29th. We just respectfully request your approval.

10:47:01AM Thank you. Anybody in the audience that wishes to speak to item 43? Hearing none, can I get a motion to close from Councilwoman Hurtak. Second from Viera. All in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. Councilman Carlson, would you like to read item 43?

Bill Carlson

10:47:14AM Sure. Move number 43, file vac-25-14, ordinance being presented for second reading and adoption, an ordinance of the City of Tampa, Florida, vacating, closing, discontinuing and abandoning that alleyway located north of 29th avenue, of South Lake Avenue, east of 29th street and west of 30th street with the -- within the plat of map of campobello, a subdivision in the City of Tampa, Hillsborough county, Florida, as more fully described in section 2 hereof, subject to certain covenants, conditions and restrictions as more particularly set forth herein, providing for enforcement and penalties for violations, providing for definitions, interpretations and repealing conflicts, providing for severability, providing an effective date.

Alan Clendenin

10:47:57AM We have a motion from Councilman Carlson. Second from Councilman Viera. Please record your vote.

The clerk

10:48:12AM Motion carried unanimously.

Alan Clendenin

10:48:17AM Very good. We are now to item number 44. These are quasi-judicial. Has everybody who is here to speak -- everybody who is here to speak, please stand, raise your right hand and be sworn in by the clerk [oath administered]

10:48:43AM Okay. 44. Mr. Shelby.

Martin Shelby

10:48:45AM Yes, with regard to the quasi-judicial matters, I would like to make inquiry of Councilwoman Young. Have you had the opportunity to review the records and are you prepared to vote today?

Naya Young

10:48:56AM Yes.

Martin Shelby

10:48:57AM Thank you so much.

Alan Clendenin

10:49:01AM Staff for 44.

Stephanie Pope

10:49:06AM Good morning. Stephanie Pope, Development Coordination. Item 44 is rez-25-93. This item is rezoning request for the property located at 3801, 3803, 3807, 3809, 3811, 3813, 3813 1/2, 3815, 3817, 3819, 3729, 3723, 3719, 3615, 3603, and 3601 north 29th street and 2803 east 32nd avenue. The request is to rezone from RM 16 CG and PD to PD for multifamily and storefront residential, commercial office, all CG uses except bar, lounge, Place of Religious Assembly, restaurant greater than ten seats. The revisions including walk-up units with porches and activation along 29th street have been completed and certified plans have been submitted to the clerk's office. The applicant is present and will be available to show you renderings as requested. I am available if you have any questions.

Alan Clendenin

10:50:23AM Council have any questions? Hearing none, applicant, please. I see you have the pretty pictures for us. I have been sworn. Bogs engineering 601 south alexander, Plant City. Just the quick rendering to remind you this is north 29th. These are the four parcels along the four blocks. We have made all the corrections on the revision sheet. There were a couple of items that council specifically asked about. I wanted to show you the elevations have been updated. All the porch features now include canopies as well above them. So they have cover and shade, and then -- I'll show you just this one. I have a whole packet of them. But you can see them actually over each one as well and down the street. Everybody will have a nice cover. They can sit out there without dealing with the rain. You had also asked, Councilwoman Hurtak, about the bicycle storage and the architect has been hard at work to do the typical floor plans. This is the one bedroom. Given it's small so the bike storage is actually a wall unit. This was a wall between the living room and kitchen. They took it out and did a vertical rack which is like a regular city apartment. This is actually the illustrated version of it. It has a wheel guard on it. You place it on the wall and doesn't scar the wall. The two bedroom because there was a little bit more room, I asked them to look at building right inside the front door, not a linen closet but a coat closet. They were able to fit in a double wide here and also vertical stack like this. They are actually staggered. Like this, so you can place two bikes right inside your front door. Don't have to carry it in. Take it right back out the door. We were hard at work making sure that happened. We respectfully request your approval for this. We're very excited to get the project going and hope to see you at the ground breaking if you approve the application.

10:52:35AM Any questions?

Lynn Hurtak

10:52:37AM I want to say I love the inside bike storage feature. For all those other developers listening, follow up. Like to see more of it.

Alan Clendenin

10:52:52AM Hearing no questions, anybody in the public that wishes to speak to item 44? We have a motion from Councilman Viera to close. Second from Councilman Maniscalco. All those in favor aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. Councilman Viera, we're going to follow closely to make sure you get all --

Luis Viera

10:53:07AM I was thinking that, right? I hereby move an ordinance presented for second reading and adoption, an ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity of 3801, 3803, 3807, 3809, 3811, 3813, 3813 1/2, 3815, 3817, 3819, 3729, 3723, 3719, 3615, 3603 and 3601 north 29th street and 2803 east 32nd avenue in the City of Tampa, Florida, more particularly described in section 1, from zoning district classification RM, residential, multifamily, CG, commercial general, and PD, Planned Development, to PD Planned Development, residential, multifamily and storefront residential, commercial/office, all CG uses except bar/lounge, Place of Religious Assembly, restaurant greater than 10 seats, providing an effective date.

Alan Clendenin

10:54:00AM We have a motion from Councilman Viera and a second from Councilman Miranda. Please record your vote, please.

The clerk

10:54:05AM Motion carried unanimously.

Alan Clendenin

10:54:27AM You can see the vote. It's accounted for. He's announced it, yeah. It passes unanimously. Thank you. Item 45.

Stephanie Pope

10:54:38AM Stephanie Pope, Development Coordination. Item number 45 is rez-25-30. This item is a rezoning request for the property located at 2741 and 2747 West Green Street. The request is to rezone from CG, commercial general, to PD, Planned Development, for residential, single-family, detached and attached uses. Revisions, along with the additional changes as requested have been completed and certified plans have been submitted to the clerk's office. I'm available if you have any questions.

Alan Clendenin

10:55:09AM Council have any questions? Hearing none, applicant? Street. I have been sworn. We're here to serve at the pleasure of City Council. We made all the changes that we agreed to at the first reading. We're happy to answer any questions you may have. Thank you.

10:55:34AM Hearing none, anybody in the public that wishes to speak to this item? Can I get a motion to close? Motion from Miranda. Second from Maniscalco. All in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. Councilwoman Young, would you please read item 45?

Naya Young

10:55:50AM I move item 45, ordinance being presented for second reading and adoption, an ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity of 2741 and 2747 West Green Street in the City of Tampa, Florida and more particularly described in section 1 from zoning district classification CG, commercial general, to PD, Planned Development, residential, single-family, detached and attached, providing an effective date.

Alan Clendenin

10:56:12AM Thank you. We have a motion there Councilwoman Young. A second from Councilman Maniscalco. Since we're having issues -- you think it is working now? Please record your vote. Yay.

The clerk

10:56:31AM Motion carried unanimously.

Alan Clendenin

10:56:33AM Thank you. Item 46.

Stephanie Pope

10:56:37AM Stephanie Pope, Development Coordination. Item number 46 is rez 25-82. This item is a rezoning request for the property located at 6008 south 6th street. The request is to rezone from RS 60 to PD, Planned Development for residential single-family detached. Revisions have been completed and certified plans have been submitted to the clerk's office. I am available for any questions.

Alan Clendenin

10:57:03AM Council have any questions? Hearing none, applicant. Ms. Young, Congratulations on your appointment. Welcome. I'm here to answer any questions. Thank you for consideration.

10:57:16AM Thank you. Council have any questions? Hearing none, anybody in the public who wishes to speak to the item? Motion to close from Councilman Maniscalco. Second from Councilman Miranda. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. Councilwoman Hurtak.

Lynn Hurtak

10:57:30AM Thank you. We are on 46. File number lez-25-82, an ordinance being presented for second reading and adoption, an ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity of 6008 south 6th street in the City of Tampa, Florida, and more particularly described in section 1 from zoning district classification RS 60, residential, single-family, to PD, Planned Development, residential, single-family, detached, providing an effective date.

Alan Clendenin

10:58:01AM Thank you. We have a motion from Councilwoman Hurtak. A second from Councilman Maniscalco. Please record your vote.

The clerk

10:58:20AM The motion carried with Carlson voting no.

Alan Clendenin

10:58:23AM Thank you. Item number 47, staff.

Stephanie Pope

10:58:27AM Stephanie Pope, Development Coordination. Item number 47 is rez-25-83. This item is a rezoning request for the property located at 6307 south main avenue. The request is to rezone from RS 60 to RS 50. I am available if you have any questions.

Alan Clendenin

10:58:46AM Council have any questions? Hearing none, applicant? Is there an applicant for item 47? Hearing none, anybody in the audience wishing to speak to item 47? We have a motion to chose from Councilman Maniscalco. Second from Councilman Miranda. All in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. Councilman Maniscalco.

Guido Maniscalco

10:59:08AM Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Item 47, an ordinance being presented for second reading and adoption, ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity of 6307 south main avenue in the City of Tampa, Florida and more particularly described in section 1 from zoning district classification RS 60, residential, single-family, to RS 50, residential, single-family, providing an effective date.

Alan Clendenin

10:59:25AM We have a motion from Councilman Maniscalco. Second from Councilman Viera. Please record your vote. Can you mute yourself real quick?

The clerk

10:59:52AM Motion carried unanimously.

Alan Clendenin

10:59:53AM Okay. Kevin, if you are listening, 47 passed unanimously. Item number 48, Councilwoman Hurtak.

Lynn Hurtak

11:00:01AM Thank you. I am recusing myself from both the rezoning and the bonus resolution because I have an interest in real property located in the close vicinity to the subject property. So I have my forms. I'm going to send them to the clerk, can I get a second.

Alan Clendenin

11:00:19AM We have a motion to accept a recusal form from Councilwoman Hurtak. A second. All in favor, aye. Opposed? Thank you so much. Staff on item 48.

Stephanie Pope

11:00:31AM Stephanie Pope, Development Coordination. Item number 48 is rez-25-84. This item is a rezoning request for the property located at 5802 North Florida Avenue, units a, b, c, and d, 5804 North Florida Avenue and 101 and 103 West Henry Avenue. The request is to rezone from Seminole Heights Planned Development to Seminole Heights Planned Development for storefront residential commercial office and all CG uses. Revisions have been completed and certified plans submitted to the clerk's office. I am available for any questions.

Alan Clendenin

11:01:12AM Council have any questions? Hearing none, I see Ryan. Have you been sworn in? Raise your right hand and have the clerk swear you in, please. [Oath administered]

11:01:33AM Applicant, anything to say on the item? My name is Ryan al hebshi, engineer and authorized agent for algo Florida, LLC. we have addressed everything that was of concern from the first reading, and we're looking forward to bringing a 67-unit, mixed-use building with affordable housing and ground floor commercial space that's consistent with Seminole Heights corridor. And we're looking forward to bringing the project to fruition.

11:02:07AM Thank you. Council have any questions? Hearing none, is there anybody in the audience that wishes to speak to item 48? Can I get a motion to close? Councilman Maniscalco, second Miranda. All in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. Councilman Miranda, would you read item 48 and following that the resolution.

Charlie Miranda

11:02:26AM Item 48, file rez-25-84, ordinance being presented for second reading and adoption, an ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity of 5802 North Florida Avenue, 5802 North Florida Avenue units a, b, c and d, 5804 North Florida Avenue and 101 and 103 West Henry Avenue in the City of Tampa, Florida, more particularly described in section 1 from zoning district classification sh-pd, Seminole Heights, Planned Development to sh-pd Seminole Heights, Planned Development, storefront residential, commercial/office, all CG uses, providing an effective date.

Alan Clendenin

11:03:02AM We have a motion from Councilman Miranda. Second from Councilman Maniscalco. Please record your vote.

The clerk

11:03:13AM Motion carried unanimously with Hurtak abstaining.

Charlie Miranda

11:03:16AM Move the resolution for item 48.

Alan Clendenin

11:03:18AM We have a motion from Councilman Miranda. A second from Councilman Maniscalco to move the resolution. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. Thank you. Unanimously. Item 49.

Christopher Demanche

11:03:29AM Development Coordination. Item 49 is rez --

Alan Clendenin

11:03:38AM Chris, were you sworn in?

Christopher Demanche

11:03:40AM Yes, sir.

Alan Clendenin

11:03:41AM Thank you.

Christopher Demanche

11:03:43AM I can start over if you would like.

Alan Clendenin

11:03:46AM That's okay. Continue.

Christopher Demanche

11:03:48AM Item is rezoning request for property located at 3802, 3802 suite b and suite b 2, 3804, a, b and c, Dale Mabry Highway. 3802 britton plaza a and c and 3618 West Euclid Avenue. This request is to rezone property from residential single-family 50, RS 50, to commercial general CG. This is a euclidean rezoning, so there's no site plan associated with it. I'm here for any questions you might have.

Alan Clendenin

11:04:19AM Council have any questions? Hearing none, Alex, I see you are online. Will you raise your right hand and be sworn in by the clerk, please? To give is the truth and nothing but the truth? Alex Schaler, 400 North Ashley Drive. Provide a quick update on this. We were at first reading, there was a gentleman that attended and he was one of our neighbors. He was looking for additional information. I was able to connect with him via e-mail. I sent him the current concept plans for that area in question that's adjacent to his house and I told him as well we'll keep that line of communication open. As our plans evolve and get more fine tuned we would be happy to share those with him.

11:05:02AM Thank you. Council have any further questions? Hearing none, anybody in the audience wishing to speak to item 49. We have a motion to close from Councilman Maniscalco. Second from Councilman Viera. All in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. Councilman Carlson, would you read item 49?

Bill Carlson

11:05:17AM Move item number 49, file rez-25-85, ordinance being presented for second reading and adoption, an ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity of 3802 South Dale Mabry Highway, 3802 South Dale Mabry Highway, suite b and suite b2, 3804 South Dale Mabry Highway, 3804 South Dale Mabry Highway a, b and c, 3802 britton plaza, a and c, and 3618 West Euclid Avenue in the City of Tampa, Florida, more particularly described in section 1 from zoning district classification RS 50, residential, single-family, to CG, commercial general, providing an effective date.

Alan Clendenin

11:05:58AM We have a motion from Councilman Carlson. Second from Councilman Maniscalco. Please record your vote.

The clerk

11:06:07AM Motion carried unanimously.

Alan Clendenin

11:06:08AM Thank you. Item number 50.

Christopher Demanche

11:06:12AM Christopher Demanche, Development Coordination. Item 50 is rez 25-95. This item is rezoning request for property located at 2802 West Kennedy Boulevard. Request is to rezone from CG commercial general to PD Planned Development for restaurant, drive in and all CG uses. Revisions have been completed and certified plans have been committed to the clerk's office. I'm available for any questions.

Alan Clendenin

11:06:35AM Council have any questions? Hearing none, troy cogger is your camera on? Applicant, Troy Carter?

11:07:04AM Troy, hold on. We don't have video on you.

11:07:17AM Mr. Shelby, quasi-judicial, we have to have video on him, right?

Martin Shelby

11:07:23AM Does he have any additional evidence other than available for questions?

Alan Clendenin

11:07:26AM Are you going to provide?

11:07:29AM Then we can move on.

Martin Shelby

11:07:30AM We can move on.

Alan Clendenin

11:07:31AM Anybody in the audience wishing to speak to item 50? Motion to close from Councilman Viera. Second from Councilman Maniscalco. All in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. Councilman Viera, would you read item 50, please?

Luis Viera

11:07:43AM I move an ordinance presented for second reading and adoption, an ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity of 2802 West Kennedy Boulevard in the City of Tampa, Florida, more particularly described in section 1 from zoning district classification CG, commercial general, to PD Planned Development, restaurant, drive-in and all CG uses, providing an effective date.

Alan Clendenin

11:08:04AM We have a motion from Councilman Viera. A second from Councilman Maniscalco. Please record your vote.

The clerk

11:08:13AM Motion carried unanimously.

Alan Clendenin

11:08:14AM Thank you. Item 51.

Christopher Demanche

11:08:18AM For the record, Christopher Demanche with Development Coordination. Item 51 is rez-25-101. This item is a rezoning request for property located at 1501 West Grace Street. The request is to rezone from residential single-family RS 50 to residential multifamily RM 18. This is a euclidean rezoning, so there's no site plan. I'm available for any questions.

Alan Clendenin

11:08:40AM Council have any questions? Hearing none, applicant, gisele, are you on? Or James? We don't have cameras on you yet.

11:09:06AM We can hear you but don't have camera on you.

11:09:16AM Do you have any additional -- just here to answer questions?

11:09:22AM Can you raise your right hand and be sworn in by the clerk, please?

The clerk

11:09:27AM Do you swear the testimony you are about to give is the truth and nothing but the truth?

Alan Clendenin

11:09:31AM Very good. Do you have anything to add?

11:09:35AM Start with your name. I'm here to answer any questions you may have.

11:09:47AM Thank you. Does council have questions? Hearing none, anyone here to speak to item 51? Motion to close from Miranda. Second from Councilman Viera. All in favor aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. Councilwoman Young, would you read item 51, please?

Naya Young

11:10:02AM Move item 51, ordinance being presented for second reading and adoption, an ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity of 1501 West Grace Street in the City of Tampa, Florida, and more particularly described in section 1 from zoning district classification RS 50, residential, single-family to RM 18, residential, multifamily, providing an effective date.

Alan Clendenin

11:10:19AM We have a motion from Councilwoman Young, a second from Councilman Viera. All in -- sorry, please record your vote.

The clerk

11:10:31AM Motion carried unanimously.

Alan Clendenin

11:10:33AM Thank you very much. We are on item 52, petitions to vacate and public hearings on legislative matters.

McLane Evans

11:10:43AM Assistant city attorney. Item 52 is the second and final public hearing for proposed Brownfield Area designation of the property consisting of three contiguous parcels generally located in the vicinity of 1002 North Howard Avenue, 2315 and 2331 West Cypress Street. The City of Tampa is requesting designation of these properties as Brownfield Area to assist in the assessment and remediation of environmental impacts that may exist on those properties. Details of the designation have been outlined in the document entitled staff report, cypress housing project proposed Brownfield Area designation available for public review in the clerk's office or onbase. City staff determined that all statutory and public notice requirements have been met and recommends City Council approve this designation. At the conclusion of this second public hearing, council Will have the opportunity to adopt a resolution designating cypress housing project a Brownfield Area as specified in chapter 376 Florida statutes. Staff and I are available if you have any questions.

Alan Clendenin

11:11:43AM Thank you. Does council have any questions? Hearing none, victor, I see you are online. Did you have anything to add? We can't hear you. Still can't hear you.

McLane Evans

11:12:00AM I believe he is available for your questions. I spoke to him before the hearing.

Alan Clendenin

11:12:04AM Okay. Very good. No questions from council. Anybody in the public that wishes to speak to item 52? Hearing none, we have a motion to close from Councilman Maniscalco. A second from Councilman Viera. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Ayes have it.

Guido Maniscalco

11:12:20AM Move the resolution --

Alan Clendenin

11:12:21AM Motion from Councilman Maniscalco to move 52, second from Councilman Viera. All in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. Very good. 53.

McLane Evans

11:12:31AM McLane Evans, assistant city attorney. Item number 53 is the second and final public hearing for proposed Brownfield Area designation for property located in the general vicinity of 4801, 4803 east Hillsborough and 4710 Shadowlawn Avenue. City of Tampa is requesting designation of these properties as Brownfield Area to assist in the assessment and remediation of environmental impacts that may exist on those properties. Details of the designation have been outlined in the document entitled staff report east Hillsborough Avenue and shadow lawn avenue proposed Brownfield Area designation available in the city clerk's office and online in onbase. City staff determined that statutory and notice requirements have been met and recommend City Council approve the designation. At the conclusion of the second public hearing, council would have an opportunity to adopt a resolution designating east Hillsborough Avenue and Shadowlawn Avenue area a Brownfield Area as specified in chapter 376 Florida statutes. Victor and I are available if you have any questions.

Alan Clendenin

11:13:31AM Council have any questions? Hearing none, anybody in the audience who wishes to speak to item 53? Motion to close from Councilman Maniscalco. Second from Councilman Miranda. All in favor say aye. Opposed? Ayes have it.

Guido Maniscalco

11:13:45AM Move resolution.

Alan Clendenin

11:13:45AM Motion from Councilman Maniscalco, second from Councilman Miranda. All in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. Unanimously. Thank you so much. Item number 54.

Ross Samons

11:14:01AM Ross Samons, Development Coordination, presenting file vac-25-06. This is a proposed vacating request. The applicant's name is Steve Yerrid, little house, LLC. representative's name is garner brewer Hudson. Property address is 5001 West San Gable Court. Proposed vacating request is vacate a portion of West Dryad Street right-of-way located of North San Gable Court, of South San Miguel Street, east of Old Tampa Bay and of West Dundee Street. Background, the application was originally filed February 5, 2025. That original application was heard, the ordinance first reading was heard on May 1st, 2025, and denied. Applicant requested a reconsideration. That motion to reconsider and set the public hearing was initiated on May 15, 2025. And to be set on August 7, that was continued to today. Right-of-way is currently unimproved. Right-of-way was created by subdivision plat. Existing right-of-way is approximately 2,923 square feet.

Alan Clendenin

11:15:20AM Before you continue, we'll pause one second. We'll take a little jeopardy pause. Anybody want to sing?

Lynn Hurtak

11:15:36AM No.

Alan Clendenin

11:17:25AM You eliminated my need to ask where you were.

Ross Samons

11:17:30AM Ross Samons, Development Coordination presenting file VAC 25-06. This is an aerial view of the proposed vacating request. Proposed vacating area in yellow. Dryad street. This is the original plat. Platting and dedicating this portion of dryad street here proposed vacating area is here. Again, I've got and highlighted it red to show you here. This is the proposed vacating request. This is an image looking from West North Dundee Street. Again, proposed vacating area here. Not the entirety of the area but a portion of IT. Staff has no objections. Vacating request, easement reservations are required by stormwater and TECO. Special conditions, natural resources must comply with chapter 27 as regards to tree preservation and site design for any improvements. Placed adjacent to trees in any vacated area. That concludes my presentation. I'm available if you've got any questions.

Alan Clendenin

11:18:46AM Council have any questions? Councilman Maniscalco.

Guido Maniscalco

11:18:49AM Sir, the image you showed of this parcel, what's behind the wall? Is it just water?

Ross Samons

11:18:56AM It is. It's part land and water, yes.

Guido Maniscalco

11:19:03AM Who maintains that wall? Who does it belong to? Who put it there? The city?

Ross Samons

11:19:08AM One of the abutting owners maintains that fence.

Guido Maniscalco

11:19:13AM Who mows the grass? Well, the grass is dying there?

Ross Samons

11:19:18AM The abutting owners. And per code, section of code, I can't cite it perfectly, but the abutting owners are required to center line to not allow public nuisance and overgrowth. So the abutting owners take care of that.

Guido Maniscalco

11:19:41AM Thank you.

Alan Clendenin

11:19:43AM No other questions? Applicant? Tyler Hudson. Address is 400 North Ashley Drive. The cord is not here. We'll do this manually. There are two applicants for this. There's Mr. Yerrid and Mr. Italiano. Just to sort of set the table, my client is Mr. Yerrid. I'll give a presentation, and then Mr. Michelini, who represents Mr. Italiano, is going to speak as well. That is the area that we're talking about. Mr. Yerrid Owns the land that is to the left. That is to the south. Mr. Italiano Owns the home to the right, that's to the north. The yellow line is the extent of the right-of-way. Councilman Maniscalco asked what happens beyond. Beyond that yellow dashed line is port-owned property. Port Tampa Bay owns that land in fee simple. The yellow dashed line is where the shoreline stops in 1919 when this was the dead end of dryad. But because of dredge and fill and accretion, the coastline went further west. Right-of-way does not travel further west to the shoreline. So that land and there hasn't been a shred of evidence in the record that I'm aware of to dispute. We know this because we looked through every possible title company, the land beyond the yellow dashed line towards the water is owned by Port Tampa Bay. We know that because some neighbors beyond have been able to obtain land from Port Tampa Bay for their docks that are actually on the water. Same view, different way. Left side, the view to understand that this land this subject right-of-way, we've had surveyors out there, countless title examinations. There is zero question that this land stops well short of the shoreline. It didn't always back in 1919. It was on the shore then. It is not now. The only way to access the water through this piece of right-of-way is to trespass onto port property and then clamber over what would be a rough mangrove situation on to a stormwater outfall facility that the city owns. We'll talk about that in a second. I think I said this enough. The land is privately owned. There is a tenor in a little bit of the opposition that the land, that it is a land grab. Giving land to the private property. This land is privately owned. 1919 when they originally platted this out, they said, well, we'll give you 25 each of either side to make for 50-foot right-of-way of dryad street. Never got built. Never will get built. Everyone knows that. The core issue that you have to decide and the last time we were here the conversation was meandering a little bit. Is it in the public interest of the city to give up an easement for a road that will never build to get an easement for stormwater that it does not have right now and it needs? There are two gravity mains running beneath the property. Stormwater doesn't have a stormwater easement. Right-of-way is a service easement for pedestrian and vehicular travel access. The reason the stormwater supported this application is because approval of this gets them the easement they currently lack. I'll skip this in the interest of time. We know this is the end of the road. Kind of the end of the road for my presentation. We bring a lot of right-of-way vacatings before you. It is very, very unusual to have one that does not have a single department objection. I cannot recall one in my career bringing these before you. These are scrutinized. These are vetted by the infrastructure departments. Everyone that can possibly touch this has not a single department has objected to this vacating request. Here is why. The entire property is going to be subject to a stormwater easement. You can't put temporary structures. You can't put permanent structures. You can't put landscaping other than shrubbery, shrubs, shrubbery, small shrubbery. That's all you can do. Isn't like a new backyard. There aren't homes going in here. This is transferring a road easement that will never get built. In my view, legally doesn't actually cover the stormwater facility under the ground because right-of-way is for surface. And the city is getting a stormwater easement that it needs to protect gravity main that doesn't just outflow for the two homes adjacent. It outflows to the entire neighborhood. The folks in the neighborhood need no reminder of the importance of that. Some folks aren't back in their homes in this part of Sunset Park. Approving this gets the city the stormwater easement that it does not have today and needs. So with that, I'll turn things over to Mr. Michelini.

Steve Michelini

11:24:39AM Good morning, council. Steve Michelini representing Jeffrey italiano and his estate. We've had a lot of discussion about this. This is a piece of property that originally belonged to the adjacent property owners. And when we talk about the western end and where does it go, it's owned by a combination of mcdonaugh who has a home there and a portion of it belongs to the Tampa Port Authority. The right-of-way remained unused and unimproved for 106 years. Portions of it were previously dedicated and surrendered by the City of Tampa to the Port Authority for their use and access because the Port Authority has jurisdiction over rights-of-way, has jurisdiction over waterways. There is no access to the bay. There's been some e-mails back and forth about carrying kayaks and fishing and all of that. It is private property. They can't get there. You saw the wall and the fence that runs across the west end. This has to deal with the east end of that property. There is no access to the bay from there. There is a drainage easement that has to be provided to the city because there are two culverts. If you look in the pictures, Tyler showed you, there are two parallel drainage culverts that run out to the bay. The city has to have that and has to have that easement and has to have access for maintenance, all of which will be provided. Nothing can be built there. This is not a buildable lot. It has to remain green. The property owners, the adjacent ones, italiano and Yerrid have been maintaining it. There is a conversation easement that also runs across it, which means it has to remain green. All City departments, 20 City departments have reviewed this and decided -- there are no objections. The only issue that's in there is the easement that's required by the Stormwater Department for the stormwater pipes. This is an easement -- this is a right-of-way that's held in trust. The city is the trustee. And we're asking for the city to release its trustee-ship and return it to its rightful owners, the adjacent property owners. There are three entities that have entitlements in this area. One of them was removed by the city because it didn't directly abut the requested vacated area. The original purpose was for a street. That street and the utilities associated will never be built, except for the stormwater that is in there and the city put it in there without permission, without the authority to do that. But anyway, part of the petition is to provide a permanent easement for that to be dedicated back to the city. The open area is unsecured, and it creates a security issue for both property owners. Mr. Italiano as well as Mr. Yerrid can speak to that concern regarding their liability for maintenance, safety, and security. The access to the city maintenance will be provided. So the city will be able to access this area for their own maintenance for those stormwater pipes. The proposed area is not a vacation, recreation, playground, or anything else. Never was, never intended to be, and it can't be used for that. The liability that's associated with that transfers to the property owners which they have serious concerns about. As I said, it does not provide an access for fishing, unless you are going through somebody else's backyard or kayaking or whatever. The proposed area to be vacated lies directly adjacent to these property owners who are requesting that this right-of-way be released. The area is proposed for the vacating do not have access to Old Tampa Bay. They have access perhaps to the street and the drainage, stormwater retention -- I mean, the stormwater culverts. The proposed area does not increase the chances of flooding. It does not. As a matter of fact, it provides better access for the city, which they currently do not have. It must be maintained green and no permanent structures. And no permanent structures can be built on the easement. Mr. Italiano, will you come up, please? I am the adjacent property owner. Councilman, you asked before what was behind the white fence? It is the neighbor's yard. The part that there's water is about 15-foot. Right at the corner of my property on the right. It is all mangroves except for a large, like, three-foot stormwater sewer. If you were to try to get in that water, you would be climbing on a sewer and then jumping in muck. It's not nice there. I have concerns over liability because at times there are people in that yard. At night, I installed cameras. I installed flood lights. I have a neighbor across the street who has called the police on multiple occasions because she feels like there are drugs being sold out there. I have never seen anything like that but it does concern me. I did have my gate -- a lock installed. When I bought the property, I asked my realtor, I said this isn't public, right? I don't want to buy an expensive house next to public park that could be dangerous. I'm an insurance agent. When people congregate in areas that are not monitored, you typically end up with problems. I haven't seen anyone play in that area in years, several years. I did notice last week for the first time there were some kids there that I think is because we're here today, honestly. It hasn't happened. It's not a park. It's basically the land that belongs to me and Mr. Yerrid that the city took trust in to access the stormwater. They are not using it, and it should be returned to us. It's the right thing to do. You can't just decide we want to throw a park there, building there, restaurant there. It is our land. It's not being used and it should be returned to us. I believe that's correct.

11:31:39AM Council, I think you've got a clear picture of what's going on here. It's not public land. Never was. Shouldn't be used that way and it creates a liability for the adjacent property owners. We respectfully request your approval and happy to answer any questions.

Alan Clendenin

11:32:00AM Any questions? Councilwoman Young. Pause for a second for consultation with the attorney.

Lynn Hurtak

11:32:41AM I'll take this moment to say thank you to Luis for giving me the HART award this Monday. That was really exciting and I really appreciate it.

Alan Clendenin

11:32:54AM Are you saying that Councilman Viera issued a commendation to someone.

Lynn Hurtak

11:32:57AM I know. It's very rare. He doesn't do them very often. But that's why I felt so honored to receive.

Luis Viera

11:33:04AM If I may, Mr. Chair, yeah, so what Councilwoman Hurtak, I was going to bring it up at the end. But the HART board chose to honor Councilwoman Hurtak as champion of transit for her championing for two straight years the funding of route one of $3 million in funding for mass transit because of her leadership and so we on the HART board wanted to honor that and Councilman Clendenin and I went up and did that. God bless you for that.

Lynn Hurtak

11:33:29AM Thank you.

Alan Clendenin

11:33:44AM Are we ready? I have a question for City Legal staff. The issue before us today is about the right-of-way and not ownership of property, correct? It's just whether the city is relinquishing the ability to build a road there.

Ron Wigginton

11:34:07AM Yes, sir. Legal Department. The only issue before the City Council today is whether the applicant has sustained their burden to establish that it serves the public interest to release the right-of-way. This is not any kind of determination or there should be no representation made as to who will ultimately obtain the fee. That is up to possibly the court or the property appraiser's office or certainly the private property owners. But it's not something for the city to resolve.

Alan Clendenin

11:34:39AM Thank you. Councilman Carlson.

Bill Carlson

11:34:43AM One other quick question. What are the rights and responsibilities for the adjacent property owners today?

Ron Wigginton

11:34:53AM So for right now, pursuant to section 1946 and 1950, basically they are responsible to maintain this right-of-way. But as far as liability, I can't really speak to that. Again that really deals with the fee interest and that's not something that we should opine on.

Alan Clendenin

11:35:14AM Thank you. Any other questions?

Naya Young

11:35:21AM I just want to confirm -- he already answered that question. So nothing can be built on this property, yes? Just confirming the information that we were given.

Ross Samons

11:35:36AM No, nothing can be built.

Alan Clendenin

11:35:40AM Hearing no other questions, anybody in the public that wishes to speak to this item? If you would line up on the wall, we'll call you up from the front. Who wants to go first? Tag, you're it. Start with your name, please. My name is Michael rich. I live on West Dryad Street in Sunset Park. Thank you for the opportunity to speak today. Considering there is a new member of the City Council, I thought it would be important to provide a little bit of a recap of the level of opposition there is to this application. You have received 17 e-mails from people in the community objecting to it, including from the Sunset Park homeowners association. We've got two petitions, one that was collected by hand, one collected digitally. 7 people attend the May 1st hearing in objection. And today, I count at least ten. So a lot of public opposition. The second thing I would like to do is reframe the discussion a little bit. I'll start with a little bit of history. Also on the agenda, you have a message forwarded from maryanne rhodes. Maryanne was a longtime resident of Sunset Park. She moved here in the 1960s. She noted in that message that people have used this property for recreation back from the 1960s and probably before that, all the way up until today. There's clearly a public good that it provides and public use. The applicant moved into their properties in 1987 and 2018 respectively knowing full well that there was a right-of-way there. So the idea that they framed around returning this property to them just doesn't float to me. It feels a little bit disingenuous. Mrs. Rhodes also informed me back in 1987 one of the applicants made a similar attempt at vacation application. That failed. October 1987, failed back then. I don't see any reason it should pass today. Third thing, address the notion that this application should be rubber stamped or treated like any other alleyway. I went back and pulled all of the applications to vacate from Tampa City Council the last two calendar years. There's 39 items. 18 of them are residential matters. Most of them are alleyways. 10 to 15 feet wide. This one is 50 feet wide and effectively 85 feet deep. I know they want to say it's only 55 feet deep. Effectively 85 feet deep. Of the 18 residential cases, only four of them have been approved. The four approved, one was for a fire station. The other three either had zero opposition or one person opposing them. So there is a degree of precedent that this City Council has set. The applications that have been denied, the most common reason was failure to provide a compelling evidence that it was in the public's best interest. You set the precedent. Most of these applications fail. This one in particular I think sets -- hits both of those precedents, public opposition and public good. I ask you to again deny this application. Thank you very much for your time.

11:38:45AM Thank you very much. Next. Start with your name please. I would like to thank the City staff for addressing the property rights concern because I feel like that shouldn't be addressed at this time, but it is not cut and dry. It is not clear who owns this. Does need to go to court of law to determine ownership because it was created in 1919. I want to bring this up just to show this is not a property rights issue. Even multiple title commitments have been issued on this showing the vested interest and the applicant, City of Tampa, back to the applicants, but I'm glad we're not discussing that today. What this applicant did not do is give the right-of-way to the city. This is not a random right-of-way traversing a single parcel owned by one entity to be redeveloped and not the form of debate who owns the property. Left up for a court to decide, not City Council. One thing not up for debate is this is a city right-of-way and any title commitment you pull is going to show reservations on it. Right here, this right-of-way is subject to the right and use of all other owners of the plat of the sunset camp community. Subject to the rights of the public and then also repairing and littoral rights. All property owners in the sunset camp plat have a right to access this right-of-way. If you vacate it, you'll be favoring rights of two property owners over the entire community. Number two what is not up for debate, if you approve this petition, this land will become private property. And that is an asset that the city would be giving up and I don't think that's -- yeah. Why should we vote to deny this application? This would restrict any potential access to the waterfront. Applicant and city have had discussions that the right-of-way does not touch the water, therefore it's not waterfront property. But it does touch creek and lands owned by the port. Therefore, I would ask the City Council to explore the option of petitioning the Port Authority to disclaim any right, title, or interest in the uplands created by the accretion to the City of Tampa to expand access to the waterfront for the citizens of the city. Which would also fall in line with the current land use code of the Tampa Comprehensive Plan and also the parks and rec's presentation to this City Council prioritize the development of greenways and multiuse trails for both neighborhood connectivity and regional connectivity and improve access to the water throughout the park system. I know this is not a park, but it is a right-of-way. Last, I would like to say, I don't believe the community is being unreasonable. We have tried to make contact with the applicant to discuss the concerns. Instead of engaging us in conversation, they decided to serve me with a cease and desist letter for contacting my local representatives to discuss this case. My hope is you all will deny this petition to vacate and uphold the public trust doctrine. No security concerns and a bunch of the neighbors in these communities are still displaced from the hurricane.

11:41:59AM Thank you. The first document, can you give that to the attorney so we can review that, please? All of them, I guess. Start with your name, please. My name is Steve holtzman. My wife gail and I purchased our home at 2201 South Venus Street in June 1986, close 40 years ago. Our home is one block from the property in question. None of the current homes on san gable were in existence in 1986 and, in fact, san gable did not exist at that time nor did Mr. Italiano own his home at that time. However, the right-of-way to the bay, and it was fully to the bay at that time, was in existence in 1986. And that access impressed us as part of our decision to purchase our home. Our home and others on our block are landlocked, this right-of-way provided direct access to the bay, apparently until just recently. The right-of-way adds value to our property and others in our neighborhood and should not be usurped for private gain. This right-of-way should remain accessible to the public for its enjoyment and benefit. We do not believe there is any reason or problem warranting removal of this right-of-way from the public domain, as this council has ruled on prior occasions. Granting this variance would result in an unwarranted, diminution of our property value and our neighbor's property, which already has been impacted by recent hurricanes. We ask that the council's prior decisions to deny the variance be upheld and that this request be denied once again. I might add personally, if the city wants to take an easement on the property for stormwater enhancement, I'm sure the neighbors would be receptive to that. But this proposal goes too far. Thank you.

11:44:25AM Thank you very much. Next speaker, start with your name. I live a couple of blocks from the greenspace. I feel like the bottom line is this. This is a greenspace that's good for the neighborhood and there's really no benefit in us losing this. Some neighbors I've talked to have enjoyed the space for over 30 years and they remember finding it when it happened before, when they tried to take it away. Anyway, it just has a lot of benefits. It was needed back then. It's needed now and even more so in the future, I think, because in our neighborhood, they are tearing down all the small houses, putting up huge houses and taking away a lot of the yards that would naturally be there and a lot of people are putting in fake grass. The fake grass heats up the ground and it doesn't absorb the water. So as far as flooding, it's just a flooding concern. A lot of us are worried about the environmental aspects of this. We just don't know, like, once that is gone, what's going to happen to that in the long run. We wouldn't be able to get that back. I had three feet of water in my garage last year, and a lot of our neighbors lost their homes. We're just very worried about that. As far as upkeep of that, our neighborhood association, Sunset Park neighborhood association has confirmed that they will, if necessary, we would be happy to take care of that space. We also need greenspaces for, like, young children in the neighborhood. I have a grandson who is two and it is a small, safe place. It is a really nice place that you can take young children to play. I heard safety being a reason for this petition. But the greenspace really makes our neighborhood safer. I think most of the neighbors that I have met have been like at that greenspace. We walk our dogs, chat, and knowing your neighbors, I think that is a proven way to improve safety. So I think that can only be a benefit. I don't believe there's been any arrests. I heard about the rumor about the neighbor who thought something was going on there. I think that was not true. We really feel like it is a very safe area. You've seen how much this little green area means to the neighborhood. So I hope you will take that into consideration and not take it away. Thank you.

11:47:01AM Thank you very much. Next speaker, start with your name, please. Hello and good morning, City Council. My name is natalie rhinehart. I reside in beautiful Sunset Park with my husband, our two sons and our dog. To anyone outside of South Tampa, this issue may seem small, maybe even insignificant, but in our community, open spaces and greenways are few and far between. Many of which are separated by busy roads and loads of traffic. This little greenspace is a little slice of paradise for our neighborhood. Let me tell you, it is the last, and that is a fact, little piece of undeveloped, unbuilt greenspace in our neighborhood. It is a parcel for neighbors to walk their dog, watch the sun set, chat with a neighbor, just get to know each other. But today I'm here as a mom, a job that I take extremely seriously. My number one goal as a mother is to raise children who are good humans and who will become contributing members of society one day and take pride in Tampa, like I do. One of the most important aspects of childhood is play, unstructured play. The kind of play where I have to sit back and let my kids use their imagination. A stick becomes a sword and suddenly they are a medieval knight fighting a dragon. In order to play, we have to provide two things, time and a safe place. My job is to provide the time and our job as the community, everyone in this room, is to provide the safe space. So, by vacating this right-of-way, you will deny all of the children in our community this small little greenspace to play on, kick a ball, play tag, set up a lemonade stand, imagine a totally new world. We don't need playground equipment. We don't need supplies. We just want to you keep this greenspace exactly as it's always been -- an open field for everyone in our community to enjoy if they'd like to. I know that many of you in this room are champions for public spaces and a sense of community, so please help me and help us in sunset camp to keep our kids outside instead of behind a screen. Secondarily, I am concerned that if the applicant's are granted this land that they will fence it in. It's actually what they have stated in their application. City Council Will have no say-so over that fencing. Fencing it in in any way will create a negative stormwater implication, plain and simple. It doesn't matter if it is a wall. It doesn't matter if it is a fence that water can flow through. No one in this room can say definitively how a storm will act or how water will flow when it needs to flow. This land has always served as the end of a canal where water can go safely where it needs to. Over one-fourth of the residents in Sunset Park are still displaced, so please help us to return home to a neighborhood that is better and not possibly worse. Thank you so, so much for your time on this issue.

11:50:16AM Thank you very much. Next speaker, start with your name, please. Good morning. Lauren rich. I live on West Dryad Street about five houses down from the right-of-way. In fact, when we moved into the neighborhood 12 years ago, I remember thinking how great it was to have a greenspace at the end of the street that was protected by the city. Then I had two children who are now ages 3 and 7 and have watched them learn to kick a soccer ball, play catch and run around on the greenspace. That's something of true value today where not many areas of south -- where many areas of South Tampa are overdeveloped and yards are small. Not only do we value the space personally, but there's also evidence that property values are increased when there are public areas accessible to private properties. A right-of-way is defined as a land dedicated, deeded to be used for a street, alleyway -- I'm going to paraphrase -- or other purpose by the public. Right-of-ways are held in trust for the benefit of the public. This City Council has the full discretion to determine whether this land continues to serve a public purpose and that is the only question before the City Council today. The overwhelming opposition to the application to vacate comes from residents of the neighborhood, including myself, who have said that the greenspace serves many public purposes. Open space for children to play, a place to walk the dogs, recreation, enjoying the outdoors to name a few. No one is asking for water access. The application also states security concerns and the request is to build a fence. If a fence is erected there is no benefit for the public there. If the City Council agrees that the land serves a public purpose, which we have clearly demonstrated, the city must deny the motion to vacate. In fact, I was doing a little bit of research and the supreme court determined in 1937 that the government cannot vacate a street for the benefit of a purely private interest. No one will benefit from the vacation except the adjacent landowners who will use the property for their own private interest and the neighborhood will be deprived of the greenspace. Citrus county commission was recently faced with a similar application to vacate by one of its own county commissioners who recused herself from the vote. She was hoping to put up a gate at the dead end road near her home in order to avoid traffic turning around so close. The commission denied the vote 4-0 due to lack of neighborhood buy-in and the opposition's position that such a request would have only benefited the movement and increased property values at the expense of the neighbors. The same conclusion should be reached here. We are not asking -- so usually the reverse is correct. If you are taking private property, you have to compensate. Here, public property is being provided to private. We're not asking for compensation but for the city to protect the public interest. Once vacated, it is vacated forever. Therefore I request you deny the motion. Rebecca barrenger. I'll keep my presentation short and sweet. I vehemently oppose this application as previous speakers and neighbors said this would take away land that our kids use. I'm a mother of two, also a soccer coach. We need the land. This is a land grab, pure and simple by two private citizens to fence in and make their yard bigger while reducing the public space. The only public space that we have left in our neighborhood. Plus, their presentation was so disingenuous, they said there were no objections. Look at all the people. We all object and there were two objections from the Mobility department in the original application. Took two months of negotiation, finally put up that no objection. Their presentation talks about security concerns. The only concern I have seen is when my daughter fell down and had to give her a band-aid because she was playing soccer. No security issues. That was ludicrous. Just a land grab. We know you'll do the right thing. Thank you.

11:54:30AM Thank you very much. Next speaker, please. I live on san jose. Just here to support my neighbors in opposing this application to vacate the property.

11:54:46AM Thank you very much. Next speaker. Carroll ann Bennett. Lifelong resident of South Tampa. I think the stormwater easement can probably be negotiated somehow separately from this. What I see here is an area of land that's available to anybody and everybody to use, including the two property owners that have asked, that are here today asking for this vacation. They can use it, but I was here for the first hearing, and they said they want to put up a fence which will mean that only they can use it and no one else can use it. And I don't really see how that benefits the public. I don't really see how that benefits the citizenry. It's basically going to fence out everybody else. The neighbors can Tuesday now. They don't have to put up a fence to use it. Thank you.

11:55:39AM Next speaker. Stephanie poynor. This is how much they are paying per square foot for this easement. Per square foot. I didn't know how big it was until the gentleman talked about it. 4250 square feet. $573 is what they are paying for this hearing. How much time has staff spent on this? This is yet another example of why we have to look at the fees in the City of Tampa. $573 is what they charged me five or six years ago to get an alleyway that was filthy, nasty, dirty, attached to my property. I would like to point out that they said that the Port of Tampa owns the area closest to the land, but we found out in la gaceta last week that the Port of Tampa is pulling in $11 million a year in our tax dollars, but they can't see fit to let the people who live in that community to access the water? That's jacked up. Honestly, I hope, because this is the second time around. Carroll ann said she spoke last time. I did, too. I'm really thoroughly confused how we got back here with a vacation again instead of it being an appeal. This is one of the most interesting things to me that I've seen in this whole case. Whether you like it or not, that's not fair market value for our land. Why are we giving away our property that belongs to the City of Tampa for 14 cents a square foot? You can't buy anything else for 14 cents a square foot. Why are we doing it again? Did it last time. Sure a lot more now because big-dollar attorney standing up here. But ultimately, that's what they are paying the City of Tampa. The attorneys sitting here cost more than that. We've gotten screwed once again. Thanks, bob buckhorn, for not raising any fees for the whole time you were in office. Thanks the current administration for screwing around with it for years.

11:57:47AM Next speaker, please. William malloy. 325 South Boulevard. I speak just as a spokesperson for several of the people that you have already heard from. I don't want to compromise their message for one second. It is the neighborhood's message. I heard something startling which was not presented in the first hearing. If it is appropriate, I would like clarification on it. Is there, in fact, a conservation easement on this piece of property or on this parcel or is it just going to be the stormwater and access? Because as I understand it, a conservation easement is perpetual as opposed to permanent. And I think a perpetual easement that actually guaranteed, whether it was before this council or any future council, that none of this could be unwound and this property developed would go a tremendously long ways to assuaging all these concerns.

11:58:45AM During rebuttal of staff, we can -- we don't provide testimony.

Martin Shelby

11:58:52AM If the City Council wishes, they will address that with staff in order to be able to do that. Whatever is said here can be addressed also by the applicant at rebuttal. That would conclude what I have on this. We strongly feel that even with the easements in place, those can be unwound. There is nothing on this piece of property that can't be undone that makes it buildable. I'm a professional at doing that. I understand it. I very respectfully stand with the neighborhood and request that you deny the petition.

Alan Clendenin

11:59:25AM Thank you, Mr. Malloy. Applicant rebuttal. Mr. Shelby.

Martin Shelby

11:59:31AM My suggestion is that if council has any questions of the applicant or the staff of any subject that came up during public comment, that you address those questions before you give the applicant rebuttal for last word.

Alan Clendenin

11:59:45AM I concur with that advice. We'll go to q & a before we give you an opportunity for rebuttal so you can wrap everything together. Councilman Maniscalco.

Guido Maniscalco

11:59:53AM I heard Mr. Hudson say at the beginning shrubs is what you could put there. But then from the public I heard fencing. So what are the restrictions should this be granted? Are they allowed to put a fence? Are they stuck to having to put small -- I see grass or small shrubbery. No permanent or temporary structures. Is a fence considered, if it is a chain-link fence is that temporary or permanent? Obviously you can take it apart. What are the restrictions?

Ross Samons

12:00:31PM A fence would be, in my opinion, considered a temporary structure.

Guido Maniscalco

12:00:35PM A fence would be allowed?

Ross Samons

12:00:40PM Not necessarily, no. department's approval. If there's concern about whether temporary -- Tyler Hudson, 400 North Ashley Drive. In my experience, Ron and I have worked on a lot of these ones, a fence is a structure, it is a temporary structure. Give council more confidence to add that in there, that's fine. The goal is that you can't do anything here other than grass or shrubs without the Mobility department's approval. And I think that this ordinance says that.

Alan Clendenin

12:01:13PM Thank you.

Guido Maniscalco

12:01:14PM One other question was, so if this is denied, do they have to still maintain the property? Are they required to maintain it no matter what happens today? We are seeking to replace this being right-of-way, which benefits the public, now have a stormwater easement that benefits the public, which you don't currently have despite there being gravity mains that drain this neighborhood beneath the earth. This is trade of one type of easement for another.

12:01:47PM Thank you very much.

Alan Clendenin

12:01:48PM I have a question for staff reference the stormwater easement. So the stormwater easement is something we currently do not have but we have stormwater infrastructure underneath this property?

Ross Samons

12:02:07PM I would like Ron to answer that.

Ron Wigginton

12:02:10PM Legal Department. Tyler and I may have little bit of a disagreement here. When you have a right-of-way, it as super easement. Multiple things that can be put in the right-of-way. Mobility, automobile, pedestrian, utilities, utilities are primarily. The only reason how we're able to reserve an easement from this ordinance is because we have the right to have that in there because it is a right-of-way.

Alan Clendenin

12:02:39PM Mr. Hudson, wait for rebuttal? Thing as super easements. You have stormwater gravity mains right there. Right-of-way absent any other dedication on the plat which they will often say, write in calligraphy in 1919 this is for public utilities, things like that, did not say that. It is a road for dryad street. Right-of-way is a surface-level right of access for the general public to travel to and from a place like from a road to the shoreline, which was the plan in 1919. That never happened because the road never got built. That's city GIS. You have stormwater facility in this right-of-way. You do not have a stormwater easement. If you approve this, you get one. It's permanent and covers the entire blue area. It doesn't just cover the halo around the actual lines. All of the land goes from being encumbered from one kind of easement to another kind of easement. That's it. That's all this is about.

12:03:40PM The city's position is that you do have a current easement on that? When you say supereasement, what is that referencing in law? Limited by specific utility. It can be for multiple reasons, multiple public purposes. That's why we don't have an easement over this area because it is a considered a right-of-way. Again, utilities can go into rights-of-way. And this is what I would consider as such a utility.

12:04:12PM Read to me -- your predecessors on the Tampa City Council passed a resolution asking the Port Authority to give them a stormwater easement. Hereby request the Tampa Port Authority. Hasn't happened.

12:04:30PM It was not acted upon? A lot of people have pulled title on this. There is not a stormwater easement. This is the dead end of dryad street.

12:04:41PM Councilwoman Young, you had a question?

Naya Young

12:04:45PM Yes, a few questions. I just want to be clear on exactly who owns this parcel of land. It came in public comment. I want to know exactly who is it. Is it city owned? Is it the property owners on the left and the right?

Ron Wigginton

12:05:12PM I'm sorry. I didn't hear your whole question. Heard part of it. You asked if the city owns the area in fee?

Naya Young

12:05:19PM It came up in public comment like the ownership of this property. I'm just wondering who, is it the city that owns the property?

Ron Wigginton

12:05:28PM No, ma'am. The city does not own the underlying fee at all. I'm pretty sure that is undisputed.

Naya Young

12:05:35PM Is it the two homeowners on the left and the right that own the property?

Ron Wigginton

12:05:39PM This is not something that the city usually gets into who gets the underlying fee once the vacating occurs, if it occurs. The situation is quite unique. This is part of one big plat at one time and many other plats got carved out of this bigger plat. So that could have an effect as to who gets the fee. I don't know. It's up to the court to make the determination.

Naya Young

12:06:02PM Legally what can the city do with this space, legally?

Ron Wigginton

12:06:09PM We can use it as a right-of-way because it is platted as a right-of-way. We can't use it as a park because it is not platted as park. Can't use it for any other reason other than the purpose of it being platted as a right-of-way for.

Alan Clendenin

12:06:25PM Did you guys reach a resolution of your discussion over here? The city's position on your claim --

12:06:42PM I want to make sure we're simpatico. Doesn't own the land. We're in q & a.

12:06:52PM Is there a point between the applicant and the City staff to stipulate, we can stipulate the fact that the city does not own this property? Yes.

12:07:05PM There's no conflict. The city does not own the property. The adjacent property owners own the property. Land is owned down the middle by the neighbors on either side. It is not owned by the city.

12:07:21PM No, no. you can't talk during this point. Mr. Shelby, you have something to add.

Martin Shelby

12:07:27PM I think the City Legal Department has made it clear that the issue here is the fact that the city does not own the property. As to who owns the property is not the city's business. That is going to be taken up as it was done, as Mr. Hudson said, that was going to have to be resolved to which the city is not a party.

Alan Clendenin

12:07:54PM Strike even who actually owns the property. We just know the city does not.

Ron Wigginton

12:07:59PM Correct. Yes, sir. We're not making any representation as to who does. In fact, want to be sure that it is up to the neighborhood, adjacent property owners to resolve that issue in the court of law. But in our particular case, again, since we have a right-of-way, we don't need a stormwater easement. If we get rid of the right-of-way, then we will need a stormwater easement because that is the mechanism by which we can remain in that area. I've been clear about that.

Alan Clendenin

12:08:28PM If this council approves this request, what we're approving, only difference between today and tomorrow if this is approved is that the city is not going to build a road on the surface of this property.

Ron Wigginton

12:08:43PM Ever, correct.

Alan Clendenin

12:08:44PM Only thing giving away.

Ron Wigginton

12:08:46PM Correct.

Alan Clendenin

12:08:47PM What else are we giving away? Anything else we're giving away?

Ron Wigginton

12:08:50PM No, sir. We're giving away the right-of-way interest. We're keeping a stormwater interest and TECO also has their easement reserved as well.

Alan Clendenin

12:08:59PM Can I simplify this and say that the question before us, is the city ever going to have an interest building a road on the property?

Ron Wigginton

12:09:08PM That would be up to mobility to make that decision.

Alan Clendenin

12:09:11PM If that is the only thing before us, whether a road will be built.

Ron Wigginton

12:09:15PM Mobility hasn't objected to the request. I assume they have no ambition --

Alan Clendenin

12:09:19PM My question is, the only thing we're giving up is the ability for the city to build a road on the surface of this property.

Ron Wigginton

12:09:27PM Yes, sir.

Alan Clendenin

12:09:28PM Is there anybody else in the city that wants to contest that statement? Mr. Shelby, any observations, legal points?

Martin Shelby

12:09:43PM No, sir, other than the testimony that you've heard and the statements of the Legal Department.

Alan Clendenin

12:09:51PM I see all the nods and the emotion back there. We're trying to get down to the nuts and bolts of this.

Martin Shelby

12:10:02PM I guess a question could be asked of the Legal Department, other than a road, what else can the city do with the property?

Alan Clendenin

12:10:15PM Other than a road, what can the city do with this property?

Ron Wigginton

12:10:18PM Currently right now we can build a road, build sidewalks, put utilities in there, we can do anything that we normally would do with a right-of-way. If we get rid of the right-of-way, we are now only going to have it for the purpose of a stormwater easement. Then, of course, there's still going to be a TECO easement over it as well. That would be the only use for it going forward if this is approved.

Alan Clendenin

12:10:38PM Could you use it as public park space or public use space?

Ron Wigginton

12:10:42PM No, sir because it's not platted as such. There are many plats that dedicate pocket parks, show dedication of park. In this case it was dedicated as a right-of-way. There's no other way that I can think of to interpret it.

Charlie Miranda

12:10:56PM Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ron, if the city, this is an exception to what we see other right-of-way places that we sign off and say, yeah, you can have that 30 feet or 25 feet or 10 feet, whatever it is around your house that nobody owns so we don't own any right-of-way?

Ron Wigginton

12:11:15PM No. sometimes we do because we do acquire property for the purpose of having a right-of-way. There's, in fact, one case that I can think of right off the top of my head where it was seven foot platted alleyway. Obviously, can't use that as a right-of-way. Had to acquire property right next to it to make it into a 20-foot right-of-way, so you can actually use it. Then we owned the underlying fee because we acquired it and using it for right-of-way purpose. Most cases, no. rights-of-way are dedicated by plats and they don't give us the fee.

Charlie Miranda

12:11:48PM When it goes back however it was platted sometime back.

Ron Wigginton

12:11:52PM Well, again, it depends on the plats and the circumstances, who gets what. That's why we keep going back in a circle around here. There are some occasions where you split it down the middle and abutting property owners acquire it. Other cases where only one side acquires it because only part of one subdivision and not part of another subdivision which is on the other side of the alley way.

Charlie Miranda

12:12:15PM You're saying they are all different.

Ron Wigginton

12:12:17PM They are all different.

Charlie Miranda

12:12:18PM Thank you.

Alan Clendenin

12:12:19PM Councilwoman Young and Councilman Carlson.

Naya Young

12:12:21PM Do we know if there are any parks or greenspaces nearby? Where is the closest?

Ron Wigginton

12:12:33PM I think there is one on Westshore and bay to bay.

Naya Young

12:12:36PM How far is that from this space? Might be the newest park. Bay to Bay Boulevard park. Three-minute bike ride, 13-minute walk. It's a park. It is an actual maintained park that was very recently opened by the city. Mr. Yerrid may touch on that in a second. There is a, quote, real city-maintained park very close by that serves the neighborhood.

12:13:10PM Thank you.

Alan Clendenin

12:13:12PM Councilman Carlson.

Bill Carlson

12:13:14PM Mr. Wigginton, so you said it depends on how the property is platted as to what it could be used for. If there was a push -- hypothetical, if there was a push to say we need to make this into a park, is it possible for the city as it stands right now to turn it into a park?

Ron Wigginton

12:13:43PM I would have to give that more thought just to answer you off the cuff. I think it would be some dedication would need to be made to make it into a park. There may be some eminent domain that may be required to turn it into a park. We wouldn't have to do that if we can keep it as a right-of-way. I need to give that some more thought and figure out maybe a possible way.

Bill Carlson

12:14:06PM You said because of the mobility easement that a sidewalk could -- hypothetically could a sidewalk be built in the middle all the way, if the port allowed, all the way to the water?

Ron Wigginton

12:14:22PM If we go on port property, we'd have to get an easement from them.

Bill Carlson

12:14:25PM Set that aside. Just the first 55 feet.

Ron Wigginton

12:14:29PM Yeah, generally speaking, that's correct.

Bill Carlson

12:14:32PM I know you don't want to talk about ownership, but if somebody got hurt on that property today, who would be liable for it?

Ron Wigginton

12:14:40PM That I don't think I can answer for a couple of reasons.

Bill Carlson

12:14:43PM If somebody called the police and said someone is in that property and shouldn't be there, how would the police decide whether --

Ron Wigginton

12:14:52PM I can speculate. I imagine police would have a hard time figuring out who the property owner is to evict them, extract them.

Bill Carlson

12:15:01PM What you're saying not an easy answer for the police to say who controls it.

Ron Wigginton

12:15:05PM Correct. Very difficult for them to determine that.

Alan Clendenin

12:15:13PM Hold on.

12:15:19PM Okay. Mr. Yerrid, go ahead. Start with your name please. I wanted to thank my councilman Mr. Carlson for the reconsideration. There are some things occurred at the last one. Glad we're getting a fair shake. I ask for nothing more. The answer to your question is we are. Who is liable? We are. We are. That's what I do for a living. If some kid is playing on that vacant lot and runs out, no fence, some kid runs out on the street, hit by a car, we're liable. Somebody breaks their name or becomes a quadriplegic, we're liable. I can assure you the depth pockets of the city are not more than $300,000 deep. If someone gets severely hurt, they will get a lawyer and we will be sued.

Bill Carlson

12:16:08PM What if they are on Mr. Italiano's side?

12:16:15PM Your opinion is that if the part to Mr. Italiano's side, he would be -- Mr. Italiano would be liable if they were on his side. You would be liable if they were on your side. We both would be sued and both be in a courtroom. I wouldn't point my finger at Mr. Italiano. And I don't think anybody would be taking a measurement which side of the field they were when they got hurt.

Alan Clendenin

12:16:54PM Councilpersons have any other questions? This is your opportunity for rebuttal.

Martin Shelby

12:17:00PM Five minutes. That is standard for rebuttal.

Alan Clendenin

12:17:03PM Five-minute rebuttal. For both of the applicants. I'll be quick. I recognize the hour and the patience. Tyler Hudson, 400 North Ashley Drive. Mr. Yerrid is going to give the majority of the rebuttal. I want to comment, we're all familiar. We're here a lot. We're familiar that applicants and opponents don't always see eye to eye. Bear witness to that as long as council exists. I haven't seen a case where the applicant and a lot of the opposition seems to be operating in just different factual realms. All of this request revolves around what I mentioned at the very beginning of my presentation and what's been alluded to in this discussion, is do you want to trade an easement for a road you are never going to build for an easement that you need and don't have for stormwater. That's it. There's been talk about this being a private land grab. It's not. This is privately owned land. Not an ounce of evidence has been put forth to the contrary. It's on the water, not on the water. Tampa Port Authority owns the land next door. If you think they want to build a park, okay. It's not a park. Parkland Estates, Swann Circle, equally old plats like a treasure map, kid's menu at seafood restaurant, they draw park. This isn't that. It's a road. With that, I'll turn things over to my client, Mr. Yerrid. Say that your predecessor was a wonderful civil servant and she will be missed. Although your opponent was a good friend of mine for many decades, maybe it's time to pass the baton. Not sure but welcome. I will tell you that I don't like rebuttals and don't like hostility and definitely sick of divisiveness. Hate to hear people ridicule and talk from the back of the room. The way I was raised was truth both in professional and personal life. I could have had a hundred people here at least to support what we're doing. They remain silent because they don't think it is an issue. What is an issue and want to be clear, I moved into Sunset Park in 1964. I attended plant high school. I lived on sunset boulevard. 4827 Sunset Boulevard. That field that we're talking about was just that when I became accomplished enough to buy that field and turn it into my residence. Son's residence and two grandchildren residence. I resent the fact that somehow I am a newcomer and trying to do a land grab. Everyone on this City Council knows who I am and nobody would believe that I'm trying to do a land grab here. I'm trying to prevent personal liability. I'm trying to prevent people that are not intended to be there, I certainly don't think it would be my neighbors, people not intended to be there at 1:00, 2:00, 3:00 in the morning. I've got a three-year-old grandson that lives right there on the side of the property across from italiano and a seven-month-old granddaughter. My name is not unknown. You all know I've had the skyway bridge case and the tobacco case for the State of Florida. I've had five death threats in both of those cases. Five. Do you think that I'm not known, worry at night what will happen to the grandchildren -- come after me. The point is, I was very aware we didn't have a place in Sunset Park for the kids to play. I'm extremely aware of that. I have grandchildren. My son was a little boy when I built that house on the field that I used to fish from. I am the one, along with others, certainly others are more important, to help get that park built and established. You know what that park has now? That park has a huge area. Costs us about half a million dollars. Land grab, that park has got a metal fence around it. The city put in two speed bumps on Westshore to slow the traffic that is so out of control sometimes. The people fly down dundee. Ask any of the neighbors, the ones that protested. People fly down dundee. One of the kids darts out without a fence there without anything there, one of the kids darts out and gets hit, what do you think will happen? Gee, somebody should have done something about that. Stoplight should have been there. Hindsight. They never owned the property. Was never a park. I wish we were under oath. If I were under oath, I would tell you in the 35 years I built the subdivision and put my house there and brought my mother to see what I was able -- her son was able to accomplish, I have never, never seen anybody kayak or fish there. Never. As far as soccer, the kids were playing soccer until the older adults started drinking beer and raising hell there in the middle of the day. Excuse me, not in the middle of the day, after they got off of work into the wee hours of the night. They don't remember that, they weren't living there. That's why. I don't mean to be hostile. I'm not an angry person. You have a job to do. If I was trying to turn this into a park or some game, I would have done it. I don't want to go to court over this. Sorry I took too much time.

12:22:27PM Okay. That concludes the case. What is the pleasure of council? Motion to close? Motion to close from Councilman Viera. Second from Councilman Maniscalco. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? The ayes have it unanimously.

12:22:43PM Motion to reopen from Councilman Maniscalco. Second from Hurtak. All in favor, aye.

Ron Wigginton

12:22:49PM One more comment to make just to be clear because there's been a lot of comments back and forth. Ron Wigginton, Legal Department. There's been some comments made about our stormwater facilities being there illegally, allegedly because we don't have an easement. Again, I just wanted to repeat myself and say it is not the case. This is a right-of-way. We have our stormwater facilities there legally. If we get rid of the right-of-way, that's why we are going to be retaining an easement so we can remain there. Thank you.

Alan Clendenin

12:23:23PM For the record, applicant, do you want to rebut that? I think we are at the end of this.

12:23:32PM Motion to close from Councilman Maniscalco. Second from Councilman Viera. All in favor, aye. Ayes have it unanimously. What is the pleasure of council? Councilman Viera.

Luis Viera

12:23:44PM I'll read it and see where it goes. 54. Move an ordinance presented for first reading consideration, an ordinance of the City of Tampa, Florida, vacating, closing, discontinuing and abandoning a portion of West Dryad Street right-of-way located of North San Gable Court, of South San Miguel Street, east of Old Tampa Bay, and of West Dundee Street within the plat of sunset camp subdivision in the City of Tampa, Hillsborough county, Florida as more fully described in section 2 hereof, subject to certain covenants, conditions and restrictions as more particularly set forth herein, providing for enforcement and penalties for violations, providing for definitions, interpretations and repealing conflicts, providing for severability, providing an effective date.

Alan Clendenin

12:24:26PM We have a motion from Councilman Viera. Is there a second?

Charlie Miranda

12:24:31PM I'll second it for discussion and see what happens.

Alan Clendenin

12:24:34PM Second from Councilman Miranda. Discussion. Councilman Carlson?

Bill Carlson

12:24:46PM We heard part of this before and both sides have very compelling arguments in this. There are a lot of questions I have still. One big one is that they say that the underlying ownership has to be resolved within the courts or in some other area. With that not being resolved, right now, I'm going to vote no just because we don't have a clear indication as to who owns it. If that is cleared by the courts and they come back and it shows that each adjacent property owner owns that, then we probably would have to go forward. But in the case where there is a question on that or confusion about it, I would vote no for now.

Alan Clendenin

12:25:27PM Any other discussion? I'll say that this is a really -- emotionally, it is really difficult because my heart is with the neighborhood and everybody, people were saying, the problem is, one of the reasons why I supported the motion to reconsider on this is because thinking through the process and what you heard today about the ownership of the issue. I started thinking about consistency with past decisions of this council when we provide these votes. Honestly, the consistency was felt like little prejudicial in favor of the neighborhoods. I raise my kids south and a lot of friends in the area. I felt you were giving the neighborhood more deference. Like, if the issue came up in East Tampa or somewhere else, I would have voted to vacate in a second. We do it all the time. We do these vacations with the exception of alleys. We don't vacate alleys anymore, for the most part, except for ones that are just not usable anymore. That's part of my thing. I really struggle with that. The equity of our decision making and I felt like I was not being equitable in the decision making on that first go-around. Based on the information I'm getting, I'm really empathetic with what you guys are saying. I see you back there. It seems this problem right now, there's no compelling because the interest is this was plotted out to be an extension of the roadway. We're giving up the ability for the city to extend the roadway. We will retain the easement -- we'll actually have a new clearly defined easement for stormwater. It doesn't go to the water. It is a 51, 49. I think I am 51 on the property owners on this one.

Charlie Miranda

12:27:22PM I want to echo what you said. I've been here a little bit of time from 1974 to 79, come back to '95. In my 31 years of public service, this is the damnedest one I've heard in my life. We own the land, don't own the land, have the right-of-way, not our right-of-way, other guy's right-of-way. Play soccer, can drink, can't drink. This is like a movie. Who in the hell did what? I'm confused as the rest of you. I feel for both sides. I can't vote down the middle. That is the problem I'm facing. This has change from the first time to 15, 20 degrees one way or the other. Therefore, I agree with what you're saying, Mr. Chairman.

Alan Clendenin

12:28:06PM Councilman Viera and then Councilwoman Hurtak.

Luis Viera

12:28:08PM Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There are a lot of things in life that are black and white where it is a definite answer and then gray. This is obviously a case with a lot of gray. I think we can all agree on that, that there is a lot of spirit on both sides, no folks -- know folks on both sides. A lot of good people I know and whatnot. Way I see it, consistent with how I voted the first time around, what the city would be prospectively giving up I think is overcome to the extent we give up anything is vastly overcome by the risk management or the liability that property owners presently have by having this property as it is right now. That is a very, very, very heavy burden for these property owners to carry, that continues to justify my vote in the first hearing. Thank you.

Alan Clendenin

12:28:56PM Councilwoman Hurtak followed by Councilman Maniscalco.

Lynn Hurtak

12:28:59PM For me, I just didn't hear anything new. So my vote isn't changing.

Alan Clendenin

12:29:06PM Councilman Maniscalco.

Guido Maniscalco

12:29:07PM To echo what Councilman Viera said regarding the liability issue and what I heard in the closing remarks, this is america, and everybody sues. They find -- no offense to the attorneys. I did want to go to law school, but the liability issue, and it was brought up, what if somebody gets hurt, what if, again, you know, I mean that opens up quite a door. That was concerning to me. Thank you.

Alan Clendenin

12:29:36PM Councilwoman Hurtak.

Lynn Hurtak

12:29:37PM But that was the exact same argument they gave us last time. Again, nothing has changed. We've just given them another bite at the apple. But for me, like, I didn't get any new testimony. I don't have anything that says I should change my vote. So I can't support this.

Alan Clendenin

12:29:59PM Any other discussion? Okay. Roll call vote, please.

Luis Viera

12:30:04PM Yes.

Bill Carlson

12:30:05PM No.

Charlie Miranda

12:30:06PM Yes.

Guido Maniscalco

12:30:08PM Yes.

Lynn Hurtak

12:30:10PM No.

Naya Young

12:30:11PM No.

Alan Clendenin

12:30:15PM Yes.

The clerk

12:30:19PM The motion carries with Carlson, Hurtak, and young voting no. second reading and adoption will be held on December 4, 2025 At 10 a.m. in City Council Chambers, 315 East Kennedy Boulevard, third floor, Tampa, Florida, 33602.

Steve Michelini

12:30:46PM Thank you, council.

Alan Clendenin

12:30:47PM I don't want to scare Councilwoman Young off, they are not normally this hard. This is a tough one. You're done now.

Lynn Hurtak

12:30:56PM December 4.

Alan Clendenin

12:31:00PM Council, it is lunchtime. It is 12:31. Can we do an hour or do we need a little bit more? 1:30. We are at lunch for one hour. 1:30. 1:30. [Lunch recess]

01:34:53PM I would like to call City Council back to order. Roll call, please.

Charlie Miranda

01:34:56PM Here.

Lynn Hurtak

01:35:00PM Here.

Alan Clendenin

01:35:01PM Here.

Naya Young

01:35:03PM Here.

Luis Viera

01:35:04PM Here.

Bill Carlson

01:35:05PM Here.

Clerk

01:35:05PM You have a quorum.

Alan Clendenin

01:35:08PM Thank you so much. Council member Maniscalco has entered the room. We left off with item number 55. First reading consideration.

Andrea Zelman

01:35:21PM Good afternoon, council. Andrea Zelman, city attorney. Welcome to Councilwoman Young. I asked Camaria to give me a few minutes. Some of you I briefed some of the issues before, but I ask you to indulge me and give you a little background before Camaria walks you through the ordinance partly for the benefit of our newest council member and to respond to some issues that have been raised recently as this morning. I want to make sure everyone is understanding and speaking specifically to the question, why did we hire outside counsel to become the special magistrate and what does all that mean. So just for background, April of last year -- that April we were using volunteer special magistrates for Code Enforcement. And for quite some time, we were having difficulty. We needed more. I think we were down to two. They obviously had scheduling conflicts. They are not being paid. You can't blame them for sometimes not showing up. Camaria, assistants, and others in my office reaching out to people they knew. We couldn't find anyone willing to beef up our volunteer core. That was one issue. Because of the fact that a lot of our hearings were being cancelled because down to two and sometimes one wouldn't show up. We had an 18-month backlog in Code Enforcement cases. 18 months. As I say to you all whenever I have opportunity, there is no place having a code if we can't enforce it. When we can't get a case for hearing for 18 months after it is right for hearing, that really makes some of our provisions, you know, what is the point then. And then the final point is we have -- and I don't -- I don't want to embarrass everyone. I don't want to name names, and I don't want to talk about cases, but we had a number of cases -- one as recently as yesterday, we got a court order for summary judgment in an ongoing case where the judge specifically said that the order issued by one of our special magistrates was deficient. I don't want to get into specifics because this is ongoing litigation. I heard comments to the effect that now we have an attorney doing this work, it is like a real court. It is not the friendly neighborhood atmosphere it used to be. Well, it is a court. Property rights are being impacted. And anyone, whether it is the neighbor complaining about the what is going on at the neighbor's house or the person who has been cited should want that. You should want a professional that understands property right making the decisions on Code Enforcement matters. One final point to that part that in the time we were discussing and going ahead and hiring an outside council, there was a bill pending in last year's legislative session that would have required Code Enforcement special magistrates to be attorneys and ended up not moving forward, but actually that kind of piqued the idea that maybe we should go ahead and hire outside counsel to be the Code Enforcement magistrate. It makes sense. These are private property rights that are being impacted. As you recall back in 2022, we brought to you a form agreement for outside counsel services. We brought you a list of law firms that responded to a RFQ. Last June, we increased the annual amount that those law firms can charge in a given year, partly to cover this issue. One of the firms that responded to our RFQ was the firm of trask daigneualt. They are well-known and a firm in pinellas county that represents at least 16 cities as city attorney. And then there are four cities in which they serve as either a Code Enforcement special magistrate or the legal advisor to a Code Enforcement board. Just to be clear, no one from our office can serve as the magistrate. There is case law to that effect as well. Because our office is prosecuting the Code Enforcement case, someone else has to serve as the magistrate. And to the suggestion that a paid outside counsel would have a bias and conflict of interest. With all due respect, that is nonsensical for many reasons. There are cities and counties that are doing what they are doing. Hired an attorney to be a special magistrate. They have to be paid by the city. That is how we pay them. But to suggest that their bias is unfair, it is inappropriate. They are all members of the bar. They understand what their duties are as a special magistrate. Code Enforcement is governed by statute, governed by our code and case law. They are trying to find a way, or not way. To suggest there is bias because we are paying them or because I hired them -- just for the record, I never met the person that we hired to be the special magistrate until recently until I attended a hearing to see how he was conducting the hearings. This isn't -- to suggest that I am somehow influencing this person or whatever is just -- it is very inappropriate and untrue. So I just wanted to kind of set the table for that, to just to make sure you understand why we did what we we did. We were kind of in -- not kind of, but we were in an emergency situation with this 18-month backlog, and we had to do something. Oh, and one other point, when we had volunteer magistrates, we also were paying an outside counsel to be the legal advisor magistrates. We no longer have to do that because we have an attorney as the magistrate. He doesn't need someone else's legal advice of how to conduct the hearing. Again tom trask, the person doing this does this in other jurisdictions he is very familiar with the Code Enforcement statute and our code now, any relevant case law. I am very comfortable with him. I think if you were to watch him, you would see that, again, he is conducting the hearings with the correct due process that should be provided to a property owner in these cases. So I just wanted to make those points and let Camaria walk you through unless you have a question.

Alan Clendenin

01:43:25PM Councilwoman Hurtak.

Lynn Hurtak

01:43:27PM I have a question. I am curious if there was legal representation, why those lawyers didn't look over any judgments before they were filed to prevent the type of legal issues, court issues you are talking about.

Andrea Zelman

01:43:46PM That is a good question. I don't know if we ever asked them -- we had one attorney -- and I don't know that we asked him. Would have been a good idea in retrospect, but, you know, again, that -- yeah, I can't answer that. I don't know why we didn't do that sooner.

Lynn Hurtak

01:44:10PM I appreciate you doing this. I spent all day at Code Enforcement hearings. The morning ones were sad. I mean it was just -- it was very sad. I do see the point. We were -- a lot of the cases were in Sulphur Springs. People who couldn't afford to fix these things. It was -- and the fines were -- were substantial. Andmi was uncomfortable, I will say. But the part that really upset me was the afternoon session where there was an hour and 20 some odd minute hearing before the magistrate realized that he had the wrong case -- or it was the wrong -- it was the wrong person they had -- that staff had cited. And a waste of a hour and a half. I don't want to talk about specific cases because I understand we can't get into that. That was a real disappointment. I was expecting to have a magistrate who knew the work, and that's what I showed me.

Andrea Zelman

01:45:22PM That my understanding was on staff, not him.

Lynn Hurtak

01:45:26PM He didn't catch it for an hour and a half. When he finally caught it, he was able -- I appreciate you coming up and saying this, but I will be honest, yesterday left me with a lot more questions and a lot more concerns.

Andrea Zelman

01:45:40PM If I can address one thing you said. You talked of the fines, and Camaria will talk about this. Our goal is not to collect fines but to get properties in compliance. When we have a settlement policy where typically -- if someone brings a property into compliance, we will settle with them in the hundreds of dollars and maximum $5,000. And that is in the most egregious cases. We are not there to collect money, but sometimes you have to put the fines on to get the attention. We have a lot of cases where out-of-town property owners buy houses, and they let them fall into disrepair. They don't care because five years later when they flip it, then someone can work out a deal with the city, but until then, we have got the fines running. We have the lien and that gets their attention. Our goal though -- our goal is always to try to get the property into compliance. And that is why, you know, in the CRA, you have programs that help people who don't have the money. Maybe get grants to do clean-up work or whatever which is a whole other subject. But, yes, the fines sound bad, but the goal is not to collect them. Goal to incentivize somebody to go out there and clean the property up.

Lynn Hurtak

01:47:02PM Again, I had conversations with miss Pettis-mackle about this and with staff about this. This is the part I don't understand. Why are we fining people and giving them these fines. These are people that are already struggling. When you see picture of their houses, you know why the house is the way it is. They cannot afford to get it. And instead, we are fining them by the day, and they don't know at the end how they are going to be able to basically do for pennies on the dollar. I understand what you are saying and needs to be a bit of a balance. If there is a different, you know, fee structure for homeowner-occupied versus, you know, a rental property. For me, again, I just had a lot more questions than answers. What I want to see at the end of this, I would like a workshop and debate Code Enforcement because we've lot of things we need to fix. And yesterday absolutely solidified that for me.

Andrea Zelman

01:48:15PM Two things. You know, we have a code, and we want to enforce it. So we have to be careful about saying, well, but in this case, I don't know if we should -- that is the flipside is, what is the point of enacting all these code regulations as to the proper care of property and keeping it from getting overgrown, and we have to be careful of being selective. And I will also note, that, yes, things that we can workshop, but the overall structure Code Enforcement is governed by state statute, and I will let Camaria get into that because she knows it a lot better than I.

Alan Clendenin

01:49:04PM Don't move. Council member Viera, Miranda, and Maniscalco.

Luis Viera

01:49:10PM Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Real quick on a few things. I have no objection of the proposal for attorneys. I think that is something that obviously can be a benefit. Without getting into specific cases, in a lot of land use cases, look at certain things -- I look at some cases a certain way because I am an attorney. I look at exposure -- I never done land use in my life. Like I said, I am not going to write a political check that be can bounce later in circuit court. It is what it is. But my challenge is a couple of things. If I do go forward with this, I would like to see maybe a year from now what budget impact this has in terms of how much money we are spending on this. I think that is important to note. I do think that just because they are attorneys doesn't make them necessarily better or worse on some things. There is the knowledge and the wherewithal is very important and something that Councilwoman Hurtak said is empathy and compassion. We agree on situations like this. An attorney can know the exposure that exists to the city, doing things right and so forth, but something to be said. He know we all agree about that of mercy and compassion on things like this. We have the debate on judges, and we see at the a lot in the federal level following the letter of the law following compassion, living constitution, whatever. I think that is important. Perhaps we can look at bar associations that I think are more socially challenging, George edgecomb bar association, for example. And look at some of those organizations where you will get people that will look at the bigger picture. The thing on attorneys is very well taken. I would be supportive of that. But number one, budget within a year, and number two, go fishing in a bond where we can get good compassionate people that understand kindness and empathy. These TPD of things can destroy somebody. We need folks with heart. Thank you.

Alan Clendenin

01:51:17PM Councilman Carlson.

Bill Carlson

01:51:18PM You know because we talked about this before a perception by a lot of people in the public that there is bias in the city overall, not by everybody, but in certain areas. The general feeling if a property owner hires one or two or three lobbyists they get what they want and everybody else gets screwed. Whether that is true or not, I don't know, but that the perception of the public. You know that -- in my opinion, as I have observed, that carries over to legal advice. And, you know, something that we are going to need to fix in the charter next week is further defining who the client of the city attorney is, although the charter says clearly who the city attorney is in practice, especially in the past. I know you have been trying -- Miss Zelman Has been trying to change that. In the past, there was biase to the mayor, whoever the mayor was. And we need to make sure that the folks are representing the city and that -- and the case of the city attorney, they are representing all of their clients, not just one. If there is a conflict, we need a way of handling that. But we clearly saw in some of the opinions -- like the opinion on how to handle settlement agreements, that was biased probably to cover up something we haven't discovered yet, we don't know. Also, you know I have great concerns of some of the opinions that have come forward from outside attorneys. I won't mention cases, but at least one where I think the outside attorney, because they were biased toward the administration wrote things that opened the city to slander lawsuits. And so far, we are lucky we haven't gotten those lawsuits, but I have concerns about making sure we have attorneys that are not biassed in any way. And what I don't want is for -- to hear things like I heard this morning. I don't want to hear people coming forward saying, well, we believe that -- that it was biased because somebody hired certain lobbyists or sometimes people who aren't registered as lobbyists or should be registered as lobbyists. We need to make sure -- I would like to table this to a larger workshop also because I think there is a bigger discussion. I want to say for the record, I don't know what is going on with the head of Code Enforcement, but from the time I have known him a year and a half, he has been very responsive to investigating the code violations. I don't know what happens after that, most of the constituents I work with have been happy. I want to make sure not a perception in the public that -- I don't know what attorneys you are talking about or hired. I want to make sure not a perception in the public that certain attorneys have been hired or certain situations set up or certain people in the administration have influence that county bias the process. I want to make sure it is very clear not only what the state guidelines are, but what the expectations are. In this case to follow the law and not be biased by everybody else. Thank you.

Alan Clendenin

01:54:29PM Council member Maniscalco.

Guido Maniscalco

01:54:31PM Thank you very much. Before I got elected, I was on the Code Enforcement and nuisance abatement board and gave me an interesting perspective. We didn't have a lot of cases. I was an alternate, and I was able to take part in a lot of the hearings because there was always somebody absent. But what I see in going from the magistrates to this new system is, you had one magistrate appointed by mayor sandy freeman who hasn't been in office for 30 years. And he was so proud. We gave him commendations here. They were so proud for their service to the city. And what I saw in those individuals is, they are connected to their neighborhoods. They are connected to the community. Not saying these attorneys are not, but it was like neighbors with neighbors, citizens with citizens. The gentleman that spoke, Mr. Revis, who is in the audience. He was saying you no longer have citizens coming before other citizens. Not saying that those attorneys, you know, don't know the community, but, you know, in government and in politics, there is a clear lack of compassion. When I served on the board, not as a magistrate, but a Code Enforcement board member, I tried to serve with compassion/ some of the cases were egregious. We had drug activity. Somebody who can't afford or feel intimidated coming here. You want try to be understanding. Not that -- not that they are not understanding, but a different feel. And, yes, you mentioned it as you spoke earlier, that it feels like people are coming into a court room and they are standing before a judge. It's -- the temperature it is different. The environment is different. Yes, the same chambers, but just -- I don't know. I, too, have sad cases over the years. And I am grateful for those magistrates that gave so much of their time and service to the community. You have mentioned that even within your network and in your circles and legal circles, difficult to find people to step up to the plate. Not everybody wants to do volunteer work for free. My father is the first critic. He said you go to this meeting. Do you get paid for any of this? I say I love Tampa. I love the community. That is true today. But going back to the original system, I think it works with those volunteer magistrates. Perhaps we did not advertise it enough. We are talking of the Charter Review Commission coming up. And -- I mean, I have been contacted by many people that want too serve on the board. Why? Because it is such a big thing. Perhaps we need to advertise it further because there are people that are interested, not because they want to run for office, but they want to get involved in some capacity. We see folks who get involved in their neighborhood association. They get involved in t.h.a.n. That is all volunteer work. At the end of the day, they care. These magistrates that are retired -- if you want to call it that -- they really cared. I saw their compassion. Nobody is making you do this. They do it because they want to do it. In that system and you have that environment, I think people felt more comfortable. I feel that being present in front of an attorney can intimidate some folks. You feel like you have an elderly individual on social security that gets a Code Enforcement issue and they say do I have to hire an attorney? I don't know, I am not a good public speaker. Never had this happen to me before. An extra expense and another hurdle between the public and their government. So many things that I am concerned about. Councilman Carlson mentioned tabling this and having a workshop. I would just like to vote this down. I know that miss Pettis-mackle Has worked very hard on this. And I will close by saying there was a proposition at the state level that did not pass. We are not obligated by the state to do this. Not a time of is of the essence issue. Look at other options. We are the closest level of government to the people. That is why I road for City Council municipal. Court offices or magistrates are closest to the people. And nobody wants to see a Code Enforcement officer come up to their property and cite them. Because you panic. What if -- daily fines. What if I can't afford it? What if I can't get the money? It is a very intimidating situation to be in. I understand we need law and order, and we need to maintain -- people need to maintain their properties and businesses and whatnot, but perhaps we should go back to the original weigh with the volunteer magistrates and advertise it better. Because there are a lot of good, SMART people that are not attorneys that would be more than happy to do this. Thanks.

Alan Clendenin

01:59:19PM Council member Miranda.

Charlie Miranda

01:59:20PM Thank you, sir. First of all, when all this happened some time back that there was changeover from volunteers to privatized, whatever you want to call it. I met with the four individuals that were here. And they told me one of the faults that they had was they never had one, two, or three alternates at the time they had the opportunity that is what they told me. Second, they said as soon as you go private, the cost of those individuals coming before the board is going to increase the penalties for them. And they were right, from what I heard, on that. And I am not -- I am not saying on your case or anyone in the Legal Department. That is not what I am talking about. I am talking it of the act itself. So what I think happened here is that those individuals' premise is exactly what you said. The program is set up not to collect money, but to fix the problem. So this neighborhood -- and so that we have to spend hundreds millions to fix a whole neighborhood. And that's what it is all about. That is why they did it. Collect $50 or $100. Pay when you can and make sure you get paid. But now they tell me four or five times amount of money they are paying in. And like the two council members prior to me speaking, something about -- if we are going to go to exactly what you said, and you were right. Code Enforcement is to make sure the property values stay where they are at and don't decay and create more density of miserable houses going on and all kind of activities going on. It makes a break even without breaking bank of people creating the same problem. It is a very difficult question. A very difficult program. Work hard here -- and I don't want -- I agree with more workshop. Because Harbour Island, Palma Ceia, Davis Islands, how many case do they have a year? I don't think they have too many. When you look at the neighborhoods of East Tampa, west company, Sulphur Springs, all those west. And where all the application is because, why? That's where they are at. They can't keep up with the payments of the house and fix the house. Something has to happen in my opinion, and you are absolutely right. And I will say it again. It was meant only to make the house go up to the standard and not define somebody. But fine was to give them the incentive to do that.

Andrea Zelman

02:01:56PM If I may remind you, some of you have done something to regulate pickleball courts. As soon as we can get a way around senate bill 180 and that goes away, and we can do that. Remember, the only enforcement tool that we are going to have is Code Enforcement. And you can't say, well, no, we want you to be hard of the people in South Tampa that are building pickleball courts, but be nicer to the people in Sulphur Springs. We can't do that. That raises all kind of equal protection of the law issues. Remember, any time you want to have code regulate something, our tool to do that is Code Enforcement.

Charlie Miranda

02:02:35PM Well, let me say this. You can solve the pickleball court problem without the pickleball court problem. Just don't let the people in the back build a concrete -- anything larger than something. That solves that problem. Then you can't build a pickleball court without concrete.

Andrea Zelman

02:02:52PM To do something of that and cite them for building something they shouldn't have, and then we enforce it through the Code Enforcement process.

Charlie Miranda

02:03:00PM I understand that.

Andrea Zelman

02:03:03PM Anyway, I am sorry. Let me let Camaria talk.

Alan Clendenin

02:03:08PM Let's let the presentation continue.

Camaria Pettis-Mackle

02:03:14PM Good afternoon, Camaria Pettis-Mackle from the Legal Department. I'm here on file number e 2025-e chapter 9, Code Enforcement. I have some slides explains what the proposed changes are for specifically only about chapter 9 Code Enforcement. And after I get done with my presentation -- City Council received an e-mail asking some specific questions. And I have answers to those questions. If I am able to, I would like to answer some of those questions and the public comment that has been provided.

Alan Clendenin

02:03:50PM I would anticipate that. Thank you.

Camaria Pettis-Mackle

02:03:52PM The first part of the ordinance that is before you is to change code section 9-2, which is regarding definitions. There have been public comment that the city -- that the Legal Department is proposing to eliminate the volunteer special magistrates. As I said during my first presentation, the Legal Department is not proposing to eliminate it, but we are asking to add the provision to allow the Legal Department to add outside counsel. So it is adding outside counsel. Changing the definition of a repeat violator at 9-2. This proposed change aligns with the language in Florida statute. Right now, the current language does not mirror the Florida statute. The proposal is of Florida statutes -- to the city to allow the code of a specific magistrate that a particular property owner has violated the code numerous times. Some this code -- these proposed changes, especially regarding the definition of repeat violator would align this code definition with Florida statute. The other proposed code change is regarding code section 9-2. Special settlement for liens. Right now the current code discusses lien settlement that is not used and not applicable throughout the entire Code Enforcement process. Goes community gardens requirements. Nothing to do with zoning requirements. It has nothing to do when a person violates chapter 5 of our building code. That is not the correct criteria. The current criteria that the Legal Department to settle Code Enforcement liens is a policy that is in executive order. Tje entire City Council received an e-mail on August 28 when I first did a presentation of what the executive order is. You have a copy of the executive order. Outlines in the way the Legal Department provides settlement offers across the board to homestead properties or nonhomestead properties. Those property owners in these specific categories are again the same settlement offer depending on they came in compliance with the code. Same for a everyone a homestead or nonhomestead property. Okay. What I wanted to add to this is that this process right here only comes into play when the special magistrate loses jurisdiction. Our code states that the special magistrate has jurisdiction 90 days after compliance unless the special magistrate contains jurisdiction to not to exceed 180 days, okay. So that is the process. If the special magistrate still has jurisdiction, property owners that come into compliance with the code can request a hearing to have -- to present to the special magistrate, as long as the special magistrate has jurisdiction. Factors that took into consideration why it took me so long to come into compliance. Special magistrate, would you please -- because of my circumstances, please reduce the fine, and the special magistrate listens to those requests, but the Legal Department looks at offers when the special magistrate loses jurisdiction. I want to address the comment that the public doesn't know of the policies or procedures or how to reduce a fine. That is incorrect. I receive e-mails, countless e-mails on a daily basis. I want to reduce my fine. I have e-mails I need to respond to. As long as special magistrate has jurisdiction, they can do a fine reduction. They do not have jurisdiction because the timeline has expired. Of coursem I will tell the person this is the settlement offer for you to settle. So much the public is fully aware of the process of releasing a lien. They know to contact the Legal Department and Code Enforcement or the clerk's office. The proposed changes regardless code section 9.104 and 10.537 suggesting that those provisions should apply to the volunteer special magistrates and not to the Legal Department hires outside council, okay. The next proposed change in the ordinance is 9-110, administrative fines. Regarding demolition of a building or a structure. This proposed language following legislation. Senate bill 528 allows the special manage straight to a fine or penalty of properties that are on the national register of historic places or contributing resource. Some this amendment -- this proposed amendment will allow the special magistrate to increase the penalty. Right now this is not in our code. So we don't have this language in our code that is -- that have already passed in the 2025 legislative session. The last proposed changes in the ordinance of inspection report. The recommendations that I have in the ordinance cleans up the language. Because the state of the order of the special magistrate. Right now the language is -- it does not make sense. So it says that the deadline to impose or deadline to challenge or ask for a rehearing is when a matter -- when the item of the order is uploaded. It should be from the date of the -- that is on the order. That cleans up that language. And it provides more clarity of the code sections. That concludes the submission of the ordinance, and I want to go through the public comment that was e-mailed --

Alan Clendenin

02:11:05PM Pause one second. You have a question of the presentation?

Bill Carlson

02:11:12PM I have one question. In the former administration, there was concerns of the alleged abuse of the fine forgiveness and settlement process. I think -- you kind of hit on this. This mayor or this administration has an executive order. I don't know it is the same one that you just mentioned. Sorry, I don't have it in front of me, but this administration's executive order limits the amount of settlement. You said you created certain categories, but in the last administration. One that was a six-figure amount that was apparently waived 100%. Not possible for anybody to waive a fine 100% now.

Camaria Pettis-Mackle

02:11:54PM That is incorrect, and if you would like me to go into that right now.

Alan Clendenin

02:11:58PM Councilwoman Hurtak has the executive order?

Bill Carlson

02:12:04PM You says it possible to waive 100% now?

Camaria Pettis-Mackle

02:12:07PM If you want me to answer the question, I can. It is a specific provision in the executive order.

Bill Carlson

02:12:13PM Before I got on council, I heard a lot of complaints about that. I want to make sure that process is especially not arbitrary.

Camaria Pettis-Mackle

02:12:23PM Called the "distress structured rehabilitation program," and it is in the executive order. If a property -- and goes to address one of the questions that was sent in the e-mail to City Council. If the property is not in compliance with the code, they can contact the Legal Department or Code Enforcement staff to say I want to take advantage of this program. In this program, if you were not in compliance of the code, again, the goal is compliance. If you pull the required permits, do the work in order to bring your property into compliance and City staff determines you are in compliance with the code, under this program, the -- the department can waive the soft cost liens associated with the Code Enforcement matter because you are in compliance with the code. But it is under this program, Councilman Carlson. It is under this program. So you can. There is a provision if you ask to -- say you say I need help or I need time or I want to enter into this program. This allow as waiver of the Code Enforcement fines from the special magistrate if they come into compliance with the code. This does not apply, Councilman Carlson, if we are talking of hard cost liens. This program is not talking about hard cost liens. Glad you brought it up. One of the comments I was going to address, that the distressed rehabilitation program. If a person asks to be part of this, this is public information. They can pull the required permits, show they are in compliance with the code, and the department is waive the soft cost lien.

Bill Carlson

02:14:09PM I will probably call and ask some additional questions, if you don't mind. But can I just -- one additional question. This was done by executive order. Why was it is not done by ordinance. Or why shouldn't it be done by ordinance?

Camaria Pettis-Mackle

02:14:25PM As Miss Zelman said -- in the e-mailm the first day I presented this, this executive order allows the department and the Legal Department -- the administration and -- you know, all parties utilize the settlement of Code Enforcement liens a quicker way to make application. Mr. Chair, if I can finish what I was saying.

Bill Carlson

02:14:49PM Sorry, I didn't mean --

Camaria Pettis-Mackle

02:14:51PM Allow for the changes to be made to the executive order in a quicker fashion opposed to having to present to City Council at two public hearings ordinance changes for an administrative process. Because it is the Legal Department that settles the Code Enforcement liens. And that's why it is through executive order.

Bill Carlson

02:15:10PM Just to follow-up. Sorry, I didn't realize you were going there, so that's why I started to cut you off. But I wonder if -- if there is a concern in the public ordinance versus executive orders. And I wonder if there is a part that we can codify in an ordinance and put a very narrow band in an executive order so that -- so the public would have trust in it. We can have longer conversation.

Alan Clendenin

02:15:43PM I have a question. I know Maniscalco you are next, but can I ask a quick question. Public on the distressed rehabilitation program. They have to expressly request to be included in that. I understand. Let's say I am a person not learned and not totally into city policies. Are we -- are we compelled to disclose this program to people who are in -- being fined?

Camaria Pettis-Mackle

02:16:14PM Are we compelled to?

Alan Clendenin

02:16:16PM Do they have to go digging through this to filed it themselves.

Camaria Pettis-Mackle

02:16:20PM Public record. Public information.

Alan Clendenin

02:16:22PM Doesn't mean they are broadcast into their living rooms. Up wouldn't know it is there.

Camaria Pettis-Mackle

02:16:26PM The other beautiful piece is that Code Enforcement staff know about this program. They are -- they are a department who has asked for this program to be in place and continue to be in place. So Code Enforcement staff is aware of it. And they are the first point of contact for the community and for the public. So if that is a conversation between Code Enforcement staff who are issuing the notices of violation to the property owner. In those instances, those conversations can take place.

Alan Clendenin

02:16:56PM Will that be a equitable treatment if one Code Enforcement officer is disclosing it to one homeowner, and one Code Enforcement officer is not disclosing it to the other?

Camaria Pettis-Mackle

02:17:07PM I can't speak on that, Mr. Chair.

Alan Clendenin

02:17:09PM Maybe this is a proposed amendment to this executive order that at first contact, that the city would brief -- avail them of that opportunity.

Camaria Pettis-Mackle

02:17:19PM I understand that. That is a great suggestion. An educational piece to the public regarding this program. I see no issue with that.

Alan Clendenin

02:17:29PM Council member Maniscalco.

Guido Maniscalco

02:17:30PM Quick question. Going to the paid attorneys, what are they getting paid an hour, for example, for -- to run one of these hearings?

Camaria Pettis-Mackle

02:17:40PM So the rate is $225 per hour. And I believe that mirrors what the -- that mirrors what Mr. -- what was paid for the other attorney who provided legal advice to the volunteer special magistrates.

Guido Maniscalco

02:17:57PM How long was the hearing that you sat through yesterday? Hour and a half.

Lynn Hurtak

02:18:04PM Just for one case.

Guido Maniscalco

02:18:05PM How long was the whole hearing.

Lynn Hurtak

02:18:08PM I wasn't able to stay.

Camaria Pettis-Mackle

02:18:11PM If I can finish my thought. Miss Zelman informed me that the $225 an hour is the same rate that the city pays for the special magistrates or the hearing officers for the red-light camera.

Guido Maniscalco

02:18:24PM How long was yesterday's hearing, do you know? A six-hour total hearing? I mean --

02:18:30PM Which one? The afternoon session.

Camaria Pettis-Mackle

02:18:35PM Afternoon session, got done at 4:00.

Guido Maniscalco

02:18:39PM Beginning at noon.

Camaria Pettis-Mackle

02:18:42PM Morning session starts at 9 a.m.

Guido Maniscalco

02:18:46PM Three times $225.

Alan Clendenin

02:18:48PM Billable hours for the prep time?

Camaria Pettis-Mackle

02:18:52PM Sorry? Alan Clendenin: billable hours for the prep time?

Carmaria Pettis-Mackle

02:18:57PM Councilman, I believe that is included. They are doing a thorough analysis of everything before them so they are educated about what they are going to hear. So, again -- and I have some additional -- additional responses of the volunteer -- about the law firm, if I --

Alan Clendenin

02:19:13PM We are still inquiring. Council member Maniscalco, are you done?

Guido Maniscalco

02:19:18PM Why not keep it. We have these rules and everything that you went over but stick with the volunteer magistrates?

Camaria Pettis-Mackle

02:19:28PM Why not? I think Miss Zelman Explained the concerns of having the volunteer special magistrates. I have got to tell you, because I have been with Code Enforcement for some time now, there were comments about -- I think you had mentioned that -- I am trying to go from my notes -- that people are intimidated. The last -- there is no -- that is not at all the -- well, I guess I am giving you from the perspective from the city. But the special magistrate each time -- and I hope you get an opportunity to see the law firm -- the attorney at a Code Enforcement hearing right now is that they make sure that the property owner has the opportunity to speak to him, to tell them whatever -- whatever they want to say. They are given that option. There is not a situation where the special magistrate says to a property owner, I don't want to hear from you. Or you can't talk to me. That is -- that is the opposite. And I hope that what you have heard doesn't give you the impression that this special magistrate, the law firm, doesn't give people the ability to speak or tell -- say whatever they want to say. The concern is if that was the case, we could be violating that property owner's due process if they are not given the opportunity to speak. So, again, I hope more people -- even if you want to come to Code Enforcement hearings to actually watch. You come to learn and understand the process that takes place. That the special magistrate give people, the property owners to speak, and say whatever they need to say. But going back to my original point is that, City staff appreciates that their responsibilities are even heightened. Not all the time that the special magistrate agrees with what the city is doing or what they are proposing. The Code Enforcement staff -- about the fines, they are only making a recommendation to the special magistrate. The ultimate person who makes the decision of what the daily fines should be is the special magistrate. Not Code Enforcement staff. That has been the same process the entire time. Even with the volunteers. So I don't want this City Council to think that because a lawyer there in place that the city is, you know, changing everything. They have always made a recommendation to the special magistrate. Again, the key word -- and it was already said by someone, it is just a recommendation of what the daily fine would be. Up to the special magistrate to follow Florida statute on how to determine how what the daily fine will be. Not just a flip of the coin to find out what is the fine. Takes into consideration what the city is asking.

Guido Maniscalco

02:22:33PM Thank you.

Alan Clendenin

02:22:34PM Council member Viera.

Luis Viera

02:22:35PM Just briefly on a couple of things. People talking of being intimidated because there is a lawyer. Not necessarily because it is a lawyer, but the whole process, lawyer, pharmacist, whatever is up there, it will be intimidating to people. I respect that. With regards to the rate, I would opine on that. That would be are very reasonable rate. I do insurance defense. I am an a-minus and an a-plus lawyer. And I know a bit about billable rates. Insurance for auto, for example, rates can be from $165 to $240 within that. And that is considered low in the legal field for high volume work and all that. And government practice rates are typically lower unless you are talking of something very specialized. Insurance defense and medical malpractice. Insurance work is obviously much higher. For what people like me do, it is lower. There you go. So I think that is good in that regard. Question for you. Since we are hiring attorneys and their capacity as attorneys. This -- -- you know what, I -- I was going to ask about malpractice issues that will waste time. Disregard. Thank you.

Camaria Pettis-Mackle

02:23:54PM I don't know anything about malpractice.

Alan Clendenin

02:24:00PM We will be here past dinner. Councilwoman Hurtak wanted to ask a question.

Lynn Hurtak

02:24:05PM To council member Maniscalco's point, made me think of something. We can still use a volunteer magistrate.

Camaria Pettis-Mackle

02:24:18PM I am not proposing to eliminate it. We are never proposing --

Lynn Hurtak

02:24:23PM Why don't we go back and instead use the paid lawyer as our back-ups if people do not show up. For me that is the perfect.

Guido Maniscalco

02:24:32PM There you go. Not to interrupt, but when I was on the Code Enforcement, I was an alternate and always somebody missing. I would jump at any opportunity -- it was free. And I am not an attorney. But I took part in every hearing because always somebody missing. That is a great -- perfect. Because the volunteer magistrates that I met -- and I gave them commendations when they were here and some I have known even longer --

Alan Clendenin

02:24:58PM Can we wait until she finished and then pontificate.

Guido Maniscalco

02:25:04PM They were so passionate about it and then loved doing it.

Alan Clendenin

02:25:08PM Finish.

Camaria Pettis-Mackle

02:25:10PM Section by section to address the e-mail sent to City Council. The first section that was asked about is the difference between -- the difference between settlement negotiations, fines versus liens. All right. Hard cost liens as it is stated in the executive order. And those are nonnegotiable. The Legal Department will not negotiate or reduce hard cost liens. And I will explain the to City Council that hard cost liens are liens that result in the city taking action to bring a property into compliance. That did a lien on that property owner person's property. We don't want to settle those liens because the city will be at a loss. Those will be actual expenses. What has to be paid in order for the liens to be released are the centered liens associated with the Code Enforcement liens, those are soft cost liens. As you were already e-mailed in the past previously, in August, the soft cost liens are the breakdown in the executive order for the nonhomestead and homestead properties. Okay. Legal Department is only providing negotiated reduced costs for the liens for soft cost liens for Code Enforcement. Answer to number one. Number two, he asked of policy sections, distressed versus compliance guidelines. The compliance guidelines in the executive order deals only with properties that are in compliance with the code. As I explained earlier, the distressed structure program are for those property owners who are not in compliance with the code. So those are two different scenarios. Policy -- policy versus an ordinance. He asked the difference between 19.7 and 19.112. Chapter 19 -- I am only here of chapter 9. Chapter 19 which is property maintenance allows someone to challenge the billing of a hard cast lien. Again that is challenging the billing of a hard cost lien. That code section -- it is in the code. It's -- since I have been representing Code Enforcement, it has never been used. No one challenged the billing of the hard cost lien, and the billing says that hard cost lien cannot be settled or negotiated. Those liens are what the liens are, because they are expenses that the city spends and the city is being asked to be reimbursed. Two different things. You can challenge the billing but you can not negotiate that hard cost lien. You can say a property owner -- I don't want come up with a scenario, but, hey, I didn't get a copy of that. I didn't know you guys were doing that. Challenging the billing of the hard cost lien. Not asking for a settlement or give me a lower amount for their hard cost lien not what that process is for. Lastly, I asked for ordinance revisions to demolition of historic structures. Specifically asked about, does this apply to buildings that the city demolishes? Again, that is in a different chapter or than chapter 9 what I'm here about and what this ordinance is about. Chapter 19 addresses and allow as process for -- again, as I just said previously, allow as process for an owner to challenge the billing of a cost associated with abatement. Nothing to do with chapter 9 and the ordinance I am presenting in front of City Council. I hope that addresses his questions. But there were some comments that happened earlier this morning that I want to go ahead and take care of. I already addressed the first one. That Code Enforcement staff has always given a recommendation to the special magistrates of what the daily fine should be. That is nothing new. There was a comment that when -- when there is a violation of the building code, and you have a code violation that the daily fines would stop if you apply -- I think there was a statement about a variance. There is a process in the code for that -- for that. Sense -- just because you have you a building that is in the permitting process, your Code Enforcement fine does not stop. It is until you come into compliance with the code is when your daily fine would stop. I don't want that misconception out there if I am pulling a permit than my code fine stops. That is not the case at all and has never been the case. I think that -- I think -- I think that so far are the responses that I wanted to have for the public comment that hi already heard. But happy to answer any more questions. This ordinance regarding chapter 9. Updates on language -- to address language for the 2025 legislative session that is not in the code that gives additional authority to the special magistrate for fines for demolition. Allows for definitions to be revised to reflect the Florida statute for repeat violators. And adds the provision to allow the Legal Department to hire outside council and the gist of this. Councilwoman Young, do you have any questions? Or are you good?

Naya Young

02:31:19PM I don't think so.

Alan Clendenin

02:31:20PM Any other questions?

Guido Maniscalco

02:31:23PM I like councilwoman Hurtak's suggestion that why don't we stay with the volunteer magistrate. We give them commendations and sent them into retirement, if they wanted to come back, we have that option. And as the alternate, if we can't get somebody, we have those attorneys on retainer, on standby to come in. Or is the response is what if they are not available that day and we can't get an attorney.

Andrea Zelman

02:31:52PM If I may, Andrea Zelman. As Camaria said, we are not trying to destroy the volunteer program. We just want the other tool in our tool belt to be able to hire an attorney like we did in situation where frankly we had gotten to an emergency, in any opinion, 18-month legally deficient orders. I hear what council is saying. We can try to bring volunteers into the rotation. What I would suggest that we work with the attorney who has now been handling the cases, if he is willing to do this. And we would pay him for this, maybe start training some of those volunteer magistrates so we don't run into the problem we were having with legally deficient order. That won't happen overnight and we would like to continue the path about on, because we are finally -- we are not backlogged at all. Things are moving as they should be. And we want to be able to keep doing that. But I hear what Councilwoman Hurtak is saying. We can try to beef up the volunteer program, either as a back-up, as an alternate. Maybe particular types of cases with one. Than with the other we can look into that and work with that. But please don't take away the ability to have the attorney and not asking you to take the ability to use volunteers either. We can try to improve both, but in the meantime, passing this ordinance, allows you to do exactly what you said.

Guido Maniscalco

02:33:39PM We continue this until you figure -- speaking to the attorneys. Do you have something? Because I would like that the volunteer magistrates are prioritized first and a paid attorney as a back-up.

Andrea Zelman

02:33:51PM I will ask you to not do that. This has been continued through August. These things tends to keep getting kicked down and kicked down. In the meantime, Camaria mentioned a lot in these ordinance. State statutory changes she incorporated. Inappropriate -- not inappropriate, but impossible to understand language to understand she has now clarified. Again, the language you are asking you to approve with regard to the attorney would allow us to do what I just described. Figure out a way to bring back volunteer magistrates in some shape or form, get them trained by the attorney, but keep the attorney in the meantime because we are going now. And we have got to keep Code Enforcement going to have a meaningful process. So that -- I will ask you not to continue it yet again.

Alan Clendenin

02:34:41PM Council member Viera and then Councilwoman Hurtak.

Luis Viera

02:34:45PM Very briefly. Move forward and have a motion to have legal report to us on -- because we are being told -- and obviously I trust Miss Zelman. She is a wonderful person of integrity -- that there would be a balance between volunteers and attorneys, and we can see what that balance is and what it ultimately cost us after six or nine months. That is a reasonable alternative that we can do.

Alan Clendenin

02:35:07PM Councilwoman Hurtak.

Lynn Hurtak

02:35:09PM My suggestion is going to be if we approve this on first reading, between first and second reading, fix section three to prioritize. And I think -- and I know that Miss Zelman does not agree, but I think what it sounds like from council or at least the two of us that I know, that we are with going to ask you to prioritize the volunteers and then use the paid as back-up. I don't have any back-up with training. But I do believe that -- I mean, that will be my request. I mean, I would like to be able to move this forward to some degree, but changes between first and second reading would be able and allow you to keep it moving and may go the changes that this council is asking for.

Alan Clendenin

02:35:56PM Council member Young.

Naya Young

02:35:59PM So who -- who has -- who would have the ability to make the appointments, to --

Guido Maniscalco

02:36:13PM They are appointed by the mayor and then we approve it.

Camaria Pettis-Mackle

02:36:16PM I will tell you the language. Camaria Pettis-Mackle from the Legal Department. I will tell you the language that is right now in the code. It is each Code Enforcement special magistrate is to be appointed by the mayor and approved by City Council for a term of three years. That is currently in the code. Code section 9-104.

Alan Clendenin

02:36:48PM Any follow-up? Council member Maniscalco.

Guido Maniscalco

02:36:59PM If we go ahead and move this forward on first reading today. Can you come back on second reading with what we discussed, reaching out to the attorneys and taking into consideration the prioritization or structure of bringing back the volunteer magistrates? Would it give you enough time and would that not further --

Alan Clendenin

02:37:26PM We still have public comment on this.

Camaria Pettis-Mackle

02:37:28PM We will work on this.

Martin Shelby

02:37:29PM Question, if I can, may I inquire?

Alan Clendenin

02:37:32PM Mr. Shelby.

Martin Shelby

02:37:34PM The magistrates that are currently serving, has this come before City Council?

Camaria Pettis-Mackle

02:37:39PM As Miss Zelman stated before she spoke, yes.

Guido Maniscalco

02:37:45PM I remember.

Alan Clendenin

02:37:45PM Public comment. You have something else, council member Young.

Naya Young

02:37:49PM No, I am good.

Alan Clendenin

02:37:51PM Okay, if you were hear to speak to this item.

02:38:00PM Yes. I was sworn in earlier this morning. I would like to address a couple of issues that Miss Mackle brought up and the other attorney -- sorry, I don't recall your name, but did you very good. Backlog of 18 months. One of the reason there was a backlog because I went out -- I had to take personal time because of health issues.

02:38:22PM What is your name.

02:38:27PM We are debating whether you have the right to speak.

Martin Shelby

02:38:32PM My understanding for those who wanted to stay and hear the presentation and to be able to speak. Again, I don't set that forth for first reading and maybe I should. But the question is, if you want them to speak twice on the same subject, my suggestion today would be to waive the rules.

Alan Clendenin

02:38:48PM A motion to waive from council member Maniscalco. Seconded from Councilwoman Hurtak. Opposed? Start again. I would like to bring up a couple of issues during the presentation. The 18-month backlog. Yes, there was a backlog. Miss Anderson, who is no longer with the city, would contact me prior to me having to go out last December and would request that I fill in for any magistrate, which I did all the time. Sometimes, I was -- I was the special magistrate four or five times a month. And I enjoyed every minute of it. I never said no when Miss Anderson would call for me to fill in. I had requested -- I had told Miss Mackle. Miss Pettis-mackle, that we needed more magistrates. I think I told it to a council member or two that we need more magistrates. We do this for the love of the city. Miss Pettis-mackle said it is not eliminating -- this new ordinance that is being present is not eliminating the volunteer magistrates, but yet we were eliminated, and we are still are eliminated. Magistrates that were there, both paul, Alex, I and nora are willing and waiting to come back because of what we did and what we love for the city. So we are not -- the -- the issue of having the attorney there, yes. There is always going to be some conflict. There is always going to be a legal issue that not everybody understanding. But that is what they are there for as back-up. The -- it is just -- it is disheartening to hear some of the things that were said and to listen to the comments. We care. The empathy, as Mr. Maniscalco said, we always -- we would get up. Yes, I saw presentation for the attorney. First thing he said, I have been an attorney for the bar for 30 years. That alone make me want to sit back and not say a word. We would make it light -- we would kid around. The fees that was stated -- the code officer always gave a fee? No. the code officer would never recommend a fee unless it was a high fee for an egregious situation. That is when an officer would recommend a fee. It was always up to the magistrate's discretion as to what fee. Sometimes $1. I have given as low as one penny in situations. But this fee -- the fee basis now. Low-income homes, seniors. That is going to directly affect all of them. Davis island, Beach Park. They will never have an issue with this. Everybody else will. Thank you.

02:42:05PM It is public comment. Mr. Michelini. I think there are a couple of different issues here. One of them is, you have to have a permit to stop your fines. I have a client who is stuck in -- lack of a better word, permit hell that is now being fined $3,000 a month for a property that was showcased as being what the mayor wanted to see for adu and doing the work. This property owner went to the city and asked them what was going on, and tried to help me understand. They bought the property with work that was already previously done. And now we are being fined, and we are stuck in this permitting cycle. We responded in a timely manner, and we can't get out. So there are a couple of things that should be looked at that if you are in the process of solving issues. We had to file for a design exception. We had to file for a special use. Not continue the fines while you are on in that process. Showing due diligence and in the process, why are you fining me when the city is part of the process of resolution. You get into this system where you can't get out. I think one of the other issues is, I think it allows the city attorney to appoint a magistrate that -- that needs to be clarified. You should -- on the permitting side, I mean, you are told -- you were told by construction services center it is a violation there or if it is as code violation, you have two fines that are tracking simultaneously for the same property and you have two different hearings. You don't have a hearing on the same day unless you can ask for it. You shouldn't a double fine occurring on the same property. You shouldn't -- if you feel for a process to resolve the problem, it should stop. You shouldn't continue to be fined when you submitted plans. If you don't have a permit, you don't have a per mint. That is not always the fault of the property owner. When they talk about fines, there is a -- there is a chart there. You never heard a city employee say anything other than $250 a day. And where did they get that from? That is coming from the City staff. And used to be based on as Mr. Revis said egregious fault and not some incidental issue. You start at $250 a day, and it goes up from there. Resolution process is online. You have to pay a fee to get online to figure out what to do in terms of reducing a fine. I guess one of the last things is, when you are -- when you are in a process, you shouldn't be penalized continually daily for being in that process when you have no control over of the processing times.

02:45:05PM I have a question about that. Because seems very reasonable -- I get it is a quagmire, because second-guessing somebody is abusing the system and is work actually being accomplished and not a get out of jail free card to file a permit and not fines assessed. But it seems reasonable if someone is diligent and trying to go through the processes to get into compliance, that they shouldn't be -- the fines shouldn't be continuously stacked up against him because it sounds like it is almost like a -- you know, a wall that will be difficult to climb over eventually -- we have permitting issues in the City of Tampa. That is a fact. You have permits around getting out of permitting difficult procedure for one reason or another. Have you explored any ideas of how to abate fines if somebody is showing progress of coming into compliance? I mean, there could be a category where these fines stack up, but then they automatically go away from the time they started the process of coming into compliance? That is not subject to the whim and will of a special magistrate or staff.

Camaria Pettis-Mackle

02:46:27PM Camaria Pettis-Mackle from the Legal Department. That has not been looked into. Not outlined in the Florida statute. No one has looked into that. But, again, Code Enforcement, that process is outlined. It mirrors the language in the provision of the Florida statute. I did want to clarify a couple of things. You can't have fines and fines -- you can only have fines related to chapter 5 violations, chapter 19 violations, chapter 27 violations, and chapter 22 violations. Those are the type of fines. You can't have two chapter 5 fines running on the same property for the same issue. That is incorrect. You can -- and it does happen -- where a property owner will have daily fines with work done without a permit and also zoning violations. Because that property owner is violating your zoning code and zoning laws. That is the process. That is allowed. Because the property owner have violated the laws that you want us -- that you want the city to enforce for chapter 5 -- for chapter 5 building code and chapter 27 zoning regulation. But I want to just reiterate is that I, along with Michael schmidt, other attorneys, we begged. Text messaged our own personal friends to try to be volunteer special magistrates. There were no bites at it. No bites. We sounded the alarms. The Legal Department, the clerk's office has sounded the alarms --

Alan Clendenin

02:48:12PM Before you go down there. One clarification on the one issue that I asked about.

Camaria Pettis-Mackle

02:48:19PM Go ahead.

Alan Clendenin

02:48:20PM Again, I am a homeowner and for some reason, maybe I did inherit a Code Enforcement violations and Code Enforcement comes out and discovered these. I am now responsible for putting this property into compliance. I am accruing daily fines for monthly fines, however it is done. But now that I am aware of it, I have gone to city to try to fix this issue, but going through the city in this process sometimes is cumbersome and takes months. Seems odd we don't have a process to stop or abate the fines at that point, hold them in abeyance while I am in the process of fixing the problem I may not even being aware of. If I am doing my part, couldn't we accomplish that through our council has to get through the ordinance or the mayor's executive order. Do we have to create an ordinance --

Camaria Pettis-Mackle

02:49:32PM I can block that, Mr. Chair, and reason is that updated research at second reading. Alan Clendenin: having going through hurricane damage, I know how hard it is to get permits and stuff.

02:49:43PM I totally -- yes.

Alan Clendenin

02:49:45PM I have a house that is x number of decades old and know things have happened, and it is difficult. And I didn't have any. I didn't have noncompliance issues, but I can see -- takes so long to get permits and would be frustrating to have the fines pile up even though I am trying my hardest to get it done.

Camaria Pettis-Mackle

02:50:13PM I understand and the beauty of our code and allowing for a fine reduction hearing process and the beauty of the executive order allowing the Legal Department to settle Code Enforcement liens. Soft cost liens.

Alan Clendenin

02:50:27PM Only thing I am pessimistic about it because discretionary. Depends on the special magistrate or the staff that can waive that. One person may waive it and one person already not.

Camaria Pettis-Mackle

02:50:40PM Actually, not discretionary. How it is in the executive amendment. That is not discretionary.

Alan Clendenin

02:50:47PM Whether they waive it or not. A special magistrate can waive the fees. They can reduce the fees and reduce the fines, excuse me.

Camaria Pettis-Mackle

02:50:55PM Right.

Alan Clendenin

02:50:56PM But they may not reduce the fines.

Camaria Pettis-Mackle

02:50:59PM That is what the special magistrate.

Alan Clendenin

02:51:02PM I don't like that because if somebody is doing due diligence,between first and second, if you explore the opportunities to figure out a way to resolve that concern. I think that would make me happy -- make me even more amicable to this. Council member Viera.

Camaria Pettis-Mackle

02:51:18PM I will research that, Mr. Chair, and contact you before second reading with my research.

Alan Clendenin

02:51:24PM Just so you know, I am very much appreciative of your responsiveness. We were talking into the phone late into the evening last night.

Camaria Pettis-Mackle

02:51:31PM Late last night.

Alan Clendenin

02:51:32PM Council member Viera.

Luis Viera

02:51:34PM I would suggest -- because we are turning this into a workshop on steroids. Read this ordinance with the minor changes between first and second, and if people want to talk about it further, we can workshop because human issues and human wealth there and should be a lot of empathy.

Alan Clendenin

02:51:55PM What is the pleasure of council?

Lynn Hurtak

02:51:59PM I mean, I am happy to read the ordinance with the changes that we want between first and second reading. I still think a workshop is a good idea, but I think a workshop -- I think we would need to talk about it during maybe old business next session. And just kind of come up with an idea what we would want that to look like.

Alan Clendenin

02:52:21PM I agree.

Lynn Hurtak

02:52:23PM Maybe schedule for summer. It would need some time to really flesh it out. Because this is issue that -- obviously, each one you have had something to say about this.

Alan Clendenin

02:52:34PM Go for it.

Lynn Hurtak

02:52:35PM So I -- file number e 2025-8 chapter 9, ordinance for first reading consideration. Ordinance -- substitute ordinance. Ordinance of the City of Tampa making comprehensive revisions to code of ordinances, chapter 9, repealing all ordinance and parts of ordinances and conflict therewith, providing for severability, and providing an effective date, including modifying section 3 to specify that we want to use volunteer magistrates as priority and paid lawyers as back-up and, chair --

Alan Clendenin

02:53:23PM Between first and second reading, staff will report on the opportunities to abate fines while the homeowner or the property owner is trying to come into compliance.

Guido Maniscalco

02:53:33PM I will second that.

Alan Clendenin

02:53:36PM A motion from Councilwoman Hurtak. We have a second from council member Viera. He beat you too it, council member Maniscalco. All in favor, say aye. Opposed. Ayes have it. Thank you. Councilman Carlson.

Bill Carlson

02:53:50PM Can I say one thing?

Alan Clendenin

02:53:55PM Before you -- before the second reading. Go ahead and do the second reading.

Clerk

02:54:01PM December 4, 2025, City Council, 315 east Kennedy boulevards, Tampa, Florida 33062.

Bill Carlson

02:54:09PM Do we need to vote -- announce the vote? I voted no.

Clerk

02:54:13PM Motion care with carson voting no.

Bill Carlson

02:54:17PM I want to say before miss Pettis-mackle, no reflection of her good work, but I think we should have the workshop before. Thank you.

Alan Clendenin

02:54:26PM Thank you. Appreciate it. 56. Hello.

Heather Bonds

02:54:41PM Hello, good afternoon, Heather Bonds, historic preservation specialist. Powerpoint to come up, please.

Alan Clendenin

02:54:49PM Powerpoint. CCTV. Can we get it on council's displays too? Here we go, thank you.

Heather Bonds

02:54:57PM Today I have the privilege to present a recommendation from the Barrio Latino Commission of a tax ad valorem exemption. It is a positive incentive program with the city in addition to the county. Offered to both homeowners and commercial building owners in local historic district to offset the cost of rehabilitating the historic properties. Application before you today is a commercial building located at 2234 east 7th avenue in the Ybor City historic district. Currently owned by ybor nuccio lcc. The two-story brick buildings were completed separately in 1910 and 1926 and both contribute to Ybor City's local and national historic land mark districts. Originally built for the keyhoe furniture company and the family for design interiors. Structure has undergone several facelifts or changes throughout its history. Original facades are seen here from a circa 1925 burgett brothers photo. Here are the befores and afters. Here is the western structure before and after where you can see the full storefront reconstruction as the original storefront had been removed and filled. And the eastern structure also introduced historically appropriate windows, restored the awning, and rehabilitated the storefront. Here, some interiors before and after that showed the gutted interior transformed with wood flooring and beadboard ceilings. The buildings are connected and open to each other on the interior. This is that connection. This is the second floor, which remains unoccupied and ready for office use now. The second floor utilizes materials that are historic with wood floors, beadboard ceilings, and wood support post. With such care to detail and bringing back to life another structure in Ybor City's historic 7th avenue, the Barrio Latino Commission approved with the secretary of interior standards of rehabilitation and voted to favorably recommend this tax exemption to it the City Council. Staff respectfully requests your approval of this historic property ad valorem tax exemption from 3724 east 7th avenue.

Alan Clendenin

02:57:59PM Council member Maniscalco.

Guido Maniscalco

02:58:00PM Compliments whoever did the restoration work. Because my friend and I joke of the '70s and '80s. So much from cars to clothing to what happened. You saw the picture from 1973, completely changed the facade, where the brick was hidden and something metal. Something like that. But what a beautiful restoration. And what a thing that they kept the ghost sign on the side where you see the furniture. Some may be not original for when the building was built, but still a glimpse into the past of Ybor City. Some, yeah, no, this is a great.

Charlie Miranda

02:58:43PM Remember that something can only be original one time.

Alan Clendenin

02:58:47PM Somebody thought that building over there was beautiful at some point. Okay, council member Maniscalco, would you like to move this one?

Guido Maniscalco

02:58:57PM Public comment.

Alan Clendenin

02:58:59PM We have public comment. Anyone wishing to speak? Move to close from council member Maniscalco and seconded from council member Miranda. All in favor, say aye.

Guido Maniscalco

02:59:07PM Ordinance presented for first reading. Approving a historic preservation property tax exemption of rehab station of ybor nuccio lcc in the historic district based on finding a notice to the property appraiser and providing for severability and repeal of all ordinances.

Charlie Miranda

02:59:34PM Second.

Alan Clendenin

02:59:35PM All in favor, say aye. Opposed. The ayes have it with a cough.

Clerk

02:59:42PM Motion carried with Viera absent at vote. Second reading December 4, 2025 At 10 a.m. City Council Chambers 315 e. Kennedy, Tampa, Florida, 33602.

Alan Clendenin

02:59:55PM Council member Miranda.

Charlie Miranda

02:59:57PM If we have number 64 because some others may be lengthy, and this is a short two-minute thing. Alan Clendenin: without objection, we will hear item 64 first.

03:00:08PM I apologize.

Lynn Hurtak

03:00:10PM I want to quickly move 58, 59, 60, and 61.

Guido Maniscalco

03:00:16PM Thank you.

Alan Clendenin

03:00:17PM 58, 59, 60 and 61, and we will hear item 64. Are you going to hear item 64?

Brad Suder

03:00:38PM Good afternoon, Brad Suder, Parks and Recreation.

Charlie Miranda

03:00:42PM The reason I asked. Unfortunately, we have some changeover in the departments recently. I asked for to you come here, so I can say to get it on tv. That's all. It is just that I appreciate they are calling and I want to make sure that we are doing something.

Brad Suder

03:01:01PM Anything specific?

Charlie Miranda

03:01:05PM Minor things we talked about where the sun hits all the time with the dog park. Kids can close it and could be afraid that a dog will run out and who know what is will happen. In the back side, it looks like an alleyway going all the way to the other tide. And from one side to the other and a three-foot drop from each side and nothing to hold them back from falling in.

Brad Suder

03:01:38PM I will take a close look at that last item. I understand that the lock has been corrected, and we will look into that for you.

Charlie Miranda

03:01:44PM I appreciate very much. Sorry to put you through all this. Getting it so we know what we do. I don't want to do what you do --

Alan Clendenin

03:01:53PM If I have to sit through this, so do you. How is that.

03:01:56PM That concludes item 62. So item number -- sorry, 64. Viera is not here. That is what I known in the say. Let's just -- council member Viera, if you can hear my voice, come in.

Martin Shelby

03:02:24PM Just a reminder, items that were still pulled from the agenda, 20, 23 and 26.

Lynn Hurtak

03:02:32PM We can dive into those.

Guido Maniscalco

03:02:36PM Let's do it.

Lynn Hurtak

03:02:41PM Thank you so much, chair. Wanted to pull these just to kind of talk about -- my thing is when you are five pages of financial resolutions that I think we really need to discuss them. So I am hoping to get some clarification, and I want to thank Mr. Perry and his office for sending out the memo last nights to make sure that the public knows we are not using clt money and moving that around. Because, wow, did we get comments about that.

Michael Perry

03:03:19PM Thank you. I truly apologize for its mess-up on number 19. It just disappeared. And it -- it magically reappeared on the agenda and to sort of add salt to the wound, we actually got e-mails last night that it was returned to the submitter. You can imagine we were rushing to prepare a new one, and we made some mistakes. With that, I am going to use the wolf. Can you all see that up there? So there are five items on the financial resolution. Probably the biggest one is its General Fund adjustments. I will go through each one of them. We will close the american rescue plan act. Talking of FEMA reimbursement and golf course and streetcar operations, and american rescue plan personnel. And I will talk about personnel here later. Next slide. So personnel adjustment 3.5. One slide, $300,000 for the Fire Department. How we are funding it. Funding it recognizing increased revenue. If you look at the financial resolution, you are recognizing the patient program that the statements contributes for both the fire and the -- the fire and the police f&p pension. We are also recognizing additional revenue from the Convention Center. They fund their own. And also the fire extra duty. What I want to make sure that we are not use any fund balance in order to fund this financial resolution.

Alan Clendenin

03:05:22PM 23 and 26.

Bill Carlson

03:05:29PM Can I --

Alan Clendenin

03:05:32PM Councilman Carlson.

Bill Carlson

03:05:34PM Just for the public, can you tell us -- can you tell us what in the last slide, what -- what the personnel costs are going forward? Like what is it actually going to be used for so the public can understand?

Michael Perry

03:05:48PM Again, it depends -- depends on the department. And we don't delineate that within the financial resolutions. So I don't have that information here. But I will tell you when somebody retires, City Council is on that because Miss Mary Brian retired, and she required that. We had increases in health care. It was really a bad year for the city's health costs. And could be increased salary and various our things. If you want me too, I can give you more delineation.

Bill Carlson

03:06:26PM Just so the public has a general idea. Some of these are self-explanatory; others may not be. A short explanation so the public would know.

Michael Perry

03:06:37PM Personnel are our salaries an benefits of 03:06:43pm income taxes that pays our employees. Operating expenses. Things like contractual services, supplies, medical, t&i, motor pool, and insurance, which is in the operating. Is that what your looking at, sir?

Lynn Hurtak

03:07:04PM Miss Kopesky gave each of us an e-mail.

Bill Carlson

03:07:08PM Not for me. Because not everybody in the public reads everything. And I am not sure that -- her note is helpful, but I am not sure it was posted. I wanted the public to understand.

Lynn Hurtak

03:07:19PM Absolutely. I actually want her to come and talk about that. So that is a good segue. I appreciate that. >Michael perryl thank you, sir. Mr. Clendenin, yesterday during the briefing, you asked something about why did this personnel cost go up. Terminal leave, which is vacation and sick leave upon an employee's departure from the city, health care costs. You have to understand when I do the personal budget, their snapshot is taken in may and gaped on the information that we know in may and June; however, things change. I am going to use a little bit of an example of me. For the longest time, I was on my wife's health care. I wasn't paying in any health care. She left that company, and I went -- I had to come -- coming back on the city. Well, again, it is not that much, but it costs the city -- let's say that additional $10,000. Pension. By entered the drop in February, city is no longer paying my 03:08:30pm retirement. When I depart, my replacement will be pick become up that stuff this. And I plan on being here for another three years, but you never know. Again, if you have projected salary increases, get a midyear. Position increases. We go through that you formal process with the administration, with the chief of staff approving all position increases, and we have vacant positions. We budget them at the minimum. Just the practice we have. We bring them above the minimum, and that is an impact on the salary. So any questions for increases on personnel budget?

Alan Clendenin

03:09:16PM Councilman Carlson.

Bill Carlson

03:09:17PM This is not about you, but the sensitivity in the public. You know, we have an army of community leaders now that are digging through our budget and looking at everything. And something like that seems innocuous says projected salary increases. As you know, in the past, the administration has come back to us afterwards, and said you approved, let's say for all I know, 500 new employees coming on board. That is not probably in this case, but that -- that the administration would come back. Y'all approved it. Another example was the $11 million that was supposed to go for -- that Councilman Viera allocated for the fire station. And then we said where did it go. And nobody knew. I don't know if it is true, but I heard it went to fair oaks. But never -- to be my knowledge, there was never a side-by-side compassion taking the $11 million out of the fire station and put it in fair oaks or anything like that. You want to make sure that nothing we approved implies major policy change. Other thing while I have the floor, we have a rule to chief of staff administrator. We have a rule of all this anything above $5 million has to automatically go into staff reports. This is $31 million split up in several different things. We also have another rule that anything above $20 million probably says capital problems, but everything above $20 million has to read twice to have discussion about it. I wish that the administration would have just automatically put this in staff reports instead of us having to pull it. Again, that is nothing about you. I think just for transparently issue. I know you have a $3 million requirement on contractual services and the value of this is about $8 million.

Alan Clendenin

03:11:16PM I had those same concerns, and I called Mr. Perry, and we had a conversation and alleviated my concerns. What are we missing? I appreciate -- he gave me simple explanation, but simple enough for someone like me to understand. Money, I will recognize that, out of the General Fund, personnel budget represents less than an 1% adjustment.

Bill Carlson

03:11:46PM My colleagues hear me ask questions. That is because they are 50 or whatever community leaders that are watching that are looking through the documents and they are trying to ask the same questions.

Alan Clendenin

03:12:03PM Just Stephanie. [Laughter]

Bill Carlson

03:12:07PM But the idea is that they -- as the public is watching, they want to make sure there is transparency for them. Not to try to waste anybody's time. Just to make sure we have a full airing of everything especially because there are some things like the $11 million. That didn't sound right.

Alan Clendenin

03:12:27PM Any other questions on item 23?

Lynn Hurtak

03:12:30PM I think he has more.

Guido Maniscalco

03:12:32PM You have more?

Alan Clendenin

03:12:34PM I had such a good briefing. American rescue plan act, $80.4 million we got from the federal government with covid. We had a requirement to encumber all the funds last December and expend the funds in two years. And of the $80 million plus all the interest learned over the program. We will finalize that. And you know, we had a lot of programs. We did fire and police, fire vehicles, police vehicles, facilities, capital projects, fire capital projects, and really helped us recover our revenues lost within the General Fund during covid. FEMA, we went long without a [knocking] -- a storm from 2004 to 2017. And we have been hit, so we have been in FEMA. We are working and this resolution addresses experiences related to milton and helene. We are working with the federal government on helene and idalia. Idalia, it is up to the state to review that, and we are working dilligently with the federal government of our claims for helene and milton. Under the call share agreement, federal government picks up 75%, 12 and a half by the state and local. And I will tell what the categories are, categories c-g. Luckily, President Biden said for categories a and b, debris and hurricane preparedness, 100% reimbursement by the federal government. So we went ahead around calculated whatever the water, and Solid Waste and wastewater and encumbrances, and an alternative we chose instead of going out and get debt like st. petersburg there.

03:15:02PM Councilwoman Hurtak.

Lynn Hurtak

03:15:04PM How are we doing on the reimbursement on these hurricane funds because I know Mr. Rogero came back to us. Maybe it was storm before and basically said we are getting some of that back. How are we doing? Sure which came up first, idalia but ian, but whatever the storm was, I was in the emergency operations center getting texts five years after irma that we finally closed. So it is a very long process. My understanding on irma and ian. Irma -- sorry, idalia and ian, they have been fully obligated by the government, and the state has to do their review, currently under way right now. The state is the grant -- who is receiving the money for under the federal government. We are a sub-grant agreement. And the State of Florida wants to ensure their if they give us their money, that we actually earned it. And they required a 100% audit for erma and that took some time. Now as far as helene and milton, we have submitted our claims. We have worked with FEMA. We worked with our consultant. We feel pretty good. For everything -- the small projects. And how FEMA does capital projects is anything under $1 million, they are not going to come out and in. They will just go ahead and write you a check and say we have a series of parks. We are going to group them together to try to get $1 million and this will go through. We have two big projects. Obviously, fire station 17. And I apologize forgetting the name of the pier. I keep forgetting it.

03:17:09PM Ballast Point pier.

Michael Perry

03:17:11PM Ballast Point peer. My apologies. They are large projects because will exceed $1 million. They will be treated sort of like a capital project. Now FEMA has come down and have looked at fire station 17, and they have looked at the Ballast Point pier. They also looked at the -- at the dam. And the dam they said that wasn't caused by the hurricane. So they -- so they are looking at it. And I am going to bifurcate the fire station 17. We are getting reimbursed for the temporary housing that the fire fighters are in. They realize we can't put them in that facility. And our next step is to work because -- I don't think we want to replace fire -- rebuild fire station 17 as is, but we do some mitigation efforts for fear installation 17. Again our consultant whit o'brian is working with our staff and working with looking to FEMA. If you can put it back on the wolf, those who don't know, the Saturday debris removal and the emergency protective measure is when we basically lock employees into the emergency response centers, a, b, and 1, 2 and 3. I apologize and we have people at fire station, police force and the emergency operations center., the preparation of our facility and categories from roads, bridges, and Parks and Recreation. So any questions on FEMA? The next two, reconciliation. Recognizes additional revenue from the golf course of that $700,000 and increase the reserves. That puts us in a very good place next year, to have a golf course with that funding. That is $700,000. And finally streetcar. One of the things the streetcar did in '25 is hit us with cost allocation. They never did before. They said this is what will cost to operate it without bringing in their overhead. Moving back and forth of how they allocated that and part of the increases part of that increase is costal occasion and streetcar revenues -- streetcar fund balance and taking $700,000 from the General Fund to pay for that. And kind of unique on how we manage financially the street car not a transfer from here to there. That concludes my comments on this, which I think is agenda item number 29.

Lynn Hurtak

03:20:53PM 26.

Alan Clendenin

03:20:53PM A motion to move item 23.

Luis Viera

03:20:56PM So moved.

Lynn Hurtak

03:20:58PM 23 we haven't talked about yet.

Alan Clendenin

03:21:01PM That was.

Lynn Hurtak

03:21:07PM Before he moves to 23, I want Hagar -- I'm sorry, Miss Kopesky to go over this, because I think Councilman Carlson has got a good point about what we are spending on personnel because a big topic we discussed during the budget but often -- we don't know where it goes.

Alan Clendenin

03:21:32PM We will hold off on the motion, Miss Kopesky.

Hagar Kopesky

03:21:40PM Hello, Hagar Kopesky. A component of this related to personnel. When I say personnel, I mean, specifically not the pension portion or the other -- let's cal it general wages and other. There were questions after this hit the agenda and to break this out in some major buckets mike said a one-time expense when you have a build-up. Referred to something you will see in this column for council and that did occur in other departments as well. So terminally as a category was $370,000 of that one million one. Second column in the area where you will basically saying in some fashion outside of typical -- let's call it cost of living and other, there were adjustments that were made to salaries over the course of the year. And these departments felt those in a way to make adjustments hence, part of the reallocation resolution. I will pause on the third column, mike. Because just because there is an unique aspect to the Convention Center where the particular -- let's call it line item that was used are other salaries and wages. We have not talked about this yet, so I don't expect to you necessarily address it. If you know it, that is great. >Michael Perry: Mike Perry, they may very well have TPD g or TFR working for the events and TPD and TFR costs back and what we use salaries and wages for.

03:23:48PM The others are much smaller. Just to confirm I am saying this correctly for certain departments in the budget, you would assume there could be a grant allocation that would offset the salarie,s and I notice, in this particular case, it may have been that you had thought there would be some existing in Revenue and Finance, for example, and if that doesn't have the opportunity to occur, it will have a -- I won't say "negative," but offsetting impact to that particular line. That is component as well. For the most part, two biggest components is the one-time effect of terminate leave and what will happen after the budget.

Alan Clendenin

03:24:29PM Councilwoman Hurtak.

Lynn Hurtak

03:24:30PM Quick question, the 180 in contract admin and 100,000 in EBO. How many people are in there.

Michael Perry

03:24:38PM EBO added one position that accounted for that. Either one or two positions. But I know it was one. And contract admin. I will have to go -- -- I don't have that answer.

Lynn Hurtak

03:24:56PM I am just saying because those are big numbers. That is an interesting one.

Alan Clendenin

03:25:00PM Councilman Carlson, did you have something?

Bill Carlson

03:25:03PM Yeah, I just thought of something else. Are we allowed -- I know this is miss Kopesky's thing. But are we allowed to approve an EBO budget with a new rules from the attorney general?

Lynn Hurtak

03:25:21PM Economic and business?

Alan Clendenin

03:25:24PM I would say this off-line.

Bill Carlson

03:25:27PM I don't know what the words are.

Alan Clendenin

03:25:28PM It may mean something that we don't --

Bill Carlson

03:25:33PM The other thing is my -- is there -- on the Convention Center. Sorry, it is late in the day.

Alan Clendenin

03:25:46PM I will make a motion that we never look at spreadsheets again after lunch again.

Michael Perry

03:25:50PM That will make the budget public hearings real quick.

Bill Carlson

03:25:56PM Is the Convention Center set up by an enterprise fund?

Michael Perry

03:26:02PM No, sir, it is not in the General Fund and you can go either way.

Bill Carlson

03:26:07PM Can we set it up as an enterprise fund?

Michae Perry

03:26:11PM Really up to the administration.

Bill Carlson

03:26:12PM Up to the administration or City Council?

Michael Perry

03:26:15PM I will punt on that and let you all arm wrestle on that.

Bill Carlson

03:26:18PM My question is, is there a P&L just for the Convention Center? Because we keep seeing all these costs coming in from different -- especially the capital cost and a heavy burden often the CRA. I wonder, is there one place where all that is --

Michael Perry

03:26:36PM For the Convention Center, yes, we had to do special reporting because of the debt from the Convention Center.

Bill Carlson

03:26:42PM All the operating expenses and everything is brought in? Buffer% yes.

03:26:47PM We can talk about that off-line.

Alan Clendenin

03:26:50PM This is bonded money.

Michael Perry

03:26:52PM Again, I would just -- while the Convention Center is making money, what they are -- during covid, they weren't having any conventions. The General Fund supported that. Didn't have to miss Any of the employees and redireced their activities and at that the point, the Convention Center was a losing net expense. It was losing, and it was picked up by the General Fund. And we are sort of lucky that we have a good Convention Center. And they are general legal earning a net income. But that is without cost allocation.

Bill Carlson

03:27:29PM Now not including the subsidy from the CRA and other cost allocations.

Michael Perry

03:27:37PM Not on that. Only subsidy on the CRA is to pay the debt.

Bill Carlson

03:27:42PM Reason why I ask. Typically, the documents -- the last time in the CFO presented documents to us and on the enterprise funds. Revenue on one page and the cost on the other. Not an income statement. We kind of aded it up on our own and saw there were several that were losing money. And fred and his team had worked harold to turn parking into a surplus. I want to make sure we are looking into these verily because I ask a lot of questions. On some terms the administration doesn't quite know. I want to make sure there are places where all the numbers are so there is full transparency with the public. Thank you.

Guido Maniscalco

03:28:30PM Move those items.

Lynn Hurtak

03:28:33PM We still need to --

Michael Perry

03:28:36PM Are we done with the financial resolution, Mr. Chair?

Alan Clendenin

03:28:40PM Yes, please.

Michael Perry

03:28:41PM Okay. This one should go fairly quickly. The first thing I want to talk about, this is a noncash transction, purely on the balance sheet. There are cash transactions collecting revenues. That is cash. Cash incoming. This is a noncash transaction used to put the asset and the liability on the balance sheet. I talked to you of the bottom line. This is GAAP. We are in alignment with generally acceptable accounting principles. Read our last audit finding stand says we are in agreement with GAAP. This is something that we have to do. Now what happens as soon as. This financial resolution is the initial recognition.

Lynn Hurtak

03:29:45PM Pull the sheet down. Keep having that come down so we can see the top.

Michael Perry

03:29:58PM I was trying to avoid the.

Lynn Hurtak

03:30:06PM Perfect.

Michael Perry

03:30:07PM Okay. So this is the initial recognition of the full value of liability. And based on a contract. And what GASB has said, that you have entered a long term agreement for services, technology services, which in fact they are treating like a debt. And you will see it the last slide, as we do this during the year, there are is a debt expense. I highlighted the stuff on the right to show that you the Tampa Police number revenue is equal to the Tampa Police expenditure number. And the technology and innovation and revenue number is the same. I apologize. I did not plan on having that. I thought the colors would come through. Any questions on this?

Alan Clendenin

03:31:03PM We can see it on our monitors.

Michael Perry

03:31:06PM Okay. What happens during the annual -- the budget here?

Alan Clendenin

03:31:11PM Now zoom out. So the annual budget expenditures. Currently before sbita, this will be an operating expense. Primarily out of bulk hardware and software and other technology line items, but we are still paying $1,000. After sbida, the 2-b is paying an interest expense of $150. And a principal payment of $850 is still $1,000 out the door. We are placing it in different categories within the budget. Now I talked to my fixed asset supervisor this morning. How do you calculate that interest rate? Well, he said you figure out the last quarter what the interest rate is, and you do it like that. So you sign a contract like for oracle. Not an interest rate. We combine it for the sbita.

03:32:21PM Mr. Perry, I am concerned of the mental well being. You have the biggest smaller on your face. You got totally giddy talking of pre sbita and post sbita. It was like santa claus slid down the chimney. There is something seriously wrong. I suggest you seek help. [Laughter]

Lynn Hurtak

03:32:44PM We love this.

Guido Maniscalco

03:32:45PM This is happiness.

Michael Perry

03:32:46PM Again, there is Professor Perry. Like -- you know, lee hoefsler retired.

Alan Clendenin

03:32:56PM You started glowing.

Michael Perry

03:32:58PM And they put me in charge of the accounting office too. I graduated u.t. Degree of accounting in 1982. Took me 43 years for me to do an accounting job.

Alan Clendenin

03:33:11PM My goodness.

Michael Perry

03:33:14PM What is the financial resolution, $30.6 million.

Alan Clendenin

03:33:19PM Bring it down a bit.

Naya Young

03:33:21PM Professor Perry, can you bring it down a bit. Thank you.

Michael Perry

03:33:26PM The exxon contract, I believe it as ten-year contract. That 28.9 will be advertised over the ten years. On-base, 1.1. Local Option Gas Tax, stormwater operations for city works. And that comprises the $30.6 million. Does council have any questions?

Alan Clendenin

03:33:51PM Any questions? Councilwoman Hurtak.

Lynn Hurtak

03:33:53PM I want to say thank you explaining that and $30 million is a big number that can freak people out. A good thing that we are able to say okay, we just did passes that axon contract and will be over ten years. Doesn't mean there is money in the bank necessarily, but just a debit.

Michael Perry

03:34:15PM Yes, ma'am.

Lynn Hurtak

03:34:22PM I know they have little extra work, but we will get fewer e-mails.

Bill Carlson

03:34:27PM Why I am asking questions will keep us from getting e-mails tomorrow. I would recommend that the axon one be on a different item. I don't know why the axon -- why a $28 million one with a whole bunch of little ones. Seems like the little ones could be on a separate.

Michael Perry

03:34:45PM You are not approving the axon contract here.

Bill Carlson

03:34:52PM Because the numbers are so big, the public, in particular, pays attention to you. Implied in what I'm saying, a lot of skeptical people in the community right now. And because of the way numbers -- the administration has has decided to present numbers in the past. So as they are looking skeptically with this, looking at little ones with a big ones. People are looking and saying is the administration trying to pull a fast one on this.

Michael Perry

03:35:25PM I will take that into consideration.

Bill Carlson

03:35:28PM Not talking of the contracting development department.

Alan Clendenin

03:35:32PM Council member Viera, are you going to move these item?

Luis Viera

03:35:36PM Yes, I am. A gentleman for item 62 needs to leave in about 25 minutes, I may have that one next.

Lynn Hurtak

03:35:44PM That one is next.

Alan Clendenin

03:35:46PM A motion from council member Maniscalco to move 23-26. Second from council member Miranda. All in favor, say aye. Opposed. Ayes have it unanimously. Thank you very much.

Michael Perry

03:35:57PM Thank you, council. Have a good weekend.

Alan Clendenin

03:36:00PM Appreciate your work. Thank you. So we are at -- where are we at? 62. We tried to do 62 but you weren't here earlier.

Luis Viera

03:36:17PM My bad. That is why I asked for it because I felt bad. May I set this up, Mr. Chair.

Alan Clendenin

03:36:23PM Please do.

Luis Viera

03:36:24PM Can I set this up? Thank you very much. I appreciate everybody up here. We have here really good people. Stephen stevenson who is here. Raquel poncho with our A.D.A. Section. Sergeant mel Gardner here and a special young manner rick kaiser. Up if may come up, you all may. So this is something that I motioned for. It is for these slips. And I will talk about them. But eric here is a 31-year-old young man, who was hired as one of our special needs interns here in the City of Tampa under the program we passed a few years ago. And I will get into my frustration on that, by the way, because I am not letting that go. Eric is a young man on the spectrum. And what he is here for is something really special, but on the larger note, it is why this program should exist and fully funded and why we should have more than two or three interns. Everybody up here agrees on that. Not adversarial of anybody in that nature. Eric was hired to work with shawn. He works in purchasing, righ, eric? Okay, in purchasing and he continues to work. If you look at what the eric brought us today is symbolic and representative why this program is so good and why we got to do it and fully fund it. Eric is looking to be an ambassador for autism and for sensory challenges here in the City of Tampa. And I certainly hope we do that. My question is on this program that we will hear from eric, how meaner ricks have not been able to benefit. We are going to mary Florida them. About giving somebody a shot and giving a chance who wants to work who parents want their loved ones with an intellectual disability or special needs or otherwise will have another shot of life and hearing from people from different perspectives. We are hearing attack on pluralism and diversity in the workplace. The whole idea if somebody has a disability, somebody is a veteran, somebody is an african-american, Hispanic, lgbtq, whatever it may be, they come from a perspective that other can learn from. To me that is not political but a sermon on the mount, but whatever. What eric is here to talk about are these blue slips, and I let him explain what they are. Eric came up with a program whenever a person on spectrum -- and Raquel will talk about how we can expand this, and I will be making motion on this. If they are pulled over by law enforcement and hand this blue slip over and inform the officer that they are on the spectrum. If I may, eric had given me -- I will not read this all, but a letter from his mother, Susan. Appointment that prevented her to come -- prevented her from coming. If you want to paraphrase and pull some of the key points out of it.

03:39:48PM Very briefly. I am Susan kaiser. Proud mother of an autistic son Eric Kaiser -- I am getting teary-eyed. It happens. Who stands before you today from the perspective of a parent and educator. The blue envelope program can offer peace of mind that our child can travel safely and confidently and navigate a difficult situation like a traffic stop without endangering themselves and the officer on scene presenting the blue envelope to the officer. He or she will know they are working with an individual who may have difficulty responding to them. Eric was involved in a traffic accident. Blue envelope program does not officially exists, but he keeps 03:40:31pm a blue envelope in the glove box of his car. The police officer arrived, and eric followed the instructions on the envelope keeping his hands on the steering wheel. He informed the officer he had a blue envelope. The officer wasn't sure what to do with the envelope. He side checked the back flap with the envelope to help the officer with information. And eric -- they began to respond to each other. Interaction with the officer and eric went smoothly with less stress. So from your mom. That is awesome. She loves you and so proud of you. So I wanted to set that up. So you with the chair's permission have at it.

Alan Clendenin

03:41:15PM Can you move close to the podium and start with your name. Eric Kaiser. T&i contractor, I guess. For me, this was a passion project of mine. I originally come from Pennsylvania, as you guys can see on the envelope. It is not here from Florida. It's -- just something that I felt is always been kind of a sticking point. I lived in Georgia, and I had a friend who had gotten stopped also on the spectrum. It didn't quite turn out too well. He was put in the back and his parents had to come and collect him. Since then, he was pretty much a shut-in. Especially didn't really -- so -- it's -- just something that I feel would be a good way to have a little more peace of mind both for the driver and for the officer. And not to mention the families of those drivers. So that's really my thoughts on it. I would have prepared a little more, and I -- I was just going to say to prepare a little more, but just something I feel is very necessary like a friction point. Remove that friction point. Make it safer and easier for people to recognize as that sometimes the driver may not have the interaction. For me, the more recent one, like in the letter, interaction of pulling off to the side was a little more nervewracking for me just because the car already said -- it was overheating. I don't know if I -- but thankfully the officer was calm after I said I have a blue envelope. There are instructions. He was kind of --

03:43:39PM Hold on a second. Would you mind, Lisa, putting this on the wolf for us or the whole thing. That is the letter that is inside the blue envelope.

03:44:16PM Throw that down on the bottom where the lines are.

Guido Maniscalco

03:44:20PM Higher.

Alan Clendenin

03:44:24PM Look at you micromanaging.

03:44:30PM Thank you, Lisa.

03:44:38PM Very good. Coordinator. Thank you, chair and council members for having us present today. We also appreciate council member Viera and Miranda for actually making this motion. Truly appreciate all of your compassion and work toward meeting our community members' needs including those with disabilities. I see you do tremendous work very regularly. So before I actually jump into what we are proposing, I would like to share that this local public safety coordinating council is actually examining a program that they may be bringing in to the larger Tampa Bay area. So we are going to be monitoring closely what they are going to be instituting. Because we want to make sure whatever the City of Tampa is instituting will be cohesive with the overall goals. People travel in and out of our city boundaries all the time so we wanted to cohesive. Before we jump into the actual details, I want to debrief you a little bit of the Tampa Police Department help us help you special needs registry. This was instituted back in 2018, a way that our community members, residential, have the opportunity to register their address with their -- either they themselves or their loved ones with information on their disability, any communication limitations, any behaviors that law enforcement may see if they actually report to the household. In recent years, we expanded that based on a recommendation by an autism-friendly advisory board member. She has a teenaged son, who is going to be driving. He is autistic, and she had concerns of stops during traffic violations or whatever. We actually now include vehicle registration into the TPD special needs registry. Again, that is all strictly voluntarily. What will happen is when an officer reports to residence on the address or reports to a vehicle, the person's envelopes will automatically come up. Individuals have the opportunity to provide as much detail to our officers as much -- within the form. In conjunction with eric and TPD Sergeant Ross and angulopolis, my intern and I did some research and discovered a couple of wallet card programs which was mentioned in the oral motion. Invisible disability association national disability wallet card program. They charge community members 20 or $25 in order to receive a very specialized card. Disability independence group has a wallet card. They charge individuals $10 to receive a specific disability card. The concern is we don't want to charge our community member any type of fee. Some with that -- and also, eric and our sergeant expressed concerns that the nervousness of the traffic stop, that is a high-stress. People are going to be very anxious. They may have difficulty in finding a small card in their wallet and also may forget they have something in their wallet. A blue envelope program propose by eric. This will be placed in the person's glove box where the typical practice they would have their vehicle registration with it. And in turn, in that they are in a nervous situation, they always have to go for that vehicle registration. They will see the blue envelope and. This turn will be able to pull that information out. Where we would like to kind of address, you know, a typical program is because we have community members who have a wide variety of disabilities that may limit their capability to interact with law enforcement, possibly follow instructions by the officers. I am speaking about not only individuals that have autism, but individuals who are deaf and hard of hearing, individuals with medical conditions, and psychiatric disabilities as well. We would like for TPD to expand Tampa beyond people who have autism, but also have the ability to be able to benefit from the services. So what we would like to do -- again the public safety coordinating council has some information. And this can be expanded with some additional information. For example, the information for how to communicate with the individual on the envelope could also be provided. But this is what we are envisioning. So that individuals have the ability to register and receive this on their own. The wallet -- sorry, the blue envelope would actually contain a form where the specific community member can write their information on their disability diagnosis. How they might be limited. Are they might be limited in speaking, limited in hearing, and processing information. As well as provide information about their limitations of being able to respond. They may not be able to be speak. They may not be able to answer questions. They may have limited eye contact. May have some stemming behaviors. And may communicate with american sign language. Writing notes back and forth. They may be able to see the officer's face and facial expressions when they are communicating with them and other types of communication needs as well. Again, the goal really is, as the motion mentioned, people are travelling in and out in our city boundaries and cohesive approach will be what is needed, and we are excited to know that the public safety coordinating council is actually examining something. While this is something that we are hoping to be able to bring, we are going to want to make sure we are cohesive with regards to what the overall area is doing. So I have TPD officer -- sorry, sergeant here available for any questions that you may have swap as well. And I am happy to answer any questions that huff as well.

Lynn Hurtak

03:50:58PM Yes, board member Miranda.

Charlie Miranda

03:51:01PM Thank you, madam chair. We like to thank council member Viera for thinking of everyone and making something of this nature come about because of him bringing it to our attention. And solving a problem before the problem exists. This is preventive of something that could happen that could be much more tragic if this wasn't here. In fact when I read this now, I think all of us should carry one in the car up in the sun visor. Can you imagine -- I am not a police officer. Can you imagine with that lady in the uniform being so miles to and happy that you get stopped. Can I see your driver's license, and you say just a second. It is under my seat. What do you think she is going to think of first. Under the seat? The glove compartment next to me. What is going -- so I think defensive in your own life. That is where the possibility of something existing. So change with council member Viera and that everyone can carry one and put it up there and say what you need. Here is what I have. Here are my papers officers and what you need to ask me. I think that would solve a lot of the problems of problems. I am not a hot head, I don't believe, but sometimes I get itchy likes any human being. Bad day at the office and didn't sleep as well. First thing, you get pulled over by an officer. By damn, look what happened to me. Didn't anything right. Nobody drinks. Nobody gets a dui. If you don't believe that, you are crazy. People do that. And somebody may have had one or two drinks and driving with a dui and they want to argue. If they have that, may think of giving it to you and may solve that situation to some degree. Council member Viera, this may go further than what we are talking about today. Thank you for bringing it our attention.

Alan Clendenin

03:53:00PM Councilman Maniscalco.

Guido Maniscalco

03:53:02PM Thank you very much. Councilwoman Viera and everybody here. My stepdaughter is on the spectrum. She is considered severe, and diagnosed with autism. She needs full-time care, somebody with her all the time. So she will never drive more than likely. However, when you talk of expanding this, and what you are showing on the wolf vision. People may not know how to communicate. She is limited to about 80 words. Even though she is the perfect child -- and I hope my wife is -- I say it all the time, she is a perfect child. Sometimes it is difficult, but there could be a situation. She is 13. She is getting older. You know, to have something like this in her backpack. You have to keep an eye on her at all times and god forbid we lose sight of her. If the situation comes about and people don't know, whether it is a police officer or an individual, at least there is something that, whether a card or this sheet that they can understand and, now we avoid a tragic situation. So this is good, especially for -- as it has already been said with the drivers. This is wonderful. I will take this home and show my wife and say, look, there is something we are trying to do and let be council member Viera who always has been a champion with A.D.A. And everything that he does. I see here, driver is nonverbal. Driver is verbal. Not exposed to people with disabilities. That they discriminate. They are scattered and don't know how to react and what to do. I am glad that Tampa is talking about this, and open to this. We are known as a city welcoming to everybody. Everybody has a place here. And this we care for them. You said it, it has already been said, I am very happy to see this. Thank you.

Alan Clendenin

03:55:00PM Councilwoman Young.

Naya Young

03:55:04PM I want to thank Viera for bringing this to us. An awesome presentation. Couple of words that we talk of compassion and empathy. I will go to add just education but also, you know, understanding and embracing, you know, everyone around us that lives. We all -- we all have the same Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. But how you go throughout the day is very different. So this is -- I think it is amazing and definitely a step in the right direction. And I would love to see this -- you know, go further. We need a lot -- we need a lot more compassion, empathy and understanding of everyone that lives here. Thing is great. And eric, great job.

Alan Clendenin

03:55:50PM Councilman Carlson.

Bill Carlson

03:55:52PM Thing is a great idea. Thank you for bringing it forward. Let me know how I can support it, please.

Alan Clendenin

03:55:57PM Thank you, Councilwoman Hurtak.

Lynn Hurtak

03:55:59PM Can't let everybody else go. So this is a wonderful program. I just want to say thank you, eric, for bringing it to our attention and having council member Viera come and bring it to all of us. It is great to hear. It is nice that we are starting, but it is even a better thing while we are thinking about it, a larger regional entity is as well. And so -- so while we are kind of on pause we wait for the regional entity to make the decision. I am happy that we are all discussing this, and it will move forward and I look forward to what the policy is and once give a decision coming forward. Eric, you have to state your name again. I had a tentative name for project. Blue peace. Spelled peace, peace of mind, but blue, also like police.

03:57:04PM Wow. That is awesome. I love that. Thank you.

Alan Clendenin

03:57:08PM Thank you. We have a motion? Councilman Viera.

Luis Viera

03:57:12PM Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If I may, I will motion on April 2, autism awareness month, as well as by the way, we are getting a report on the disability internship program that day. But I will motion for an in-person staff report, including my main man eric to come for a report on the interactions that staff had with our community partner including Plant City, Temple Terrace, so forth, sheriff's, office, state attorney and so forth on implementing an agreed procedure for this program. As Miss Pancho correctly said, not only for autism but all disabilities. That my motion and eric, I will take now visit with sheriff ross, the sheriff, to talk about your vision because us a lot of heart and takes a lot of what our jewish brothers and sisters call chutzpah. Good bless you. I am proud of you. You know what, let's give him a round of applause. [Applause]

Alan Clendenin

03:58:15PM Thank you, eric. Thank you, staff. Appreciate that. A motion from Councilman Viera. Seconded from council member Miranda. All in favor, say aye. Opposed. Ayes have it unanimously. Thank you so much. And new business. Items 63 and 25. Clerk, please set a timer on this item please.

Charlie Miranda

03:58:36PM 30 seconds.

Alan Clendenin

03:58:38PM Seriously, set a timer. Seriously set a timer. Ten minutes. 63 and 25. Moving 25 with 63.

Guido Maniscalco

03:58:51PM Make up with new business for an hour.

Alan Clendenin

03:58:59PM You are like perry. Giddy with all this stuff. You come to life in the afternoon. Miss Wynn.

Ocea Wynn

03:59:10PM Great day. Good evening, almost good night, council. Good day. This is --

Alan Clendenin

03:59:20PM Start with your name.

Ocea Wynn

03:59:21PM I am Ocea Wynn, administrator of neighborhood and community affairs. Council, you asked for us to come before you today to discuss, talk to you about the tree trust fund, which is the council motion cm 25-15694. However, before I get into the discussion of the fund, I think it is prudent that we speak to you in terms of who you makes up the tree trust fund team within the City of Tampa. Almost every administrative department plays a role in trees. And I want to make sure that you are aware of that so that when we are speaking about trees, it is not one entity. So we have Jean Duncan's group. Administrator Duncan. Infrastructure and mobility. We have administrator for the perspective area for the right-of-way permitting. We have administrative Abbye Feeley, who is responsible for the Planning and the collection of the fees. My administrative area, neighborhood and community affairs. We such the plantings and the maintenance. We have the Legal Department responsibility for the ordinance and the budget department that ensures we have proper checks and balances what is coming out into the funds and what is going out of the funds. So we will start this presentation with today's discussion and end it with the council item number 25, which is the tree canopy. Today, we will be providing an overview on the tree trust fund expenditures. The mitigation fees that have been collected. Update on some of the programs such as the Tampa tree program -- tree mapping and reporting dashboard. And all of this the support for the reimbursement resolution that we had comments earlier. I forgot and negated to mention that we have representaton from the chief of staff's office, and that is our sustainability and resiliency guru Kayla Caselli. So the motion in and of itself is that council, you directed us to come back to demonstrate that the data under section 1686f, that we are using -- we are following the code prior to authorizing the transfers. This section includes the district level reporting from the five tree districts, as well as the accountability and visibility of the data that aligns and support the ordinance before -- as some of the concerns that residents in our community tree activists regarding how the funds are used and what we are doing with the funds as they support the motion. Sorry, I did not bring up -- its let in the day. Bring up the presentation please.

Alan Clendenin

04:02:56PM There we go.

Ocea Wynn

04:02:58PM I apologize for that. Okay. There is too much technology. There we go. Sorry about that. So the tree trust fund is found in chapter every 16, article v, and these are the specific areas. And I want to draw your attention specifically to the reporting aspect of the area that you asked us to ensure that we are following before you approve the -- the -- the transfer of the funds from the tree trust fund to the Water department. So specifically, we are looking at -- you are interested in the payments that have been received by each permit. Expenditure by tree times. The locations for each tree planted. And then the health check of the trees for the six and 12 months on the fees collected. As was mentioned earlier, and you very well may be aware, today, there has been approximately $6 million fees collected total between FY '20 and FY '25. If you look at the diagram before you in South Tampa and accumulated most of the fees in the approximately $80 million in total between those two particular areas. This is another depiction of the previous slide; however, this shows the -- the amount of trees that have been collected by each Planning district. Again, you can see that central Tampa and South Tampa, the amount of fees collected throughout the years have far exceeded what has budget collected in the other areas. The funds received in each of the districts are right. If the tree is not planted, money is paid into the fund, each of the funds, the tree expenditure to date. We have one expenditure that we are in the process of requesting -- we are requesting both. Let me back up. Re-leaf Tampa, the development of the planting plans for trees within four problems within the City of Tampa. And the pipes planting. This is the $334,000 that we -- that was brought before you have earlier today. Water department reimbursement for the trees that were planted in the central and south districts. Some of the tree trust funds -- tree programs that we have of is for one -- let me back up. The tree trust programs, the strategy that we use which is a multilayered approach that is in collaboration with not only I the City departments but our partners. Tremendous neighborhood program and right-of-way planting program led by our Forestry Division. Our tree-mendous. Our tree-mendous Tampa. I am all over the place. Let me go back. The tree-mendous Tampa program is a flag we are he is planned with the city greenways, right-of-ways, street ways with the of Forestry Division. The Tampa re-leaf program. The City of Tampa program that offers a comprehensive site-base aid approach of increasing our canopy throughout the city in our public land. We have the mayor's tree giveaway where we give away approximately 500 to 1,000 annual trees annually to our residents. When a partnership with "plant your heart out" with keep Tampa Bay beautiful a program where we support the canopy with the resiliency efforts throughout the department with planting trees within the City of Tampa. We have a tree mapping and reporting dashboard, and I will have to be three come up -- as you have questions to come up and provide the status of this mapping and dashboard program, because this, too, supports the reporting of the chapter 16 portion of that free canopy. Before we have get into the reimbursement resolution. I want to ask you what questions you have that are related to this.

Alan Clendenin

04:09:00PM Councilwoman Hurtak.

Lynn Hurtak

04:09:02PM Thank you. This is my motion, and I appreciate it. If we can go back to the trust fund expenditure. I think it is page 11.

04:09:11PM Is the presentation up? It was for a second and now back down. Now we can see it -- there we go. Page 11. So this one.

Ocea Wynn

04:09:34PM Yes, ma'am.

Lynn Hurtak

04:09:36PM Obviously, the pipes planting, the trust fund expenditure, we are going to decide on that today. But the re-leaf, have we approved the expenditure?

Ocea Winn

04:09:49PM For the re-leaf?

Lynn Hurtak

04:09:52PM I want to know -- I want to know if that has been approved by council, spending of this money to develop 11 planting plants.

Kayla Caselli

04:10:02PM Kayla Caselli, sustainability and resilience 04:10:05pm officer. Well, that has. Yeah, that has been approved. It doesn't -- every expenditure does not come before council for the trust as long as it is spent in the correct Planning districts. Believe, for the development of the planting plans. And that is what the 232 was, of which we probably spent maybe about 160 would be mile guess on invoice so far to develop the Planning and growth management plans. We have done public outreach for those projects and we developed -- I think we are in the order of 11 total.

Lynn Hurtak

04:10:56PM I am going to go back to point of "not everything comes in front of council." Anything under $200,000 doesn't come to council. Everything over $200,000 should be.

04:11:15PM Yeah, that is the kind of thing that the public doesn't like to see. As you heard this morning, this was a plan that took forever to be put together. And the public really wants this to be spent on type 1 trees. Type 1 trees. Not -- and I understand once we have a plan, but I would be very upset to know that some of this money is moved around. So I don't understand why the pipes. Why this is coming in front of us then why that didn't come in front of us.

04:12:00PM Yes. I am just lost. What the Water department already spent and they are asking to be reimbursed with tree trust fund money.

04:12:16PM The same thing, if this didn't come in front of us of the development plans, why does it come in front of us now.

Ocea Wynn

04:12:24PM Ocea Wynn, community and neighborhood affairs. There were separate contracts. Grown what Kayla will explain. They are separate contracts. I understand what Councilwoman Hurtak is saying, the separate contracts since they were less than the required amount, why are we bringing this before you now? Yes. So the way we manage this because each contract was unique to the district, the combination of the contracts was $24 t 234,000 and I understand your question and concern, yes.

Lynn Hurtak

04:13:03PM So, I'm not really happy about that. But let's move on to page 14. The tree-mendous program. I heard great things of the tree-mendous program. But we have to add in slide 14.

Ocea Wynn

04:13:26PM Sorry, end of day.

Lynn Hurtak

04:13:28PM This is for planting in the right-of-way. We are never going to re-leaf the city without starting to plant on private property as well. So we need to add private property to the tree-mendous Tampa plan. That is a priority. Especially again -- we are talking of type 1 trees. As far as page 15, when you are talking of the Tampa re-leaf, the comprehensive and science-based approach. This what the 11 plans are doing? Okay? Yes, I thought so and you want to make sure the -- as far as page 16, the mayor's tree giveaway. Really want to say, appreciate that this year it was only natives and that needs to continue. No more bottle brushings. None of these trees that don't do anything for the actual job we need for them to do.

Alan Clendenin

04:14:21PM I have a motion being that.

Lynn Hurtak

04:14:23PM Yes, I know, you probably do. But the plant your heart out. Plant your heart out is a great program. Actually -- my community park has received the benefits from that. But as we participate, again, what times of trees? From this -- from this free trust fund, it is -- the public is making it incredibly clear it will be type one trees only. Not bottle brushings. Not -- none of the crepe myrtle trees. None of those. We can not spend this tree trust fund, because they are right. The trees are disappearing. The trees that we would have gotten a ton of mitigation money for, we lost probably two-thirds -- or three quarters of those in helene and milton and that money is never coming to 04:15:15pm us. That was a traumatic time for everyone, but looking at it from a monetary perspective, we have a lot less money in that fund than we woo have if we waited for people to pay to have those removed. So I am going to go back to my -- one of my questions for this -- for there are project is, what is the protocol when a planted tree dies as soon as because some of the things that we have seen. We had some problems with plantings happening, and then the trees die. Like if I buy a tree from lowe's or home depot, I have 365 days to return that tree planted or not and I can get a new tree and not having to pay for anything. I want to know what our process is if -- that be is a process. That is not a process. What do we to do replace those trees and how quickly can we get that done. That is a huge problem. The public, you are spending so much money on a tree and now it is dead.

Rory Jones

04:16:20PM I will speak with the pipes. Rory Jones with the Water department. I can speak with the pipes. We require the contractor to water it and do the inspection at the six-month and one-year interval. After that there was no contractual obligation. Now as far as the program goes itself, we hear but the type 1, the tree-mendous include the bottle brush and others in there. We heard loud and clear from our tree friends as well. When we volunteered add the tree into the program, the type 1 wasn't in the discussions at the moment. But six-month and one-year intervals.

Lynn Hurtak

04:17:07PM I have a larger question of how we landscaping and trees now.

Kayla Caselli

04:17:18PM Kayla Caselli, I want to respond to the previous thing to add more concept to that. Water department was basically responding to this when they raised their hand. Identifies tree planting opportunities in strategic places. Included partnering with different departments --

Lynn Hurtak

04:17:36PM Can you zoom out, we don't see the header on that.

Alan Clendenin

04:17:41PM A wheel at the very top. We were the one challenging City departments to do -- to come join on this mission of trying to plant more trees and not leave it to just -- not three is the correct number, but a few people in the parks and rec department whose everyday job is incorporating tree discussion.

04:18:05PM We asked them to do that as well, to reach out to different departments. A council discussion I was part of. The Water department the only one in the time saying we want to help you guys plant trees and doing these two pipes projects in Virginia Park and mcfarland park. A way while we are already in those neighborhoods investing in the underground infrastructure, we can leave that neighborhood with more canopy than we found them with. And how that when on their contractor hired a sub which was a landscape architect firm for go and identify tree locations on the engineer drawings. So we can try to make this more zoomed in. But basically, it is like we already have these drawings that show all the infrastructure. They show the underground utilities, the above-ground utilities, and they are trying to do what every arborist in the planet, right tree, right place. We try to only -- I hear guys on the type 1. I understand, and I want to plant as many type 1s as possible. On public-owned lands 4.5% of publicly owned lands that can accommodate a type 1 tree. The university of Florida, ifus extension said southern live oak needs over six feet minimum to accommodate a southern live oak in its full maturity. Not many spaces in your right-of-way as you all are familiar with our city that you can find six feet in every direction that we can plant that. We went in with the mentality as many type 1s and type 2s which include pine and cypress. Those are really great large trees that we can be adding in our palette of trees in our city sometimes more indicative of the ecosystem here previous to development are pine trees and cypress. So we were going in there with type 1, type 2, as many as possible, but we still believe it was better to have a tree even if it was type 3 than no tree at all. They still provide heat mitigation. They still provide ecosystem services. Water. They provide benefit to that neighborhood. And so the landscape architect went and, you know, chose the trees that was the right tree in the right place for the utilities. And we got -- I just also want to just say, there are was a pilot. Not meant to be a perfect program. We have lessons learned of what we he did well. What we can improve on. Just something to try something new to build a new muscle that the City of Tampa has never done before, that the Water department has never done before. This is way outside of their scope on a regular basis of delivering safe drinking water to our city.

Lynn Hurtak

04:20:56PM Thank you. The history of how we got here.

Alan Clendenin

04:21:02PM Name.

Lynn Hurtak

04:21:06PM Name.

Guido Maniscalco

04:21:07PM What is your name, sir.

Brad Baird

04:21:10PM Brad Baird, deputy administrator of infrastructure. This started early of summer 2024. Our sustainability and resilience officer whit remmer was looking to the tree trust fund to try to plant the trees in the right-of-way. To try to meet the city's goal what was stated of 30,000 trees. So he was looking for a vehicle to do this. The Water department volunteered to add. It wasn't in the original contract -- to add these over 200 trees to the contract to make that happen. So the plan was to add the trees to two of the neighborhoods we were working in, Virginia Park and mcfarland park. And this contract by change order, using the tree trust funds. We -- the contractor then retained a firm by the name of fisher landscaping, who has an arborist, to coordinate that effort, including the Planning, including working with the citizens on, you know, right place. Making sure we are not over utility lines, etc., etc. we planted trees from July 2024 through May of '25 as part of the contract. Watered the trees every month from September 2024 to June 2025. We then toward end of that contract, many of you will remember and many of you attended held a press conference on September 28 to celebrate the completion of the infrastructure work but adding the 237 trees to these two neighborhoods. So a couple of months ago, as you guys know, we proposed a change order to City Council to -- because the -- because the Water department, if you will, acted as a bank, until we could get the tree trust fund to reimburse the Water department that was proposed a couple of months ago and then continue. And, again, that was originally planned to use the tree trust fund. And then -- I just want to mention real quick, early on, several comments were made that the money was used to fund water infrastructure. It was not. Every penny was used to plant the trees. So I just wanted to give that history as a background.

Lynn Hurtak

04:23:57PM I am going to go back to my questions. Because I am still -- cost per tree. Little higher, but it includes -- not just the planting of the tree or the cost of the tree. There are times where you have to you stump grind and have to remove other components.

04:24:23PM What it? Honest.

04:24:31PM These questions are indicative of some things I am not really thrilled about. This was my motion. This was -- was to come in front of us. I is it not -- no one reached out to me to do a special like a premeeting. All you should have a preview meeting of it. I have a ton more questions. I am not really happy about this. I know you talked of t-tag, and I appreciate that. But you didn't come to me and talk to the rest of council to talk of our concerns. Because I am not inclined to give you this money. Inclined to give you the money for the type 1 trees and that's at the. That is what the community very, very consistently said they want to spend the money on. Especially if it is like $1400 a tree. $6 million will go very fast with $1400 a tree. It is --

04:25:24PM $1400 a tree. I get what goes into that, but, again, the public hears $1400 a tree. That is a lot of money. It is pricey. Part of the tree-mendous program. It included those type of trees. I heard loud and clear of the type 1. I understand where you are coming from. But not to punish for trying to do the right thing. We saw the canopy report. We heard the calls and cries for installing trees. And we are trying to do the right thing. I would hate to penalize the ratepayers for that extra effort that we are trying to do.

04:26:08PM Again, I appreciate it, but the issue here is not that you aren't trying to do the right thing. The issue is, if we approve this, we are setting the precedent that we will pay for trees that are not type 1 trees. I am adamant about this. My point that I am upset right now, that I think you should have come to each of us and answered these questions ahead of time and have been able to be have this conversation. I know you said you were available but not the same as coming to us and do a presentation saying, hey, this is a what we are thinking. Getting our feedback. Coming forward on this. Because then it wouldn't be a surprise, because, again, I am not okay with spending -- spending this money on -- on a bunch of trees that really aren't type 1. I understand it is hard to find places to plant type 1 trees, but that is not -- high pressure that was the intent of this -- the entire redo of the tree code. So I am going to let my other council members talk, but -- oh, and then one other thing. 30,000 trees is just a number. And I don't like to look at numbers. I want to go back to what Miss Casseli said, right tree. Right place. Doesn't matter the number of trees. We want to make sure we are putting the right trees in the right place. If we focus only on a number, we are not focusing on the actual goal of putting the trees we need back in our city. So I just want to make sure I put that out there. You know, let's not let perfect be the enemy of good here. And there are refinements and we can take the feedback that we heard and build that into going forward. I ask you to reconsider --

Alan Clendenin

04:28:04PM We are not done with this discussion yet. We will consider it. We will get there. Councilwoman Young has not spoken very much today. Council member Young.

Naya Young

04:28:14PM Of the 237 trees. Do we know what kind of trees they were? And it is really part of the tree-mendous program. Do you number of the species total? There are 12 -- yeah. Do you have them all there.

Brad Baird

04:28:38PM Yes, I have a list of all the species. Crepe myrtle/pine. Bottle brush. Bald cypress. Red maple. I don't have the number on this chart, but we can get them to you. Loquat. Red maple. Southern live oak. Sweet gum. Long leaf pine. To name a few. There are more as well. I will put it in that category.

Naya Young

04:29:12PM Do you know if any of them are still around? Are they still alive? There were some that did not make the hurricanes. There were some removed by the homeowners as well. But the overall majority are still alive today.

Alan Clendenin

4:29:29PM I believe Councilman Carlson was next and then Councilman Maniscalco.

Guido Maniscalco

4:29:32PM Yes, that's fine.

Bill Carlson

4:29:38PM We're all getting tired. You're at bat here so I'll ask you. And thanks to all of you, Ms. Wynn and everyone for trying to work through all of this with us. Here is the issue I have. I agree with what council member Hurtak said, but my issue with it is this. In my day job I work in government nonprofits and companies so I see everything. But the way I look at enterprise funds is the same way I look at business units. So, like, blooming brands has carrabba's and outback. Carrabba's and outback, I don't know a lot about their company individually, inside government agencies and inside companies, typically if carrabba's needs something from outback, they would have a contract between them that would say we need to buy these services from you. Maybe one of them gets a deal on something, so they buy some services. They wouldn't just make it an accounting thing. There would probably have to be contracts because people are incentivized on it. I think it was brad who said, rory or brad who said people think that we're taking away from or paying pipe services. Well, the way the public would look at this is that if we're using -- if you looked at the tree fund as an enterprise or as a business unit and you looked at water as a business unit, I understand trees are not, but if you looked at them as businesses, so then as a policy maker, we have to decide which bucket do we want to pull out of. So if we -- if water was going to pay for trees anyway and then we use the tree fund to subsidize that, what that indirectly is doing is enabling water to pay for more water pipes, right. But then it is reducing the tree fund that we might be able to use on something else. So an example -- you guys have a lot of work going on right now, if you need to get TPD to shut the roads down, do you reimburse TPD or do they do it for free? Time.

4:31:58PM What about if you repair a road? Do you charge -- does mobility pay you back for the roads? Services in a round about way, we are reimbursing the contractor. It depends on the situation.

4:32:13PM If you look at mobility as an account that has money in it, water as an account that has money in it, TPD, if we have cross-transactions -- my point is that it can't just be brad talked about some kind of accounting transaction that we approved a couple months ago. But to me, there should be some kind of agreement. There should be a policy decision. You all said you talked to whit about it.

4:32:40PM Whit was great but certain things under the charter that the mayor can approve hundred percent, but if there is a handshake agreement between the tree fund and Water department, then eventually that's going to come to us in an -- in a budget change like this. What I think we should have is some kind of simple agreements that say, hey, sustainability is asking us to, while our people are out there do this, and then it's -- and we're going to charge them on this basis. The whole deal is understood in advance and city policy as policy makers decide on that. Another question, if your workers are Planning these, are you charging back tree-mendous for the workers too? If somebody -- if a policy maker's number one priority was water, they would want to charge everything they could to tree-mendous because you need to keep as much money in water as possible. If your policy priority is trees, you want to keep as much money in trees and spend on that. I think to keep this clean and simple, I think there needs to not just be approval of where the money goes, but way before that, if you think there should be an agreement between two enterprise funds or some other source of revenues, it would be good to get the agreements approved in advance, not just a line item, but an understanding of what costs will be included. What kind of trees are we going to do. It doesn't have to be anything complicated.

4:34:10PM The second thing, I think that is across the board, not just with you guys. The second thing somebody mentioned 4%, the constituents said that they had had a conversation with you all about that, but I forgot the number, 2500 acres or something. It is a huge number of city-owned property where we could put trees. Although it might be a small percentage, there's still a very significant amount, as it at least was reported to me that we could put trees on. The last thing, from a branding perspective, I say this all the time, but we've got way too many logos, brands and names. Just in these slide, we have the tree-mendous program, plant your heart out, the mayor's tree program, and trees for Tampa. If you guys -- if the city was a client, I would say just call it the Tampa tree program and have all that underneath it. If you are partnering with some other organization like I used to be on the mayor's beautification, whatever the new name is, same thing now, but whatever group -- and all this other stuff. The number one thing, though, I really think if we have to look at these as individual businesses, because as we decide what money is going to each one, that is a huge policy decision about priorities that are set based on what we hear from the community. If we start moving money, it's not just an accounting change, it's a policy decision. So thank you.

Alan Clendenin

4:35:46PM Councilman Maniscalco.

Brad Baird

4:35:48PM Chairman, can I say two things? One, these trees were not going to be planted as part of the water project anyway. I want to make that clear. But really important thing that Councilwoman Hurtak said -- I'm sorry she walked out -- it's very difficult to find a spot to plant a type one tree in the right-of-way because of all the utilities, underground and overhead. So what she said about planting type one trees as all of this program from the tree trust fund, they should go on private property. I'm glad she came back in. That's really important because there's not utilities overhead and underground near as much, a small percentage on private property versus the right-of-way.

Alan Clendenin

4:36:41PM Brad, I think we understand that. Councilman Maniscalco.

Guido Maniscalco

4:36:44PM Thank you very much. The concerns that I have taking this reimbursement from the tree trust fund, it just reminded me of the federal government borrowing from social security. That's a completely different thing, but it's like here we go. It sets a precedent where this fund at $6 million, whatever it is now, we start doing these kinds of things, the public, sounds an alarm. This is how it begins. But in regards to type one, trees. I looked up what is a type one tree. Someone mentioned you need so much space for an oak or elm, different types that the City of Tampa categorizes. That I saw southern magnolias and putting them on private property, I've got to bring up my grandmother because she loved magnolia trees. Magnolia trees she planted which would fit under type one, planted started in had 1973, okay, they are still around today, even in the mausoleum where I'm going to be at. Put a magnolia tree there, plant it 1985, all the trees on private property. I can -- the houses she used to live. She loved magnolia trees. They are there. They have survived everything from hurricane, helena 40 years ago to now, whereas the trees that we planted and what we have seen in the last year in the loss of our tree canopy from the two hurricanes a year ago, that doesn't make sense. If we're going to spend this kind of money, it should go, yes, it is more expensive. Type one trees that will create that shade that we want that are long lasting. We're not throwing our money away. It costs money, but in the long term, you can't put laurel oaks everywhere. I understand putting it in the right-of-way is tricky. You have such a narrow space, but, again, thinking back to my grandmother who planted on private property every opportunity. My mother will tell you. You move to a new house, you have to put a magnolia tree. Those trees exists today on private property. I'm grateful to her. But that's something we need to look at because when you look at private property, I think Councilman Carlson mentioned 2400 acres, I don't know what it was, but there is a lot of opportunity there. I'll close with this, former council member Joe chillura and all the work that he put in going back years in the original ordnance and why we were recognized as having one of the best tree canopies in the world. The hurricanes have done damage. I can show you pictures. I can talk all day long. I can show you pictures of downed trees from irma, from last year, trees you would never think would fall. But the significant decrease since I've been elected in our tree canopy. This is an emergency situation. We can talk about trees. We can talk about the loss of sea grass in the bay. Things that have happened in the last several years that we have to remember that our environment, you know, is so sacred and so important. And in this case -- you can't plant palm trees everywhere. Doesn't make sense. Can't plant type two and three trees because they are just not long lasting. Whereas these type ones are multigenerational trees that will help us preserve our reputation as having one of the best tree canopies. Getting back to the point because we'll talk about this reimbursement, it's concerning to me that it begins with this. It's like a piggy bank. Meanwhile while we don't have the funds we'll borrow from this. Are we going to replenish it? What's going to happen? Will it start dwindling, at 6 million. Start eating away at it? Going back to what I began with. The solvency or potential insolvency of social security. Federal government owes like $2.5 trillion in it, in ious. Am I going to get social security when I get to that age? Are we going to have money in that trust fund 30, 40 years from now because we'll start moving money around, just things I think about and concerns I've heard from the community.

Alan Clendenin

4:40:50PM Councilman Miranda.

Charlie Miranda

4:40:50PM Well, this is an enterprise, so they are owed the money from somewhere.

Guido Maniscalco

4:40:58PM Are they going to pay it back?

Charlie Miranda

4:41:00PM I think they have to pay it back. First of all, and I'm not here to harp on anything, but when I see five areas of the city the way they should be presented to the public, only four districts that makes up the whole city, four, five, six, and seven. This is too large of an area five here, here, here, when you go plant the trees, four, five, six, and seven and everybody knows where the districts are or just about the locations. That's number one. I'm not here to -- I'm just saying what I think. Did you do the wrong thing? No. you tried to help someone out and it didn't work. That's what happened. They went after you. Somebody had to ask. Didn't say, hey, I'll do this tomorrow when you woke out of bed. Somehow it got to your department and say I'm going to help out the city. It worked out up to this point. What happened, happened. I can't fix what happened yesterday but we can fix what happens tomorrow. Tomorrow, say, no thank you very much. It's very difficult to plant one tree, the class they want, the number one, in anybody's front or backyard because they have learned from the driveways how much they had to spend. Learned from other things, the side of the house goes up. Now you have to go somewhere else. I'm telling you what the people tell me on the street. I love trees but not in my yard. Not all tell me that but some do. You have to go to park, recreation, somewhere where there is a lot of space and plant the trees. Do we need them? Yes, sir, we do. I hate to tell you, not that you were used intentionally, but you pay out money that now you know you ain't going to do it again. That's all. You are straight down the line. In helping the city, you didn't help yourself. That's all.

Alan Clendenin

4:42:59PM Okay. My turn. It's interesting because since I've sat on this council, we did challenge whit and others about seeking other offices in the city of assisting to be able to plant in public spaces. This council did challenge -- we did have that discussion. Obviously, the Water department, and I want to reiterate something just said. Councilwoman Hurtak, you may have been out of the room. The trees planted in the program were not part of the project. This is above and beyond the project. So we're not trying to absorb a cost that the pipes program would have had, so this is above and beyond the pipes obligation. So this was -- they say they planted trees that were not part of the pipes program. They did that because they were tearing up the dirt. They had the people there, equipment there, capabilities there and they had the space. Am I summarizing that correctly?

4:44:04PM This was above and beyond the pipes program. Now, do I love the way this happened because the cost per tree and all these things? I think could have had a better business model. I think this is a good learning experience for your line of business and other lines of business, hopefully help out and plant trees in the future, being able to move past that. No, I don't like the way -- maybe would have done it differently. Also the type of trees, I don't like our types of trees. I agree with Councilwoman Hurtak. I agree with everybody else. I don't think we should be paying a penny for any of these type three trees. But you are going by a guideline already established. Same thing, we deal with this day in and day out with the City of Tampa, when people -- it's our guideline, shame on us, we have the guideline, we should fix that. I said I don't think that any of the tree program money should be spent on type three trees. I'll make that motion when we are done with this. That we're not doing that. In fact, I want to make a motion that we don't plant any bottle brushes because bottle brushes are an asthma -- or crape myrtles. I can see that we can plant crape myrtles.

Lynn Hurtak

4:45:21PM People can buy those. They are cheap.

Alan Clendenin

4:45:23PM I'm talking about even in our general doing business in the City of Tampa. We'll save that discussion for a few minutes from now. I see how we got here. I think it was good faith. I think you are operating enterprise fund, operated in good faith knowing this was above and beyond the pipes project. We are obligated, I believe, to reimburse the enterprise fund because of that.

Lynn Hurtak

4:45:52PM But we are not obligated to do it from this tree trust fund.

Alan Clendenin

4:45:56PM You want it to go from general funds?

Lynn Hurtak

4:45:59PM We have a bunch of money coming from end of fiscal year 25. If it's only $335,000. I'm saying, once we open this door, it's going to be hard to close it.

Alan Clendenin

4:46:09PM We are the ones that open and close.

Lynn Hurtak

4:46:11PM No, we did not. The administration did.

Alan Clendenin

4:46:14PM Talking about precedence, we're the ones for future issues, we are the ones that can open or close it.

Lynn Hurtak

4:46:20PM Except once all of us are gone and the next council comes and that administration says, well, the council before opened it.

Alan Clendenin

4:46:27PM Look at this like settling a lawsuit.

Lynn Hurtak

4:46:29PM I'm just saying.

Alan Clendenin

4:46:31PM Councilman Carlson.

Bill Carlson

4:46:32PM Why don't we defer this for a couple of weeks and get the chief of staff and CFO to come back with a new process on how they are going to handle it. If we have a new process that will be transparent and explain everything in advance with the contracts between the business units, then maybe we could do this as a one-off thing. Right now, it's still open. They can do whatever they want.

Lynn Hurtak

4:46:57PM That was my whole point of this. First of all, because of what I said earlier, didn't have conversations with each of us. You're going to have to do that. I want this to come back for a workshop of a solid workshop of how we are going to use this money going forward and what the parameters we want to put on.

Alan Clendenin

4:47:14PM Councilman Miranda.

Charlie Miranda

4:47:15PM Chairman, we have the right to change that legally. By passing an ordinance on how you want it done. Let's face it. We don't have to wait for all this stuff. You don't have to have a long meeting and whatever. The public is entitled to have and we have the right to pass an ordinance exactly how one department head can borrow from the other, providing it comes from the public or the council or whatever you want to do. Let's have a workshop. I don't want a ten-day workshop. I want one to last a couple of ours or so.

Alan Clendenin

4:47:45PM I already feel like I've been here ten days.

Lynn Hurtak

4:47:51PM I'm sorry to say that.

Alan Clendenin

4:47:53PM I called and got a briefing on this.

Lynn Hurtak

4:47:55PM I shouldn't have to ask. This was my motion.

Alan Clendenin

4:47:58PM Councilman Viera.

Luis Viera

4:47:59PM I pushed back. I had a meeting with this -- oh, my gosh. Sorry. Long day. Not adoption, this group I was supposed to meet with at 4:30, I pushed it back to 5:00. I have to go to the abe brown gala after. I have to leave in 12 minutes.

Charlie Miranda

4:48:20PM That happens to people running for office.

Alan Clendenin

4:48:23PM Is there any sentiment of passing 25 today? No, okay. It's not going to pass today. We'll have to continue this item. Get a motion to continue item 25 to --

Lynn Hurtak

4:48:39PM Here is the thing. I agree with Councilman Carlson. Maybe if we can kind of find another way to come back, but I do believe that overall we even mentioned it today, a bunch of different things that we think should be different. The fact that all trees should be under one umbrella, one similar logo, one similar design, and then listening, and we need to put parameters on how we want to spend -- on how we want to do that. I think it is a longer conversation than we have time for today. I still believe a workshop is the correct place to do that because it would give these departments time to meet up with each of us to meet with the community. I think there needs to be public outreach about this, because trees are a very passionate issue for many, many people. I would like this for the April 23rd workshop of 2026, but knowing that we have the money that we need to deal with, I do believe that should come up as a conversation during our budget resolution, which is actually one of my motions tonight for actually -- actually, it is not. We have staff coming to us on December 18 to see what we have left in the fiscal year '25 funds. I believe we should look there for it.

Alan Clendenin

4:50:00PM You want a motion to continue this to the December meeting?

Lynn Hurtak

4:50:03PM Yes. December 18.

Alan Clendenin

4:50:05PM Director Wynn.

Ocea Wynn

4:50:06PM Ocea Wynn, administrator of neighborhood and community affairs. I want to let you know one of the things I did not communicate is that we will be having a tree town hall in January. Probably the second week in January. I think around the 18th to get all of the community people who are interested, members who are interested in trees, so that we can hear their concerns and we could have a path forward.

Lynn Hurtak

4:50:32PM That's great. If you could send it to all of our offices so we can get it on our calendars.

Ocea Wynn

4:50:40PM I take responsibility for not sharing that powerpoint presentation with all the City Council members.

Lynn Hurtak

4:50:47PM That's fine.

Alan Clendenin

4:50:48PM Administrator Wynn, would you propose that we wait for that? Rory, the implications, if we continue this to the December meeting, the financial implications, do you have any issue with that? As long as we were to be reimbursed for it, I think that would be completely fine.

4:51:15PM Councilwoman Hurtak, would you restate the motion?

Lynn Hurtak

4:51:17PM My motion is to develop a workshop to discuss trees on April 23rd, 2026. And then to -- I can come back with a more specific motion. I can work with you all, with Ocea's department on a more specific motion about trees, and then everybody else can reach out as well. Maybe what might be the better thing is to reach out to all the members, kind of have a quick discussion about it. And then we can kind of craft the workshop from there.

Alan Clendenin

4:51:57PM I'm not going to make a motion about my bottle brushes. We'll wait for all this to happen.

Lynn Hurtak

4:52:03PM Yes.

Alan Clendenin

4:52:04PM Motion from Councilwoman Hurtak about the workshop. A second from Councilman Maniscalco. All in favor, aye. Aye. Opposed? Ayes have it.

Lynn Hurtak

4:52:11PM The second motion would be to bring back this reimbursement resolution for December 18, 2025.

Alan Clendenin

4:52:21PM Motion to continue item 25.

Lynn Hurtak

4:52:23PM Sorry. A motion to continue item 25 to December 18, 2025.

Alan Clendenin

4:52:32PM Mr. Shelby Has input.

Lynn Hurtak

4:52:35PM He's not happy.

Martin Shelby

4:52:37PM I'm not happy.

Alan Clendenin

4:52:38PM You don't have Mike Perry's face.

Martin Shelby

4:52:40PM No, I don't. I'm not talking about that acronym, which I don't even remember what it means. Martin Shelby, City Council attorney. With regard to number 63, I've been listening to council's discussion. You have a very strong consensus. If you continue this, it's going to come back --

Lynn Hurtak

4:52:59PM This is 25.

Alan Clendenin

4:53:00PM 63 was resolved with the workshop. 25 is for the resolution.

Martin Shelby

4:53:07PM This is prior to. Thank you for that clarification. I want to be clear then. 25 is the resolution.

Alan Clendenin

4:53:13PM Continued to December. 63 we resolved by having the workshop in April.

Martin Shelby

4:53:20PM That's fine. I want to be clear for that. That's with regard to number 63.

Alan Clendenin

4:53:26PM The workshop.

Martin Shelby

4:53:27PM The workshop. With regard to number 25, what is the consensus of council as to whether today you would approve item --

Lynn Hurtak

4:53:36PM We already answered that.

Martin Shelby

4:53:37PM What is the answer to that?

Lynn Hurtak

4:53:39PM No.

Martin Shelby

4:53:40PM Why are you continuing it?

Lynn Hurtak

4:53:43PM Because, maybe you weren't here for this. We were talking about we're getting a reimbursement resolution. That's one of my motions today, to get the reimbursement resolution or to find out how much money is left in the budget for FY '25. That's coming on December 18.

Martin Shelby

4:53:58PM Then this resolution does not talk about another source of money for that particular item.

Alan Clendenin

4:54:06PM We'll handle this in December. We're good.

Martin Shelby

4:54:09PM As long as your minutes would somehow be clear that this resolution --

Lynn Hurtak

4:54:15PM How about this. Item 25 is being continued to December 18 with the idea that we will find a different funding stream for it. Is that better?

Guido Maniscalco

4:54:26PM Second.

Alan Clendenin

4:54:28PM Maybe it's still going back to the same thing.

Bill Carlson

4:54:33PM Discuss alternative funding sources.

Martin Shelby

4:54:38PM Let me share my concern for whatever it is worth. If council is not going to pass this resolution, you can make a resolution denying that so that it is quite clear for the record and then make a follow-up motion.

Alan Clendenin

4:54:49PM Now you are getting --

Lynn Hurtak

4:54:50PM You're getting too lawyerly.

Alan Clendenin

4:54:55PM We have a motion from Councilwoman Hurtak. We have a second from Councilman Maniscalco. Continue item 25.

Charlie Miranda

4:55:02PM Discussion.

Alan Clendenin

4:55:02PM Councilman Miranda.

Charlie Miranda

4:55:03PM I have to know a little bit more because what I'm hearing now is that this money will come from somewhere other than the tree fund.

Alan Clendenin

4:55:11PM Not necessarily.

Guido Maniscalco

4:55:14PM Alternative sources.

Charlie Miranda

4:55:15PM Well, alternative sources, exactly what I'm saying then, it is a different source.

Lynn Hurtak

4:55:19PM We don't know what it is because we don't know how much money is left.

Charlie Miranda

4:55:22PM If I have seven kids and borrow from one pension, I want that one of the seven to pay it back for the rest of the kids.

Alan Clendenin

4:55:31PM That is the conversation to have in December.

Charlie Miranda

4:55:34PM I'll listen to that and be hard pressed for me to vote for some amount of money going to another department to take away from them because somebody did a favor.

Alan Clendenin

4:55:44PM We can have that conversation in December. Mike Perry, do you have something that you would like to add to the conversation?

Lynn Hurtak

4:55:51PM I apologize, but the motion is coming.

Alan Clendenin

4:55:54PM Mr. Perry, can you hear us?

Lynn Hurtak

4:56:06PM We cannot hear you.

Alan Clendenin

4:56:08PM Motion from Councilwoman Hurtak. We have a second from Councilman Maniscalco. Mr. Carlson.

Bill Carlson

4:56:15PM I wonder as an amendment or separate motion we could add to ask the chief of staff and CFO to also propose a separate motion.

Alan Clendenin

4:56:25PM We have a motion from Councilwoman Hurtak. A second from Councilman Maniscalco. All those in favor aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. Councilman Carlson, you are recognized for a motion.

Bill Carlson

4:56:34PM I would like to make a motion --

Alan Clendenin

4:56:40PM Too late.

Bill Carlson

4:56:41PM Motion to put an adjacent item to that to ask the chief of staff and CFO to propose a process for which enterprise funds and departments can in effect have outsource agreements with each other. And in this case, do one after the fact. There should have been some agreement before this. It's not just about money, it's about the intent.

Alan Clendenin

4:57:10PM Put a 30 second pause on that because that is new business which we'll go into just now. That would be a good new business motion.

Charlie Miranda

4:57:18PM One other thing, these funds that we're talking about, these enterprise funds are the ones that go to the market and borrow millions and millions of dollars. I certainly wouldn't want to do anything to do anything to hurt their credibility of having a fantastic loan operation in the way they borrow money and pay it back at a very low rate. Only five in the country that have a triple rate and they are one of them.

Alan Clendenin

4:57:44PM I would like you to bring that conversation to the December meeting.

Charlie Miranda

4:57:47PM Thank you.

Alan Clendenin

4:57:49PM Okay. That concludes -- you guys understand where we are?

4:57:58PM Yes, Mr. Johnson.

Evan Johnson

4:57:59PM Evan Johnson, City Planning. Item 63 included a presentation that had been combined at a previous meeting, included a presentation regarding the post-storm canopy analysis, which Dr. Landry was here from the University of South Florida to give. It has been a spirited discussion as it always is with trees. But I did want to mention that he is here and does have a presentation. The good news is there's actually some good news. But maybe we should have led with the good news from the post-storm analysis.

Alan Clendenin

4:58:36PM How long is your presentation?

Charlie Miranda

4:58:43PM I'll go to midnight. Let's go.

Bill Carlson

4:58:48PM Can I set this up real fast?

Alan Clendenin

4:58:50PM I'll be honest with you, I'd prefer the conversation -- do you live locally? I would have preferred to not be part of this agenda item at all. I don't know who did that. But that was a bad idea. In fact, I'm happy to meet with you individually and I have in the past.

4:59:19PM Can you facilitate that? I would greatly appreciate that because you can see we are all at our wit's end especially on this item.

4:59:31PM I would love that and a light day.

Guido Maniscalco

4:59:33PM I'm available anytime after --

Alan Clendenin

4:59:35PM Mr. Johnson, if you can facilitate that and coordinate with my office to get it on the schedule.

Evan Johnson

4:59:40PM You want individual briefings or --

Alan Clendenin

4:59:43PM Talk off-line.

Bill Carlson

4:59:44PM The public I think wants to see it.

Alan Clendenin

4:59:47PM That concludes today's agenda items. We'll go into new business. Councilman Carlson, would you please make your motion now?

Bill Carlson

4:59:53PM Yeah, as to this item on the tree canopy, I want to thank Ms. Wynn and staff for moving ahead with this. After the storms last year, we on City Council made a request. The administration didn't necessarily have to do this and thank you to the professors and everyone who was involved in it because it has really important information in it that everybody can see. We needed to do a bench mark of how much damage was done by the storms so that we could separate that from development. It's a really important document. It's online if anybody wants to see it and come back and present it. So I'd like to make a motion to ask the CFO and chief of staff to return on December 18 adjacent to the tree item to discuss how they can formalize agreements and proposals between departments to make policy and budget decisions prior to doing any kind of work. And then to also create one for this instance to maybe back date it.

Alan Clendenin

5:01:06PM We have a motion from Councilman Carlson. A second from councilman -- Councilwoman Hurtak. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed? Ayes have it unanimously. Thank you.

Bill Carlson

5:01:15PM I have one more. Except for Councilwoman Young, the rest of would you know. When I ask for information internally I officially go through the public records, govqa so my request will be transparent. The city charges me for those. If it's $40, I'll pay it myself. Every now and then there is one for 1800 or 2,000 dollars. In the past, you all know that I also don't use my expense budget at the city, at City Council. I would like to make, instead of having you -- asking you all each time, I would like to make a motion to ask City Council to approve having the transfer as needed, my expense budget to pay the public records department if requested.

Charlie Miranda

5:02:06PM Just for the record, I have never used the expense budget in 31 years.

Bill Carlson

5:02:12PM The only time I have used it is for this.

Lynn Hurtak

5:02:18PM They have to give you the information if you are a council member. So I kind of think that's not a good use of money. Why can't you come here and ask or go ask.

Bill Carlson

5:02:27PM It was kind of the same thing we were talking about. If you are taking a service, do we pay for it or not. But I've paid thousands of dollars of my own money for these. If we can make a blanket statement or ordinance request through govqa and not get charged, that would be better. But in this case, I would rather not pay $2,000 of my own money.

Alan Clendenin

5:02:51PM I don't know. I don't know if I'm comfortable with that.

Lynn Hurtak

5:02:56PM I really think you should ask for it from here if you really need it. Just making a motion and we'll approve you getting the information. Honestly, I feel like that's part of our job. It's not being -- we don't need to pay for it. This is what we're doing. We should have access to every single piece of information that we want.

Alan Clendenin

5:03:17PM It's also transparency. If we authorize spending the taxpayer money on items requesting that we don't know what the items are.

Bill Carlson

5:03:28PM Just like Councilman Miranda, I don't spend mine on anything else.

Alan Clendenin

5:03:35PM I understand that. Say you spend a dollar on -- I don't know what items you're requesting --

Bill Carlson

5:03:43PM I believe that we should use govqa so it is transparent. I don't think everything requires -- every request we make should come before council. Another way of doing it is to make a motion to create an ordinance or something that says that City Council members who request on govqa would not be charged.

Alan Clendenin

5:04:02PM I'm more agreeable with ask for staff to report on that ordinance. You need to make a motion to have staff come before council to propose an ordinance.

Bill Carlson

5:04:14PM I would like to make a motion to ask staff to come back to council to discuss whether we should create a policy to waive public records fees for City Council members.

Lynn Hurtak

5:04:31PM Second.

Alan Clendenin

5:04:32PM We have a motion from Councilman Carlson.

Bill Carlson

5:04:34PM I didn't pick a date because I don't know when it is. Do you guys know when we can go on?

Alan Clendenin

5:04:41PM Anything after January seems to be open for everything. I don't think we're loaded up anywhere for January.

Bill Carlson

5:04:48PM January 8?

Lynn Hurtak

5:04:49PM Sure. Second. January 8 it is.

Alan Clendenin

5:04:55PM Holidays, staff are not going to be working. You may want to push to February.

Bill Carlson

5:04:59PM January 22 doesn't have anything on it.

Alan Clendenin

5:05:02PM January 22. Motion from Councilman Carlson for January 22. Second from Councilwoman Hurtak. All in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. Anything else, sir?

Bill Carlson

5:05:11PM No thank you.

Alan Clendenin

5:05:13PM Councilwoman Young, do you have any new business?

Naya Young

5:05:17PM No new business.

Alan Clendenin

5:05:19PM Councilwoman Hurtak.

Lynn Hurtak

5:05:21PM Thank you. So we talked about having a workshop to talk about what we want for the budget and how we want it to look. Are you working on that?

Alan Clendenin

5:05:32PM I think we are.

Lynn Hurtak

5:05:34PM Because one of the things that Ms. Kopesky Mentioned today was about her information about the wage adjustment. I really want to talk about how we can get some type of reporting for that during the year so we know what some of those wage adjustments are as they are occurring. But I don't want to make a motion if we already have a workshop on it. I'll just save it for that.

Alan Clendenin

5:05:59PM Sam, make sure you talk to me about the workshop for prepping for the budget.

Lynn Hurtak

5:06:06PM Then I'll just -- I'll talk to sam. I'll hand sam my recommendation then. Council member Hurtak -- wow. Wow. That is me.

Alan Clendenin

5:06:21PM Did you say councilman?

Lynn Hurtak

5:06:23PM Council member Carlson, I'm the second on this motion, made a motion about scheduling a discussion with John Bennett chief of staff, Ms. Kopesky and other staff on December 4 on whether or not stormwater monies or staff should be used on parades or special events. I have talked to Ms. Kopesky about amending it to be a little more specific. Just listen to it and see what you think. I already have it written down. Don't worry. If you like it we can amend it. After rereading it I would like to suggest this be amended to staff to summarize the costs for each of the following events in the last fiscal period and present that data to council on December 4. This information should include both internal and external activities and the related costs of santa fest, reliaquest bowl, each gasparilla event, MLK parade, St. Patrick's Day parade and Tampa pride and staff to explain how internal staff time is tracked when they are supporting an event versus performing their primary work function, staff to be prepared to speak on what other options are available to avoid the use of internal staff with the exception of off-duty and what the estimated cost of these options are.

Alan Clendenin

5:07:37PM Councilman Miranda.

Charlie Miranda

5:07:39PM I'm not against that, but when you have strictly a debt, what you're asking for is a cost to the taxpayers, then you have to include what the taxpayers are getting for the amount of coffee, drinks, alcohol, whatever they buy and sell and how much percent do we get back -- equal equation.

Lynn Hurtak

5:07:59PM I'm trying to find out where staff time is used.

Charlie Miranda

5:08:02PM I understand. We don't know the other side.

Bill Carlson

5:08:05PM Could we put that one as a separate one ahead of mine? Mine was really about whether we could ban the use or limit the use of stormwater money or enterprise money to be used on parades.

Lynn Hurtak

5:08:18PM Agreed. To me this is tangential to have the money. Yes, I will make this a separate motion. Do I have to read it again?

Alan Clendenin

5:08:29PM My concern is the date. I don't think it gives people -- that is a lot of information and that will require a lot of staff power.

Lynn Hurtak

5:08:36PM He has the motion coming December 4. I have a feeling we'll end up with these questions of how is the -- like, how are we allocating --

Alan Clendenin

5:08:45PM No way they can get all that information.

Lynn Hurtak

5:08:47PM They have to. They have to be able to monetize that.

Alan Clendenin

5:08:50PM Now and then, stop everything and not do anything else between now and then?

Lynn Hurtak

5:08:55PM They should already have this information. It's part of auditing.

Alan Clendenin

5:08:59PM Do they have the information?

Lynn Hurtak

5:09:01PM I'll ask Ms. Kopesky to work on it. How about this? I motion to have Ms. Kopesky work on summarizing the cost of events with the finance department. I will let you know at a future meeting whether or not it is successful or she can just e-mail it to everybody.

Alan Clendenin

5:09:23PM We have a motion from Councilwoman Hurtak. Is there a second?

Bill Carlson

5:09:27PM Second.

Alan Clendenin

5:09:27PM Second from Councilman Carlson. Congratulations. This is what you're doing over thanksgiving. We have a motion and second. All in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have it.

Lynn Hurtak

5:09:41PM That is it. Thank you.

Alan Clendenin

5:09:44PM Okay. Mr. Maniscalco.

Guido Maniscalco

5:09:45PM Nothing. Thank you.

Alan Clendenin

5:09:46PM Councilman Miranda?

Charlie Miranda

5:09:50PM Receive and file.

Alan Clendenin

5:09:52PM Oh, Mr. Shelby, he has an announcement.

Martin Shelby

5:09:56PM I have an announcement, council. A reminder to you, please, that Monday, this coming Monday, from 1 p.m. till probably about 4, earlier if we can do it, you have set a special called workshop. The purpose of this special called workshop is to discuss the framework for a resolution giving me direction to return to City Council with a draft that established the goals and objectives for the City of Tampa Charter Review Advisory Commission and recommending amendments to the city charter. And guidelines for membership and the conduct of its meetings including a tentative timeline with the steps necessary for charter amendment language for voter consideration on the March 2nd, 2027 municipal election ballot. So, please, again, it is in the sister cities room down on the first floor. It is Monday. It begins at 1:00 in the afternoon.

Alan Clendenin

5:10:55PM Thank you for the reminder. Ms. Kopesky, you wanted to say something? Briefly, I was speaking with Michael Perry he reminded me that the date, December 18 when you're asking to have the item come back regarding consideration of excess funds that may or may not be able to fund the Water department is after the 60-day period of making adjustments to '25. So the reso being proposed is a '25 resolution that will naturally not be active any more after the 60 day point.

Lynn Hurtak

5:11:30PM Yes. But generally we then look at the extra money and then try to decide what we want to do with it.

Hagar Kopesky

5:11:39PM What would need to happen, there would need to be a new resolution as a '26 item.

Lynn Hurtak

5:11:45PM Absolutely. We already talked about because we wouldn't be pulling it from this source. We would have to rewrite it anyway.

Alan Clendenin

5:11:52PM That's if we do it that way. Councilman Carlson.

Bill Carlson

5:11:56PM Just in preparation for the meeting, the charter meeting, in the instructions we got when on the Charter Review Commission, instead of recommending charter changes, there were a series of questions, like should we this or should we that. I have written out a bunch of questions. So that you all have time to consider them, I'll get Andrew to e-mail them to all of you.

Alan Clendenin

5:12:21PM Do not respond to the e-mail.

Bill Carlson

5:12:23PM Don't respond to me. That way you can think about them. Keep in mind, it's not a recommendation for a charter amendment. All we're doing is asking the question, how do we deal with this or should we. And then they will discuss it and decide if they want to come back to us with it.

Martin Shelby

5:12:37PM I'm sorry. If I understand correctly you will be sending out potential questions to be discussed at Monday's work session so they'll have advanced notice.

Bill Carlson

5:12:48PM Not questions to be answered on Monday. These are recommended questions that would go into the instructions. Remember the last time, the City Council gave the Charter Review Commission questions to consider. So it's not questions for us to answer. It's questions for the Charter Review Commission.

Martin Shelby

5:13:01PM This council at the workshop would have to tell me whether you want those questions in the resolution.

Bill Carlson

5:13:08PM If you don't like the questions, you can exit out and say we don't want it. That's what I'm going to propose.

Alan Clendenin

5:13:13PM I have a motion to receive and file from Councilman Miranda. Second from Councilwoman Hurtak. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? The ayes have it. [ sounding gavel ] we are adjourned. Disclaimer: this file represents an unedited version of realtime captioning which should neither be relied upon for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim transcript. Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the proceedings may need to hire a court reporter. ▶ meeting video the information contained in these pages represents an unedited version of realtime captioning which should neither be relied upon for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim transcript. Persons requiring a verbatim transcript may need to hire a court reporter. © - City of Tampa (813) 274-8211