City Council — December 4, 2025 FINAL

Alan Clendenin

9:02:57AM Good morning, everybody. Welcome to Tampa City Council. I'd like to call this meeting to order. We have invocation from Charlie Miranda.

Charlie Miranda

9:03:09AM Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman, it is my pleasure this morning to introduce elder larry b. Hordge, senior, born and raised in Tampa, Florida. His deep commitment to faith, service, and community from an early age. His parents, l.b. And maggie hordge, founded the mount vernon primitive baptist church in West Tampa, instilling in him a lifelong dedication to ministry. Graduate of Howard w. Blake High School, he earned a music and business scholarship, university of a and m, Florida a and m university, and later obtained a bachelor of science degree in accounting. He went to serve 27 years with the st. pete Police Department, retiring as a patrol sergeant. He played a key role in development of community policing initiative under police chief goliath Davis. Since his retirement, elder hordge has continued his commitment to mentoring and working with students. As pastor of mount vernon primitive baptist church and chaplain of the Tampa Police Department, he remains dedicated to guiding and uplifting his community. He and his wife patricia, his high school sweetheart, share a beautiful legacy with six children and nine grandchildren. Pastor. Thank you very much for being with us. We appreciate everything you've done in the past for everyone in this area. Let us bow our heads in prayer. God of abraham, isaac, Jacob, we thank you for this day. We thank you for your loving kindness and your tender mercies. Father, I pray that you bless this council meeting. I pray that you bless us all, that we be part of the solution and not part of the problem. Now, lord, we thank you for our government, our country and all those who you have allowed to be in their current positions. We acknowledge that you know all, you see all, and you hear all. I pray that your perfect will be done on this earth as your will is being done in heaven. Thy is the kingdom, power and glory forever. In Jesus name we pray and in Jesus name we say thank you. Let us all say amen.

Alan Clendenin

9:05:25AM Council member Miranda, will you lead us in the pledge? [Pledge of allegiance]

9:05:41AM Thank you. Clerk, can we have roll call, please?

Charlie Miranda

9:05:46AM Here.

Guido Maniscalco

9:05:47AM Here.

Lynn Hurtak

9:05:47AM Here.

Naya Young

9:05:48AM Here.

Luis Viera

9:05:49AM Here.

Bill Carlson

9:05:50AM Here.

Alan Clendenin

9:05:51AM Here.

The clerk

9:05:52AM We have a physical quorum.

Alan Clendenin

9:05:55AM Motion to adopt the minutes of November 20, 2025. Motion from Maniscalco. Second from Miranda. All in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. Thank you. Agenda review. Let's start off, 2:30 today, I have a time certain. We'll have Kenneth tinkler, a potential attorney for our charter --

Lynn Hurtak

9:06:14AM So moved.

Alan Clendenin

9:06:15AM Motion from Councilwoman Hurtak. Second from Councilman Maniscalco. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Ayes have it, thank you. I issued a memo yesterday on item 32 to pull for discussion. Getting subsequent information yesterday, I no longer need to pull that for discussion, fyi.

Lynn Hurtak

9:06:34AM Do you want to share what the information was?

Alan Clendenin

9:06:36AM I was concerned mostly -- several concerns. One of the concerns was I had been initially told that the project was only one or two dwelling units. It ends up being six, which I think is adequate density for the location. I was more satisfied with that. At that location, I thought two was not enough. Let's go through the agenda. 54 was misnoticed. We need a motion to reschedule on January 22, 2026. Motion from Councilman Maniscalco. Second from Councilman Miranda. All those in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have it.

Lynn Hurtak

9:07:22AM We have a walk-on resolution. Where would you like to put that, Mr. Shelby?

Martin Shelby

9:07:26AM It could either go after your appointments for the boards or under unfinished business.

Lynn Hurtak

9:07:32AM After appointments to the boards.

Alan Clendenin

9:07:36AM Motion from Councilwoman Hurtak. Second from Councilman Maniscalco. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Ayes have it.

Lynn Hurtak

9:07:41AM I have something else. We got several e-mails yesterday about allowing public comment after the staff presentation on item 64. That is using stormwater money for parades or special events. I would like to make a motion to waive our rules and allow the public to speak after that, because we've gotten tons of e-mail. I really believe, I'm sorry, but I think this is important and people want to talk about it. That's my motion.

Alan Clendenin

9:08:12AM We have a motion from Councilwoman Hurtak. A second from Councilman Carlson. It is important, but we do have an opportunity for public comment built into our system.

Lynn Hurtak

9:08:20AM Except the problem is that there was no paper work, there was no presentation in onbase, so they don't know what will be said.

Bill Carlson

9:08:31AM Can I offer an amendment? I was going to make a motion on that, too. I would like to propose an amendment that we put it after ceremonial, that way the people here don't have to wait all day and then don't have to speak twice. Anybody who wants to speak on that, knows right after ceremonial -- then they only have to speak once.

Lynn Hurtak

9:08:51AM I'll accept that.

Alan Clendenin

9:08:52AM I think it is a fair compromise. We have a motion to move item 64 to after ceremonial.

Bill Carlson

9:08:59AM And allow public comment.

Alan Clendenin

9:09:06AM Is that in addition to normal public comment?

Bill Carlson

9:09:10AM I think what we should say to folks, if you want to comment on that since we moved it down, you don't have to wait all day, please comment on that after. We should give them a choice of either-or.

Alan Clendenin

9:09:20AM Either-or, I agree.

Lynn Hurtak

9:09:22AM Either comment on 64 during 64, and then you can comment again if you want to comment on the rest -- this is only on 64. Again, if we had a presentation already, all we have is a memo. But this is supposed to be a council and administration conversation. And I think the public needs to be able to speak after the conversation.

Bill Carlson

9:09:43AM What I'm suggesting, if someone has something else to talk about in public comment, do that before and then talk about 64 after. If they need to leave early, they can speak about 64 in public comment and then not speak later. But they wouldn't speak about 64 twice.

Alan Clendenin

9:09:58AM Councilman Miranda first and then Councilman Viera.

Charlie Miranda

9:10:02AM Couple of comments, why don't we include 64 and the public comment so it can be handled in the morning and we can do that.

Alan Clendenin

9:10:09AM I would agree to that.

Lynn Hurtak

9:10:13AM People who feel strongly on 64.

Alan Clendenin

9:10:16AM Councilman Viera.

Luis Viera

9:10:17AM Just as a compromise so we can move forward, why don't we limit comment to 64 to no longer than 15 minutes.

Lynn Hurtak

9:10:29AM Two minutes a person?

Luis Viera

9:10:31AM However many are here. In other words, if people are here and they are going to comment during general public comment, have at it, this land is your land. But if you want to do it specifically for that, that will be limited to 15 minutes as a group. If there are 8 people, do the math. If there are five people, then they can have three minutes each.

Alan Clendenin

9:10:49AM We have a motion to amend the motion to limit the public comment for item 64, so we will hear 64 after ceremonial. We will limit public comment on 64 to 15 minutes. Total.

Bill Carlson

9:11:04AM We're voting on the amendment to limit to 15 first.

Lynn Hurtak

9:11:06AM I'll second that amendment.

Alan Clendenin

9:11:08AM Motion from Councilman Viera. Second from Councilwoman Hurtak. All those in favor aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. A motion to move 64 with that amendment to after the ceremonial. Motion from Councilman Maniscalco, second from Councilman Miranda. All those in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. 57, we don't have administrative update but John Bennett is going to give us a little update. John, do you want to do it now? Knock it out real quick. Update on the social action fund.

John Bennett

9:11:43AM John Bennett, chief of staff. Good morning to council and the public. Council's pleasure on that. This is not an agenda item, but this week, took the liberty to send council a memo about the social action in arts funds. As you recall going into the fiscal year budget adoption, there was a big discussion around this. I think council has a workshop on it as we turn the corner of the calendar year. But we know a lot of people are e-mailing council, they are e-mailing our offices. We have worked down the 87 requests for $5.4 million through the strategic lens that council had asked for trying to get portfolio adoption through having all hands meeting around this. We think we are on a good trajectory. We had some formal drafted communication from the Legal Department to send out to the prospects that have asked for this fund. We don't have dedicated staff, as I said in the memo, but everybody is working hard on it. Just know that the ones that are making the strategic adoption have all been ones that council has also recommended. We're in a good spot. I think we're going to move quickly now that we've gotten through this analysis phase. And I think it will help when we get to the workshop and make sure that all the folks that contribute to the city's benefit in this space of strategic support will get their funds. Just some feedback on that. Feel free to reach out to our office on anything specific as I said in the memo. Again, we're working hard behind the scenes to get this moving.

Alan Clendenin

9:13:14AM Thank you. Appreciate IT. Staff reports. 58 and 59 second reading. I don't think we need staff on that, is that correct? No staff on 58 and 59. Item 60 we need to continue to December 18.

Lynn Hurtak

9:13:29AM 60 and 61. I just want to say because I know there are actually a couple of people I saw in the lobby who want to speak on this today, that that is fine. We're just moving it to December 18 because staff told us they needed to finish tying it up. They were able to move the water and paving work to another contract. So we're just kind of tying up the loose ends. I wanted to make sure folks knew about that.

Alan Clendenin

9:13:55AM Motion please?

Guido Maniscalco

9:13:58AM Move to December 18, 2025 under staff reports.

Alan Clendenin

9:14:01AM Motion from Councilman Maniscalco. Second from Councilman Miranda. Councilman Carlson.

Bill Carlson

9:14:07AM I was trying to pull up the e-mail real fast. I thought that they had asked to take it off the agenda and then they would come back with --

Alan Clendenin

9:14:16AM No, that was a continuation.

Lynn Hurtak

9:14:20AM It's a continuation because what they are doing, we asked them to take the water portion and the paving out of the South Howard project and tie it to another project. And they have been able to do that.

Bill Carlson

9:14:29AM Yeah, the memo I got from rory said that they had done that, and it was under another contract.

Lynn Hurtak

9:14:36AM Yes. It's just not -- the ts and is haven't been finished. Ts haven't been crossed and is dotted. There is Mr. Baird.

Alan Clendenin

9:14:47AM Brad, I think we're fine. Brad, we're okay.

Brad Baird

9:14:50AM Good morning, City Council. Brad Baird, deputy administrator of --

Alan Clendenin

9:14:56AM Brad. It's okay. We're good. We have a motion and a second to continue this item. All those in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. Thank you. Thank you, brad. We'll probably be hearing from you later.

Bill Carlson

9:15:08AM The memo I got from rory on December 2nd asked to withdraw these two. This specifically said that. Maybe something else came in after that that I didn't see it.

Brad Baird

9:15:18AM These two items can be removed.

Lynn Hurtak

9:15:22AM Are they being moved or removed?

Brad Baird

9:15:26AM Removed.

Martin Shelby

9:15:31AM City Council Attorney. This is a question for Mr. Baird. They are being replaced with something else that you're --

Alan Clendenin

9:15:37AM But a place holder. I thought we would continue to have a place holder on the agenda.

Bill Carlson

9:15:43AM Can you give rory 30 seconds to explain?

Alan Clendenin

9:15:46AM Go ahead, brad, rory.

Brad Baird

9:15:49AM I'll go ahead. We were asked by City Council to try our best to move it, decouple this work from the South Howard project and put it under a different contract. We happened to have a water contract that has the same team, same contractor, same design team that we are able to move this work to. And the Legal Department opined that it is -- legally we can do that. So I only held it as a placeholder in case City Council didn't agree with that. But if City Council agrees that this is appropriate, then we can remove these two items from the agenda.

Bill Carlson

9:16:44AM By moving it to the other contract, it doesn't need City Council approval anymore, is that correct?

Alan Clendenin

9:16:52AM Let me interject here. I'm comfortable with what we have just done already. The council action to continue this item to October 23rd because we haven't taken action -- I'm sorry, December 18.

Bill Carlson

9:17:04AM It's a different item.

Alan Clendenin

9:17:07AM Hold on. Stop.

Brad Baird

9:17:09AM It is a different item. We will have a new GMP --

Alan Clendenin

9:17:13AM Brad, brad.

Martin Shelby

9:17:15AM Understanding what Mr. Baird said, it's my concern that what is going to be uploaded is not going to be related to what is listed on the agenda. It's going to cause confusion. The question for Mr. Baird, Mr. Baird, December 18 means it's right around the corner. Will you have the information uploaded for the council and the public by the time of the release of the draft agenda for the 18th?

Brad Baird

9:17:38AM Yes. Yes.

Bill Carlson

9:17:40AM We remove this and he puts a new item on the 18th.

Martin Shelby

9:17:43AM That's right. Consistent with what your direction it and the background will be consistent with what the item on the agenda is.

Alan Clendenin

9:17:51AM Again, brad, you understand, council, we're not taking a vote on what you're asking for until the 18th. So you don't know what the outcome of that is until that actually occurs.

Brad Baird

9:18:02AM Yeah, that's why I kept it as a backstop.

Alan Clendenin

9:18:05AM That's why I'm confused about why we're talking about it now. I thought we wanted to continue this as a backup until we have the other item placed on the agenda. That is the discussion I had had.

Martin Shelby

9:18:15AM The other choice would be to put the two items on the agenda in addition to these items and put all the new backup with those two items with a memo saying that these items are superseded or should be removed.

Lynn Hurtak

9:18:31AM I think we need to make sure we have the word South Howard flood relief somewhere in it. I think we should continue this.

Alan Clendenin

9:18:37AM I am still satisfied with what we've done.

Bill Carlson

9:18:41AM The whole purpose in trying to get it separated so it is not part of the South Howard project.

Alan Clendenin

9:18:48AM I understand.

Bill Carlson

9:18:48AM If it carries on and it has South Howard in it, we might get 200 protestors here. Why would we go through that when it's already separated?

Alan Clendenin

9:18:57AM Councilwoman Hurtak.

Lynn Hurtak

9:18:58AM The point being so people know this is the replacement for the South Howard. If they don't see that, they won't know that.

Bill Carlson

9:19:05AM If we take it off the agenda, it's not part of the South Howard project anymore.

Alan Clendenin

9:19:10AM That's digging up South Howard. Again, unless somebody objects, I am comfortable with the plan of continuing these items, as council has already voted on, to continue the items, with the understanding that brad will submit the information for the other items. And if those items go, we will have those items removed from that agenda on that day. Basically no substitute. I think for communication purpose, I agree with Councilwoman Hurtak and I think the council's action on this is appropriate. I don't have any problem with that.

Bill Carlson

9:19:45AM Then let's vote and I'll vote no.

Alan Clendenin

9:19:47AM We already did.

Bill Carlson

9:19:50AM Did we vote? Because I will vote no on that.

Martin Shelby

9:19:53AM Do you want a motion to reconsider then?

Alan Clendenin

9:19:55AM Since you voted in affirmative, motion to reconsider.

Bill Carlson

9:19:59AM Yes.

Alan Clendenin

9:20:00AM We have a motion from Councilman Carlson, second from Councilman Viera to reconsider the vote on item 60 and 61. All in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have it.

Martin Shelby

9:20:11AM Now you are back to where you were.

Alan Clendenin

9:20:13AM Can I get a motion to continue the items? Councilwoman Hurtak -- motion from Councilwoman Hurtak. Second from Councilman Viera. Roll call vote, please.

Martin Shelby

9:20:20AM If you can, before that, with the understanding that in addition to that, there will be additional items placed on the agenda separately.

Lynn Hurtak

9:20:28AM I accept your amendment.

Alan Clendenin

9:20:35AM He can't make amendments. Motion from Councilwoman Hurtak to amend the motion to include the understanding that the staff will include the substitute motions for the water project. Is there a second? Second from Councilman Viera. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Ayes have -- Councilman Carlson voting in the negative. Roll call vote on the continuation of 60 and 61, please. We did a motion for the amendment. Now we have the motion on the --

Guido Maniscalco

9:21:11AM This is for the continuance, yes.

Lynn Hurtak

9:21:14AM Yes.

Naya Young

9:21:14AM Yes.

Luis Viera

9:21:15AM Yes.

Bill Carlson

9:21:17AM No.

Charlie Miranda

9:21:19AM Yes.

Alan Clendenin

9:21:20AM Yes.

The clerk

9:21:21AM Motion carried with Carlson voting no.

Alan Clendenin

9:21:23AM Thank you. 62, we have a memo in lieu of staff appearance. Everybody good with that? No staff on 62. 63, staff will be present for 63. 64, we have two memos from Chief Bennett. We'll have staff on that. Yes, staff for that. 65.

Guido Maniscalco

9:21:48AM Motion to continue to December 18.

Alan Clendenin

9:21:50AM Motion from Councilman Maniscalco. Second from Councilwoman Young. All in favor, aye. Ayes have it.

Naya Young

9:21:58AM I want to add the reason why we're continuing it is because we want to have the listening session first and it was placed on onbase. There is a reason why.

Lynn Hurtak

9:22:11AM When is that? When and where?

Naya Young

9:22:14AM I think it is the 16th -- I think December -- yes, there it is. December 16th from 6 to 7 at the centro asturiano. That's why we're moving it. We want the listening session first and then come back. I want to make sure everybody understood that.

Lynn Hurtak

9:22:36AM Can you put that up for everyone to see? Thank you.

Alan Clendenin

9:22:43AM Is that it? Everybody else good. Motion to approve the agenda, please? Motion from Councilman Viera. Second from Councilman Maniscalco. All in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. Clerk, if we can make sure we have the timers on for everything today because it will be a tough agenda. I would appreciate that. That was a rough agenda approval. We'll start with our commendations and presentation. First is for our police officer of the month. Councilman Viera, can you kick us off, please?

Luis Viera

9:23:44AM Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. We are here today for the officer of the month who is corporal Jacob gonzalez. To speak on this honoree and what makes him such an exceptional police officer, we're going to have chief kate come forward. Ruth kate, assistant chief of operations here for Chief Bercaw who sends his regrets he couldn't be here. It is indeed an honor to introduce you to corporal Jacob gonzalez. He is being recognized as our officer of the month for December 2025. Corporate gonzalez exemplifies the highest standards of Tampa's Police Department through his outstanding dedication to traffic safety, impaired driving prevention and community education. His efforts consistently extend beyond routine enforcement, reflecting a genuine commitment to safeguarding lives and enhancing the overall well-being of Tampa's residents and visitors. In addition to his regular duties, corporal gonzalez has developed and delivers on a regular basis a comprehensive safe driving and impaired driving prevention program to every public high school in Tampa, as well as several private schools. Through this initiative, he has instructed more than 1,000 driver education students every year. Preparing young drivers to make responsible and informed decisions on the road. Corporal gonzalez also voluntarily oversees the department's child passenger safety seat program, and in this role, he provides a hands-on instruction to more than 600 parents on proper car seat installation and has personally installed over a hundred child safety seats in 2024 alone. Many of which were provided at no cost to families in need. His efforts ensure that Tampa's youngest passengers travel safely every day. Beyond the city, statewide through active participation in the Florida occupant protection coalition and Florida impaired driver coalition. His work with these two groups supports the development and implementation of initiatives aimed at reducing crashes and saving lives throughout our state. Corporal gonzalez's dedication, leadership, and commitment to public safety has made him truly deserving of this recognition. That's why he is December's officer of the month. Congratulations. [ applause ]

9:26:17AM Thank you, madam. Before we hear from you, sir, we have members of the community who would like to come and express their appreciation. I am grace gonzalez here on behalf of the gonzmart family and 1905 family of restaurants. Thank you so much for being here in Tampa and for everything you do. As a hospitality state we have a lot of people in town who don't always know where they are going. Thank you for keeping our streets safe. Gift card. Please enjoy yourself at any of the restaurants across the state. Thank you and congratulations. [ applause ] Brian ford with the Tampa Bay buccaneers. Corporal gonzalez, thank you. Thank you for what you and your family sacrifice for the city. Your story is unbelievable, especially helping all the kids. But we have a tradition out at one buc. Anybody that goes over and above gets a game ball. I'm here to present to you on behalf of the glazer family and our organization, your own very custom game ball with today's date and everything. Thank you very much for your service. [ applause ]

Charlie Miranda

9:27:26AM I have to apologize to you and to the sports authority. Somehow the communication between the administration, my office and the dedication of Friday at 11:00 in the morning, the legacy of George and leonard levy. It was not done intentionally and want to apologize publicly. Thank you very much. I appreciate you doing that.

Alan Clendenin

9:27:49AM Just remind everybody to face forward at the podium when you're speaking because the microphone is buried in the podium. Congratulations on a job well done. Thank you for everything you do for our community. Behalf of Todd stepp and stepp's towing, present a gift card. Have dinner on us. Appreciate everything you do for the city. Thank you very much. [ applause ] mary dillon, straz center for the performing arts. Thank you so much for your work in our community. On behalf of straz center, I want to provide you some tickets to upcoming performance. Thank you very much. [ applause ] Leo geary with bill currie ford. Congratulations, corporal. It is truly an honor for me to stand up here every single day. I know I say this every single time, but the guys that put these uniforms on every single day --

9:28:47AM Make sure you face forward. The room keeping us safe. I truly appreciate you guys. Again, congratulations. On behalf of bill currie ford, present to you a handwritten letter from Jennifer curry herself with a gift card. Also a certificate for maintenance on your personal vehicle and other in there. [ applause ]

9:29:17AM I know it's awkward, just remember, when you are facing forward, the cameras are looking at your face. Even when you are addressing the audience members, they can see you on the camera. Mary lou bailey here on behalf of Zoo Tampa. I serve on the board of directors. We all thank you for your service. I'm the mom of two teen drivers. I particularly appreciate all the work that you've done. We brought you an annual membership to Zoo Tampa for you and your family and a goodie basket. Usually mark Haney is here and he would have clever stories as to why he picked the tiger for your story. But he had to go to another meeting. You have my thanks and the thanks from the board of Zoo Tampa and thanks to everybody who serves. You guys are all awesome. Thank you again and enjoy the membership. [ applause ] corporal gonzalez, thank you so much for your service. My name is MaryBeth Williams. I'm with friends of the Tampa riverwalk. I'm here to present with you a personalized paver on the riverwalk with your name on it. We'll notify you when it is engraved. I would like to say I have a certificate, but I actually have two for fire. I also in addition have a gift certificate from Florida Avenue brewing. A gift certificate from joe toro. And from hospitality, two pirate water taxi passes, two lost pearl complimentary admissions. Thank you for your service. [ applause ] I'm here on behalf of Tampa theatre. Corporal, thank you so much for everything you do for our community. As a parent, thank you for keeping our kids safe. I'm here to present you with a membership for two to Tampa theatre so you can come and visit us on Franklin Street, enjoy movies, popcorn, candy. Thank you for everything you do. [ applause ] we need to plant some footprints on here. Like the airport, you face this way. I know the drill.

9:31:36AM Everybody wants to see your pretty face, Steve. We'll see. We'll take a vote. Steve Michelini here on behalf of a couple of different folks. They would like to honor you for your dedication and service to the community. The first one is Jackson's bistro. They'll provide you with a gift certificate to enjoy yourself for lunch or dinner. On behalf of yummy house china bistro, another gift certificate, enjoy yourself over there. Ciccio restaurant group, there are a number of restaurants they have on South Howard. You can enjoy yourself over there, lunch or dinner. Daily eats, you can have breakfast. Meat market in old Hyde Park, gift certificate. Take the letters and take the certificates. Congratulations. We appreciate your service. [ applause ]

Luis Viera

9:32:31AM Behalf of very grateful City of Tampa, Tampa City Council and government, we give you the commendation and thank you for your service. [ applause ] I appreciate the community support. As successful as the programs have been impaired driving and occupant protection, it wouldn't have been as successful without the support of my chain of command which are all here, starting from sergeant through the chief's office including chief kate and Chief Bercaw, the mayor who and council who approves the grant that aids me in doing the occupant protection and fair driving programs. They are great programs. We definitely see a reduction in injuries with children involved in crashes and also high school students involved in impaired driving incidents. Once again, I appreciate the community's recognition and support. Hopefully we continue to be a success. Thank you.

Alan Clendenin

9:33:31AM Thank you very much. [ applause ]

Bill Carlson

9:33:40AM I just want to say thank you for all you do and for your colleagues. When I was a kid, my parents, at least my parents didn't use car seats. They would put me on the front seat and leave me there without a seat belt. We know what happened with a lot of people there. I had three kids. It's been a long time. I can't remember whether I went to fire or police. That service you provide is really essential. No matter how SMART people think they are, most people don't know how to put those seats in. It only takes a few seconds for you all to show them. It could mean that you saved the life of your child. It's really worth the time. For those of us who have kids, our kids are the most precious thing we have. We definitely need to take care of them. Thank you for keeping them safe.

Lynn Hurtak

9:34:31AM I want to say congratulations because all your grants went through two weeks ago, so thrilled. I had some questions about those because I want to see what we can do to piggy back off of that and do more because driver speeding and impaired driving is just increasing as much as you all do to help. So I just want to say thank you so much because you're making a huge difference. It's a huge problem. But this one in particular, speeding just really, really impaired driving is a huge scourge. Thank you for the work you do and the heart you put into it. Takes a special person. Love to find the different niches that our employees find. I'm really glad this is yours. Thank you so much. Once again, it is your support that allows us to be the most, I guess, being a part of the impaired driving coalition, City of Tampa is recognized for our efforts. We go above and beyond what most agencies do. It's because of, like I said, your support and through the chief's office support for our mission. We definitely do the best we can.

Charlie Miranda

9:35:44AM I just want to clarify and make it simple. Might be our support but your actions that do the work that makes the wheel go around and saves the lives of the community. Not only your department, our department, City of Tampa, but throughout the great country, we really appreciate everything that the Police Department does, not only here, but throughout the world, protecting the citizens of the community in which they live. Thank you very much.

Alan Clendenin

9:36:07AM I hope you and everybody else that wears the badge knows that you've got seven people up here that support what you do every day of the week, 365 days out of the year. We're grateful for your work and keeping Tampa safe. Thank you very much. [ applause ]

9:36:27AM We're going to pause for one moment to clear the room. Councilman Viera.

Luis Viera

9:37:02AM Mr. Chairman, I would like to invite Chief Tripp to come forward to speak about her firefighter of the quarter.

Alan Clendenin

9:37:37AM Councilman Miranda, there is the little boy that upstaged you when you were talking earlier.

Chief Tripp

9:37:43AM Barbara Tripp, Fire Chief Tampa Fire Rescue. Today, I am proud to introduce not only one of my employees, but a good friend of mine. Captain Brian barsoumian. He is currently assigned to engine 13, which is also known as the station for nightmare on street. There is a lot of history. He continues to serve the area up by the busch gardens area. He has served since 2008. City of Tampa firefighter for 17 years. Captain barsoumian is a selfless and effective leader, consistently striving for excellence in every respect of his work. He demonstrates an unwavering commitment to his crew, treating him like family and going above and beyond to ensure that they have the resources to support necessary for success in their career as well. His high level of integrity and dedication to doing what is right are qualities that have earned him the respect of his peers and supervisors alike. Beyond his responsibility to Tampa Fire Rescue, beyond his responsibility, Tampa Fire Rescue captain barsoumian is deeply involved in his community. He volunteers as a camp counselor at camp hopetake for the last ten years earning counselor of the year honors in 2023. Additionally, he has been instructor at the leery technical academy since 2020 and actively assisting with training new recruits at Tampa Fire Rescue. His expertise through various certifications. He is fire officer one and two. Also a rope tech and also has the certification for bmr which enhances ability to perform his current role. Also coaches youth football and little league baseball and speaks to recruits about critical issues such as dui prevention, substance abuse, ptsd and resilience in the face of adversity. What truly set captain barsoumian apart, however, of his heroic action in emergency situation, his wife told us of a story while they was on vacation, may of this year, May 17, 2025, while on vacation in Virginia beach, captain barsoumian and his wife encountered a motorcycle accident with two riders that was face down in the roads without any helmets. They had sustained severe head injuries. Without hesitation, captain barsoumian, he pulled over with his wife and, of course, he took charge of the scene, managing the 911 call, calming bystanders and, of course, notifying the proper authority about the injuries on scene. What we call trauma alerts. He immediately administered care and treatment to the patients. His quick assessment in prioritizing of the patients' needs coupled with his calm attitude under pressure played a critical role in stabilizing victims until emergency service arrived. His quick thinking and decisive action that day played a critical role in saving multiple lives. I want to congratulate captain barsoumian for being nominated firefighter of the quarter. His unwavering dedication, exceptional commitment and consistent embodiment of TFR mission continues to set the standards for excellence within our department. Congratulations. [ applause ]

Luis Viera

9:41:16AM I know we have a lot of folks from the community who are coming here to honor you. I did want to recognize, I saw Chief David dittman with Plant City hiding back there.

Alan Clendenin

9:41:28AM Councilman Viera, remember you have to face forward toward the podium. And 1905 family of restaurants. Thank you so much for being here in Tampa and being so brave, coach, counselor, role model. Thank you. Thank your family for all the sacrifices you make. Gift certificate to enjoy any of the restaurants. Take the kids to ulele, have a night off. Congratulations. [ applause ] chairman, Tampa City Council, members of the public and those in attendance, nick stocco, Tampa president firefighters local. You are a true mentor, leader. You mentored me in the young stages of my career as well as your mentors being here. To the chief's point, his rap sheet is significant. He has gone above and beyond. The chief and I served time together at station 13. It was one of the truly busiest stations. Captain barsoumian chose to go to that station because he answers the bell each and every time. He is an awesome family man, as we see his wife and kids here and the rest of his family. On behalf of the members of the Tampa firefighters, we want to congratulate you, brother, on a great job. Love it. [ applause ] captain, unbelievable. Resum and story, your family's sacrifice. But to do that on vacation, you can tell the support you have from your peers. If anybody is worthy of getting a little special recognition, it's you. On behalf of the glazer family and our entire organization, have to look forward here. I would like to present this game ball for you for all that you do and the sacrifice you and your family give. Thank you very much. [ applause ] mike mcarthur, stepp's towing service. Congratulations on a job well done. Taking this experience to wherever you go is a testament to your chief and your staff, just how awesome this group of people are in what you guys do for our community. Behalf of Todd stepp's and stepp's towing, congratulate you. Job well done. Have dinner on us. Appreciate everything you do. On behalf of the straz center, want to thank you for your time and service to our community. Please accept tickets to an upcoming performance. Take your family. Enjoy your day. Thank you. [ applause ] my name is MaryBeth Williams. I'm executive director of friends of the Tampa riverwalk. I would like to present with you a personalized riverwalk paver in honor of your service. In addition, we've got a little packet here. Gift certificate to Florida Avenue brewing. We've got a gift certificate to splitsville for an adult night out. And from hospitality, two pirate water taxi passes, two lost pearl complimentary admissions and dinner for two on yacht star SHIP. Thank you for your service. [ applause ] thank you so much for what you do for the City of Tampa. It shows with your peers here supporting you. On behalf of bill currie ford, handwritten letter from Jennifer curry and gift card in there as well. And also a certificate for full maintenance on your personal vehicle. Congratulations. [ applause ] captain, congratulations. I have here a membership for Tampa theatre, so you can enjoy date night together. Candy maybe for the kids. Thank you so much for everything you do for our community. We are so lucky. Congratulations. [ applause ] mary lou bailey. I'm here on behalf of Zoo Tampa. I volunteer on the board there. The board has purchased a family membership to the zoo for you. It is an annual membership. Christmas in the wild has started, the evening event. I love that. Even my teenagers still like to go, thankfully. I want to thank you for your service. I particularly like the part of your story about all the mentoring and how you serve as a role model to young people. So inspiring and so great. Thank the whole family and thank everybody who serves. You are all rock stars in my book. Enjoy in good health. Thank you so much. [ applause ] a little wolf. Works out. First I'll give you a little history. Back in the day, I represented busch gardens when the busch family owned busch gardens. I was the one who helped negotiate the deal to give you the land for that station to be built. Thank you. Thank you.

9:47:13AM It was like 1890? [ laughter ] anyway, it's just a matter of giving back to the community. The land was donated for strategic location because that area was under serviced. Obviously, we've grown since then. Anyway, the intent was to provide North Tampa with better service. On behalf of the ciccio restaurant group, we're providing with you a gift certificate. Enjoy yourself there, breakfast, lunch or dinner. Yummy house china bistro. I say this all the time. The chief wants to you invite her. I think she might hold out for the meat market. Anyway, meat market old Hyde Park, gift certificate there. Jackson's bistro over on Harbour Island. Congratulations. As I said earlier, I'm facing front and take those certificates with you. Thank you. I appreciate it. [ applause ]

Luis Viera

9:48:25AM On behalf of a grateful city for all that you do not just for fire station 13 but all your civic work. I see your friends with Tampa firefighters charity fund, they are here because of your big heart that you always show for people. We're proud to honor you. Thank you, buddy. God bless you. Do you want to say anything? [ applause ] this is autopsies. Thank you so much. I've met council member Viera at camp hopetake several times. This is a humbling moment. Big moment in my life. Nobody was shocked more than I for sure. It's also a little tough today. This is the first event I have without my grandfather physically being here. But as you can see, I have all my family members here. It's a big foundation of where everything started and big reason of why of who I am to this day. I want to start off with council members, Fire Chief Tripp, Local 754 and the awards committee. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for this incredible honor. Very humbling moment for myself and gratifying moment for my family and those who continue to serve with me. Came across a quote, average of five people that you spend the most time with. As I accept this recognition, I can't help but reflect on the people throughout my life who helped shape me, support me and help me into the person I am and the firefighter I have become. As a person that's had a lot of adversity throughout my life, first thank my dad for introducing me to the sport of wrestling. The lessons I learned on that mat have come to play a significant role in my life. What I didn't know at that time and what I know now is that wrestling taught me accountability. It taught me discipline. It taught me resilience and the importance of mental toughness. Those are the lessons that I carried directly into this career. Taught me how to push past exhaustion when tired, how to keep calm when under pressure and how to get back up when life knocks you down. To my mother, big moment for me. She had a major procedure last week. She showed tremendous strength being here today. My mother, thank you for being the first example of strength, compassion, determination. Your tough love, your guidance, and the foundation I stand on every day. To my grandmother, unwavering support throughout my entire life has played an instructional role to who I am today. Steady and encouraging voice through every stage of my journey, always believing in me, cheering on me and reminding me of the values that truly matter. The lessons you taught me about hard work, humility, kindness, and doing what is right follow me into every shift. I carry your love and your influence with everything I do. Chief dittman has known me my entire career. He took a chance on me when I put in as a rookie. Chief, thank you for being a mentor in every sense of the word. Your leadership shaped my career but your belief in me shaped my confidence. Your guidance, a whole lot of patience and example have pushed me to grow not just as a firefighter but as a person. To my wife --

Alan Clendenin

9:51:53AM She's busy. [ laughter ] thank you for your continued support and always being the best for me and the boys. As you can see, she is a strong woman and I'm very fortunate for everything I have thanks to her. And to the rest of my family, your support and encouragement means more than I can express. Last but not least, to everyone I've ever been stationed with, current and former, I wouldn't be standing here without you throughout the thousands of calls we run, thank you for always making me look good. Thank you for this recognition as it is just as much yours as it is mine. Thank you all for again this tremendous honor. I'm deeply humbled, very humbled. I'm grateful. I'm proud. I'm proud of this department I serve. I'm proud of the community I serve. Thank you so much. I greatly appreciate all of you. [ applause ] for the record, I had to write that down because my memory is starting to become more like my hair these days.

9:52:58AM I think your hair is just fine.

9:53:02AM Councilwoman Hurtak.

Lynn Hurtak

9:53:03AM Thank you so much. That was a wonderful speech. The most recent ride I did with fire rescue was at 13 and 24. Just an awesome adventure to see what you do every day and the heart you put into it. It's very clear why you won this award. Congratulations. I'm so happy for you and for your wife and your family. It's very clear for the people that support you. Just so they get the recognition, if you are part of the family who came here today, can you just stand up? Yeah. Yeah. [ applause ] thank you.

Alan Clendenin

9:53:52AM Councilman Carlson followed by Councilman Maniscalco.

Bill Carlson

9:53:56AM As someone else said, your resum is incredibly impressive and would love to learn more about that. And thank you for all you do and thank you for stepping in. What you did I guess is an example of what you and your colleagues do every day. You jump right into the situation when you are needed. A small example of that is when you first came up in front of us and your son was crying, and your wife had her hands full, you grabbed your son. And as a father, maybe parents in the room will understand this as a father I gasp because you are wearing a white shirt. [ laughter ]

9:54:38AM You didn't care. You jumped right in. Thank you for bringing your family. Appreciate it.

Guido Maniscalco

9:54:42AM Congratulations. Hell of a resum and everything that you have done. Thank you for that. And thank you to your family for the sacrifice they make because you are out, you are doing, you are protecting, you are saving. How old are you? Thanksgiving Day.

9:55:01AM We are the same age and you mentioned this is the first event without your grandfather but you have your grandmother here.

9:55:08AM Grandparents are so important. You are lucky that at this age you still have.

9:55:14AM Thank you to them. Because the values they have instilled in you, clearly, they help make you who you are today. We're very proud of you. All the people behind you are proud of you. You're what makes Tampa fire great. You are a shining example. So congratulations. I appreciate you. [ applause ]

Alan Clendenin

9:55:36AM Thank you on behalf of a grateful Tampa City Council, we appreciate it. I definitely appreciate you bringing your boys today. Great way to start the meeting to be able to watch their energy and -- thank you very much. This would be a good moment.

9:55:53AM I appreciate you bringing them. Have a good day. Congratulations. [ applause ] we'll pause for one second to clear the room.

9:57:20AM Councilwoman Hurtak.

Lynn Hurtak

9:58:09AM Okay. Good morning, everyone. I'm here to introduce Steve simon, who is going to tell us about our ATU employee of the month. Good morning, Mr. Chairman. Good morning, council. Special shout-out to Councilwoman Young. And good morning, City of Tampa. I'm Steve simon. I'm the president of the amalgamated transit union local 1464 and we keep the City of Tampa running. I'm happy to be here this morning to introduce you to ATU employee of the month, Mr. Jose Hernandez. [ applause ] on behalf of the leadership team at the Tampa Convention Center, I want to expression our sincere appreciation to your outstanding contributions and unwavering dedication during the months of July to August of 2025. Your exceptional work ethic and commitment to improving Tampa Convention Center facilities have been truly commendable. By completing over 200 work orders and logging 400 man-hours, you achieved the highest production rate among the operations personnel, a remarkable accomplishment. Your craftsmanship was especially evident during the renovation of the operations break room. Your skilled installation of laminate flooring, counter tops, cabinets, and a sink not only enhanced the workforce -- work space, but also saved the Convention Center a substantial amount of money. Additionally, your efforts in painting over 5,000 square feet -- that is a lot -- of convention space, including the front drive, landing, hallways, and office areas resulted in further cost savings for the City of Tampa. We always love to see cost savings. What stands out most is your ability to take on these major renovation projects while consistently managing your scheduled maintenance duties and responding promptly to both routine and emergency service requests. Your work exemplifies the highest standards of professionalism and reflects the core values we uphold at the City of Tampa. Thank you once again for your hard work, dedication, and for setting such a high standard of excellence. We are proud to have you on our team. And we thank you and appreciate you for everything that you do to help keep the City of Tampa running. And on behalf of ATU local 1464, I would like to present you with this award. [ applause ] if I may --

10:01:05AM We need to do a quick photo first.

Alan Clendenin

10:01:08AM It didn't happen if you don't have a photo. From the mayor. Congratulations on being selected as the amalgamated transit union employee of the month for your professionalism, strong work ethic, enthusiasm, and for going above and beyond in all aspects in your position as a maintenance repair two for the Tampa Convention Center. You have earned the respect of your superiors, peers, and the community. You are an asset and integral part of the Tampa Convention Center and the City of Tampa's mission of providing superior services, and you are highly deserving of this recognition. Your dedication and service set an outstanding example for others to follow. It is employees like you, jose, that make me proud to serve as mayor. Thank you for your dedication and service. Sincerely, Mayor Jane. [ applause ]

Lynn Hurtak

10:02:08AM We have some folks who want to show their appreciation for you. Get going with that. I will start. The zoo had to leave. So I am presenting you with the zoo membership and the manatee. Again, mark is not here. I don't know why he chose the manatee, but the manatee is one of our favorites. Congratulations. [ applause ] mary dillon, straz center for the performing arts. Thank you so much for all the hard work you do. As a big performing arts center, can really appreciate the level of work that has to go into keeping a big building moving and all the parts working. Thank you so much. On behalf of the straz center, please accept tickets to upcoming performance and enjoy the evening. Again, thank you so much. [ applause ] Mr. Simon, thank you very much. Mr. Hernandez, from one behind-the-scenes guy to another, thank you for all that you do behind the scenes for our great city. And thank you for the sacrifice that your family supports you with. As I mentioned before, we have a little tradition at one buc, anybody that goes over and above gets a game ball. Your story definitely represents that. On behalf of the glazer family and our entire organization, thank you. [ applause ] also like to wish everyone a very happy and safe holiday season. Thanks for all that you guys do. Thank you very much.

Alan Clendenin

10:03:57AM Thank you, Mr. Ford. Mike mcarthur, stepp's towing service. We don't get to see you behind the scenes and what it's like. People like you that keep the city running, and we appreciate it. So on behalf of Todd stepp and stepp's towing, congratulate you. Thank you for everything you do for the city. Gift card. Have dinner on us. Happy holidays to everybody. Thank you. [ applause ] you know, the maintenance people, you sure know it if it's not working. When you go into that facility and the air conditioning or plumbing is not working, you're not staying. Anyway, I'm happy to have Andre Davis join me. He is the president of the longshoremen's union. He'll introduce from Jackson bistro. International longshoremens. I used to work at the Tampa Convention Center, but I couldn't fix nothing. I was a banquet guy. Anyway, on behalf of the Jackson's bistro, we would like to present with you a gift card for dinner, for you and your family or your wife. [ applause ] gift certificate, enjoy yourself lunch or dinner. Ciccio restaurant group, breakfast, lunch, or dinner. The meat market in old Hyde Park, lunch or dinner. Just in recognition, I'd like to bring these two union folks together. At some point perhaps bring them back. The longshoremen's union is celebrating its 90th year and was instrumental in establishing a work program for blacks in this community as well as cultural and social fathering place to forward the initiatives. Anyway, thank you very much and congratulations. [ applause ]

Lynn Hurtak

10:06:14AM And we have our commendation from our grateful City Council. Thank you so much for all of your work. After this quick photo, let you say a few words. I come from the private sector where the more you do, the more they want. When I started working for the City of Tampa, I thought I was doing my job. I get well compensated for. For being recognized for doing my job, it's truly beyond what I believe. It is teamwork. I am truly grateful that my superiors listen to our requests to get materials and whatever it is that we need to make the place beautiful. They listen and apply, that's how we achieve. I'm humble and grateful. Thank you guys very much. [ applause ]

Charlie Miranda

10:07:23AM I just want to say thank you. That Convention Center has a lot of history. It was built by mayors who wanted to see changes in the City of Tampa. However, when it was built, we didn't have a convention hotel downtown. So we had some lean years in the government because we had to pay the subsidies that wasn't creating the revenue. However, the marriott came in, not the five star, the other marriott, which looks like a five star. They started out by them being there. The attendance started rising and other hotels came in and it made the Convention Center what it is. However, it would have never been what it is if it wasn't for individuals like yourself, the staff, because you go into that Convention Center, maybe 35, 40 years old, about you it looks, what, brand new. You can see your face on the floor. That's how much it shines. The building is impeccably clean. That's what makes the people comfortable coming to Tampa. That's because Tampa is now one of the most highest hotel occupancy in the country of the United States of America. Thank you and your staff for what you have done. Muchisimas gracias.

Alan Clendenin

10:08:33AM Councilman Carlson.

Bill Carlson

10:08:35AM Thank you for everything you do. The example that was given about the tiles and everything, that's showing that you take an initiative. You're making sure that the facility looks great, that people are able to enjoy it. As my colleague said, it puts a great face forward for Tampa, but also you are probably saving the city money. Thanks for taking initiative on that.

Alan Clendenin

10:08:55AM On behalf of Tampa City Council, thank you. Absolutely.

Naya Young

10:08:59AM I was just telling Chair Clendenin that we have -- this is a great way to start this meeting because we see that we have really great people that keep the city running from our union to firefighters to our police. You all really either put yourselves on the line or you are in doing the work. Sometimes we don't see it. I just want to say thank you. It's been amazing to watch the presentations. Wow, you all really keep the city running. So thank you.

Alan Clendenin

10:09:29AM On behalf of Tampa City Council, thank you for what you do. The Convention Center is a jewel of the City of Tampa. We appreciate you. Thank you. [ applause ]

10:09:49AM Trying to get in?

Lynn Hurtak

10:09:56AM The line is down stairs.

Alan Clendenin

10:10:08AM We're going to do a true ten-minute break. Come back At 10:20. [ sounding gavel ] [recess]

Guido Maniscalco

10:31:59AM Here.

Lynn Hurtak

10:32:00AM Here.

Naya Young

10:32:00AM Here.

Bill Carlson

10:32:02AM Here.

Alan Clendenin

10:32:03AM Here.

The clerk

10:32:04AM We have a physical quorum.

Alan Clendenin

10:32:06AM Thank you so much. Why don't we do the spiel first since we'll do 64 per our agenda review. Councilwoman Hurtak.

Lynn Hurtak

10:32:15AM Can we clarify what's going on with 64 first? I've gotten some folks asking. They aren't sure exactly what we're doing with item 64.

Martin Shelby

10:32:26AM May I attempt to do so? So it doesn't have to become a discussion. My understanding, members of the public, with regard to number 64, if you are here on number 64 in particular, and that subject is a discussion about whether or not stormwater monies or staff should be used on parades or special events, if you are here to speak on that, you have a choice. You can either speak before the item is heard, or you can hear the city's presentation and then have the opportunity to speak.

Lynn Hurtak

10:32:59AM No. we're doing that item right now. We're not listening to it after.

Martin Shelby

10:33:04AM I see. You're not even going to take public comment.

Alan Clendenin

10:33:09AM After 64.

Lynn Hurtak

10:33:10AM Total of 15 minutes.

Martin Shelby

10:33:12AM See. I'm glad we did this. What's happening is the City Council during the approval of the agenda decided to take up item number 64 immediately after ceremonial and allow 15 minutes total in which to take public comment. After the public comment on number 64, then they will open it up to the rest of public comment. If you are here to speak on number 64, you will not have an opportunity to comment on it twice. You will either speak to it during the 15 minutes before or speak -- you could speak to it for the 15 minutes when the item is first taken up, but you can't speak to it again during public comment. Do I say that correctly?

Lynn Hurtak

10:33:57AM No. because we'll have the discussion, and then it will be done. He's saying you can't speak on 64 twice. 64 will be solved.

Martin Shelby

10:34:09AM Solved to your satisfaction, but maybe not to the public's. What I'm suggesting then, we don't cut down --

Alan Clendenin

10:34:17AM Let's move on.

Martin Shelby

10:34:19AM I tried.

Alan Clendenin

10:34:20AM You tried. Right now, per our discussion on the agenda review, we are going to hear item 64. After we hear staff present and we have discussion on 64, the public will be afforded an opportunity to discuss item 64 for a maximum of 15 minutes. What I'm going to ask is that if you're not here to speak on item 64, to either take a seat or move over to the other side of the room. We will line up people that want to speak to 64 on this side. I'll make a determination of how many people are there, so how many minutes each person will get based on the people against the wall at that point.

Bill Carlson

10:34:55AM Can you also clarify the folks here for land use hearings?

Alan Clendenin

10:35:01AM When we went on break, we have a lot of people here for public comment. I doubt we'll get to much city business until after lunch, just fyi. Itself.

10:35:19AM On the item itself. Which is typical normal city business. General public comment and issues that are judicial, you'll have an opportunity to speak to those individual issues after each one of those are presented. Everybody clear?

Lynn Hurtak

10:35:34AM No, that wasn't clear. If you are here for items 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49 or 50 or 51, 52 or 53, we probably won't get to that -- I'm sorry. That's not what I meant to say. If you are here to speak on those, those you speak on at the item, not during public comment. Did I say that right?

Martin Shelby

10:36:10AM Yes. One more thing to be clear on. Do not suggest that you are not going to get to them until after lunch. What will happen, you won't be able to take it up until after lunch because of what you're saying.

Alan Clendenin

10:36:21AM What he said. Are we absolutely totally in a fog now? Let's simplify it, right now, Tampa City Council is going to hear item 64. Chief Bennett.

John Bennett

10:36:42AM Good morning again, council. John Bennett, chief of staff. Good morning to our public. We're looking forward to this discussion as it's outlined in the motion. The discussion with myself, Ms. Kopesky, the City Council budget analyst and we have other staff members here, the budget department is here, the Legal Department is here, the Police Department is here as well as the Stormwater Division of the Mobility department. This is, again, an important discussion, as council and the public probably remember, it was so important that we collaborated together, the administration and council, to have a special call ahead of the budget adoption process for fiscal year '26. The surgicality of the discussion we opened up that night with a risk formula discussion about now we can bring those together. The risk, of course, in stormwater comes down to threat times vulnerability times consequence. And we know that we've had unique threats and unique consequences a year ago in 24. And we continue to work on a ten-year plan. Stormwater is here to talk about any aspects of that. There are also unique risks in special events. The three primary groups that work the events are public works, public safety, and Parks and Recreation. I think one of the biggest parts of this discussion was where stormwater assessment funding specifically used for that service involves special event work, whether street sweeping after the event, in some cases hardening. So we're willing to have that discussion now. Everybody is here in case there's any interest in any specific subtopic on that. I will tell council, again, supported by the subject matter leads that are here, that it's been our research and at least as far back as budget can tell me that there's been specific funding put into the stormwater budget, unique to General Fund use, such as working the events, whether street sweeping after or supporting the hardening of an event based on any other risks for those events. But, again, our focus is life and property in all areas. Again, stormwater can get into the details based on these levels of service. There is a level of service for stormwater that's funded by the support of council approving the budget and implementation over the year. And there is, obviously, funding to plan and submit and approve special events for the public. And so, again, we're just looking to further that discussion. We can go into any of the data points that we looked at so far. I will make a recommendation that in the special event space, I have given probably a half a dozen requests to the special events office and the legal office to try and start making sure that we move things as efficiently and effectively as possible around events, including looking at the code that has been in existence for some time for special events. Just as a reminder to the public, we typically have five different categories of events. We have city-sponsored events that are in the charter. We have cosponsored events that could have some sort of balancing between the promoter and the city. We have contracted events which typically come in under contract, very unique events like maybe the nca events or the super bowl, things like that. Then we have dignitary events, especially with the big macdill base here and, of course, other dignitary visits. And then there are private events that may have a halo effect to the city, and we have to send resources to support, even though the private event is really not something the city is working directly on. So there are a myriad of things that we have to work throughout the year on. I have pulled and I continue to pull data from the events office, from the budget office, from the stormwater, and, again, they are all here to have that discussion. So looking forward to the public comment. I do think this would be a holistic workshop somewhere as we turn the corner of the calendar year. Again, what is council's pleasure at this point?

Alan Clendenin

10:40:49AM Chief Bennett, I would like to just for you to clarify and maybe Mr. Perry since he is here. I think there is a lot of misinformation. The Stormwater Department, the money that is spent from stormwater, the assets that we have, the personnel, when they are pulled and used to set up a parade or barricades, what money is being used when they are setting up barricades? Is it stormwater money or General Fund money?

John Bennett

10:41:18AM General Fund money.

Alan Clendenin

10:41:20AM Hundred percent?

John Bennett

10:41:21AM Whenever that event is planned there is an estimate that comes from stormwater to the events office. And then that money would be supported by the General Fund as one of the many funds that support stormwater. Again, Mr. Perry and, of course, Brandon Campbell are here to talk about that.

Alan Clendenin

10:41:39AM I saw Councilman Carlson and Councilwoman Hurtak.

Bill Carlson

10:41:44AM You didn't sound very confident in that response. My philosophy is that if you look at what happened in South Tampa, other than storm surge, there was flooding all over the place that happened in part because of the lack of maintenance. And the public was promised in 2016 that maintenance would be done every seven years. Most of the neighborhoods I've been to, been to all of them in South Tampa that flooded. And they had not had maintenance in decades. There was at least one retention pond in Palma Ceia Pines that didn't even have an active permit and hadn't been looked at in like ten years. It's appalling the lack of maintenance that happened. This is before the mayor sends another nasty gram, it's not criticizing the staff people who worked really hard on this. It's criticizing the priorities that were set by the administration for not prioritizing cleaning the ditches, cleaning the retention ponds, and redirecting the water. We live in an environment in Florida where there's rain all the time. It's not acceptable that houses are flooding. And we know that maintenance is a part of it. And when people look to see that they are paying particularly for stormwater, we should be finding solutions, and we also should not be wasting money on big projects that won't work instead of doing the basic maintenance around the community. Still, there are a lot of neighborhoods that don't have maintenance. The maintenance was never done. And we've got to prioritize it. I think we should have a workshop on this. And there needs to be a full accounting and probably hire forensic accounting person to go back and see whether the money really did come out of the General Fund or not. Even if it did, that money was allocated towards stormwater, and we need to make sure that we're putting every dollar we can into stormwater, and especially with the specific taxes that are being spent efficiently. But the other thing is, just like with any other enterprise fund, and we talked about the Convention Center, and now we've got these events, we need to have separate p and ls on this to understand what the costs are. The events come before us for approval for allowing people to have an event, but if the city is providing in-kind services, that all needs to be disclosed and need to know what we're getting out of it. If the city doesn't have the money or resources in the General Fund to offer that, then we need to say no to some of them. I don't want to say no to parades and events, but if we can't afford it, we can't. We're also taking in-kind resources away from police and fire and other departments that we desperately need. I think we need to reevaluate the events and what cost the city is putting in them. A lot of these events have been added by different political people over time so they can shake hands and get publicity and get pictures taken. What we need to do is focus on the basics. The public wants us to fix the stormwater and prevent flooding, fix the roads and fix our parks, among other things. Thank you.

Alan Clendenin

10:44:55AM Councilwoman Hurtak.

Lynn Hurtak

10:44:56AM You and I talked about this briefly the other day. I said that one of the things I wanted was the money chain of like how it gets from place to place. And I didn't know if Mr. Perry had that. Mike Perry, Revenue and Finance. Can I have the wolf on, please? Pass these out. Do all council members have a copy?

Alan Clendenin

10:45:52AM We can see it.

Lynn Hurtak

10:45:54AM We're missing one.

Alan Clendenin

10:45:55AM That's okay. I don't need it.

Michael Perry

10:45:58AM Mike Perry, Revenue and Finance. Again, I think you saw this earlier in the summer. You see the funding trend for the stormwater service assessment revenue since 2017. At that time, the city made a commitment to provide $2 million minimum annually to the stormwater service fund. And that money physically gets transferred out of the General Fund into the Stormwater Service Assessment Fund.

Lynn Hurtak

10:46:32AM So what you're saying is that $2 million is what is spent on putting parades together?

Michael Perry

10:46:38AM A part of that money is for the estimated cost of the special events. Brandon Campbell to come up here and probably talk to you about the actual cost. And then any excess money that's not used for special events is applied to the stormwater service levels.

Lynn Hurtak

10:46:59AM Mr. Campbell. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. Can I finish this train of thought and then go back to that? With Mr. Campbell.

Brandon Campbell

10:47:13AM Brandon Campbell, interim director of the Mobility department. In terms of the scale of effort on the part of the stormwater team, in a typical year, we are working 12 to 13 events total. About half of those are gasparilla related in some way or another between the running of the event and the parades. And for the last year for which I had complete data, the total spend was just under $250,000.

Lynn Hurtak

10:47:42AM Do you have an accounting of each parade and the amount of stormwater? It's generally labor that is accounted for for each parade?

Brandon Campbell

10:47:53AM Yes, I could get that to you.

Lynn Hurtak

10:47:55AM How far back do you have that?

Brandon Campbell

10:47:57AM I'm not certain, but I can assemble something with a little bit of history to it.

Lynn Hurtak

10:48:05AM I think what we all want to know is how long this has been going on. I would be interested to know from 2017 -- and I know that will take some time to put together, so I don't have a problem with that. But I'm interested from 2017 the amount of money and the amount of labor, the labor hours and the amount of money. So I can form that into a motion later, and Ms. Scharf, if you are listening, you can kind of start writing that down for me. But, yes, so that's my interest there because the concern is -- I want to be able to see how the money moves from one account to another. How does it move from this $2 million transfer from the General Fund into personnel costs. I want to see that -- the movement. That's what I'm interested in. Oh. I have a second question, too. This, I believe, goes back to either Chief Bennett or Mr. Perry. How much are events paying? I know we talked about the fact that that has increased somewhat, but if there are five different types of events, how has that increased? What are they paying for provisions that the City of Tampa -- I'm not just talking about stormwater here. I'm also talking about police, fire, maintenance, operations, staff.

John Bennett

10:49:38AM Great question. As events have evolved in the city, Councilman Carlson, some events are historical, new, charter. The charter events, of course, are in the charter for that purpose. So the cosponsored events will vary depending on how long it's been historically in place. We have asked over the last couple of years because we see -- it's kind of like the social action in arts fund. We need these events to start picking up the hard costs, if not all the hard costs and what I would call soft costs, permitting and things like that, waning them off of that, helping them run their events, more in the private space than the public space but yet still keep the enjoyment of the events. Those efficiencies and effectiveness moves have been going on. That's why I asked to take a look at the code and see if we need to harden up any of that with council through legislative support. Again, these things are evolving. Right now, my baseline number is about 20% is paid by the promoters in cosponsored events. 80% picked up in some cases by the city with that being worked more towards paying hundred percent of those hard costs.

Lynn Hurtak

10:50:53AM And this is only for cosponsored. What about -- so what about private events?

John Bennett

10:51:00AM Well, let's start with contract, if you don't mind. If we get a contract event that comes to council, could be the super bowl, ncaa event, that's approved by council. Everything is in that contract. That's almost like a charter event at that point. We're deciding where that line is between the event and what they are paying privately for those events. And then for a private event, that's typically awareness, but there could be an event that's going on and a dignitary event that comes in either spontaneous, but you have to think about large-scale demonstrations. We are a big city and we have to go out and protect the public during demonstrations. So those things are kind of ad hoc and quick, and they are not going typically through a permit process if the demonstration fits first amendment opportunities. There are a lot of variables in all of this. Again, the flexibility of staff to try and work through these in an efficient and effect manner but not at the expense of the stormwater level of service, that gets defined by the city and the industry, which is kind of where I try to look through the stormwater process.

Lynn Hurtak

10:52:07AM I have one final question. What would be the cost -- if it costs about $250,000 a year, what would it cost to hire out for this service?

John Bennett

10:52:18AM I think there are two elements to that. Element one would be the actual transaction cost to hire out. Let Mr. Campbell talk about that. Probably explored it oop as a side note, TPD, we've been working with our regional partners to acquire more agile, more highly tech protection systems that don't require stormwater. And those have already been implemented and they are growing. So we're trying to shrink all the public work side and increase the technology. But back to the point, the numbers I've been given have been double. But I think there is another intangible aspect to that. It is the responsivity of the in-kind services to open the road under the pre, post, or post or during the event, emergency work in and around the event. May have to open up something during an emergency to get public safety in that has nothing to do with the event. Having the level of service in the event is critical. It's partly the cost and partly the responsivity. The numbers I've been given are twice as much.

Lynn Hurtak

10:53:26AM You're saying we have stormwater personnel on scene for all of these events to move these things.

John Bennett

10:53:31AM I would defer to Mr. Campbell on that.

Lynn Hurtak

10:53:34AM Okay.

Brandon Campbell

10:53:34AM Yes, that's correct. We do have stormwater personnel on scene to remove barriers in the case of an emergency. I would have to work with the Operations Division to see exactly what the scale of that specific aspect of the effort is. I don't believe we have someone sitting at every piece of barrier. One person with the equipment to move it, that could maneuver to that barrier.

Lynn Hurtak

10:54:01AM Thank you very much. Those are my questions.

Alan Clendenin

10:54:03AM Councilman Miranda.

Charlie Miranda

10:54:05AM Ask you another question, sir, if I may. This is going to open a whole can of worms. Get more difficult than we think. May I ask you a question, sir? Isn't it true that stormwater does a lot of other things other than transfer money into the events, stormwater, when there is events and other big stadiums, that you do all the same things you're doing now in other stadiums and paying for it yourself?

Brandon Campbell

10:54:34AM I'm not sure exactly what specifically you're referring to. The stormwater team does --

Charlie Miranda

10:54:40AM Let me narrow it down. Two areas of town. Downtown and the West Tampa area. There are events that you do there that you use stormwater, put up barricades day and night. Is that a fact or not?

10:54:58AM That's enough. Thank you.

Alan Clendenin

10:55:02AM Councilwoman Young.

Naya Young

10:55:03AM I just wanted to know, the reason the jump from 2024 to 2025 from two to six million for the transfer from General Fund.

Michael Perry

10:55:21AM The adopted budget in '25 increased from 2 million in '24 to 2.5 in '25. Because, again, we do financial analysis and we knew that they were going into some financial concerns, and we wanted to provide that extra half million dollars in sustainability. During the year, council made two motions or two requests as staff. The first one resulted in a $500,000 financial resolution to go from 2.5 to $3 million. Brandon, you recall what the 500,000 was for?

Brandon Campbell

10:55:54AM I believe the specific 500,000 was for ditch maintenance.

Michael Perry

10:55:59AM And then following the final presentation of the close out of fiscal year '24 budget, council requested the administration to provide additional supplemental funding. I do believe that was about $3 million for stormwater, and that was presented to council either the last meeting of July or the first meeting of august and council approved that additional $3 million for stormwater in '25. Then when we did the '26 budget, in the sensitivity and the need to provide additional funding, the mayor approved additional funding of $1.5 million in the '26 budget based on additional budget increase from the department in order to sustain that level of service.

Alan Clendenin

10:56:52AM Mr. Bennett, I think it would be helpful before the public chimes in on this, because I think a lot of this was -- a lot of this was -- there is a lot of information out there that wasn't rooted in fact-based evidence. Could you please just basically start from the beginning of our strategic approach of how we staff stormwater, how we -- can you start from the beginning, a, b, c, elementary way of explaining the city's approach to budgeting for these events, but using the mobility, slash, Stormwater Department to facilitate this and what the financial justification is.

10:57:42AM I think across the -- I think, generally, you kind of hit a little bit of high level when you discussed all of the different types -- the dignitary movements. We have the sports events that we have in town. There are a lot of things that happen between the buccaneers and the lightning, playoffs. We end up having -- if we win the stanley cup, all these things. Just talking about what the financial decision making is of how we staff mobility, slash, stormwater, and how we use those resources and then how that is paid for. Just get an abc, 123 kind of level of overview of it.

John Bennett

10:58:26AM Okay. And again, everything starts with a defined level of service. And everything that comes forward to council in a recommended budget is based on sustaining or exceeding those level of services. That's what we're trying to do over the years by adding all these metrics. Again, back to council support, after the budget started, there was a lot of online information about performance thresholds in stormwater. We have now a pin map online that shows the work orders. Again, trying to increase awareness. But back to the point of deployments, everything is deployed around a level of service. One of the analogies I like to use is fire or police because it's all about response time and making sure that we meet the industry standards. If the expectations and experiences are larger than that, then we would come forward from the public and increase those resources to change those levels of service. My understanding from stormwater, they are working on a five-year storm level of service for the community. So whether we have a ten-year, hundred-year, thousand-year storm, that's something that we have to look at with the climatic change going on. With the special event, every special event gets an analysis from those user departments, support departments that comes forward on a monthly basis. And again, as I mentioned earlier, we've been asking all the hard costs to be paid on cosponsored events, and we started reducing or increasing the city's gain on the soft costs, meaning the permits. Because these events that have historically, just like the social action, have depended on a certain level of service from the city. We have realized a couple of years ago that that's not sustainable. And not only is it not sustainable financially for the very reason we're standing here, we need to make sure that our priorities are focused on things, again, been discussed already in the room. So shifting those opportunities, making sure we have the legislative backstop for it, making sure the approaches and deployments are all the same. So when every department submits their ability to service that event, it has a dollar amount to it. Whether it is paid by the promoter or cosponsored by the city or fully sponsored by the city, that's in this historical journey, if you will, which has been going on since I was running gasparilla right after 9/11. So we're talking decades of pattern here of using city resources in public safety, public works, parks and rec to manage events. And then, to the more narrow point, you know, to Mr. Perry's credit and, of course, other leaders, like brad and jean and everything else, the fact that they infuse stormwater with General Fund dollars to not use assessment dollars was a critical move. And I'm hearing now from Brandon that 250,000 is just a little over 10% of that fund that's used on events. If we do outsource it, again, it is another level of service standard that we'd have to take a look at. Why I recommend to councilman Carlson's point that we do need to look at this holistic. We've been working on segments. Of course, when you get a spike in an issue, like we just had with flooding and things, we have to recalculate. And I think that's why we're here now.

Alan Clendenin

11:01:46AM It sounds like maybe at least have another discussion at a workshop about special events and what we're supporting and level of support for each one of the special events, at least for public disclosure and transparency. From what I'm hearing what you just said, though, is that if the money we're taking out of the General Fund, if we segregated this out and put it to a different department other than stormwater, that would be like $2 million that would not go into stormwater. It would go to a different place, and it would cost us twice as much to provide that service. Is that what I heard correctly? We're transferring $2 million General Fund into the stormwater. Whatever the amount was.

John Bennett

11:02:32AM Staff's analysis, preliminary analysis back to me, because I started talking about this in August, about when the risk from TPD was meeting the stormwater functionality, I started saying we need to start looking at different equipment, start getting this away from the level of service being as high as it is but not taking on the risk. That's when we started increasing, changing out the product, making sure we tried to move events off the street to self-contain, self-protected areas. All this has been evolving now much longer than this discussion. That's why I think it's worthy to come back and look at it in each lane, special events lane, the stormwater lane, and to councilwoman Hurtak's point, all the services that go towards special events. Because, again, the city is growing. We have more asks now than we even had before on special events. We're just trying to manage the future of it.

Alan Clendenin

11:03:32AM We did one round. We'll go to second round. Councilwoman Hurtak and then Councilman Carlson.

Lynn Hurtak

11:03:38AM Question for Mr. Campbell. $25,000, what is the number of worker hours?

Brandon Campbell

11:03:45AM So the total man-hours for that year, for which the $250,000 was calculated was about 3300. And half of that was overtime and half of that was straight time.

Lynn Hurtak

11:04:00AM Okay. Overtime was half. Is stormwater still working six days a week mandatory?

Brandon Campbell

11:04:09AM We have dialed back from the sixth day of the week.

Lynn Hurtak

11:04:13AM When did that occur?

Brandon Campbell

11:04:15AM It was basically at the end of the storm season.

Lynn Hurtak

11:04:18AM So last week.

Brandon Campbell

11:04:22AM Tapering down at the end of the storm season. It was around the Labor Day time frame. I can get you the exact date.

Lynn Hurtak

11:04:29AM Okay. So it ended on Labor Day. Basically, this then is -- is the overtime optional for parades or mandatory?

Brandon Campbell

11:04:40AM It's assigned work.

Lynn Hurtak

11:04:42AM It's mandatory overtime.

Brandon Campbell

11:04:45AM Yes.

Lynn Hurtak

11:04:45AM Thank you.

Alan Clendenin

11:04:46AM Councilman Carlson.

Bill Carlson

11:04:47AM Mr. Campbell, thank you for coming prepared with all the answers in anticipating what we would ask. The 250,000 for staff, can you compare to us the overall budget for staff just for stormwater, trying to figure out what percentage that might be?

Brandon Campbell

11:05:05AM I don't have that figure available. I would like to clarify, that $250,000 is not simply staff time. It does include labor and equipment. Materials generally --

Bill Carlson

11:05:18AM Members of the community have said in their analysis and I think this discovery came from members of the community, that it's as much as 30% of the staff time for stormwater. Does that sound high or low to you?

Brandon Campbell

11:05:29AM Sounds very high to me.

Bill Carlson

11:05:31AM Very high. When you get that, it would be great if you could send it to us. Mr. Bennett, you talked about level of service. In 2016, different administration, you weren't here, at least in this capacity. The public was promised that maintenance would be done in every area every seven years. Stormwater. And then Brandon testified to us a couple of months ago that the current plans are to provide maintenance every seven years. It appears that between the time -- between 2016 and 2024 or 2023, that not a lot of maintenance was done. There were areas where we have trees growing out of culverts, culverts are completely covered with dirt and other foliage. We have retention ponds that haven't been permitted in ten years. Is that acceptable in the level of service that -- I know you're trying to look forward instead of back, but the public is very concerned that because maintenance -- they can -- there are pictures and videos on a facebook page that the public put together that showed that the maintenance was not done for years. How can the public be certain that the level of service going forward is to follow the plan to do it every seven years and to make sure the maintenance is being done?

John Bennett

11:07:01AM Yeah, thank you for the question. Just to kind of segue off Mr. Campbell just talked about, to try and quantify personnel resources, when he mentioned 3300 hours just for the public's sake, one full-time equivalent is 2080 hours. We're talking about fte and a half based on the 3300 hours. Sounds like a lot of hours but that is one employee and about another half an employee in the aggregate. Back to the question, that's exactly why we put performance management enterprise wise in the city when this administration hit. That's why we have those unique levels of service, public facing, to show the bar graphs and whether we are hitting, exceeding, or below so we all have transparency on that. When I go back and look at the dashboard, they are both in the green for the levels of service as defined by that division. These are the barometrics we try and set. I do look backwards to go forward. As a matter of fact, I ran all of the customer service complaints in stormwater back for the entire time since 2016. And we were averaging about 160 complaints or one every other day, if you average it out over a year, for the first eight years. And then the last two years -- well, since the storms in obviously late '24, that has jumped up to about three a day. People are becoming more keenly aware of the service needs and the responsivity from the stormwater to do --

Bill Carlson

11:08:32AM I'll cut you off so he doesn't cut me off.

John Bennett

11:08:35AM No, that's fine.

Bill Carlson

11:08:38AM Customer complaints, that's going to happen around the times that there is a heavy rain. But the measure, the metrics should be, are the ditches being dug and redug to the industry standard? Do the retention ponds have permits? Are the culverts cleaned out? One of them was full of water weeks after the storm. We have to have a maintenance system like that. Brandon is working on that. We need to be able to tell the public that's our measure going forward because it's not acceptable that all this unexpected flooding is happening. The other thing I want to say before he cuts me off -- oh, going backwards, when the mayor sent that nasty gram a few months ago, she implied that maintenance has been done from 2016 until 2024. But we can see that it wasn't. If somehow she believes that the maintenance was done, I would love to see that because the public has thousands of pictures showing it wasn't done. And I think from where you sit, you want to look forward and make sure we have a seven year plan going forward. I think the public would like to know why wasn't it done during that other period. Before he cuts me off, I want to say, I think we ought to look at each event like a p and l, maybe not the right term, but we need to know the total cost of each event. What are the in-kind services that we're providing for each event. We need to think of them like the social services fund. We're probably in-kind giving a couple million dollars in services a year. That needs to be included in the budget. What is the cost of police, cost of fire, cost of stormwater, and we may be able to use in-house stormwater people to save time. But what should be happening in the accounting is that there is a transfer, if you look at stormwater as an enterprise and look at parades or events as an enterprise, that one enterprise should be paying the other for a service. Now, the transfer from the General Fund probably should go to the parade or event fund and they would turn around and reimburse police and fire and stormwater. But we need to make sure we're not taking that money away. And the amount that we move from the General Fund over to the parades and events, needs to be a robust discussion, just like the money we're giving to nonprofits. Because if a small event is costing the public 500,000 in in-kind services, that is a serious question about whether we should do it. We all like events and having more events activates our city, but we could be spending millions of dollars and we don't know it because of the way it's presented. Thank you.

Alan Clendenin

11:11:15AM Councilman Miranda.

Charlie Miranda

11:11:17AM This is what happens when you leave a city that was cigar makers and american can, and reynolds aluminum, made cans. Majority of people work that. We are a different city. Tourist city now. One of the finest tourist cities in the country. Rank one and two in hotel occupancy? Why? We have events for people to come to. Different factors. Ai, whatever you want to call that thing. All the companies that moved into the east here part of town, you have buildings there that even I want walk around, man, in a different city here. That's what made the youth people come and stay in Tampa. People who lived here, went to college, stayed there. People come to the University of Tampa and they stay here. So we have a city is booming. I always say when I was a kid, we had nothing and everybody was happy. Now we have a hell of a lot more and no one is happy. We have a problem. But when we talk about money, we have to talk about all the money. Not just stormwater. Not just this. When you look at the events that we're paying for other areas and police and fire, nothing to do with stormwater, about $250,000 an event in a certain place. You can challenge me anytime you want. All of you. That's number one. And that's for 30 years. When you look at parking from Kennedy down south, on game day, it's all there. For 30 years. I would imagine that in those two areas alone, looking upward of $150 million that you gave away and no one is talking about that. They are afraid not to get reelected. I ain't afraid to get reelected. [ laughter ] never have been. But I think different than most because I had nothing. And now that I have something, I still have nothing. Because I'm 85 years old. Where am I going with it? But I still have this brain here that memorizes every fact and figure that I look at at times, if I wanted to. That 25, 250,000 and the 2027 will change 500 to 600 thousand because of the cost of operating the police and fire has gone up from 1996 to 2027, and you and I pay for it. You're happy. I'm happy too. You have to have some of these events. If you want to keep the young people here. If you want to keep the city moving forward. There was no hotel here, none. Losing our yankees at the Convention Center. Until it started with one hotel. The marriott. Now it's been there 30 years. That hotel brought five or six. In fact, a five-star hotel. I don't even know a five star general. Only a four star general. Five star hotel in the City of Tampa. You got martinis that cost $20. My suit didn't cost $20. But people drink a martini for $20. That's wonderful. They are paying the sales tax on that also. If you want to look at something, don't just look at stormwater versus this. Look at the whole city, what you're giving away. I'm not afraid to say that. You're giving away more than what you think. I guarantee you, you're giving away a lot more. Remember two words I'll leave you with. Ask you to define it to yourself, not to me. What is a public facility? And I don't want an answer. That's all I'm going to say. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Alan Clendenin

11:15:19AM I think that was two plugs for the marriott waterside hotel today. This commercial endorsement by Tampa City Council paid for by Charlie Miranda. Councilwoman Hurtak.

Lynn Hurtak

11:15:32AM Just listening, I have a couple more questions. If we have double the requests, why haven't we hired more stormwater folks?

John Bennett

11:15:41AM Double the requests for?

Lynn Hurtak

11:15:43AM You said the requests have gone up, basically doubled in the last two years. Why aren't we hiring more stormwater folks?

John Bennett

11:15:49AM I might be confused on what has doubled. The only thing I mentioned doubled was the cost to outsource the service. We don't have double the events.

Lynn Hurtak

11:15:58AM No, we were talking about hours of actual stormwater requests and complaints.

John Bennett

11:16:04AM Oh, no. okay. Yeah, what I did, I looked at two things. I looked at the annual rainfall back to 2016 for the city and broke that down. And, of course, in the recent two years that we look, I mean, it's gone up. It's usually around 50 inches. You go to 80 inches and 55% increase, again, go back to the climate or just the anomaly of what we saw, that has to be folded back into a level of service. So we have a different threat level against our vulnerability. We've got to start thinking differently. If the complaints came in because they were more keenly aware based on what happened and the consequence level of that risk, then that is the responsivity where stormwater comes in. Again, the public, same thing in crime fighting, more people call in, we're more responsive, crime goes down. People call in about ditches, swales, ponds and they are more responsive about what they see and we have a better level of service of maintenance. Without those calls, whether it was the first eight years where somebody was calling in every other day about a stormwater pooling or puddling or maintenance issue or they have increased to what they are, where they are calling three times a day over a year, again, all that could be mapped into data and we could figure out how we meet that. I can't speak to stormwater's need or not need for more service. Of course, we all have the ability to contract out services.

Lynn Hurtak

11:17:38AM Mr. Campbell, I'm basically going to ask you the same question. It sounds like we are -- and people are being more responsive. I know my office is getting a lot more. I think all of our offices are getting a lot more citizen issues around it. Why aren't we hiring more people?

Brandon Campbell

11:17:58AM I would address that by saying in part, the calls are an indicator of the level of interest in the community. That's really the reactive side of what we do. Most of our measures are commitments to levels of service are based on proactive work. So, of course, there is a higher level of interest. That's to be expected, particularly given the historic storm season that we saw last year. On top of that, we are anticipating in the renewal of our Ms 4 permit, an expectation for different levels of service, more frequent service. I think that we will see a need to add to our staff based on that interaction and those requirements that the Florida Department of Environmental Protection will put on the next round of permits for us. We're ready for that. We're ready for that process with FDEP.

Lynn Hurtak

11:18:58AM When does that occur?

Brandon Campbell

11:19:01AM It's anytime. We are toward the end of what would normally be the life cycle of an Ms 4 permit. We respond to them each year with information about what we have done, and they could come to us at any time for expected new set of permit requirements.

Lynn Hurtak

11:19:22AM That's part of what the memo said from Chief Bercaw, during the time frame, the city has stayed in compliance with the obligations to the dep's Ms 4, the municipal separate storm sewer system permit, the four ss. My question was, since we live on a peninsula and because of the hurricanes last year, should our goal be to stay in compliance or to exceed the obligations? And it sounds like the public is saying we need to exceed the obligations. I guess what you're saying is that the Department of Environmental Protection should be coming to us and telling us that soon.

Brandon Campbell

11:20:04AM Yes. I anticipate that coming soon.

Lynn Hurtak

11:20:06AM One last question. What are these new more agile barriers? What do they look like? Can we get a picture? And how do you store them? Like all of that stuff.

John Bennett

11:20:18AM I defer to the Police Department. Certain things technologically, you know, obviously they are going to protect some of that science and the physics, but more nimble, more agile, self-deployed. Come on a trailer. We share the resources but again, certain things we obviously embargo for the sake of that.

Alan Clendenin

11:20:39AM We see a man with a badge and a folder. Department. I think your question about the barriers, more specifically one type of barrier we use is meridian barriers. They are self-deployed. We do put them out -- I mean self-deployed by us. We place them out and they shore up vulnerabilities we have. On top of that, we try to use natural barriers, everything we can to lessen the impact across the entire city when trying to shore up any vulnerabilities during an event.

Lynn Hurtak

11:21:13AM This leads to a question Ms. Scharf and I were heading down to marriott water street yesterday for a meeting. Third mention of that today. We were walking down at the corner of I think it's like platt and Florida. You have all those self-barriers. Why not just put a fence there? Not a full-on fence, but a four-foot fence. Make it permanent and don't have to remove the barriers all the time? Deploying barriers, whether bollards at certain places in the city where our events are occurring. We also get barriers from all over the region, from state, federal, local partners. We go and pick up barriers. They deliver them to us. We store our own barriers within the city. Most of them are deployed even when not at special events. They are deployed throughout the city to shore up vulnerabilities we've seen. We're trying to do everything we can to lessen the impact on the city and other city resources while we are actually increasing the amount of barriers we use in the amount of events that we use them.

11:22:36AM I appreciate that. Obviously, no one here is saying we don't need the barriers. I think that's one thing we're very clear we need them, but how do we get them to you. I appreciate that you're looking at new ways that we could deploy them, make sure -- there's all sorts of new stuff going on. I appreciate that you all are on top of that.

Bill Carlson

11:22:56AM Quick question. Not for the officer. Thank you for coming up. This is more for Mr. Bennett. As I alluded to earlier, you all are -- have tried to do a big reset in stormwater the last year. We can see the responsiveness. We can see the people in the field. The communication department is putting that out so the public can see it. Brandon has been interim. I saw that he has an engineering degree. You and I talked, Mr. Bennett Talked about either splitting mobility and stormwater or some people were saying you are still going to combine them. I don't know what you're Planning on doing in the future -- oh, let me just say. Brandon, yuan, jeff, the whole team, very responsive. Going out, meeting the public. The public doesn't always like the answers but they are meeting with the public, engaging and doing a great job. You are looking for either two people to head those two departments or one person to head both of them. Two questions: one is, engineering degree a requirement? Number two, what is the status?

John Bennett

11:24:12AM Specifically, so I understand, are you talking about the mobility director or the stormwater --

Bill Carlson

11:24:17AM Whoever will be in charge of stormwater. Whether a stormwater person. What I've said before and said to you privately, we have water, which is potable water. We have wastewater, stormwater. They all have a lot of synergies with mobility also, and it seems like maybe there should be an ombudsman that coordinates between the four of them instead of one person in charge of mobility and stormwater. I don't know where you stand on that now, but the public would like -- I think the public would like to know that the person you're going to hire has an engineering degree. So is that a requirement at this time and what is the status of it?

John Bennett

11:24:54AM I know the mayor and Ms. Duncan have been talking about that, about making sure stormwater has -- you know, if it is elevated to its full department within that portfolio. I don't know if Mr. Baird is still here has any insight on that. I'd rather defer to the group that has all the engineers.

Brad Baird

11:25:13AM Brad Baird, deputy administrator of infrastructure. The stormwater was part of the department of sanitary sewers back in the '90s and early 2000s. And then when mayor iorio came in in 2003, she actually made stormwater a separate department. And then later on, that department was combined back with stormwater you and transportation services department as it originally was before it was in the department of sanitary sewers, which was in the department of public works. Quick history lesson.

John Bennett

11:26:01AM I think to the point is --

Bill Carlson

11:26:02AM Maybe you or brad could answer. Is it important that the head of stormwater have a degree that enables them to oversee stormwater, like a civil engineering degree or something like that? For Mr. Bennett, what is the status on hiring someone?

Brad Baird

11:26:19AM The engineering department, it's ideal to have an engineer in charge. Brandon is a professional engineer in charge of mobility, which includes stormwater. But it doesn't have to be. When stormwater was a separate department, the director actually was not an engineer. Ideally, yes.

Bill Carlson

11:26:42AM Thank you.

John Bennett

11:26:44AM To your question on the status of hiring either a mobility director or separating, those conversations are still happening with the mayor and Ms. Duncan. So I can get back to you on timing and whatever the job description changes may be for that portfolio.

Bill Carlson

11:27:01AM Thank you. If there's some way to make it public. As I said, the public likes working with Brandon and yuan and jeff and others. But because we're all not sure if Brandon is still going to be in that positional, the public wants to know who they will be talking to in the next few months.

John Bennett

11:27:20AM Mr. Chairman, I think there are two other points I would like Mr. Campbell to make. One is we were talking on the side a second ago about how often this level of service is audited and also the rating system for our flood. That has gotten improved over time with the city. If you could touch on those two points for the sake of the public.

Brandon Campbell

11:27:40AM Brandon Campbell, interim director of the Mobility department. We talked a little bit about the Ms 4 permit and the program that derives that. That is led by the Florida Department of Environmental Protection. And they do actually audit us every third year. That is their current schedule. I did happen to bring the audit report from the most recent one that was done in July of 2024, and it was reviewing the reporting period of April 1st, 2022, through March 31st of 2023. And there is a lot of detail in it. I don't think it's probably worth your time to go through it here and now. I'm happy to provide the whole report should you wish to see it. We can upload it to onbase. I did want to make sure that you all are aware that we are in compliance in every part of the permit they checked. They do an on-site visit. In the intervening years between the third year audit, they do a desktop review. We submit to them a whole lot of paperwork demonstrating requirements. That does not necessarily answer the question should we go beyond the compliance with the permit requirements, that's, of course, a conversation that we would welcome. But just to assure you all that we are in compliance with those requirements, I did want to bring that. The other thing that Mr. Bennett had mentioned was our community rating system. That is being driven by our stormwater master plan, the effort that you all are updated on quarterly. I believe two weeks ago was the most recent quarterly update. As we develop that master plan for all of our different watersheds around the city, we anticipate seeing a reduction in insurance premiums for flood insurance because of the advancement of our program.

Alan Clendenin

11:29:40AM Thank you, Mr. Campbell. That's going to conclude staff presentation and our discussion on this. We'll move on to public comment. A reminder, cap public comment on item number 64 only to 15 minutes. If you are here to speak on item 64, if you would please line up against the wall to your right, to council's left. Anybody here for 64? I'm going to divide -- you have a maximum of three minutes if we have not that many people. For item number 64. Unless we have too many people, then I'll cut it. Looks like only four. Three minutes each. Mr. Adair, start with your name. I think that there is a lot more progress being made that we shouldn't hear today, a much better conversation that was more informative earlier. I think details matter. I don't get to make motions. But I think that having your community advocates, the staff, and the heads of the departments come up with your questions, have that as its own meeting and then a workshop. We didn't get any new numbers today. I think possibly there is a hope or a thought that the people don't care about the details. But this crowd likes details. In prep for this, I was able to make a video to keep it short. And concise. Ditch? I just don't sell houses. James adair, South Tampa realtor who cares. Move up on the agenda item 64. Make a motion to allow public comment after staff presentation. Little fog after the weekend storm. Pulling leafs off the grates. Parade route runs through this route. Restricted fund, is there comingling of funds, general funds with restricted funds? What is a reasonable threshold of funds that come from the general account to be subtracted from the primary purpose of stormwater? Lighter rate mobile units can replace barriers. How many needed for large events, how many borrowed and how many purchased? Has this option been meaningfully explored? Everybody is waiting to know the answer for is about the apology from Mayor Castor. The answer is not yet. But I think we're getting closer. Still wondering why -- the public requests that I've done is that the data is there. We just need to know to look for the info. I'm still waiting on events -- that should have been done. Should be simple. We need the emergency power to make that happen. My time is done. That contract grater that you approved January 30th, it's finally working. It's nine months.

11:33:09AM Thank you. Ms. Poynor. Stephanie poynor. I want to point this out to you. This is from the department. This is their data. 250 workdays this year if you work for the City of Tampa. Pink Saturday and Sunday. Little dots are federal holidays. But the blacked-out dates are the dates, how much time we had one of our stormwater crews working on nothing but parades and events. So they have lost eight weeks of work this year that they could have been working. I put it all together because it's there. I sent you the data. I'm very, very -- Charlie, oh, my god, Charlie said, did we set up for the football games and hockey games? He didn't say it that way. He asked the question. My question is, is stormwater also doing those? Because that means we've lost additional time. I never heard it before. I heard about TFR being at the stadium. I've heard and seen City Council approve money for TPD to be down in these places, moving people around. And there were no work orders for that, but when Charlie brought it up, it makes a lot of sense. Are they also setting up for football games and hockey games and events at the facilities. If they are not, somebody can tell me. Okay. That's good. Who does it then? Whoever is doing that should be doing these, too. There we go. So when was the last time, and we had 600 pages of fees for the City of Tampa, and none of them said anything about parade fees. None of them said anything about parade fees. How much are the fees? How long not been paid? It's not even really about the money. It's about, oh, my god, what in the hell is going on here? What department is in charge of special events? Who do they apply to, report to? Which facility manager is in charge of that? Which administrator is in charge of that? I don't know. TPD doesn't have the bodies to fund and make sure we get people in the right places that we're all safe but spend $400 million on a frickin' Police Department building. I find it hard to believe, carroll ann Bennett and I started in 2021 telling people South of Gandy to report flooding. To report flooding. To report flooding. I cannot believe that there was never a jump. I want to know where those flood calls went to because we have social media evidence that people were calling and reporting it. Where did it go? If it didn't jump until after the hurricanes this year, where did it go? Where did that data go? I think I hit it all. Thank you.

11:36:10AM Thank you. Next speaker.

11:36:20AM By the way, Charlie, I think you should capture that one video what she said about Charlie Miranda being right. Displayed on loop. In reference to number 64, discussion on whether stormwater monies or staff should be used on parades or special events, no. there is only one interpretation of that. Mr. Bennett might be looking for another one, but there is not. The Florida statute 403.0893 explicitly says -- what? Give me another minute because he interrupted me.

11:37:10AM That was not staff. Planning. Construction, operations, and maintenance of stormwater management system. Not parades, events, not even safety. We all agree that the safety of the community should be top governmental priority. But if city management truly felt that to be true, I would not be here defending this Florida statute and the rights of the neighborhoods to demand their safety against flooding. Most neighborhoods are not asking for a hundred plus million dollars project. They are asking for citywide stormwater cleaning and maintenance of our existing system. If not for the years of neglect, residents would not be in fear of again flooding. Neighborhoods need all hands on deck 12 months of the year. Not only may through September, that's hurricane time, but because stormwater crew are pulled from October through April doing other things. The success of the city improvement projects is maintenance. The solution to our stormwater drainage problem is cleaning. On Tuesday -- I hope you have the right picture -- December 2nd, we had rain for less than an hour. And I have pictures of flooding on dale mabry. Shows flooding areas on dale mabry and Henderson. Dale mabry and neptune. And these city improvements were done in 2019. Every new project has to be tied into the existing system. I'm going to talk about Palma Ceia Pines. There are two facts that will affect flooding in that area. The new stormwater system project on Kennedy will allow more runoff from Kennedy with the addition of new pavement graded for drainage into that area. Number two, new inlets and drainage pipes will connect to system in Palma Ceia Pines as of November 18, 2025, there are areas that need cleaning. There's asphalt in the drains and debris and still debris in the ponds. Palma Ceia Pines needs to be addressed first. This piece of paper is a permit that says those pumps need to be done daily, not yearly, weekly, daily.

11:39:44AM That's it. [ sounding gavel ] thank you. I love you all.

11:39:51AM We care for you. Tarah Bluma. I wanted to talk about some of the things that were said in your presentation a minute ago that were deeply concerning to me. Interim director stated that the stormwater season in Tampa starts -- Labor Day. That can lead into the most busy time for our hurricane season. That's deeply concerning to me. It's also concerning to me that I'm looking at the stormwater quarterly report that was submitted on October 6th for September in the previous quarter. I also just looked at the most recent monthly report. None of those mentioned that stormwater had gone back down to five days a week. They are in front of you a lot now reporting on their activities. That is a pretty significant decrease in what -- just of what they have been telling you. I'm wondering why that information hasn't been shared with the public. On the parades -- sorry, I lost my train of thought. Of course, we shouldn't be spending any stormwater money on parades. I'm concerned that the numbers that they gave you are inaccurate, because how do they know that? Where is the reimbursement resolution that shows that money coming from the General Fund back into stormwater? That was a pretty clever web of words they said, well, we gave you extra General Fund monies, we'll pull money out of that pot and all going to kind of work out the same. For the parades, who is deciding who gets to have a parade? Who gets to have some of the costs shared with the City of Tampa versus who has to pay full price for the parades? Is there a committee making this decision? Is this an administrator? And is there a budget? Do they run out of money at some point and say, okay, the rest of the parades for the year are full price? I've never seen any data of that and I don't know if that exists. I would be interested in asking that question, too. Thank you.

11:42:23AM Thank you. Steve Michelini will be the last person to speak on item 64. Maintenance is the key here. It always has been. And getting that information out and getting those crews working and council asked the appropriate question, how many crews are out there and how are they working. If we don't get maintenance under control, there is no capital project that can make up for it. You can't bypass the existing system without doing the maintenance first. The second part of that is the distribution of salaries and admin costs versus the amount of money going into actual crews that are working in the field. Those are two critical elements and council as well as the public will be examining that, looking at it, bringing it to your attention frequently when these issues come before you for budget amendments. Get on the maintenance side, make that the first priority. The capital projects, they are not needed, certainly not in the hundred million dollars range, not needed, instead of repairs, repairs and maintenance should be the first priority. Anyway, I'll defer and allow my friend over here to speak.

11:43:47AM Need a motion to waive the rules to exceed 15 minutes. Motion from Councilwoman Hurtak. A second from Councilman Maniscalco.

Bill Carlson

11:43:55AM -- allow the final two speakers.

Alan Clendenin

11:43:59AM We have a motion and second. All in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. Liz. I'll be very quick because I actually want to speak in public comment. I'm not here for this. But I want to clarify to the people listening at home that I understand that it's okay for the people of Palma Ceia Pines and the stormwater fee is not -- that is a part of our project is not going to be affected at all by item 64's money. For people listening at home, I personally am okay and I'm not speaking for my community because I don't have that right, but I personally am okay with item 64. I trust the Stormwater Department to know how to use the funds. When the Stormwater Department comes before council and says we need this money to relieve the flooding in those neighborhoods, I expect you to listen to them because they are engineers. If the Stormwater Department comes and says we would like to use this money for this, then I also respect them. So I support 64 personally. I hope that this is not a distraction tactic, trying to take the argument away from what I will be speaking about next. Thank you so much.

11:45:15AM Thank you, liz. Anybody else want to speak on item 64? Hearing none that will conclude item 64. We will continue on with our agenda. Councilwoman Hurtak.

Lynn Hurtak

11:45:26AM I'll just say I do have some motions that I'll do later surrounding some of the questions that we had today.

Alan Clendenin

11:45:32AM Okay. Just fyi, it is 11:46. We are going to break for lunch at noon, which means we'll only have a few speakers and then break for lunch because we have time certains at 1:30 and then public hearings. We have a lot of stuff happening. We'll allow a few public speakers, but then we're going to break for lunch and only have one hour for lunch today. From noon to 1:00. Mr. Shelby, would you like to read your --

Lynn Hurtak

11:46:00AM Can't we do 12:30? If we have to be here at 1:30, then let's listen until 12:30.

Alan Clendenin

11:46:14AM We have an hour and a half of public comment.

Martin Shelby

11:46:20AM Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Martin Shelby, City Council attorney. Members of the public, the comments for decorum of today's meeting, members of the public are allowed a reasonable opportunity to address any item on the agenda before City Council takes official action on an item. If you are here to speak under general public comment, then you will have had the opportunity to fill out the speaker comment cards at the entrance to the chambers. One comment card per speaker. Cards are accepted until the start of general public comment. Each person will be recognized by name to approach and speak. Per council's rules, preference are given to those speakers who speak on agenda items. A three-minute time limit applies. Please print legibly because names that cannot be read will not be called. If you are here to speak on an item that is set for a public hearing on the agenda, it's noted as to being a public hearing, please use the sign-in sheet instead. Please remember that speakers and members of the public are reminded to refrain from disruptive behavior, including making vulgar or threatening remarks or making or causing disruptive noises or sounds or displaying signs or displaying graphics. The Chair Will rule out of order any person who speaks without being recognized or attempts to address the council from outside the speaker area at the podium. Persons failing to comply with council rules may also be ruled out of order, and at the discretion of the chair may be removed from the chambers for the remainder of today's meeting. Now, if you are here to speak on consent items or staff reports, the time to speak is at general public comment. This is your opportunity to let City Council Know your position. Finally, City Council members are reminded to refrain from engaging a speaker during public comment and the public should be aware that City Council does not take questions or have a dialogue during general public comment. Thank you.

Alan Clendenin

11:48:26AM Councilwoman Hurtak.

Lynn Hurtak

11:48:27AM I make a motion that we go to 12:30 and come back at 1:30.

Alan Clendenin

11:48:32AM Motion from Councilwoman Hurtak. Second from Councilman Carlson. All those in favor? Opposed? Nay. Ayes have it.

The clerk

11:48:40AM Motion carried with Clendenin voting no.

Alan Clendenin

11:48:42AM We'll go until 12:30 and take a break from 12:30 to 1:30. Just so you all know, we have probably about an hour and a half of public comment. If you are not here to speak on an agenda item, it probably won't be heard until after lunch. Call the people on the agenda items first. Calista snider. Followed by -- [indiscernible] start with your name and you have three minutes. Good morning, councilors. Here to speak on behalf of agenda item 52. I graduated from USF with my degree in biology. I'm sure my disappointment with this voting item is no surprise. USF has consistently tried to develop the land in and around the USF forest preserve, a vital piece of greenspace in Temple Terrace which is vanishing every day. The forest preserve offers students --

Martin Shelby

11:49:44AM Sorry to interrupt. Item 52 is a public hearing. Therefore --

11:49:54AM Understood. It is a legislative matter. What's council's pleasure? Only if it is legislative, not a quasi-judicial matter.

Alan Clendenin

11:50:04AM Continue. The website said 10:30. I got here at 8:45. So, yeah. The forest preserve offers students, neighbors, and community members a place to go and enjoy some of the beautiful natural spaces and species that Florida has to offer. USF, of course, wants to bulldoze this for another boring, same old shopping district that we just do not need. Hundreds of people rallied against their petitions to develop the forest preserve and they backed off. Then USF snuck in a meeting I think to the Planning Commission a couple of years ago to develop the parcel that we're talking about today. Luckily, the community was able to quickly rally and almost two dozen speakers, again, on short notice, showed up to that meeting and absolutely no one spoke in favor of this development. USF claims the land cost them hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to maintain, my ask is, why not leave it green? Why not let nature fully reclaim it as already seeing. Why not the land formally known -- true buffer zone between the forest preserve and the city and not the shoddy half-baked attempt at a buffer they included in this plan. City Council, the members of your community have come out against these plans numerous times. I'm done trying to convince USF the right thing to do, but I am sure you will see how your voters want this to go and not just the money that USF and developers want. People want natural land. Florida is beautiful. People come here for our natural land and we're eating it up which chipotles and crumbles and other stuff people don't need. Nobody wants a hotel. Nobody wants another hotel on USF land or another shopping district or another restaurant. We need greenspace. People have come out time and time again to tell USF this, and they just won't listen. I'm asking you today to please listen. Thank you.

11:52:06AM Just because I know there are probably other people out here talking about 52. It's about the stadium area on USF. Fyi. Carolina gutfreund. Thank you for the opportunity to speak today. We're talking about agenda item 52. In the amendment setting, it says this property includes the USF golf course, the USF forest preserve and extends to the side of North Fletcher Avenue with approximately the same depth as the golf course and include the USF riverfront park bounded on the east side of the Hillsborough River property. This directly contradicts the statements that USF has put out as they say that the fletcher district project does not include the development of the U.S. forest preserve, but the amendment setting document does include this. I think that's contradictory and should be explained better either by the university or by the City Council because if this is passed, it will be passed with the verbiage that's in the amendment setting which, again, contradicts what USF has been telling the public. We aim to oppose the construction of a mixed use development in the USF golf course. The claw borders USF forest preserve and the construction would disrupt the habitats. With the increase in noise, light pollution and degradation of the borders of their habitat, we would be failing to protect these species which are protected under the migratory bird act. Although USF plans a buffer zone, it will not be enough to prevent invasive species, domestic predators like cats, dogs, chemical runoff from entering the forest preserve. Forest preserve also experiences prescribed burns and this smoke would dissipate into the new development. Again, it is unclear whether or not this construction will take place in the USF forest preserve, and we also strongly oppose any construction in the USF forest preserve, the riverfront park and along the bank of the Hillsborough River. Besides environmental impacts, roads surrounding this development are run-down and not equipped. The nearest bust stop, decommissioned over two years, so will increase strain on the roads and make it less accessible for students to access these spaces. As a USF student and a representative of the cleo institute, I know we need more greenspaces. The claw has been -- since its shutdown in 2023 and biodiversity has increased. By beginning construction now, we are destroying all the progress in the last two three years. Instead the land should be allowed to be natural and act as recreation space for students. We believe the claw should not be developed and returned to nature. Thank you for your time.

11:55:04AM Everybody made Mr. Shelby sound right. If we heard the case before coming up, you would hear what 52 was. Lori singleton. Randy Jackson.

Bill Carlson

11:55:25AM To your point, though, if we're going to hear testimony on that, the public should hear at least some brief on what it is we're doing today, because we're not approving the project. The city has no jurisdiction.

Martin Shelby

11:55:42AM It is on for a public hearing. And you don't know the process. There is an advantage to taking things during a public hearing. I know we're wasting time. For every time we waste, we waste more time correcting the wasting time. Please allow me to speak. It is appropriate, council, you waived your rules, and by council's actions created the process you are now in. The thing we can do is work through that process. My recommendation is to stay by the rules from this point forward.

Alan Clendenin

11:56:18AM Proven right, Mr. Shelby. Lori. Start with your name. Palma Ceia Pines resident. I'm here to ask for your support of the Howard Avenue flood relief project. First of all, I have to thank each and every one of you, even if you don't agree with me, for your service on the Tampa City Council, especially you, Mr. Miranda, because I know that you have supported Tampa Fire Department throughout your career. I am a retired City of Tampa firefighter. I can't fail to acknowledge that it's been your role, the role of Tampa City Council, that allowed me to purchase a home in the first place. So thank you for that. I was born -- I was born in Tampa, Florida. I grew up in lutz. As an adult, I chose to live in South Tampa. I've lived there probably since about the late '80s. Bought a home in 2002 in Palma Ceia Pines, which, by the way, I just found out about a year ago that is the name of my neighborhood. I purchased a home in 2002. Unfortunately, as you all know, we experienced a significant flooding event last year. As a retired firefighter as well as a long-term resident of South Tampa, I understand the gist of what South Tampa is. We're near water. I've seen flooding throughout my time there. I've seen jet skis being ridden down Bayshore Boulevard. I understand the risks of living in South Tampa. But this wasn't a flooding event. This was a drainage event. This was a lack of infrastructure that is servicing my home. I'm here simply to ask that you give us some relief from the flooding. I don't want to have to deal with flooding again. And I understand it's coupled with there's necessary maintenance but also needs to be improvement to the infrastructure in an area that has wildly developed over the last ten years. I'm just asking for your support. I don't want to flood again. Again, I thank each and every one of you for your time and for considering us. Thank you.

11:58:39AM Thank you, lori. Randy Jackson followed by Danielle garcia. Randy Jackson was here for item 4. He's here for reappointment. He had to step out because he had other commitment issues. He said he's happy to come back if City Council wants to hear from him.

11:59:00AM Very good. Danielle garcia followed by Stephen Michelini. Danielle garcia. No. Steve Michelini. Followed by carroll ann Bennett. Lunch.

11:59:21AM Okay. I will throw you in the back of the pile. Carroll ann Bennett, followed by James adair. James adair still here?

11:59:31AM Followed by eric garduno. Start with your name, please. I am speaking on item 63. I agree, we should change the code and eliminate condition one, the sidewalk exemption, but we don't have to. Exemption one is if there is no existing sidewalk and it is unlikely that there will be additional development nearby. It is 100% the city's discretion what development nearby means. The city interprets this. There is no state law defining development nearby. The reality is there is nowhere in the city where it is unlikely to have development nearby. This is the city's map of current permits. Every request can be denied under the current code, and it should be denied. We were told we closed this loophole. We were told the city would not require existing sidewalk. We were told it was only retained to allow for some flexibility, but it would no longer be used routinely. It would be used rarely. But in reality, it is used more than the other three excuses combined. It is 100% subjective and the most easily denied excuse, builders are exploiting it and the city is allowing it. This is from the city's own records. The city told me that they look at active building permits in the area and whether multiple building projects are occurring simultaneously. They do not quantify this vague criteria, and that guarantees no consistency or predictability. What is the area? Is it next door? A mile away? Two miles away? How many active building permits? One permit? Ten permits? And why do they need multiple building projects occurring simultaneously? That's not in the code. How many is multiple? Two projects, ten projects? This code is supposed to provide a long-range, big-picture plan to create sidewalks over time. Simultaneously is the most short-term, small-picture plan possible. The city is choosing to produce less sidewalk. Tampa either has a goal of more sidewalks or a goal of less sidewalks. They will achieve the goal they choose. Please make changes for more sidewalks and eliminate anything that means less sidewalks. I want to demonstrate how much confusion there is on how to implement this. This red, this red, and this red are being built right now today. All three of them are simultaneously being political. These two ask for an exemption because there's no existing sidewalk and there's no building nearby. It was approved. There's three of them being built at the same time. This one was built last year. I just want to point out, talk about long-term consequences, no sidewalk, no fee. No sidewalk, no fee. No sidewalk no fee. No sidewalk, no fee. No sidewalk, no fee. All the blue were built in the last ten years.

12:02:58PM Eric garduno, followed by dick powers. Thank you for the opportunity to speak. I'm speaking regarding specifically the mobility fees being discussed in item number 56. On behalf of the bay area apartment association, we certainly support the conversations that have been had thus far about bringing in the impact fees over the course of several years, sort of phasing them in. That said, we do have some concerns about the calculation of the maximum impact fees that were presented in the report. I have some documents here. We sent you all a letter earlier that sort of walks through some of the documents with links to those documents. But go through this real quick. In the Tampa mobility fee study, it specifically indicates the legislative framework. Requirements that the fee has to abide by. One of those requirements is to ensure that the calculation utilizes the most recent and localized data available within four years. So that is state law requirement. The data utilized in the report, to calculate the fee, complicated fee, a lot of different elements that go into it. One of the elements we identified, trip factor set at 1.69. That number is used to calculate every mobility fee indicated in the new report. So that's where it's set out in the current report. Now, that report draws from Florida Department of Transportation report to identify what that -- to come up with the 1.69. That 1.69 is listed here under 2018. But as we noted a moment ago, the requirement to have the most recent and localized data. So in that same report, right next to it is a 1.4 number from a 2020 study that Hillsborough county used for their mobility fee. And this is the report itself. The mobility fee study from Hillsborough county, where they use the person trip factor of 1.4 to calculate their fees. Now, again, as noted, kind of hard to see, but every number in the Tampa fee study is 1.69 to calculate the fee. We posit that the most recent and localized data is actually Hillsborough county study that used 1.4. If you compare what you can get out of 1.69 versus 1.4, you're going to see a big difference on every one of those items. The first, these are three items straight out of the central business district section. You can see multifamily, that first line is what's in the report. The second line is utilizing the 1.4. You got $450 difference. You go to the other different line items I have listed here, single-family, a thousand -- over a thousand dollars. Hotel, over $1500 difference. From our standpoint, we believe that the fees as currently calculated, overestimate the cost.

12:06:12PM Dick powers, are you in the room? Just making sure. Carlos de laguardia and then online. Carlos.

12:06:41PM Go ahead. That the Planned Development of the claw, which has already been essentially dilapidated for several years now and reclaimed by nature, dangerously close to the forest preserve and any sort of development of this would begin to encroach on the buffer zone that this forest preserve needs between it and the city. And when this had come to hearing a couple of years ago, it was talked down by members of the local community because nobody supports this. The infrastructure around there is poorly developed. It wouldn't be able to support more of this. The last thing Tampa needs is more traffic. And just within the university and Temple Terrace area, there is a lot of sort of sparsely developed empty parking lots and strip malls and stuff that could be better utilized than a sorely needed greenspace in a city that's rapidly running out of it. That's all I got.

12:08:04PM Very good. Thank you. Michael randolph. Good afternoon.

12:08:16PM Good afternoon, Michael. Thank you for being patient. It's been a long day. Thank you very much. So over the last three months, we explained how artificial intelligence can empower residents in underserved communities, giving them tools to increase income and expand opportunities. This week, we shift from our focus to three. Examine how decentralized technology can support community development, low income communities have traditionally been denied access to -- three connects to a modernized version, unity, self-determination, connective working opportunity -- what is the web 3? It is a new kind of internet technology that can change how money, power and ownership works in our community. Stead of depending on banks, government -- which often leave low-income neighborhoods, web 3 lets people join together to make decisions to share resources together. -- give people safe ways to save and spend money without banks. Web 3 lending platform let people borrow money without credit scores, opening doors to those once closed out. Building community wealth. Collaborative powers by web 3 allow residents to earn income together through shared online businesses. This means wealth stays in the community. By opening access to money, home ownership -- we can keep -- I messed up on that. I just want to say this is a game changer. It combines both artificial intelligence and web 3 to increase economic opportunities in poor communities. Thank you very much.

12:10:54PM Thank you, Michael. Appreciate it. Now we're moving on to ashley morrow, followed by daphney. Ashley morrow. I will be sharing Tampa's black history. I've been here on thursdays sharing documented history about Tampa, particularly the stories that have been overlooked, misunderstood or replaced with myths. Today's presentation walks through Tampa during the Civil War and answers one important question, where were black people in Tampa during that time? The archival records show several key facts. Tampa sided with the confederacy early and decisions were made by local delegates shaped -- decisions made -- sorry -- the decisions made by local delegates shaped how the war unfolded here. Fort brooke union forces. Black residents were primarily creating a church which was mount sinai, ame zion church. They escaped to egmont key via the union boats. Many were forced to continue laboring on the salt works. Union soldiers had a plan. They were going to help enclaved people and white refugees get to egmont key. They destroyed many of the saltworks where enslaved labor was still working and stop the cattle drive and destroy the railroads in the central areas of Florida. Here are two dots. One located at cypress point park and there was a lesley saltworks over there by the alafia river, near the mouth of the alafia river. And there were more in the Tampa Bay area as well. Next what you are seeing, finally, widespread repeated stories such as eight union soldiers being marched into Tampa as prisoners by Robles. There is a story out there basically that he took them hostage and marched them into Tampa. That is false according to records, documentation, that seaman Frances operating outside his post. Captured and taken to brooksville. That is still kind of a -- and today -- here, if you want to look back at it later, blow it up for those looking at home. You can pause it if you would like. But this is just a marker still there today. But it is incorrect. Moving right along. Next, finally, I want to introduce Ms. Daphney Towns. She is one of the organizers of the black to Angola festival. Her people came out of the Bahamas. The people when they left Angola, I think 1821, about 90 something -- 87 escaped to the Bahamas. And she is a direct descendant of Angola. She's going to share about her event.

12:14:10PM Ms. Towns. And audience. It is a privilege to be here. My name is daphney towns. I was born in new providence, commonwealth of the Bahamas. And I am a proud descendant of the Angola maroon community. I'll read it so I can be out of your way fast. I live in bradenton, Florida and have been a resident in america for the past 33 years. I currently serve as the president of the oak tree community outreach INC., the organizers that are behind the back to Angola festival. It is an honor to share with you the purpose and significance of our upcoming event. Our festival is rooted in a powerful yet often overlooked chapter of Florida's history. The story of the Angola community. Between 1812 and 1821, Angola was a thriving maroon settlement located in what is now bradenton. It was the home of formerly enslaved africans who escaped bondage and built independent lives in alliance with the seminole people. Angola represent a community of strength and self-determination. Although the settlement was destroyed, its story did not end there. Some survivors made a courageous journey across the seas and ended up in andres island in the Bahamas. That's where my mother was born. That's how I got involved. They rebuild their lives, preserve their culture and passed their tradition down to generations. Today, the descendants of that community known as red bay, continue to carry on the living legacy of Angola. The Angola festival, I created this festival, so that we would honor the journey, but it is more than a cultural event. It is a homecoming. When you go to family reunion, it's homecoming. So we reconnect Florida and the Bahamas through shared history. Celebrate a legacy of strength and brings deserved recognition to a chapter of history that has shaped our region. I remember, I was born in '62 and my daddy was working in the contract in sarasota, Florida. Imagine that. I'm in the Bahamas and my daddy comes to sarasota, oh, my god, when he came back, we were the richest children on the block. Suitcases, suitcases of goods. So I remember those good days of the contract. The festival highlights art, history, genealogy, cultural exchange and community unity. It brings back economic activity, educational value, and cultural enrichment to the Tampa Bay region. Most importantly, it brings the story of Angola back to the land where it all begun.

12:17:23PM Thank you, daphney.

12:17:26PM Thank you. We're happy to have you. David coronel followed by steven. My name is David coronel. Councilman Maniscalco, this is dedicated to you. Two and a half minute presentation. [ captioned video ]

12:20:35PM Thank you, Sir. Steve gerrish followed by elizabeth dinwiddie. Good to see all your faces again. It's been a minute. I wanted to also welcome Councilwoman Young. Thank you for stepping up under such difficult and tragic circumstances. Just to kind of brief you and bring you up to speed, about a year ago, there were a lot of very contentious meeting about the South Howard flood relief project. The neighborhood where I live, Parkland Estates, Palma Ceia Pines, hundreds of businesses and homes were flooded because of milton. Not really because of milton, because of a city infrastructure problem, the drains are inadequate. None about over a decade. Nothing has been done. Every summer, thunderstorms completely flood the streets. People can't get in and out of their homes. Emergency vehicles stall out. Can't get to people if they need it. So finally, it all came to a head with milton and multiple homes and businesses flooded. Finally, this plan that had been worked on for years was finally set in motion and voted to move forward last year. I want to be here today just to reiterate how important this project is. This summer was particularly dry. There were no hurricanes. There was hardly any rain. So it may seem like the problem is no longer existent, but let me assure you it very much is. Just two days ago, we had rain for 15 minutes and my street was a river. The problem very much still exists. Swann Avenue was a river from memorial hospital all the way down to Wilson middle school. This problem still exists. A lot of people are telling you it's only maintenance. We just need to maintain. That's not true. All summer and the beginning of the fall, there were these huge vacuum trucks all over my neighborhood sucking out debris from all the storm drains. Two days ago, flooding again. It's not just a maintenance issue. The pipes are too small. Lack the capacity to handle the water that comes into our neighborhood. We need a permanent solution. Please continue to support the South Howard flood relief project. Thank you.

12:23:01PM Thank you, Steve. Elizabeth dinwiddie. Followed by Aileen Henderson. Elizabeth dinwiddie, also known as liz arcody, my married name. I agree with everything my neighborhood said, Steve garish. I'm here in support of the South Howard flood relief project. Mostly I'm in support of the engineers who are working on the South Howard flood relief project. I believe that people have training. If you need a surgery, you don't call your accountant. And so our city needs a surgery. We need the streets opened up, so we need engineers. So if you are not an engineer, I really don't think that you should try to suggest how to solve the problem. A lake forms on mount South Tampa. This is the highest point of South Tampa below Kennedy, and it's a mile in from stormwater surge issues. It is the highest point. So there shouldn't be a lake there. The reason there is a lake there, is because of development in the area. There used to be small homes there, and now there are tons of town houses. I bought one. So I would like to ask that you do not put South Howard flood relief project in your vote on December 18 because I have spoken with the engineers. And whether or not that happens, it does not stop the South Howard flood relief project. That's just some road paving and some pipe work that is kind of being nice to South Howard. But the pipes themselves for the relief of our neighborhoods is not going to be stopped by that project. So I'm fine with that wording of South Howard flood relief not being in that. And I would prefer that it's not in that, so that we have full council support, because I understand not everyone is supporting the project on the council, which I hope changes. I would love to have a group hug at the end of all this. My other point, this is not strictly a maintenance problem, and the opposition to this project would like for public understanding to be that this is a maintenance issue. And that is only a small part of this project. Basically, there is a tub of water. If you call it maintenance, it's like scooping out like a cup of the water. We need the drain of the tub to get the water out. And the only way for that to happen is according to the engineers is by putting in this major pipe system that also will eventually in future years connect to other systems in our city. So I really just beg you to please continue supporting this project because it has devastated people and it will devastate people again, if not --

12:26:17PM Aileen Henderson followed by pam cannella. Is pam still here? Aileen Henderson will be the last speaker before our lunch break.

12:26:38PM Start with your name. We'll grab them. I was going to say good morning, but are we still -- I don't even know where we are at.

12:26:48PM We are in afternoon. I didn't even know. My appearance here today began when I attempted to appeal the parcel split approval at 3203 West Saint John Street. It began when the city clerk's office informed me in writing, it appears you do not meet the criteria for aggrieved party. A legal conclusion issued with no criteria, no interpretation, and no explanation, even after multiple attempts to obtain clarity. And it came with a rigid December 4 today, 2025, deadline, that offered no realistic opportunity to appear before this council within the required 14 days as last Thursday was thanksgiving and today is the first meeting since the decision. Yet the city was fully prepared to accept a non-refundable, $2,000 fee so I could find out whether I was even allowed to file an appeal. This is not a clerical oversight. This is systemic failure. One that restricted the public while the applicant received guidance, direct communication, and extensions. More than 80 residents submitted written opposition, and there was only one in favor. The 80 plus residents received no comparable consideration. And for the record, in 2021, the city denied a nearly identical request for the same parcel. That denial issued by the same review manager involved in 2025 cited Florida burial protection statutes, the historic cemetery context, and the requirement that all parties be in agreement before development. In 2024, prospective buyers conducted a ground penetrating radar scan of the parcel we're talking about as suggested by council. 78 anomalies consistent with burials were found on the parcel. Those buyers withdrew immediately. USF archives document decades of mismanagement at marti-colon boundary violations, missing records and relocated that moved head stones and not bodies. We have historic buried records, statutory protections, a prior denial, and evidence of potential burials, none of which were meaningfully addressed in the 2025 approval. These are not emotional opinions. These are documented facts. I understand the limitations surrounding private property, but you can't act when procedure breaks down and when a process fails, the legislative branch must intervene and restore public trust. I need two things. An administrative stay so nothing more can move forward until this is investigated and a formal procedure review, why the 2021 denial and burial statutes were disregarded. Why the public received no meaningful communication, why the not aggrieved statement was issued -- please, just three seconds, without explanation and whether the approval aligns with the city's legal and ethical obligations.

12:29:47PM Thank you. Tampa's historic cemetery, justice denied becomes history erased.

12:29:56PM Thank you. Appreciate it. It is 12:30. As agreed, we'll do lunch. Only one hour. 1:30 council Will reconvene. Please be here and ready to do business at 1:30. [Lunch recess]

01:34:31PM Welcome back to Tampa City Council. We are just buzzing along at 1:34 p.m., and now to public comment. I call this meeting to order.

Charlie Miranda

01:34:41PM Here.

Guido Maniscalco

01:34:42PM Here.

Lynn Hurtak

01:34:42PM Here.

Naya Young

01:34:43PM Here.

Alan Clendenin

01:34:47PM Here.

Clerk

01:34:49PM We have a quorum.

Alan Clendenin

01:34:57PM Continue with public comment. Pamela canella, Megan luca. Followed by Reverend Williams. I don't think he is here either. Next speaker will be connie burton. Start with your name, and you will have three minutes. Thank you for being patient. My name is Megan peak luca, and I'm here today to make sure our mercifully quiet 2025 storm season has not lulled this council into thinking you have more time for audits, investigations, or whatever it may be to fix the flooding problem in Palma Ceia Pines and Parkland Estates. 2025 was the first storm season in ten years that Florida did not have a named storm make landfall. The year before that, we had two named storms hit Tampa head-on. The weather is not predictable, but statistically speaking, we know the storms are coming. Indeed, as you heard on Tuesday of this week, it rained hard for 15 minutes in my neighborhood. And as a result, I could swim LAPs down lakeview. This is not a maintenance problem. The councils before you prioritized building growth while ignoring the need to also grow the infrastructure necessary to support it. It is not something that we fix by permitting the retention ponds and doing maintenance. Those things need to be done. Please, don't get me wrong, but this is an infrastructure problem. Our population have exploded. Amount of concrete. Our storm systems. Our infrastructure cannot support what we are dealing with now. Prior councils have allowed the problem to fester. And now it has become your problem. And that means you get to be the heroes. You get to be the ones to say, enough is enough, and we are fixing it. The floods are not going away. And unless you improve the infrastructure, the damage they cause is not going away. And I came back after lunch just to make sure that you all know that until you fix it, the victims of the flooding, we aren't going away either. Thank you.

01:37:18PM Thank you very much. Let's see. Reverend Williams. I do not see Reverend Williams in the audience. Connie burton. I don't see connie. Tara Bluma. Tara, no? Robin Lockett, not here. Julia magill followed by mentesnot.

Luis Viera

01:37:38PM At 3:05, I have to escape with my aide to pick up toys for the sensory-friendly santa thing we do. About 20 minutes. For the public and everybody, 20, 25 minutes.

Alan Clendenin

01:37:57PM Start with your name, and you have three minutes. I am coming to you to complain about the mayor's office and Contract Administration on how they dealt with the bid for the Ballast Point pier. I wanted to make a bid on that pier. I went over there, and there was ellison construction signs up for months -- I am talking months back before this bid ever got put out. I question that. I was given the excuse that, oh, well, one of our other contractors, who happened to be trident marine, was actually friends of ellison construction just happened to have ellison construction signs in their truck, and we had to use those because of the verbiage. The verbiage was "it's a felony if another contractor set foot on that pier." So I want to know how ellison construction was given that right. I also want to state that there were also no trespassing signs at Ballast Point park from the Parks Department. I called the Police Department because I was told by the city, the Police Department wanted certain verbiage on there. That was not true. That was a lie. About two weeks after I visited, I called -- I e-mailed the mayor's office. They actually met me at the pier, but they couldn't unlock the locks because they didn't have the keys. They didn't know the combinations because they were probably ellison construction's. So I ended up climbing over a wall, climbing over a fence to get on the pier to see the conditions which, at this point, was I think valued at $14 million to $17 million. As a contractor, no way. Absolutely no way does it cost that much to rehab that pier. So after all those episodes, I came to a prebid conference right here, and it was basically a joke. And I am being literal about that because the man headed it stood up here and told jokes. It was a complete waste of time. And I just have a feeling this is the good ol' boys club coming back to Tampa because I am a contractor. I actually tried to put the bid in. They direct to you a site called "demand star," which handles all the paperwork for the bid. I filled all that paperwork out, and I sent it in and find out, well, the city has a different form. So I missed that opportunity sending my bid in. Not to mention when I did meet the city at the pier, they asked me about the bid process. And I said, well, it is not -- it is very complicated with all this solicitations for SLBEs. If you don't know what it is. You can look it up. It is awful. They told me we are not doing that anymore. I put it on every single form for my bid. I want to know answers and why ellison was given that right. It is not right. It is not fair. And takes other contractors out of the bid process. Thank you.

01:41:00PM Thank you. Mentesnot. Uhuru. I want to say uhuru because it means freedom in swahili, and we as african people should always be thinking of our freedom. Michael friedman, Steve o'brake, mary o'connor, keith o'connor, bob buckhorn. Who has $1 million in their campaign fund and don't even have an opponent. It is a crooked city. The developers know who to throw money to. I am not here to talk about that here though. I'm here to talk about if anyone would know how nathaniel bacon, James Wilson, chief justice roger taney, Robert E. Lee, Jefferson Davis, king leopold, Margaret sanger, bill connor, and George wallace -- how they would feel if a black man conspired to have them arrested, have them put in chains, and drug across the floor. I understand fully how Donald Trump feels to have a black lady bring charges against him and make him come to atlanta, Georgia and get a mugshot. And ever since then, it drove him crazy. You thought he was crazy then, it drove him crazier, to be correct. Saying black people eating dogs. We eating cats. We are animals. We are criminals. We are low lifes. We need to go to Somalia and community ain't nothing. They need to go back where they came from. Uncivilized society. I understand just how that man feel. You know why? Because those particular people that I named have a certain kind of philosophy, ideology, dogmatic way of thinking about black skin, about the african. A genocidal way of thinking about the african. So I know how they feel. So how do you think I feel when a conspiracy to have me arrested and drug across this floor by white -- you.

01:43:56PM Sir, you are out of order. Please leave the chamber. Chagret doss. Chris Martinez. Steve Michelini, followed by Stephanie poynor. No? Stephanie poynor. It's not going to happen again. This is the first. We haven't even gotten to number 4 yet. I am worried of the board appointments and how many are expired already and reappointing somebody and that confused me. Number 32, why do we continue with infill building being single-family detached. We need to be building the missing middle. It should be code that if somebody gets a free lot from the City of Tampa, it should be multifamily up to four units, however that works out. Then that way you can at least put two people on it instead of one. Two families. I just don't understand why we are not doing missing middle here. Multimodal fees, yes, of course. Sidewalks need to be installed everywhere. Just like carroll ann said. I am befuddled at how this works. How in the world in the City of Tampa do you get 12 weeks paid leave before you get fired. How do you get 12 weeks? The man made $171,000 a year. And when Mr. O'connor got sent home for getting in trouble, he still got paid for 12 weeks. How many A.D.A. Swings is that? How many people can we employ. How many young people can we employ during the summer with that kind of money. That is $40,000. That is a lot of money. I mean, seriously. Why would we give somebody leave with pay. You know what, if he was completely absolved, and he came back to work and he got his job back, good on him. You give him his back pay. But why in the hell was he paid when he wasn't working. That is a paid vacation to me. I never had a paid vacation. How does that work? 12 freaking weeks. We paid him to do nothing but sit home! And on top of that, he stole some woman's child support. That's wrong. That is somebody's child doing without because he wants to do shady --

01:46:53PM Thank you. That concludes public comment. That's it because a lot of people didn't show up and come back from lunch. We will go to number 4. I want to fill you in on some of the discussions I had about board appointments. We have a lot of council board appointments that are expired or vacant. I set up meetings with the clerk's office and other associates and other interested parties. We will meet in January to come up with a better process of filling these positions and giving details and information so that we have a more active role in recruiting folks for these positions so we don't have these vacancies and these openings. So just to let you know so that process -- I have been working with Suling and others to get that done. Councilwoman Hurtak.

Lynn Hurtak

01:47:39PM I appreciate that, because we have four appointments to this board. I didn't appoint, you didn't appoint, and Councilwoman Young didn't appoint. We weren't here for those appointments. My problem with today's, I have asked for the applications to be there, and there were no applications so I don't know anything about this person. So I can't vote on this today. I really want the -- the person's application.

Alan Clendenin

01:48:04PM Did randy show back up? Did he come back up? Once I found out that the councilwoman wanted to see him, I called him, and he came here at noon, and he had to go back. He said if you want to speak to him, he would be happy to come back if you want to reset it.

01:48:25PM I was going to say --

Clerk

01:48:28PM Just to clarify, an application was submitted to council by e-mail through Miss Ramsey and available and attached to the memorandum.

Lynn Hurtak

01:48:39PM It wasn't originally because all I got was the reapplication. The one I read was the reappointment application. They check a box saying I want to be reappointed, and we don't have the background, who they are. What school -- why they chose to be -- they don't have to answer those questions. We ask for original application so we can find out something about the person.

Alan Clendenin

01:49:04PM My understanding that randy is okay with this and other appointment coming up on the 18th. I heard a motion to continue this to the 18th for council member Maniscalco. Second from Councilwoman Hurtak. All in favor, say aye. Opposed. Ayes have it. This is continued until December 18. And now we have the walk-on. A motion from council member Maniscalco to move the resolution. Second from Councilwoman Hurtak. All in favor, say aye. Opposed. Matthew sink.

Guido Maniscalco

01:49:30PM Real quick, Mr. Chairman. An e-mail came through asking why there was a second reading on this. This is not a second reading. When we appoint, Mr. Shelby Has to prepare the resolution so this is standard procedure.

Alan Clendenin

01:49:43PM We read this the first time. The formal resolution we are moving today. A motion and a second. All in favor, say aye. Opposed. The ayes have it.

Martin Shelby

01:49:51PM Mr. Chairman, Martin Shelby, city county attorney. When you voted, you made it official, this memorialized the resolution, and it is retroactive. Even though you moved it today, retroactive to the day of the vote.

Alan Clendenin

01:50:05PM Very good. Thank you for the clarification. If there are any requests for reconsideration of legislative matters? Hearing none. Consent agenda, public safety. Council member Viera, moves items 5-1o.

Luis Viera

01:50:19PM I hearby move items 5-10.

Alan Clendenin

01:50:22PM Motion by council member Viera. Seconded from council member Miranda. All in favor, say aye. Opposed. Ayes have it.

Naya Young

01:50:29PM I move item 11.

Alan Clendenin

01:50:31PM A motion by council member Young and seconded by Maniscalco. All in favor, say aye. Opposed. Ayes have it unanimously.

Guido Maniscalco

01:50:39PM Move items 12-20.

Alan Clendenin

01:50:42PM Thank you. Motion from council member Maniscalco and seconded from council member Viera. All in favor, say aye. Opposed. Ayes have it. Finance committee. Council member Miranda, move items 21-23.

Charlie Miranda

01:50:54PM So moved. Move item 21-23.

Alan Clendenin

01:50:57PM Motion from council member Miranda. Seconded from council member Maniscalco. All in favor, say aye. Opposed. Ayes have it.

01:51:05PM 24-32.

Bill Carlson

01:51:08PM I move 24-32.

Guido Maniscalco

01:51:10PM Second.

Alan Clendenin

01:51:11PM All in favor, say aye. Opposed. Ayes have it. Thank you. Mobility asset management committee. Councilwoman Hurtak, move 33 and 34.

Lynn Hurtak

01:51:19PM I move 33 and 34.

Charlie Miranda

01:51:21PM Second.

Alan Clendenin

01:51:24PM All in favor, say aye. Opposed. Aye have it unanimously. Motion to set the public hearing for item 35.

Guido Maniscalco

01:51:31PM So moved.

Charlie Miranda

01:51:32PM Second.

Alan Clendenin

01:51:33PM All in favor, say aye. Opposed. Ayes have it unanimously. Motion to open all public hearings.

Guido Maniscalco

01:51:39PM So moved.

Lynn Hurtak

01:51:40PM Second.

Alan Clendenin

01:51:41PM All in favor, say aye. Opposed. Ayes have it unanimously. Thank you, public hearings are now open. Moving to the 10:00 public hearings. These first ones are nonquasi-judicial. We don't have to be sworn in. Item number 36.

Camaria Pettis-Mackle

01:52:00PM Good afternoon, Camaria Pettis-Mackle from the Legal Department. I want to first thank Susan renrick and troy chavez for attending the briefings that I had with City Council to answer any questions regarding Code Enforcement and to discuss further this ordinance. City Council, we had our briefings. I am available if you have any questions and City Council approved this ordinance on first reading.

Alan Clendenin

01:52:24PM Council have any questions? Hearing none. Anyone in the audience wishes to speak to item 36. Mr. Michelini. I sent an e-mail to you regarding fines that continue to run while you are in the process of trying to resolve an issue and the county allows you -- and I attached that to the e-mail I sent to you -- to stay any fines while you are in the process of resolution. Sometimes the resolution to these issues takes months, and it simply isn't fair. Many of these folks had their property liened, which means they can't get loans. They cannot get financing to resolves the problems. So if you assign a lien to the property or you don't stay the fines, you end up with sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars, tens of thousands of dollars that you then have to try to resolve and go back and get another hearing to resolve that. I would urge the council to consider inserting a provision that is similar to what the county has, which simply says that while you are in the middle of resolving the issue, no fines should be assigned or accrued. The second issue is on page 2 of the ordinance, it removes the City Council from appointing a magistrate. And it says, outside counsel engaged by the city attorney to provide such service. So it doesn't come to you, but it allows the city attorney to appoint a magistrate without your review or without your consideration. This policy of not -- of allowing fines to continue is discriminatory. It hurts people. If you look or attend any of those Code Enforcement hearings, you can see a lot of these people are not prepared, and it is very similar to a judicial process wherein their property rights are affected. A couple of things might be considered, including appointing someone there as -- like a public defender to help other people, because the city attorney's office and the magistrate are not in that job. It is not their position and not their responsibility. So anyway, we did the research, myself and some of the other law firms that I contacted. We did the research and found that other jurisdictions stay fines. They don't allow fines to continue. Sometimes, the magistrate will give you 60 days to comply. If you fall outside of that, the fines begin. I would strongly urge the council -- and I know you received other e-mails regarding that matter -- to consider inserting that into this code before you adopt it. Thank you very much.

01:55:18PM Thank you. Mr. Michelini, I have spoken with staff, and I think I spoken with you too. Camaria, can you address those issues. Was there anybody else in the public who wishes to speak to this item? Let's finish with public comment, and then I will bring you up. I thought that was the only one. And I just recently had a run-in with Code Enforcement over some contractor issues. What I would like for is an audit of that department and the workflow. Because the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. They send out letters with phone numbers of people for you to contact if you have questions. The two ladies in Code Enforcement that had to do with me going over time for a 132-square-foot closet I wanted built in my back porch never called. I even had to call Chief Bennett to see if he can get them to respond to me. There is no excuse for that. Luckily, somebody in Planning got in the middle of it and called me about the mediation. Because what happened was I was getting short of those 60 days. They already told me they would approve the permit. It was over a holiday weekend. So I finally got the mediation. The mediation was on a Tuesday -- a Wednesday. On Thursday, I got a letter from the tax association that the City of Tampa put a lien of me on $1,000 because I was late on a payment. They could not even wait for the mediation, and by the way, I didn't have to pay it. The other thing is, is, like I said, I had a porch damaged during the storm. I decided I needed to put a better roof on it to protect it. The city came out with an ordinance if it is under 500 square feet, you can use new materials and repair it. Well, I decided I was going to repair it and put a real roof on. So consequently, that made it a building. I needed a building permit for that. To get a building permit, I needed to find an architect. They wanted between $6,000 and $8,000. And they didn't want the job. No mechanical, no electrical, no plumbing involved, a roof, and three windows. Something has to -- there has to be some way this can all come together. Luckily, the job -- and besides that, I had a gentleman that was working as the job overseer. I can't think of the word for it. When he went to mediation with me, and we gave him the information, he had documented every time we called -- talked to the city. Every time I asked for a payment. Every time I made the payment. And we were not late on anything. And even the lady from Planning came and took our place. But for them to put a lien on my property for one day. They couldn't wait for the mediation, that lien is off, but nevertheless, that record is there. I think -- I ask that had you all -- have an audit for this department and its workflow. Thank you.

01:58:37PM Thank you. Next. Start with your name, please. I am actually here for item 42, but when I heard this one, it actually, like, hit me, because I am getting my -- my property rezoned. And while I was getting my property rezoned, Code Enforcement came. And they said that there is a tree that was cut down at some point in time, and I am going to get fined for it. And I tried to go on the city website to go ahead to pay for it. To the county to pay for it, you know, because I have no idea when it was because I acquired the property from my father, you know, so at some point between then and me getting and knocking down my building to actually do something better for, you know, that community that I have been in for, you know, my grandfather's grandfather's time. I am trying to pay for this one tree that was cut down, and I don't even know how to pay for it. This was done during my rezoning. That is the only reason why I stood up now, because this hit me also. And I don't think that it is right if I am going to rezone a place. And now because I am getting rezoned now, I am going to start getting fined because I am getting -- I am being -- you know, I am trying to do something better. So that is the reason why I came up here. And I will see you in a little while.

02:00:07PM Thank you. Start with your name, please. I could talk to you for hours about --

02:00:17PM We know. Of them because neighbors are afraid to file Code Enforcement issues. For instance, I filed one on the Related Group's building, ritz-carlton. There was a seven-story banner on the side of it. I filed a Code Enforcement complaint, and gave the address I found in zillow. You would think a 30-story building is not hard to find. I get a phone call from the lady at Code Enforcement. We are not going on wild goose chases. I am paraphrasing because I don't have all day to talk about it. The point is, they can't find a 30-story building with a seven-story banner on the side of it? That is what they told me. Seriously. And she put me on hold. Didn't really put me on hold. I had to hang up and call back, and I said I found the address. Let me give it to you. I can't take that information. I said you can't take Code Enforcement complaints over the phone. She said yes, we can. Why can't you fix the address on the original one. Oh, I can't do that because you can give me the wrong address. Excuse me? I also had Code Enforcement call me at my house while I am sitting at my desk in my office and tell me that my house does not exist, 7009 Lancare Lane. That is interesting because my fat behind is sitting here where I have been for the last 13 years, literally. I called because they called and did not left me a voicemail, and I called back and said somebody called me from your office. Well, I don't know who was. I know for a fact they all sit together. You can't lean over and say, hey, did you get a call? Did you call this lady? I even gave them the address because I called in a Code Enforcement complaint not 30 minutes before that. I am really hoping that we take the opportunity while we are going to put new blood and leadership in there to clean up some of the mess that goes up in that department. And I am not talking of the people that come out and make the judgments and pick things up and do that -- all that stuff. Every time I ever encountered somebody out in the field, I have been very impressed. But to call those ladies on the phone, oh, lord.

02:02:27PM Anybody else in the public wish to speak on this item? Camaria?

Camaria Pettis-Mackle

02:02:34PM Camaria Pettis-Mackle from the Legal Department. The proposed -- from the public comment that I am aware of that Mr. Michelini is talking about that was sent to City Council. That is regarding the authority of the director, specifically in the City of Tampa, the director of neighborhood enhancement. I have not presented an ordinance regarding the authority or to amend the authority of the director of neighborhood enhancement. That is actually found in a different part of our code. The authority of the director of neighborhood enhancement is found in chapter 19. Not in chapter 9. So I have given the language for the ordinance -- this is all only strictly about chapter 9. But the proposal, the suggestion from Mr. Michelini is in a different -- entirely different chapter of our code chapter 19. And City Council, Miss Zelman Has already presented this information. City Council has already approved the resolution for the law firm that is conducting the hearings. That has already been resolved and we stated that on numerous occasions.

Alan Clendenin

02:03:40PM The point that Mr. Michelini made. I don't think I spoke -- maybe, what staff person. Sounds commonsense if someone is trying to fix the problem, that we abate fines. Where is that located?

Camaria Pettis-Mackle

02:03:58PM Mr. Chair, as I put in the revised ordinance that is before you, I have amended -- provided additional language to give the special master the authority to amend a final order from that -- that was issued. The order can be amended to allow the deadline for compliance to be extended, meaning even before a fine starts running, a property owner based on the language that is in this ordinance, can file a request to have a hearing in front of the special magistrate to ask to extend the deadline for compliance so that no fine starts running. That authority is not in the code. This ordinance gives that authority. And it sticks -- spell it is out specifically to allow a property owner to file a request with the clerk. It is in the ordinance to extend the deadline for compliance. The property owner could state in front of the special magistrate why they need more time to come into compliance. And it will be up to the special magistrate to make that determination. But if the special magistrate decides to grant the request to extend the deadline for compliance, the special magistrate with this ordinance will be allowed to amend the order to extend the deadline for compliance.

Alan Clendenin

02:05:16PM I thinking that is how I explained it while we were on the phone. Councilwoman Hurtak.

Lynn Hurtak

02:05:22PM I think I am confused here, because are fines and liens the same thing?

Camaria Pettis-Mackle

02:05:29PM Daily fines are just daily fines. A lien -- so there will be a lien on a property if a person is not in compliance with the code by the deadline, okay. But the person -- the property owner is not having to pay a daily fine. For example, if the special magistrate assessed a $250-a-day fine. They don't have to pay $250 every day to the City of Tampa. The case stops running a daily fine once they are in compliance with the code. Once they are in compliance with the code, a fine settlement will be provided for that property owner.

Lynn Hurtak

02:06:07PM But there is a lien put on the property?

Camaria Pettis-Mackle

02:06:10PM Correct.

Lynn Hurtak

02:06:11PM Generally, there has to be a number with the lien?

Camaria Pettis-Mackle

02:06:15PM What do you mean by that?

Lynn Hurtak

02:06:18PM You put a lien on my property and says it a lien --

Camaria Pettis-Mackle

02:06:22PM A recorded lien saying you are not in compliance with the code. It is an order. Recording the order from the special magistrate.

Lynn Hurtak

02:06:29PM Okay.

Alan Clendenin

02:06:30PM Any other questions. Hearing none, can I get a motion to close?

Luis Viera

02:06:37PM So moved.

Alan Clendenin

02:06:38PM Second from --

Charlie Miranda

02:06:40PM Second.

Alan Clendenin

02:06:41PM All in favor, say aye. Opposed. The ayes have it. I see Councilman Carlson, I am assuming your intent to vote no on this again. Will you read the substance of the ordinance, council member Viera.

Luis Viera

02:06:53PM Yes, Sir. This is 36. Excuse me, I move an ordinance presented today for second and adoption. The City of Tampa, Florida, making comprehensive -- substitute ordinance presented for second reading and adoption, ordinance of the City of Tampa, Florida, making comprehensive revisions to the City of Tampa Code of Ordinances chapter 9, Code Enforcement repealing all ordinances or parts of ordinances in conflict therewith, providing for severability, and providing an effective date.

Alan Clendenin

02:07:35PM Motion from council member Viera. Second from --

Charlie Miranda

02:07:38PM I read everything that was given to me. I read them all. About two or three weeks in the ROW. I am not sure this is one --

Alan Clendenin

02:07:49PM Indicate you are there for the first. I need a second to move this. Is there a second?

Guido Maniscalco

02:07:54PM Restate it.

Alan Clendenin

02:07:55PM The chapter 9 ordinance. Item number 36. Council member Viera has read the ordinance. I need a second.

Charlie Miranda

02:08:02PM I will second it. We got to vote.

Alan Clendenin

02:08:05PM Man, like pulling teeth. A motion from council member Viera. Seconded from council member Miranda. Councilwoman Hurtak.

Lynn Hurtak

02:08:14PM I am still confused. I understand there are just separate sections of this. I still believe that we need to talk about this just from the public comment today. We need something more comprehensive about Code Enforcement. I just -- I truly believe we do.

Alan Clendenin

02:08:31PM Did you get the briefing?

Lynn Hurtak

02:08:36PM I thought I understood it but the lien thing.

Alan Clendenin

02:08:40PM Totally separate. Totally different. You want to reopen the hearing?

Lynn Hurtak

02:08:45PM No, I don't, because it is not going to be clear to me. And -- so -- so what I will do is I will say yes for this, but I will absolutely say that we just -- we still need to work on revising. Maybe chapter 19 is next.

Alan Clendenin

02:09:02PM We have a motion and a second. Please record your vote.

Clerk

02:09:05PM Motion carried with Carlson voting no and young being absent at vote.

Alan Clendenin

02:09:14PM Very good. Item number 37.

Dana Crosby Collier

02:09:17PM Good afternoon, Dana Crosby Collier from the city attorney's office. Second reading for the historic property tax exemption application for the property located 2234 east 7th. Heather Bonds gave a comprehensive presentation of the property of the improvements at first reading.

Alan Clendenin

02:09:40PM Thank you. Any questions? Hearing none. Anyone in the public who wishes to speak to this item?

Charlie Miranda

02:09:46PM Move to close.

Alan Clendenin

02:09:47PM A motion to close from council member Miranda. Second from council member Maniscalco. All in favor, say aye. Opposed. Ayes have it. Councilman Carlson.

Bill Carlson

02:09:55PM Move item number 37, file number htx 25-18470, ordinance presented for second reading and adoption. Ordinance approving a historic preservation property tax exemption application relative to the restoration, renovation, or rehabilitation of certain property owned by ybor nuccio, lcc located at 2234 east 7th avenue, Tampa, Florida, in the Ybor City historic district based on certain findings; providing for notice of the property appraiser of Hillsborough county; providing for severability; providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict; and provide an effective date. Motion by Councilman Carlson. Seconded by council member Viera. Please record your vote.

Clerk

02:10:42PM Motion carried unanimously with Councilman Young absent at vote.

Alan Clendenin

02:10:52PM I want to pause this --

Bill Carlson

02:10:57PM When I said nuccio, did I not say that right?

Lynn Hurtak

02:11:01PM No, no --

Bill Carlson

02:11:02PM I heard you guys whispering.

Lynn Hurtak

02:11:05PM We said we needed a full council for the second one.

Alan Clendenin

02:11:08PM You are good. Item number 37 -- sorry, 38.

Ross Samons

02:11:13PM Ross Samons, vac-25-06. I am available if you have you have questions.

Alan Clendenin

02:11:24PM Council have any questions? Applicant. Tyler Hudson, 400 North Ashley Drive. A long morning and a long afternoon. This is a vacating. No changes between first and second reading. We uploaded to the record a memorandum of the status of the title that we talked at length with title insurance commitments with three different national title companies and a letter from our license surveyor regarding the right-of-way not going to the shoreline. I think we have a full record and hope that you vote for this again like you did at the first reading, and we probably will talk after rebuttal. Thank you.

02:12:07PM Thank you. Anyone in the public wish to speak to item 38? Come on up. Start with your name. It will come up on the other about one. Great. Good morning. My name is Michael rich --

02:12:29PM Hold on a second. Can we get the wolf up on the public monitors, please. There we go. Start over. Many people in Sunset Park are dismayed of the City Council's decision to change their vote from the May 1 meeting. Applicants have distracted you with one big game of whack-a-mole with five different theories and rationales and you have fallen for it, and we, as a community, have to pay the price. First, in the application, they cited safety concerns. No examples of incidents of safety concerns have been provided. On the May 1 hearing, they talked all about ownership. We are at 100% sure that we own this property they said. Well, we spoke with the property appraiser's office, that is not what they believe. The applicants have yet to pursue a quiet title action. Even city Attorney Rob Wigginton in person and in e-mail only by a court of law and the property appraiser's office. At the November 6, threw three new darts. Applicants tried to go into a vacation by claiming that the city did not have a stormwater easement. Thankfully, city attorneys rejected that. They touched on the park that is more than a half a mile away. And finally, they wore you down with a weak, hypothetical liability argument. What if we get sued? That is what we would do. Fast forward to today and back to ownership with a new bulked-up set of title commitment letters posted a couple of days ago. I am going to spend my last couple of minutes focusing on the last two items. If the applicants believe they own the property all along, they would have put it on the application, not safety concerns, and wouldn't have called themselves adjacent property owners. The original title commitment letter they provided was effective only two weeks before the initial May 1 hearing. If the applicants are sure they own this land, let them make that argument in court. Please do not hand it over to them on a whim, and this is not the right venue for that. We made it obvious that the neighborhood use this land for the enjoyment of the outdoors and provides a clear public good. And you, yourselves, cited this memo multiple times at multiple meetings arguing that a right-of-way can be used for various functions and goods. You have no obligation to vacate here. Regarding personal injury ability, Florida case lawsuit back to the city of sarasota that you have in your in-box. In Florida, an adjacent property owner is not responsible for injury on a public right-of-way or sidewalk unless there is a city ordinance that creates a private right of action. I am not an attorney, but to my knowledge, no such ordinance exist. Finally, breaking this down to basic principles. Why are the applicants doing it? Only logical that they want an expanded private back yard. They have a six-foot-high wall, and fencing off their property is not going to make it safer from intruders, and I touched on liability. I get it. You are tired of this matter, but relenting to the applicant's -- sorry?

02:15:44PM Time is up. Thank you.

02:15:46PM Thank you very much. Next. Good afternoon. My name is natalie reinhart, and I'm here again so thank you for this opportunity to speak you with. I am very dismayed to be here yet again for a third time because, as you know, our entire neighborhood, minus the applicants, is staunchly against vacating this right-of-way. No public good for this land to be in private ownership. You may recall in our presentation back in 2025, you voted against vacating this right-of-way. Then council member Clendenin was encouraged to reconsider this only one month later. Mr. Clendenin and Mr. Shelby advised our group to treat the next City Council presentation as a court of law, so we did. We researched police reports, other right-of-way vacations over the past three years, and presented our case with integrity and honesty. But the opposition has swayed you all using arguably of liability and security concerns and no basis that they provided. They also reported that the Port of Tampa has ownership of over the secreted land that is on the bay. And even wished us "good luck" in gaining access for gaining that land for public use. We attended public meetings and in contact with dave roberts, director of real estate with the port, and not only does he not believe that the port has stake on this land, but he stated if, in fact, they do, he will commit to working with the Sunset Park to lease the secreted land back to the city so residents have access to the bay. If you vote this down, it is direct conflict with the City of Tampa Comprehensive Plan to increase access to blue and greenways. The process to gain access to the secreted land will take 45-plus days to accomplish. So I am asking you today to vote no in vacating this right-of-way or at the very least issue a continuance so that more factual information on this can come to light rather than you taking everyone's word. This -- the city attorneys cannot tell you who owns this land, and the port is not claiming the secreted land. If there is a shadow of a doubt in your mind at this point, do the right thing by all of the people in the City of Tampa and vote to preserve this little green space. The City of Tampa has been the custodian of this land for over 106 years. And you voted no to vacating this right-of-way in 1987. So I am asking you to please do the same thing again today.

02:18:24PM Thank you.

02:18:26PM Next speaker. Honorable council, thank you for your time on this matter. I'm here again to reconsider the city's vacating this right-of-way before the final vote. Many of us in November and some of us here today came to talk of the importance of this little space for the Sunset Park community, acritical role of providing public space for our children. At the November meeting, we heard from the applicants about a safety issue of potential lawsuits, but since taking ownership of the residence 38 years ago, we found no lawsuit of this right-of-way public land. We live in a world of what ifs. In 40 years, we haven't had a single lawsuit. Rather far-fetched don't you think for it suddenly will happen if we maintain the status quo. Not asking to you change it but maintain the status quo. Honorable chairman, you honored requests from less affluent communities and relinked right-of-way and you wanted to be equitable in this decision making. I applaud your commitment to equity, and I would like to share the analogy from baseball. When an umpire makes a bad call on a pitch, the worse possible action is to make another bad call on the subsequent pitch to make up for the mistake they made on that previous one. Now you just made two bad calls. The role of umpire to make the best possible call each and every time. In this case, the best vote is the favorite of the public good over private gain. This is what it boils down to, public good over private gain, and your job as council members is to sort through the legal arguments and represent your communities. I urge the council to review future applications from less affluent communities who don't have time to take time off work, arrange for child care, and appear before you or hire fancy lawyers to do so. Before I finish, I would like to ask that you ask these very important questions since we are not allow to ask the applicants any questions. Number one, please ask all parties what they believe happens to the ownership of this land if you vacate the city's right-of-way. Our understanding is that applicants believe they will each obtain ownership of 50%. However, we believe the city attorneys do not agree with that notion. It must be clear today if left unanswered, how will future pedestrian use be treated. Will it be treated as crime? This is especially important because it remain as be open question whether the applicants will be permitted to install a fence. Number two, please ask all applicants, how many times have you been sued for the injuries over the last 38 years that they have lived there. I am not talking rumor or anecdotes. Legitimate examples. We searched the public record and couldn't find any. Thank you for your time.

02:21:34PM Next speaker. Start with your name, please. Good afternoon, council members. I would like to give you some historical information concerning what we are talking about. My name is dick powers. My wife and I lived in the same house in Sunset Park since 1985. We are six houses away from the property that he wants to claim as his personal property. This piece of property was the only remaining piece of land with access to the water a number of years ago. Neighbors would kayak from there and enjoy the water access. Within the first ten years of Mr. Yared moving in, he started collecting signatures from neighbors hoping to build a property and build a fence to eliminate access to the water. He was not successful. Property remained a public right-of-way, and the fence was not allowed by the city. Five years ago, City Council voted again no to his request that this land be given to him. His neighbors and Sunset Park homeowner association voted overwhelmingly. And I repeat that, overwhelmingly not to give the land to him. He built an illegal fence, and council took no action. We don't understand why council did not. One current council member told me it is rare that council revisits a request again. He said in the past five years, only one or two requests have been revisited. This is Mr. Yared's third request. We feel he is being given preferential treatment. We don't know why. I heard the cost of keeping the property maintained is an issue. If that is the case, we will pay for the lawn to be mowed and maintained. Lastly, this land is the only land that children have to play on the intersection of West San Jose Street and North Dundee Street. Nearest other land for children to play on this -- on land is approximately one quarter of a mile away. Please vote no to give this land to Mr. Yared. If you have any questions, I will do my best to answer them.

02:23:44PM Thank you, Mr. Powers.

02:23:47PM Next speaker. I live very close to this area. I would like to point out I was here for the first reading and I heard the concerns about lawsuits on getting injured. You are talking about grass. I mean, you are talking about a mowed piece of grass. The only -- putting what sounds like an illegal fence on it, a structure, increases the opportunity for injury. And the second thing is, it will also increase the opportunity for injury, a second fence. The structures they already put that may be illegal and the one they are proposed also increase the opportunity for lawsuits rather than just a flat mowed piece of grass. I thought it was very interesting what they said of the Port Authority and the prior use of the land. I don't have the exact citation for you, but I know the comp plan. And the comp plan says that the -- the city should be looking for every opportunity to increase public spaces, recreational spaces, especially, especially, especially on the water. Sounds to me like we have a golden tune here. The Port Authority wants to work with the city. I mean I am -- this sounds to me like this could become a jewel that everybody can enjoy. You know what, we can plant a few live oaks there. Thank you.

Guido Maniscalco

02:25:10PM Type 1.

Alan Clendenin

02:25:12PM Next speaker. Stephanie poynor. Sounds like there is competent, substantial evidence that you can't -- how can you give away this easement or right-of-way or whatever it is if part of it belongs to the Port Authority. But they don't know it belongs -- don't they do title searches for this stuff? I mean, in my world, they do. But I -- you know, it is just -- these folks have done a good job of showing up and speaking up. And what good fences make good neighbors, but I am kind of worried what kind of neighbors they are getting here. But ultimately, they can't decide who owns it. So you can't tell somebody what to do with it, because you don't even know for sure that you all own it. How can you make a decision when you don't have all the facts. Do we have the title search? They showed something from a month ago. I mean, seriously. And the applicants are the one who said -- somebody said, somebody who makes a lot of money doing what they do said part of it belongs to the port. You can't give away port land because it doesn't belong to you either! You can't make a decision on this. Because you don't have all the information. And I am sorry, but nobody should get a piece of land like this for $573. Thank you.

02:26:38PM Thank you. Anybody else who wishes to speak to this item? Okay. Rebuttal? You know, I think it is really all been said on this. 106 years ago, property owners dedicated this land to the city for purposes of making a road. It was not built for 106 years. It is not going to be built tomorrow. Not going to be built ever. Everybody knows that. This is privately owned land. We have all the evidence -- all the evidence we put into the record. Three different national title insurance companies all concluding the same thing that it is privately owned. I never in my real estate lawyer career seen three title insurance companies all be wrong. We have a licensed surveyor saying that the right-of-way does stop at the water line. Regarding the port property, again, I was not in any of those conversations. We know that the port believes they own the land that is on the water because they have been deeding it to other people over the years for their docks, but kinds of look at that course of dealing, it establishes that the port does own that. So we really talked about this a lot at this point. I understand and sympathize with folks who feel like they are losing something, but this is not a park. It has never been a park. It can not be a park. And the fact that it is this accidental green space does create liability risk for the folks on either side. I don't think that is a fair burden for them to bear alone. If the city wants to turn this into a park, the city can buy the land. That is an option, but nobody has brought that forward given the amount of money just spent on a park down the street which is beautiful and at least $1 million went into. With that, I will turn it over to the other applicant's representative, Mr. Michelini. Thank you. Adjacent property owner on other side, who is a joint petitioner for this request. It is a problem. It has been a problem. It is not a recreational area. I mean, people have used it, but it is the same as if in your neighborhood there was a vacant lot, and the kids, including myself, went up and they -- they put in a baseball field or some sort to play on it or a football or whatever. It doesn't give you a right of ownership. It simply means when somebody who comes in that does own it that wants to build something, that you have to leave. So in this case, I am not sure somehow they assumed that is city owned. It does not have access to the water. We have shown you the photographs. We have shown you the surveys, and the title companies have verified what we told you. It is not a recreational area. It can't be. It won't be. The city attorney told that to you as well, and I will be happy to let Mr. Wigginton confirm all that, but we respectfully request your approval. And jeff, do you want to say anything? I think that three title policies show that the land was ours. It was, you know, deemed that it would be a road. It is not going to be a road. City attorney has already said that. It should be returned to us. You know, we are responsible for it. We have to take care of it. We are liable for it. Whether you think there are security issues or not, if something happens, we are liable for it. There is a beautiful, beautiful park six minutes down the road, walking down the road. It is the right thing to do. I mean, it -- it is ours. It is not going to be used by the city. That's -- that's all I have to say. Thanks. I will be very brief. There are some things -- cj -- some things I don't know much about. I don't know much about City Council and how it governs itself, and I welcome the new member. I don't know what the gentleman was talking about, Mr. Yared did this or that. The only thing I would wish, look at the decorum and people testifying with oath so as if perjury is committed, there will be consequences. I never -- never heard anything like what I heard today. Well, he hasn't been sued in 38 years. This goes to your point. I can't tell you how many times I heard people say, they should have put a light at that intersection after somebody is killed. There is a lawsuit. Do you think I will wait until I get sued to come up and say that little land I have been mowing for 38 years is something that is a park. I helped -- and certainly supported the park -- excuse me, the park y'all built within minutes of our house. It is barricaded. It has -- the City Council or the mayor or whoever put speed bumps on west shore to slow the traffic, which is great. Every day there are kids there. It is packed. This is not a land grab. I don't just want to get sued. I have been mowing that property for 38 years. By the way, I lived in Sunset Park since 1964. I known that area very well. Before the my light goes on, I don't know what happened to neighbors. I don't know what happened to our society. Everybody used to be kind and everybody used to work together. I don't know what happened. I really don't. I don't know why people want to get up and be divisive and critical. Whack-a-mole. He said the neighborhood was on their side. Nobody is on their side unless they believe the petition which says access to the water. That is an absolute falsehood. Not whack-a-mole, it is truth time. Please consider the merits of the case opposed who yells or ridicules us in the background. Thank you. Alan Clendenin: that's it for rebuttal. Thank you very much.

Guido Maniscalco

02:32:46PM I have a couple of questions.

Alan Clendenin

02:32:48PM Council member Maniscalco.

Guido Maniscalco

02:32:49PM I have questions regarding the property and access to the water. I did this from an apple map virtual search. I didn't drive by. There is a gate toward the back side of the property where the water access is at. Who controls that gate? It look like a fence. It looks like a wrought-iron gate.

02:33:15PM A key -- city park and rec. As you are facing, looking west down dryad, you see a white vinyl fence, the rear of the property. As far as who has access to that, I would think that the city has some access because there is a stormwater facility there. I didn't mention but I would remind with the release of this street easement, the city is getting a stormwater easement across this entire area. Active stormwater facility under all you have this land. That is known. That is undisputed as well.

02:33:56PM Two storm drains at the beginning off the street.

02:34:02PM How does one get a kayak and access that area if it is a locked gate. If an easement is locked. Neither of them have ever witnessed in entire time living there seeing a person kayaking there. I don't know how you would do that and that -- I have an adventurous nine-year-old. Somebody could figure out how to hop over a fence but you are going on a stormwater outflow. Don't do it. It is just not done.

02:34:43PM My next question is, it was stated at the last hearing that you can't build a house there. It wouldn't be permitted. I forgot who mentioned it. What can you build there?

02:34:55PM Can it be a mother-in-law suite, a shed, or a single-car garage. What do you do with this, 3,000 square feet? Still going to be an easement on the property. If you approve this ordinance, there is a vacating, and the condition of the vacating is that no structures are allowed on the entire area. No structures are not allowed. Unless there is a subsequent release of the easement that you usually do this in consent but will come back with the whole process over again. You can't build anything. This is not to serve the homes. A main stormwater main. We also have to provide access for stormwater maintenance. And there is a prohibition against building anything. It has to be remain green. I guess it is just vacant. But there is a huge stormwater pipe that runs underneath there.

02:35:57PM Okay. Next question is, regarding that -- I think it was sarasota versus something case. Was it sarasota from 2000? Okay. Can somebody from our Legal Department clarify -- regarding liability, if you have the individual that is maintaining this property for, what, 38 years mowing the grass, because the city makes you. Is that -- the adjacent property owner is made to maintain this. How can they be free from liability yet they are out there with a lawn mower or a company doing it for them. Personal injuries suffered on the property. Pursuant to section 1948, yes, you are correct, abutting property owners required to maintain to the center line of any alleyways or abandoned right-of-way, or undeveloped section of the adjacent property that they do not own. So pursuant to our code, they are required to maintain it. As far as liability is concerned, certain analogous to a regular right-of-way where somebody is injured on an abutting right-of-way. I am talking generic right now. This is a very unique situation where there is a question as to ownership.

02:37:17PM What if somebody trips on one of the storm drains that is facing the street. Caused injury, yes, that would be the city's responsibility. Abutting property owners were not maintaining the property, that has a different scenario that would certainly impact the analysis.

02:37:37PM The last question, if could you answer it, is regarding that discussion with the port. Is that admissible? I have no information that that occurred. I am not suggesting it did not. It is the first I heard of it. I would, for my purpose, consider it speculation until I hear directly from them.

02:38:01PM If the port controls that -- let's say the port controls the other side where the water is at, and the port will grant permits for docks and access on other properties. If they get this vacating and they take over the property, they do not have any right or entitlement to what could be the port. Meaning what is on the other side of the white fence on the water, that will not be part of this, correct? They would not have -- once the submerged land is dry, there is certainly arguments to say that the port owns the upland and the dry land. We are not getting into that argument. We are not addressing the fee at all. No, the right-of-way that is being vacated is clearly delineated by the plat. And that is the size of the right-of-way. So the port will not assume any ownership, I would not think -- again I am getting back to say who owns it and who doesn't at the end of vacating, and we really should avoid it. I can't really see an argument that the port can make that they would own the right-of-way since it is a right-of-way plat only.

02:39:09PM So to close this out, if there is a gate as shown in -- as you google map it or whatever, whatever app you want to use, how do you get access to the water? How do you get a kayak there? Here is the photo. If you go straight ahead, there is not a space in between the white vinyl fence.

02:39:32PM In the staff report I pulled it up, it looks to be that. Success.

02:39:42PM Who put up the fence? Who put up the gate? Like I said, like I asked, city park and rec with the key? Who is it? Bob mcdonough put the gate up. That is his house. That is his dock. He got the land from the port, because the port gave it to him, and it is on title.

02:40:08PM He is on this application.

02:40:12PM But in the staff report, I see the name Robert mcdonough. It was one of the originals. When we realized the extent of the right-of-way does not abut his property.

02:40:25PM The other side of the fence, mcdonough and yared's property.

02:40:33PM You are going into somebody else's back yard in a way. As I am looking at the map -- yard. Is out for mcdonough.

Lynn Hurtak

02:40:54PM How it's mcdonough's back yard.

Guido Maniscalco

02:41:03PM I am saying his viewpoint.

Alan Clendenin

02:41:06PM Mr. Michelini, can you zoom in on the image with the lot highlights with the red. That the right-of-way doesn't go to the fence. The fence is the back of the port's property. That is the westward, seaward, wet side. This is probably the most, albeit, very poorly done by me illustration of this. The yellow hatched line with a very rough approximation of the right-of-way extent. That is what we have in the record, a letter from the Florida licensed surveyor saying that the right-of-way doesn't go to the water line at all. It stops short of it. It stops there. Yeah, we haven't gone out and put flags in the ground for it. But this right-of-way parcel we are talking about which is scaled up from a plat from 1919. That is this yellow little -- I don't know a four-sided figure that is not a square. That is that. A rhombus. Rhombus is the only land we are talking about today. Where you may be going is that you can't get to the water without going on noncity property. That is 100% true.

Guido Maniscalco

02:42:33PM Will say, yeah, we will get -- we will come to an agreement. Has to be an agreement with the city or whoever owns the property or whatever. I don't know. It is just -- it is a very weird situation. If the port -- and, again, I don't think we should -- we even talked to the port. I am sure that everything that the neighbors said is true and accurate, that they might not know what is going on. They want to be cooperative and helpful. My experience working with the port on a lot of projects, takes a long time -- sometimes to work with them to figure out who owns the title of things. I can't imagine a scenario that we want to have a public park water launch facility right above a city stormwater facility where there is a ton of mangroves. You have to pay a ton amount of money to impact those mangroves. Little bit of a dog bites the car situation. I don't think the neighborhood would want this to be a massive kayak launch for all you have South Tampa, but we are veering off the point here. Right-of-way we are talking about does not go to the water period, and I am not aware of any argument.

Alan Clendenin

02:43:50PM Hold on Stephen Michelini --

Charlie Miranda

02:43:56PM From the gate to the dotted line. Who owns that I understand that. From there -- that was created by accretion. That is new land. The port owns that land, yeah.

02:44:13PM The port owns that portion of the land. It to the neighbor for his dock. That is pretty common.

Alan Clendenin

02:44:24PM I think we are in the weeds. Clarification -- in the mangroves. I just want -- just so we are clear and get legal staff to the podium to talk about this. The issue before us today is just the right-of-way issue, not ownership. It isn't even anything to do with the port property. It is -- it is -- and a rough estimation where this hatched line is whether the city has a use for the existing right-of-way, which was reserve for the potential extension of dryad street; is that correct? Is that a correct summary? You are 100.

Ron Wigginton

02:45:12PM Ron Wigginton with the Legal Department.

Alan Clendenin

02:45:16PM The first time and second time for the property owners -- we will do that afterwards. I was trying to bring it home for a landing. Thank you very much. That's good. Any other questions? Do we need a motion to closed.

Luis Viera

02:45:28PM So moved.

Guido Maniscalco

02:45:29PM Second.

Alan Clendenin

02:45:31PM All in favor, say aye. Opposed. Ayes have it. Let me continue my thought. The difference is, I know that a lot of the stuff that was talked by the neighbors. Feel you guys. I lived in belmar shores. A lot, an empty lot next to al Lopez that my kids used to play on there in the bay and basically a neighborhood park. And we loved it dearly, but all of a sudden, boom, after 15 years somebody built a house. I felt like we lost a public park. We used to sip wine and watch the sunset. We felt it was public property. Same thing. This does not belong to the city. Not about property ownership, just about where there is a right-of-way for a street. Only decision today that this council is managing that -- we are still going to have a right-of-way through its property for stormwater. So we still have a right-of-way. We won't have a right-of-way for the street. Because we are never -- put your -- put you in our position. The city has come to us, the City staff has said -- we have no use for this property as a street. We are not going to use this property as a street. So when an applicant comes to us saying we want this right-of-way back to us. We want the right-of-way rerelinquished. We are not giving the right-of-way. We are relinquishing the right-of-way. We are not giving the property away. We are relinquishing a component of this which is the right-of-way. And I think that -- that boils down to that. It is just -- I mean, again, I feel for you. I know -- I know what you are thinking as far as emotionally, but in an intellectual way of making a judicial decision based on what the city's legal position of retaining a right-of-way that was intended for the street they are never going to use. We are asked that question yes or no, I can only come up with one answer. Here we go. Councilwoman Hurtak.

Lynn Hurtak

02:47:26PM And I disagree. Because we have done that too many times and we have regretted it. That is my reasoning for this. We have given -- we have relinquished right-of-ways too many times, and we regret it. So I can't do it.

Alan Clendenin

02:47:43PM Anybody else?

Naya Young

02:47:45PM Are we going to vote now?

Alan Clendenin

02:47:47PM Going to in one second. Is that is it? Council member Viera, you want to do it.

Luis Viera

02:47:57PM I read and ordinance being presented for second reading and adoption, ordinance of the City of Tampa, Florida, vacating, closing, discontinuing or abandoning a property located of North San Gable Court, of South San Miguel Street, east of Old Tampa Bay, of West Dundee Street, with the plat of sunset camp subdivision in the City of Tampa, Hillsborough county, more fully described, more particulary set forth herein, providing for enforcement and penalties of violations; provide for definition; providing for severability; for severability; and providing an effective date.

Alan Clendenin

02:48:34PM A motion from council member Viera. A second?

Charlie Miranda

02:48:38PM I will second it.

Alan Clendenin

02:48:39PM A second from council member Miranda. Please record your vote.

Clerk

02:48:43PM Motion carried with Carlson, Hurtak and young voting no.

Alan Clendenin

02:48:52PM Thank you.

02:49:05PM Before I do that, we had a request -- if you all would entertain moving item 52 up on the agenda. USF.

Lynn Hurtak

02:49:20PM That is after 10:30. That is after all the 10s.

Alan Clendenin

02:49:27PM We are past our time certain.

Martin Shelby

02:49:29PM Is the gentleman here for the 2:30.

Alan Clendenin

02:49:32PM I believe he is here.

Lynn Hurtak

02:49:35PM Go do your thing. How about this. We will -- we will do the ordinance -- we will do the next one and then when you come back, we have do tinkler.

Alan Clendenin

02:49:45PM Let's do tinkler now. I already met with him.

Lynn Hurtak

02:49:50PM Then we will have a moment to talk to Mr. Tinkler.

Alan Clendenin

02:49:53PM Mr. Shelby, would you like to introduce him.

Martin Shelby

02:49:57PM Before I do that, I wanted to have a reminder of the last hearing. Remember, there is an appeal period, council. There may be a lot of people who want to talk to you about it. My recommendation is that during the appeal period when it can be challenged, the decision can be challenged for any party involved or any interested person or member of public or the press. There is a 30-day appeal period, and I caution you against speaking until the appeals period has passed until you can talk about it publicly, thank you.

Lynn Hurtak

02:50:25PM Okay. Mr. Tinkler, are you available?

Martin Shelby

02:50:34PM Council, as you know, I sent you the biography of Mr. Tinkler, who -- he or she is being offered -- he is offering his services to the City Council to serve as the independent attorney for the Charter Review Commission as required now by your city charter. And I did forward you his biography so you have the opportunity to read about him, and I will introduce him to you. I never heard the word "rhombus" used in a hearing.

Lynn Hurtak

02:51:12PM Former teacher. My background. I certainly enjoyed when marty called about this opportunity. Background on me. I started my career with the Hillsborough county attorney's office. Joined carlton fields in '06. I have been board certified in local government and county government law since 2025. Dealing with charters and all kinds of issues the entire time, and I represented the Hillsborough charter review board in-house in 2000 and 2005 and served as their conflict council ever since. In case the county attorney had a conflict, I am available to to jump in. I understand what you are looking for and I wanted to make sure I had this right working with an engagement letter with marty and the city attorney. A limited recommendation of just this charter review board. I wouldn't be representing the mayor, you, or the municipal corporation. I would be reviewing is this charter review board. My term will be when you appoint this board, and they begin meeting to the point that I draft whatever charter recommendations that they have for you, including the ballot language, that would be handed off to you and my role would end. That will be up to council and staff to proceed from there if it goes to election or not. That is what I understand. I certainly will be happy to take this on. I know we are working at the details of the engagement letter and all that, and that will come back to you later. I wanted to see if you have any questions.

02:52:52PM Council member Miranda.

Charlie Miranda

02:52:54PM You were at carlton fields. I read your bio, and you have a strong resume.

Lynn Hurtak

02:53:03PM Council member Carlson.

Bill Carlson

02:53:05PM You come very highly recommended, and you have a great reputation. One of the main issues that I hope will be addressed in -- in this process is the role of the city attorney and how to address potential conflicts. Great that you have experience at the county and how to do that. If you look at the charter, the city attorney has several clients and how to deal with two clients have a conflict with each other. What does the city attorney need to do in that case. And, you know, what has happened in the past is the city attorney tends to favor the mayor because the mayor can fire the person. And the -- I was on the last Charter Review Commission, and the city attorney at the time -- not this one, but prior -- came running down and challenged us and argued with us publicly, which I since learned was completely inappropriate. You may get pressured by political folks, pressured whoever the new city attorney is, you might get pressured by the mayor, a former mayor, and what I want to see you do is exactly what you just said. You would represent your clients outside of political pressure. And you are going to have at least two attorneys, one of them is a former Florida bar president. I want to make sure that we hold the highest ethical standards and no political bias that comes into the process. That is why I am proposing the engagement to make it clear that I only have one client here, and it is to provide them legal advice to whoever you appoint to the board and will make the decisions how they want to go forward.

02:54:47PM You come very highly recommended and if you hold true to that and to fend off whatever political -- not a problem.

Alan Clendenin

02:54:58PM Councilwoman Hurtak followed by council member Viera.

Lynn Hurtak

02:55:00PM Thank you. I am looking forward to this. And the thing you said -- I also was on the last Charter Review Commission. The thing that is probably the most important thing to me that not only is it separate, but after getting our recommendations, being able to distill those into amendments and the legal language. That was something that took some of our -- our actual thoughts, and what we ended up with is not the same thing. So I really look forward to working with an independent attorney to make sure that does happen. So that -- that is key on my mind. And so I really appreciate that you mentioned that, because I think that is critical going forward and being put on a ballot. As it moves along to see the language it sends up with.

Alan Clendenin

02:55:49PM Council member Viera followed by council member Maniscalco.

Luis Viera

02:55:52PM Thank you very much. Looking forward to see new action and everything like that. You have a stellar reputation. I don't believe we met, but when you walked in, I said that is a lawyer. You look like a lawyer. Walk like a lawyer.

Alan Clendenin

02:56:07PM I will take offense to that.

Luis Viera

02:56:10PM I am a lawyer. That is a compliment. Ball and strikes. Your ethical -- no matter who pays you or pressures you, balls and strikes to quote chief justice roberts, that's it. You will do well.

Charlie Miranda

02:56:26PM A lawyer who played baseball.

Alan Clendenin

02:56:28PM Maniscalco followed by council member Miranda. Council member Maniscalco.

Guido Maniscalco

02:56:34PM Welcome on-board. We looked at your resume. And something that our City Council attorney asks is can you be fair and impartial. I think you can be fair and impartial. Tampa is not that big of a town. I joke that I married a woman from West Virginia because she had no connections because anybody I would meet dating would be you are so and so's cousin, work for so and so. You are out of that. And, you know, I have to give credit to former council member yoli capin that made the motion to create the Charter Review Commission. We didn't look at it since 1975. There was political pressure because every mayor and city leadership would be missing with the city constitution. But 1975, Tampa is different from when we brought the initial Charter Review Commission. And here we are again. So, you know, we have our appointees, andso does the mayor. I trust in the judgment of council that, you know, we each appoint good people, and we did in the past and many came to serve on the City Council. And I appreciate their service, because it is a lot of work. Just like the citizens budget board, you know, the advisory board, they work like crazy for free. They work because they care about the city, just like the people we are putting on -- that we would be appointing. And, again, I am glad you are here. This is -- it is historical. Something that is not often done but glad we are revisiting it in a higher frequency and not a half a century later. You will have your hands full and you are working with good people. Welcome on board, sir.

Alan Clendenin

02:58:20PM Without objection, we will move forward with the employment agreement. Martin Shelby: if we can, I was going to ask, I don't know if City Council took any specific action with Hendrickson -- with Robert Henderson being the facilitator and Robert tinkler as the attorney, it would be appropriate if you didn't get direction.

02:58:46PM Got consent.

Lynn Hurtak

02:58:47PM I will make a motion to --

Martin Shelby

02:58:51PM For legal to return with a resolution for the engagement.

Lynn Hurtak

02:58:55PM For legal Attorney Shelby to come back with a resolution about -- what was the first --

Alan Clendenin

02:59:03PM I think what I would ask is that council grant the chair -- grant the chair the authority to negotiate employment agreement, and I will work with Mr. Shelby.

Martin Shelby

02:59:12PM That is fine.

Guido Maniscalco

02:59:14PM Move to hand it off to the chairman to negotiate.

Lynn Hurtak

02:59:16PM Second.

Alan Clendenin

02:59:18PM All in favor, say aye. Opposed. Ayes have it.

Martin Shelby

02:59:24PM If I can, council, just to keep you informed and the public informed. I understand the process is under way with your appointees.

Alan Clendenin

02:59:31PM Anybody not made an appointment yet?

Martin Shelby

02:59:38PM I haven't heard from the mayor's office. I haven't inquired. That being said, you tentative timeline for the appointments of the board and for the engagement of the attorney and the facilitator is tentatively set for December 13, which is the last meeting of the year -- excuse me, the 18th. Assuming -- that is our goal and if not, would have to be the first meeting in January.

Alan Clendenin

03:00:03PM We will make that 18th.

Martin Shelby

03:00:06PM Okay. Thank you. Thank you, sir.

Alan Clendenin

03:00:09PM Thank you. We will be in touch.

03:00:12PM Appreciate you taking time this afternoon. Okay. Back to the agenda. Item number 39.

Eric Cotton

03:00:19PM Eric Cotton.

Alan Clendenin

03:00:28PM Let's do more public comment.

Eric Cotton

03:00:31PM I have a whole slide show if you want to see it. Eric Cotton, land Development Coordination. We took items 39, 40, and 41 together, changes to the July cycle. If you want to just consider them all at one time.

Alan Clendenin

03:00:44PM Any objection of doing that, 39, 40, and 41. We will vote on them individually.

Eric Cotton

03:00:53PM Do you want a presentation?

Alan Clendenin

03:00:55PM No.

Eric Cotton

03:00:56PM If you have any questions. We made one change, which is under extended family residence, and it changed from "shall" to "may." If you have any other questions.

Alan Clendenin

03:01:10PM 39, 40, 41. Vote on them individually, but if you have any questions of any one of those three, now is your time to speak. Hearing none. Council member Maniscalco.

Guido Maniscalco

03:01:20PM I just, you know, have been swamped on base and no questions from me looking at all this information from the whole agenda.

Alan Clendenin

03:01:28PM Anybody in the audience wishes to speak to 39, 40, or 41? Hearing none, can we get a motion to close? We have a motion to close from council member Maniscalco. Seconded from council member Miranda. All in favor, say aye. Opposed. Ayes have it. Mr. Shelby.

Martin Shelby

03:01:51PM Did I hear you say 39, 40 and 41.

Alan Clendenin

03:01:55PM Correct.

Martin Shelby

03:01:56PM All three at the same time.

Alan Clendenin

03:01:58PM Read them individually. Ask will Miranda if he had the opportunity to review the record.

Charlie Miranda

03:02:05PM Yes, I have.

Martin Shelby

03:02:06PM A reminder that 41 a substitute. And just for the purposes of the record, did you ask the public for each one of those items? You did close the public hearings.

Alan Clendenin

03:02:19PM We did.

Martin Shelby

03:02:20PM Thank you.

Alan Clendenin

03:02:21PM Councilwoman Young. A nice long one. Read 39.

Naya Young

03:02:25PM Sure. File number e 2025-8 chapter 27. Ordinance being presented for second reading and adoption, an ordinance of the City of Tampa, Florida, relating to publicly initiated text amendments, making revisions to City of Tampa Code of Ordinances amending chapter 27, zoning and land development, amending section 27-43, definitions, amending section 27-118 approvals by be a Logistics and Asset Management,rc administrator; amending section 27.211.1, general administrative procedures amending section 27-211.2.1 general district development standards for Seminole Heights. Residential single-family detached, amend section 27-211.2.2 general district development standards if Seminole Heights. Residential single-family attached sh-rs-a district; amending section 27-211.2.3 general district development standards for Seminole Heights. Residential multifamily amending 27.211.2.4 general district development standards for Seminole Heights residential sh-ro district; amending section 27-211.2.5 general district development standards for Seminole Heights commercial neighborhood sh-cn district; amending 27-211.6, development standards for commercial mixed use or other nonresidential, sh-cg and sh-ci development amending landscape area and tree planting requirements, 27-211.6. Appealing for severalability, repealing all ordinances, and providing an effective date.

Alan Clendenin

03:04:26PM Next time without taking a breath. A motion from council member Young. A second from council member Maniscalco. Please record your vote.

Bill Carlson

03:04:34PM I had to read that one last time so I am happy you did it.

Clerk

03:04:42PM Motion carried unanimously with council member Viera being absent at vote.

Alan Clendenin

03:04:46PM Item number 40, Councilwoman Hurtak.

Lynn Hurtak

03:04:49PM Ordinance being presented are second reading and adoption. An ordinance of the City of Tampa, Florida, relating to publicly initiated text amendments making revisions to City of Tampa, Florida, code of ordinances amending chapter 27, zoning and land development. Creating section 27-71. Site development plan for variances. Amending section 27-284.2.5, permit for grand tree removal, application, required documentation, standards, and criteria for decision, inches, petition for review. Providing for severability. Repealing all ordinances or parts of ordinances in conflict therewith, and providing an effective date.

Alan Clendenin

03:05:34PM A motion and a second. Please record your vote.

Clerk

03:05:37PM Motion carried unanimously with Viera being absent at vote. Council member Maniscalco. Item 41, substitute amendment.

Guido Maniscalco

03:05:49PM Substitute ordinance for e-20-8 chapter 27. Ordinance of the City of Tampa, Florida, relating to publicly initiated text amendments making revisions to City of Tampa Code of Ordinances amending section 27-132, regulations providing individual special uses. Providing for severability.

Alan Clendenin

03:06:15PM Please record your vote.

Clerk

03:06:19PM Motion carried unanimously with Viera being absent at vote.

Alan Clendenin

03:06:27PM Again, back to item number 52, the request to move that up.

Guido Maniscalco

03:06:37PM Motion to move 52 up. All in favor, say aye. Opposed. Rest of the hearings will be quasi-judicial. If you are here to testify or speak on any of these issues, please stand, raise your right hand and be sworn in by the clerk. [Swearing in]

Alan Clendenin

03:07:16PM 52.

Rebecca Johns

03:07:17PM Good afternoon Rebecca Johns, Legal Department. This is the first public hearing for a second amendment to the development agreement between the City of Tampa and the USF Board of Trustees. Campus development agreements are different than the development agreement that typically come before you. These development agreements have their own governing statute, which is section 1013.30 Florida statutes. Statute specifically sets out the procedure and the requirements for adopting a campus development agreement. The procedure -- just very briefly that the university first submits a campus master plan to the local government and some other state reviewing agencies. Any objections of the local government to the campus plan are limited to issues directly pertaining to the public facilities or services that the local government provides or maintains within the campus or the direct impact that the development would have on the local government. We do not comment on what is actually being built on the campus. The university Board of Trustees considers the comments from all of the reviewing agencies and then they adopt their master plan. Upon adoption of the master plan, the Board of Trustees and the local government enter into a development agreement to address those public agreements to address the public facilities that are in the master plan that includes the levels of service and impacts of and deficiencies to the facilities. In the event that the development agreement is not approved here, then it moves on to the state land Planning agency to hold a hearing. And that state land Planning agency may prescribe by order the contents of the development agreement. That is just a brief overview of how we got here. That is what happens when you adopt a development agreement. This is a second amendment to an existing development agreement; however, it went through the same process. In 1998, the initial campus development agreement was entered into with USF. In 2007, that development agreement was redone. And it was extended in 2015. So currently, the campus development agreement expires December 31, 2025. USF adopted an amendment to their campus plan to add additional outdoor seating in the stadium and then add some beds. USF is here to provide more information about their development, so I won't go into that. I do want to remind that you this is about the stadium. This does not include claude property that you heard this morning and in media. This extends the current development agreement through December 31, 2030. This amendment addresses the public facilities impacted by the proposed development. It states that water for the stadium will be served through existing on-campus Wells. And to answer your question, councilman, I have confirmed there is water treatment. It also addresses three roadway intersections that are impacted. Those roadways are county and d.o.t. Roads. So the agreement provides that USF is working with the county to make those improvement. Agreement said estimated flows for wastewater capacity become inadequate, USF will be responsible at their cost for the improvements to adjust the pumping rates and/or changes to the points of connection to the city's sewer or the city system. There were no other impacts to the city facilities. Again, this amendment is not about approving what is being constructed on the campus. It is about the public facilities and services. This will not be voted on today by you. There are to be two public hearings. I would ask that the chair prior closing this public hearing announce the date of second public hearing, which will be December 18. And USF is here to make their presentation and to answer any questions. Thank you.

Alan Clendenin

03:11:33PM Very good. Representative from USF. Go bulls. I am rob Higgins. I am the first-ever CEO of USF athletics. You may know me from executive director of Tampa Bay sports commission in my prior role. I appreciate the flexibility of moving the agenda item up. Our men's basketball team takes on undefeated Utah state tonight and fresh off the heels of introducing our new USF head football coach. Crazy week but appreciate that flexibility. I am going to take you through a quick presentation. I believe this should have it up here.

03:12:19PM It is coming up. Here we go.

03:12:24PM It is there. I will take you through this quick presentation. This really represents a brand-new era for USF athletics. Our new on-campus stadium will be transformative not only for USF but also for the community. Opens us up to a wide variety of new opportunities. I am going to walk you through its location first on campus. It is located on the east side of campus. It is just south of the porter family indoor performance center. Less than a ten-minute walk for all you have our campus -- all of our students that live on campus, as well as a ten-minute walk from the future fletcher district. Take a little bit more of a closer look at the -- some of the amenities that surround, whether it is the champion's walk that will lead right into the stadium. There is plenty of parking and tailgate zone like the grass lot and the north lawn. And the south promenade will basically hold and house all of our football and service our operations as well. Some of the general numbers at a glance. Stadium capacity is 35,000. Club capacity is 1107. We will have 22 living room boxes. 17 loges. 22 suites as well as two founder suites. And the club capacity is 498. We are very pleased and proud of the fact that we will be able to have close to 8,000 students attends the games which will be awesome for, again, our first-ever on campus stadium experience. A lot of great benefits certainly when look at the sports and event revenue that can be generated. 35,000 seats again, but then you have ticket sales, concessions, restaurants, hotel guests, all of which are boosting the tax revenue. The potential for outside events because it can become a great venue for concerts, events, high school and other collegiate championships as well. So we are very pleased with all of the different benefits. It will create exposure for USF and Tampa Bay area that will attract tourists, businesses, conferences and no doubt that Tampa is where businesses and families want to be. Some other benefits just coming to terms of employment and community engagement. Certainly jobs for all the concessions operations, custodial, maintenance and professional and increased economic activity that will also help drive when it comes to stadium commerce. But from a community engagement side of things, certainly we are very excited of the potential volunteer and fund raising partnership opportunities that will become available as well. The timeline, which everybody is always curious about. Construction is happening as we speak. Hundreds of people out there every day, working on the site. From an under ground utilities and deep foundations and structural concrete. I see it happening right outside of our facility. A lot of concrete, a lot of steel beams, a lot of pounding of those beams. When it is not happening on-site, I feel like it is happening in my head because it is a really noisy site up there. But we are all on progress for that overall completion around April and May of 2027. Some additional renderings to take a look at. You see the scoreboard right there. As you continue to go through, the lobby of the performance center. Right there is our training table and one of our great hospitality areas that you will see throughout the venue. And I will certainly conclude with an awesome aerial of what -- what our first-ever on-campus game-changing stadium will look like. Then let's take a quick look at the video as well. If they will cue up the video.

03:16:50PM CCTV, if you have the video. Nearly four million strong. And at the heart of it all, the University of South Florida. Just 70 years young and charging ahead. Home to the top medical school in the state. A preeminent university and a proud member of the prestigious aau. Rise in academics is matched by the surge of athletics. USF football in 30 years is crashing the gates of football's elite, ranking two in the polls. But never had a true home until now. Cathedral belt for college football seats over 35,000. The campus will come to life and tents and rvs will build fan zones that go across every inch of green space. At the champion's walk, thousands of passionate students and fans will trek across campus energizing and filling the stadium with thunderous energy. Tens of thousands alumni and fans join in on game day celebrations. Some relaxing in luxury suites. Others in exclusive club areas. Below, more fans enjoy the students in the stands, revelling in that electric game day atmosphere. This is more than just a stadium. It is a statement. A new home. A new era! And it all begins now! It up for any questions. I referenced how incredible this will be for our 50,000 students, but then when you think of our 400,000 living alumni. I am a proud graduate of the University of South Florida. I am the son of two graduates of the University of South Florida and the brother of a USF graduate. To think of the opportunity for fellow graduates to come back for the very first time and check out just how much USF has grown since graduation. Many alums on City Council as well. I think this is going to be a venue that will make all of us really, really proud. So with that, I certainly will open it up to any questions you may have for our delegation here.

03:19:18PM Council member Maniscalco and then council member Miranda.

Guido Maniscalco

03:19:20PM Thank you very much. Go bulls. I am a proud, you know, USF graduate and I like that, a cathedral to college football. Great line. But how exciting. I graduated in 2007. And, you know, it was the sun dome. And the main campus there. And football games at raymond James. Having our own stadium is huge. And I think what it will do is that Fowler Avenue corridor. We talk of fowler, fletcher, busch, a big area. I think to Dr. Genshaft, when she was the boss, 15 years ago, you know, asking for help in that area. We see what is happening at university mall and the changes there. I think with this further growth, the stadium is a huge place. You want a place you can call home. Not sharing a stadium with -- with the buccaneers, which is great, but as you have shown here, this is very exciting. So thank you very much.

Alan Clendenin

03:20:23PM Council member Miranda.

Charlie Miranda

03:20:25PM I think graduate of Jesuit High School.

03:20:28PM I just know how to spell it because I went to Jefferson. Congratulations on being who you are. I think the stadium will sell out. I think that. But you also now -- college football is like an aaa team in baseball, because now you need the cash to do what you want to do. No one can do that better than you. I appreciate what you have done in the past. I am sure you will be a leader like you have always been, especially with the bulls. Congratulations to you. And we will be looking to buy season tickets. Thank you very much.

Alan Clendenin

03:21:00PM Councilwoman Hurtak.

Lynn Hurtak

03:21:02PM So 35,000, right.

03:21:05PM Why so small. I am seriously asking. New York grad. 90,000. Why so small? Is there is a plan for expansion? We wanted to make sure we created a lot of demand around it. If you look at our season ticket and overall game average, and you look at it from the last several years, that would make it to be one of the best environments of all of college football regardless of how many people are in there. But we certainly have built it with the strategy of having an opportunity to expand when the time is right.

03:21:47PM What would the expansion look like because it is not -- well, it is my money because state money and others. But I am just very curious because I don't want you to have to rebuild it too soon. What is the max capacity you are looking at when looking at expansions? Before we go ahead and conform the details on phase two. But from -- I know we are going to make sure that we can accommodate everybody and anybody who needs -- once we have phase one locked in and go from there.

Alan Clendenin

03:22:23PM Just remember this public hearing is just --

Lynn Hurtak

03:22:26PM I am just disappointed.

Alan Clendenin

03:22:28PM I think you will find -- I asked that question of the groundbreaking. How it is designed it -- ready to be scalable for sure. And I want to make sure it gets off on the right foot.

03:22:41PM Anybody else have any questions. Councilwoman Young? This is a public hearing just about the -- about the development agreement. Any other questions of the campus development agreement? Anybody in the public who wishes to speak to this item? Hearing none. Thank you, rob. Sorry, I didn't get your name.

03:23:12PM Hi, hillary. Good to see. A motion to close.

Lynn Hurtak

03:23:16PM We can't -- we can't close because we were asked first --

Rebecca Johns

03:23:21PM To remind everybody when the second public hearing. Say it before the public hearing is closed.

Alan Clendenin

03:23:29PM I missed that, teacher.

Lynn Hurtak

03:23:31PM That's why I'm here.

Alan Clendenin

03:23:33PM Second public hearing December 18, 10:30 a.m. on 315 East Kennedy Boulevard Tampa, Florida, 33606 -- 33602. I live in 33606.

Rebecca Johns

03:23:51PM At 10:30.

Alan Clendenin

03:23:54PM Are you kidding me, Councilwoman Hurtak. Will let me get away from that. A motion to close from Councilwoman Hurtak. Seconded from council member Miranda. All in favor, say aye. Opposed. Ayes have it. 42. Good luck tonight. Take care. Go bulls.

Stephanie Pope

03:24:24PM Stephanie Pope, land development. Item 42 is rez-25-45. The property of 302 North Oregon Avenue suite a and b, to rezone from IG to rm-24 residential multifamily. Does council have any questions?

Alan Clendenin

03:24:49PM Hearing none.

Charlie Miranda

03:24:52PM I will make a comment -- [inaudible]

Alan Clendenin

03:24:58PM Microphone. Council member Miranda, put your microphone on.

Charlie Miranda

03:25:03PM I reviewed 42-47, I believe -- 48.

Alan Clendenin

03:25:10PM You are the applicant. Richard Robinson.

03:25:19PM Anything you want us to know or you are here for questions. It is on the way.

03:25:27PM Perfect. Very good. Anything else you wanted to add, you are welcome to add.

03:25:33PM Anybody in the public wish to talk to item 42?

Charlie Miranda

03:25:38PM Motion to close.

Lynn Hurtak

03:25:39PM Second.

Alan Clendenin

03:25:41PM All in favor, say aye. Opposed. The ayes have it. Council member Miranda, read item 42.

Charlie Miranda

03:25:48PM Item 42, ordinance for second reading and adoption, an ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity of 302 North Oregon Avenue suite a and b in the City of Tampa, Florida, and more particularly described from IG to rm-24, providing an effective date.

Guido Maniscalco

03:26:08PM Second.

Alan Clendenin

03:26:10PM Please record your vote.

Clerk

03:26:12PM Motion carried unanimously with Viera being absent at vote.

Alan Clendenin

03:26:18PM Thank you. Just as you wanted. Item 43.

Stephanie Pope

03:26:25PM Good afternoon, Stephanie Pope, Development Coordination. Item 43, rez-25-89. This item was a rezoning request for the property located at 2012 Lindsey Street. The request is to rezone from rm-15, residential multifamily to PD, Planned Development for single-family semi-detached. Revision has been completed and plans have been submited to the clerk's office. I am available if you have any questions.

Alan Clendenin

03:26:54PM Council have any questions? Hearing none. Applicant? Is there an applicant for this one? Anyone in the public who wishes too speak to item 43.

Charlie Miranda

03:27:06PM Motion to close.

Guido Maniscalco

03:27:09PM Second.

Alan Clendenin

03:27:10PM All in favor, say aye. Opposed. Ayes have it. Councilman Carlson. Read item 43.

Bill Carlson

03:27:17PM Move item number 43, rez-25-9. Ordinance being presented for second reading and adoption, ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity of 2012 Linsey Street in the City of Tampa, Florida, more particularly described in section 1 from district classification rm-16 residential multifamily to PD Planned Development, residential, single-family, semi detached providing an effective date.

Guido Maniscalco

03:27:46PM Second.

Alan Clendenin

03:27:47PM Please record your vote.

Clerk

03:27:50PM Motion carried unanimously with Viera being absent at vote.

Alan Clendenin

03:27:54PM Item 44.

Stephanie Pope

03:27:56PM Good afternoon, Stephanie Pope, Development Coordination. Item number 44, file no.rez-25-92. Rezoning request for the property 1541 West La Salle Street. The request so rezone from IG, industrial general to rm-24. Residential multifamily. It is an euclidian rezoning so no site plans. I am available if you have any questions.

Alan Clendenin

03:28:23PM Council have any questions? Hearing none.

Charlie Miranda

03:28:26PM Move to close.

Guido Maniscalco

03:28:28PM Second.

Alan Clendenin

03:28:29PM All in favor, say aye. Opposed. Ayes have it. Councilwoman Young, read item 44.

Naya Young

03:28:34PM File number rez-25-929, ordinance second reading and adoption. Ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity of 1541 West La Salle Street in the city Tampa, Florida, and more particularly described in the section 1 from zoning district classification IG, industrial general to rm-24, residential multifamily, providing an effective date.

Alan Clendenin

03:29:00PM A second from council member Maniscalco. Please record your vote.

Clerk

03:29:05PM Motion carried unanimously with Viera being absent at vote.

Alan Clendenin

03:29:14PM Thank you. Item number 45.

Stephanie Pope

03:29:16PM Stephanie Pope, land development. Item 45, file no.rez-25-the 8. For 1302 North Oregon Avenue from rs-50 to rm-18. This is a euclidian zoning and nobody site plan. If council are have any questions.

Alan Clendenin

03:29:45PM Council have any questions. Applicant here? Hearing none. Anyone to speak for the application? Motion to close. From council member Miranda. Seconded from council member Maniscalco. All in favor, say aye. Opposed. Councilwoman Hurtak.

Lynn Hurtak

03:29:59PM File number file no.rez-25-98. Ordinance being presented for second reading and adoption, an ordinance rezoning property in 1302 North Oregon Avenue in the City of Tampa, Florida, and more particularly described in section 1, zoning district rs-50 residential task force to are,m-18 residential multifamily providing an effective date.

Charlie Miranda

03:30:26PM Second.

Alan Clendenin

03:30:27PM Please record your vote.

Clerk

03:30:30PM Motion carried unanimously with Viera being absent at vote Clendenin thank you, item 46.

Stephanie Pope

03:30:39PM Stephanie Pope, land Development Coordination. Item number 46 file no.rez-25-1508. For 5705, 5707 north 22nd street, 2206, 2208, 2212, 2212b, 2214, 2215, 2400 (units 100-338), 2401, 2403, 2815 (a1-a4), 2815 (b1-b4), 2815 (c1), 2815 (d1-d10) and 2905 East Henry Avenue. The request to rezone from pd-a to hd-a for business. Professional and medical, congregate living facility, residential treatment facility, recovery home a and b, life care treatment facility, residential, residential, multifamily, hospital, day care, school and for parcel 5 only. All CI uses. I am available if you have any questions.

Alan Clendenin

03:31:48PM Hearing none. Is there an applicant. I'm here to answer questions, but I don't have anything to add.

03:31:57PM I tried to call you back, by the way.

03:32:00PM Anyone to speak on item 46?

Guido Maniscalco

03:32:05PM Motion.

Charlie Miranda

03:32:06PM Second.

Alan Clendenin

03:32:06PM All in favor, say aye. Opposed. Ayes have it. Council member Maniscalco. I am sure there is a lottery number in there somewhere.

Guido Maniscalco

03:32:14PM Ordinance presented for second reading and adoption, ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity of 5705 and 5707 north 22nd street, 2206, 2208, 2212, 2212b, 2214, 2215, 2400 (units 100-338), 2401, 2403, 2815 (a1-a4), 2815 (b1-b4), 2815 (c1), 2815 (d1-d10) and 2905 East Henry Avenue in the City of Tampa, Florida, more particularly described in section 1 from zoning district classification pd-a Planned Development alternative to pd-a Planned Development, alternative, business. Professional and Medical Office, congregate living facility, residential treatment facility, recovery home a and b, life care treatment, and CI uses.

Charlie Miranda

03:33:14PM Second.

Alan Clendenin

03:33:14PM Please record your vote.

Clerk

03:33:17PM Motion carried unanimously with Viera being absent at vote.

Alan Clendenin

03:33:24PM Item number 47.

Stephanie Pope

03:33:26PM Stephanie Pope, Development Coordination. Item number 47, rez-25-24. This item rezoning request for the property located at 3075 North Rocky Point Drive. The request is to rezone from PD Planned Development to PD Planned Development for residential multifamily high-rise. Revisions have been completed and certified plans have been submitted to the clerk's office. I am available for any questions.

Alan Clendenin

03:33:51PM Council have any questions? Hearing none. I am here to any questions as well as item 48.

03:34:03PM Anybody have any questions? Anyone in the audience wish to have any questions? Councilman Carlson, read item 47.

Guido Maniscalco

03:34:19PM What about him.

Charlie Miranda

03:34:20PM That's right, I am not here.

Alan Clendenin

03:34:22PM Council member Miranda. Read item 47.

Charlie Miranda

03:34:26PM File no. number rez-25-24. Ordinance presented for second reading and adoption, an ordinance of 3075 North Rocky Point Drive in the City of Tampa, Florida, and more particularly described from PD Planned Development to PD Planned Development, residential multifamily high-rise, providing an effective date.

Guido Maniscalco

03:34:47PM Second.

Alan Clendenin

03:34:48PM A motion and a second. Please record your vote.

Clerk

03:34:54PM Motion carried unanimously with Viera being absent at vote.

Alan Clendenin

03:35:02PM Motion from council member Miranda. Seconded from council member Maniscalco. All in favor, say aye. Opposed, the ayes have it. I wasn't forgetting, but waiting for a more complicating one.

Charlie Miranda

03:35:15PM Thank you for thinking of that that way.

Alan Clendenin

03:35:17PM Yes, exactly. Item number 48. That was the DRI.

03:35:30PM Any questions from the applicant? Anybody in the audience wish to speak to item 48? Hearing none. A motion to close.

Guido Maniscalco

03:35:41PM So moved.

Lynn Hurtak

03:35:42PM Second.

Alan Clendenin

03:35:45PM All in favor, say aye. Opposed. Councilman Carlson.

Bill Carlson

03:35:49PM Move item number 48, file no. DRI 25-14823. Ordinance presented for second read and an adoption. An ordinance of the City of Tampa, Florida, approving a eighth amount to a development order rendering the pursuant to chapter 380 Florida statutes bill to NR Chase property, owner LLC for rocker point for rocky point office and commercial park, previously approved development of regional impact provide an effective date.

Guido Maniscalco

03:36:22PM Second.

Alan Clendenin

03:36:23PM Please record your vote.

Clerk

03:36:25PM Motion carried unanimously with Viera being absent at vote.

Alan Clendenin

03:36:34PM Are we good.

Bill Carlson

03:36:36PM Mr. Chair --

Alan Clendenin

03:36:41PM Mr. Shelby.

Martin Shelby

03:36:42PM With regard to item 49, the agenda stated that Carlson voted no. after speaking with Mr. Carlson and the clerk. I want that to be corrected that at first reading he was absent on first reading on November 20.

Bill Carlson

03:36:58PM Do we need to vote. Also, Mr. Chair -- Mr. Chair --

Charlie Miranda

03:37:11PM My new phone and I don't know --

Bill Carlson

03:37:15PM I thought you said you never brought them. On the advice of council, I am going to abstain from 49 and 50 unfortunately on advice of counsel. Abstaining pursuant to section 286.012, Florida statute out of an abundance of caution to ensure a fair proceeding free from potential bias and prejudice. I would like to make a motion to receive and file my forms a and b for 49 and 50.

Alan Clendenin

03:37:41PM A motion to file his forms to abstain from Councilman Carlson. A seconded from council member Miranda. All in favor to accept the form, say aye. Opposed. Ayes have it unanimously. Item number 49.

Leo Debardeleben

03:37:54PM Good afternoon, Leo Debardeleben. Item number 49 ab2-25-20. Request for application for small beverage sales for beer, wine and liquor, consumption on-premises only. Site plan modifications were required between first and second reading. Those changes have been made and certified plans have been supplied to the clerk. I am available for questions.

Alan Clendenin

03:38:22PM Does council have any questions? Just to verify, you have the hours that were placed on first and second.

Leo Debardeleben

03:38:29PM All the changes of the site plan that were discussed during the first hearing have been made.

Lynn Hurtak

03:38:34PM Can you put the site plan on the wolf so we can see that?

Leo Debardeleben

03:38:38PM I have -- I will put up -- the --

Alan Clendenin

03:38:43PM I think that is a critical element to this.

Leo Debardeleben

03:38:45PM 9 p.m. Wednesday and Thursday and --

Lynn Hurtak

03:39:13PM If I remember correctly not just ab hours. Was it ab hours or hours of operation.

Leo Debardeleben

03:39:21PM Hours of operation. First hours of operation if you can see those.

Alan Clendenin

03:39:40PM We can't.

Lynn Hurtak

03:39:41PM Don't zoom out because it is small. Hours of operations. That is what I thought. Outside amplified sound was prohibited and something of not -- number 8, tables and chaired not in outside areas. And will constitute a substantial change arriving with City Council's approval. Wow that is even above and beyond.

Alan Clendenin

03:40:04PM That's good. Does council have any questions for staff? Applicant? Highlight all of those exact notes. I have nothing to add but happy to answer questions.

Luis Viera

03:40:21PM We are finished with the ones from November 14 or 13, correct?

Guido Maniscalco

03:40:26PM Yes.

Luis Viera

03:40:27PM Okay. Good. Disregard. I was going to say I wasn't here for those.

Alan Clendenin

03:40:32PM You were here for the second one either.

Luis Viera

03:40:35PM I know. I was -- I had a very good excuse. Watching kids in las vegas.

Alan Clendenin

03:40:42PM Very good. Anybody in the public who wish to speak to item 49? Just to verify, everybody has been sworn? Okay.

Martin Shelby

03:41:21PM If you were here, please acknowledge your presence. Virginia smith. I don't see anyone responding. Adrian laramie, that is one person. Pamela collier. Two additional minutes. A total of three plus two is five. My name is sandy sanchez. A couple of week ago, I attended the second reading for beer, wine and liquor for 40 East Davis Boulevard. I was alarmed when I heard the applicant was making for beer and wine license for a ice cream shop or maybe a restaurant. Changes had to be made between first and second reading. But none of those changes had anything to do with the waivers they are basically restrictions. Alcoholic beverage can only be consumed indoors, and no tables or chairs can be placed in any of the outdoor areas. No outside music and limited hours of operation. My concern is the safety of the children. A mix of children and the drinkers. Not such a good idea. I see that the applicant added a children's library in the interior and the possibility of playground equipment in the back. The dining room must not have children. Can you imagine a child with an ice cream cone in one hand, a book on other hand, and the ice cream melting. A playground where parents will have to stand with no tables and chairs allowed. Can you -- you can you envision that. I don't think so. It appears as if the applicant wants a beer and wine license just in case the ice cream parlor fails. They should do so when appropriate but not now. He given you a copy of the last staff report. On page 4, section 4 on general standards, complying with general standards, this project does not meet the criteria. Number one, the destruction of the quality of life is not considered for this neighborhood. Number two, the waivers are needed for them to comply. Number three, this definitely is not a necessity. And number four, there is no way waivers would not affect the neighborhood. The waivers will set a precedent for future development. If you turn to page 3, I believe this says it all. All the requests for waivers were found inconsistent. City Council woman gwen Henderson, god bless her, made that statement several times at various City Council meetings that the employees of the City of Tampa are hired professionals. They review applications for items that are not always beneficial to the city and surrounding neighborhoods. These professionals have found every waiver in this application for beer and wine to be inconsistent. I understand the citizens of Davis island are fearful of becoming the next soho. They are justified in thinking this. And this happens, your decision tonight will have a lot to do with it. Please adhere to the recommendations found by the City staff as inconsistent and deny this applicant's request. Thank you.

Alan Clendenin

03:44:50PM Thank you. Next speaker.

Martin Shelby

03:44:53PM Mr. Brown Has debra brown as a name. Is debra brown here? One additional minute.

Alan Clendenin

03:45:24PM Start with your name, and you have four minutes. My name is Gary brown, and I own the closest single-family property to this application. I also helped write the Davis island community plan that I am passing out to you. In November of -- excuse me, 2007 City Council, including Mr. Miranda, Approved the Davis island community plan following the community approval in June. The plan provides a vision for the island's future, focusing on maintaining a small town feel and enhancing community identity. Key elements include creating a more walkable and pedestrian-friendly village center with low-scale buildings and mixed use, as well as protecting surrounding residential uses. On a daily basis, individual residence, business leaders, investors, community organizations, elected officials, and government agencies make decisions that can impact Davis Islands, and how it grows and changes over time. Plan intended to provide a framework for these decisions. And of a particular action will move to achieving its division, our shared vision will be in the future. Plan is a guiding document. To document for specific statements for completing the community vision. Such statements pertaining to the revisions to local laws, ordinances and development codes. Page 5 of the plan under the section "getting around," I have tabbed for reference the vision statement that says that park is a commodity that is carefully managed. Problems of parking shortages have been resolved. On page 9 of the plan under the section "village center." Tabbed the reference with the following statement. Village center and surrounding residential uses live in harmony. The side effects such as traffic, parking, loading and unloading, noise, trash disposal and litter have been resolved. So council, you need to ask yourself four simple questions of a beer and wine use in the southern edge of this village of public necessity. Is the beer and wine use in conformity with the comprehensive plan? In this case, you must also include the Davis island community plan because it was it was adopted by City Council. Did you see it set a precedent and encourage more intensive and more incompatible uses to the surrounding area? Is the beer and wine use in this location at the southern edge of the village compatible in harmony with the contiguous surrounding relation properties? If this applicant is granted, it will cause the largest outdoor beer and wine sales area in the entire village, over 3,000 square feet which is host large gatherings of several hundred people, and I promise you they are not all arriving on foot. So I please ask to you consider this and deny it. Thank you.

03:48:48PM Thank you. Next speaker. Start with your name, please.

Martin Shelby

03:49:29PM Has one name, Stephanie poynor.

Alan Clendenin

03:49:35PM Start with your name. You have four minutes.

03:50:02PM CCTV, can you put the wolf up on the public monitor please. That is strange. For some reason, we are seeing double images. I don't know what I hit.

03:50:31PM Don't hit buttons. It imploded.

Martin Shelby

03:50:36PM Maybe somebody can assist.

Alan Clendenin

03:50:39PM CCTV. She hit a button. If it is acceptable to you -- Alan Clendenin: it is okay. We will wait for you.

Lynn Hurtak

03:50:56PM Yay! I want to show the whole page. Yeah. Thank you very much. You win a prize.

Guido Maniscalco

03:51:13PM I don't want anything. Debbie zamerman, corsica. I have been sworn. I won't cover everything that I covered in last meeting. You have a binder that went into the record. I appreciate that and appreciate the comments from Councilwoman Hurtak and council member Maniscalco. I have a motion helper to help you address some of the issues that I am talking about. You just heard of the significant issues that relate to parking. Parking is a huge issue with this request. If you go in and you -- I have given you some math on the parking that I will refer back to. But with this request and combine with a companion request, we will have an increase in the parking deficiency of over 198 -- 198 spaces. What I have done here is you look at the property data table. Within the site plan, the building occupancy is 44 persons. Occupancy a-2 with less than 50 occupants and waiving 109 spaces with this site. All in all with what is going on here, you can have 435 people if my math is correct. That 109 parking spaces will be deficient. Right now, we only have in downtown Davis island, 62 working spaces. Already when I go there -- I lived on the island since 2002. Many people will attest you can't get a parking space. Go we have a parking issue with 26. What that will be increasing 198 from this application and the next application. I put into the record several pieces of communication, which address the fact that this will create huge increase in occupancy in area and a parking deficiency. I put into the record, and it I will address in just a minute, but I will do it right now. A number of staff reports where you go in and you address the adverse impacts. When you have -- this one says "the lack of off-street parking will have negative impacts," and they go to neighborhood impact, safety concern, Planning, and land use. All the time you deny requests because they don't have parking. This one right here, they even offered to have parking via an agreement off-site. In this case, the off-site parking. Zoning for the off-site parking didn't meet the criteria, and they had a problem with it. Nobody asked them to consider the off-site parking. If you look the green space in the back, you can probably have five spaces. Why that was never used for parking, we don't know, but via a design exception which is allowed for occupancy of less than 50 spaces that was only given -- I don't have the date, but April this year. April this year, there was design exception where they have a parking waiver for five spaces even when they have the space to have it. Right on the alley and within months, they come back to you and they say, oh, we need to have enough parking waivers to support 435 people. This is an idea of what will be gathered. Huge gathering. Cornhole and things like that have been mentioned from the applicant and documentation in the record. You have the potential of being a South Howard scenario and lack of parking also creates huge issues within the neighborhood, create dangerous situations, and we can't afford -- the downtown Davis Islands can't sustain that many people. Thank you so much.

Alan Clendenin

03:55:25PM Thank you, Debbie. Next speaker. I came to oppose this special request. They are asking for a 39-foot reduction in buffer. So 39 feet. When we were out here this morning, we didn't have alcohol or ice cream. Someone came out and asked us all to be quiet because we were being too loud for what was happening in here. So I feel it's a bad look for my neighbors, because their bedroom windows are close to where this back yard ice cream 03:56:02pm place is going to be. I wanted to fill you in a little bit of on Mr. Patel and how 03:56:07pm he has come into the Davis Islands area. He has leased and purchased many properties in the retail area, okay. He has 220 east. He has the pizza building that is shuttered up. He bought the fountain restaurant that has alcohol and parking. Shuttered up. Boards in the window. That is in the middle of the retail district where people aren't trying to put their kids to bed. He bought the corner bar, a functioning business. He shuttered, boards on the windows. And he bought the bank of america building. A big paved building with bank of america. He continued to pave over it so it is fully paved. And then he put fence around it and a pickleball court and a basketball field across from kiki's and made it a private pickleball club for his family and friends. He is asking can I have alcohol here on the corner right by where everybody sleeps and sit on their back porch instead of where he has businesses and leases in the center of the town. Not only that, but was saying that the park was bad, Debbie. But the situation where he shuttered so many businesses. I can't imagine when he opens them, if he opens them, additional parking will be necessary for what he is anticipating. So that is my two cents. You should know the whole picture. I don't know why he is asking for that corner. It just seems really pointless. Doesn't seem it is necessary if he already has leases in these other buildings with alcohol and seating and outdoor. Fountain has a little -- he turned it into some kind of putt-putt or something. Just abandoned. Not being used. Please consider this in your decision making.

03:57:52PM Thank you. Carroll ann. I really cannot understand the incentive to approve this. Land development staff and the Transportation Department both found it inconsistent. It violates the code and the Davis Islands community plan. Why would you want to approve it? What is the motivation? People have a right to predictability and consistency. They have a right to decide if they want to live near when a business sells alcohol, full stop. That's it. If you approve this, you are taking that away from them and that is wrong. If you deny this, it does not infringe on the right of the new tenant. They knew alcohol sales weren't allowed. If they can't run a business without the alcohol, they shouldn't have leased the property that that simple and obvious. It is a self-created hardship. When do you hold people responsible for their decision as soon as when do you require them to do their due diligence? How is it the responsibility of the neighbors to make the sacrifices? Why would you take a way the citizen's right to determine where they want to live. Council going to give the leasee three accommodations they have no right to and tell neighbors they have to suck it up. People who want the three waivers more important than the neighbors, and if the applicant can only run a business if they sell alcohol and only with seven parking spaces, they should have leased a place not 200 feet from residential and only requires seven parking spaces that is real estate due diligence. How is it the city's responsibility to waive rules just because someone doesn't want the rules to apply to them? Since when the burden of residents give up their right to satisfy someone's whim. Since when are the whims of a new tenant more important than our land development code, our community plans and rights of citizens. Accommodating schemes is not your job. And residents should not have their protections ripped away. How is this applicant's scheme more important than the neighbors' rights? If you approve this, how are you going to deny the next one and the next one. I don't care what anybody says, this is a precedent. How many hours have people spent in this chamber bemoaning the negative effect of the wet zoning that council has approved. If the rules for alcohol sales are wrong, then do the transparent honest thing and change the rules. Exemptions are killing with us with 100 paper cuts. You are creating burnout in our citizens. Either follow the rules or change them. If the citizens do not support a change in the rules, what more do you need to know. Governing this way is the poorest. Thank you.

04:00:59PM Next speaker. They showed me. I came in at 8:30, and I wanted to do it right. I wanted to show you a slide I think it is this way. That the PC? Okay. You want me to try it. Kind of like a split screen. Let's see. Hold on. Guys. Can I approach? Alan Clendenin: give you a couple of seconds to try to resolve that. If not, you can e-mail it to me and I will plug my laptop. Well, I did test it out this morning. It is not working now. So I apologize.

04:02:44PM Can you proceed with the presentation. Is this --

04:02:49PM Start with your name. You have three minutes. We have technical assistance. And then that. It wants to do something -- there it is. Thank you. Sorry. Appreciate the help there. Excellent.

04:03:16PM Glad it worked out for you. Talked about some of the things I wanted to cover, but I wanted to show you this here. We have been given a lot of information but I wanted to show you this. Right in the middle.

04:03:37PM CCTV, can you put the presentation up on the public monitors.

04:03:45PM Go ahead. Okay, so right here we have the 340 east Davis. That is what the applicant is asking the special exceptions for. They are asking for 39 feet. That it where it would be put. 250 that you have in law and ordinance is right on the black circle. You can see that that basically is right on top of Gary brown's house, also my house. Mine is 135 feet away. Pat green, who spoke to you, he is about 205 feet away. Amy saying earlier, one of the speaker, just hearing noises, you can go ahead and unamplified any kind of sound will carry. I want to show that to you. Don't allow this to happen. Next slide will show you the revisions of the hours. That is all fine and dandy. We love ice cream. I know all of you guys do as well. We are not talking about ice cream. We are not talking of ice cream. We are talking of beer and wine sales right next to people who thought they had 250 feet. They don't -- they didn't think 39 feet. What will it be next time, 19 feet, 5 feet, a foot? Please don't allow them to do this. You can see Gary brown, scat defrates, pat green. People came to spoke to you. I remember you guys say you didn't have support. Back on October 30. What did I do? I talked to a bunch of people and got 135 names of people do not want it. I saw on my phone today, some of the public comment, the last ones that you guys recorded eight of those said no. please don't do it. Look it up for yourselves. Only one said go ahead and go through with the alcohol. Not the ice cream. We love ice cream. I know you love ice cream. I love ice cream. Everybody does. We are looking forward to it. And I already talked to nicky. I will be first one in line to get ice cream at his new place. This is what some of the people out there was saying. When I am putting my kids up to bed hearing up to you 400 people in the back yard. Allowing more beer and wine in dense, walkable areas. Driving incidents of impaired driving and accidents. You can read the rest. Davis island civic association said no. they came before the association and they said no. this is not a good thing. Council member Bill Carlson. I just was informed now isn't saying anything, but did say no at the first part. 135 verified signatures. Vote no to enjoy health and a safe place to raise children. We are not opposed to ice cream. We are opposed to beer and wine and stuff right in our back yard. Thank you so much.

04:06:33PM Thank you. Next speaker.

Martin Shelby

04:06:36PM Please acknowledge your presence. Berger, gomez. Let's try another one, tina miraz. Do you see any of these people behind you?

04:07:03PM Where are they?

04:07:07PM Okay. We were packed this morning I understand.

Alan Clendenin

04:07:15PM Start with your name. You have three minutes. I am bob berger. You heard enough of the technical merits and the site plan. I will like to focus my brief time on what I believe is lack of merit of this special request. And if I may, and you will allow me to speak as a subject matter expert on responsible development. I know many of you well. Some not at all. I spent my career as a commercial developer running trammell crow first for the State of Florida doing projects like the marriott water site that I developed in 2000. I left trammell to begin Mr. Vinik's strategic partnership coordinating the assembly, master plan, coin plan, and the medical school. And most importantly, the concept of placemaking. Compatible development. If I may -- and I also had the opportunity to serve as the chair of the overhaul of our land use code under mayor buckhorn. So I know a bit about code and a bit about development. I was compelled to return even though I am retired. I used to be zoning chair for six years. Key to successful development is placemaking. Placemaking involves being responsive to the community and surrounds. Our goal, as drafted, is intended to support that. Placemaking includes development and creates value for the surround area and is responsive to the community. Our village is small. You can almost run a tape measure across its length. And traditionally, it has had uses that served the community, hardware stores, groceriese, and, yeah, banks, restaurants and bars -- and now a few more bars. End uses -- end uses at the end of the village adjacent to residential were also buffer uses as code intended. Banks and law firms. Gas stations. Groceries. Restaurants and bars as they exist have had always been to date reasonable in scale, consistent with the character of the village and what code allows. In spaces, low density. They need compatible uses. They need to be respectful to the adjacent properties. This request is none of these. 30 seconds. Thank you. You heard from the passionate residents. Reduction from 250 to 39. That door to that door is 40 feet. Ice cream use I believe is a convenient, if you will, cover, if I may. What it most enhance is the value of the pickleball court across the street to have alcohol beverage service and that level of density. This is a violation of required separation of alcohol from residential uses.

04:10:21PM Thank you. Time this afternoon.

04:10:28PM Have a nice afternoon. Okay, rebuttal? I will keep this very brief because we had quite the robust discussion at the last reading. Some mention about precedence and compatibility. I just wanted to -- throw this slide back up on screen. This was in our original presentation. And commercial zoning is commercial zonings. We have obviously gone above and beyond to commit to no outdoor amplified sound to any limited ab sales hours, closing extremely early, but this is commercial zoning. If this is supposed to be a buffer and compatible, then you are artificially reducing limits. This block even though an end cap is still commercial. I wanted to address that. And wanted to remark that there are a couple of comments of the waivers and the distance separation. We are requesting that in balance with the fact we are making these commitments that are above and beyond. If we were asking chapter 14 to sell liquor until 3 a.m., there would be compatibility issues with waivers. We have went above and beyond to make this extremely. And just a reminder, this did receive unanimous approval at our second first reading. All we have done is change the hours of operation on the site plan and added a note that we can't have tables and chairs out back. That is the only thing that has changed from the last hearing that we have. So with that, I am happy to answer any questions or give any further clarification that you may need.

04:12:10PM Council have any questions? Hearing none.

Lynn Hurtak

04:12:17PM Motion to close.

Luis Viera

04:12:19PM Second.

Alan Clendenin

04:12:20PM All in favor, say aye. Opposed. Aye have it. Where did we leave off. Councilwoman Young. Do you want to read item 49?

Naya Young

04:12:33PM Ordinance being presented for second reading -- file number ab 2-25-20, ordinance presented for second reading and adoption, ordinance approving a special use permit su-2 for alcohol beverage sales, small venue, consumption assumption on premises only, making lawful the sale of beer and wine at or from that certain lot, plot or tract of land located 340 East Davis Boulevard, Tampa, Florida, more particularly described in section 2, providing all ordinances and parts of ordinances in conflict are repealed; providing an effective date.

Alan Clendenin

04:13:13PM We have a motion from Councilwoman Young and a second from council member Viera. Councilwoman Hurtak.

Lynn Hurtak

04:13:22PM I just wanted to mention something. We had folks talk today of the fact that -- is that staff found inconsistent because of waivers and triggers an inconsistent. Whether or not staff agrees they have to call it inconsistent. I wanted to make sure we clarify that because that is the rule.

Alan Clendenin

04:13:51PM Council member Maniscalco.

Guido Maniscalco

04:13:52PM I mentioned at the last hearing I would think of this further and with regards to where the property was and the distance separation and the buffer. I will state on the record that I drove down the main drive with the Christmas and where the trees lit up. I drove to another event at Davis island. I passed by it.

Martin Shelby

04:14:27PM So you are seeing -- you visited the site.

Guido Maniscalco

04:14:29PM I drove by it.

Martin Shelby

04:14:33PM You are going to make what you are going to say relevant to the fact that what you observed is part of your observations?

Guido Maniscalco

04:14:38PM Yes.

Martin Shelby

04:14:39PM Okay. I recommend that you reopen the hearing for those purposes.

Alan Clendenin

04:14:43PM Because you are providing testimony.

Luis Viera

04:14:46PM So moved to reopen if necessary --

Guido Maniscalco

04:14:51PM Okay.

Martin Shelby

04:14:52PM The reason I am doing that if did you do a site visit, the recommendation.

Alan Clendenin

04:14:59PM We should reopen the hearings with the atmosphere. A motion from council member Viera to reopen. Second from Councilwoman Hurtak. All in favor, say aye. Opposed. Ayes have it. Hearing is reopened. Council member Maniscalco.

Martin Shelby

04:15:11PM Say what you are going to say.

Guido Maniscalco

04:15:13PM I was headed to another event at the end of the island. It had nothing to do with this, and I passed down that main corridor. What you see in person -- and I pulled up on apple maps -- I mentioned this at the previous hearing is it is the last commercial building. Last buffer before you get to the residential. There is a house right there. And seeing that, you know, that -- that gives me pause and makes me reconsider because, yeah, there are provisions and -- on the site plan about what -- what is outdoor, what is allowed and what is amplified. The hours and everything. If this business fails what will come next. That goes with the land. That is my concern, and I will be a no vote on that.

Martin Shelby

04:16:00PM With that being said, because -- and this is -- this is just for the purpose of the record and the purpose of informing council. If you were going to do something like a site visit or do something that is actually testifying, that is permitted under Florida statutes, but what you need to do is you need to give the opportunity of the applicant or the petitioner's representative to be able to address it and rebut it. And we do that. That is why I suggested that be done during the public hearing if you do the site visit or some testimony based on your own personal experience rather been being outside of public hearing. If something that wants to be addressed. I see the applicant shaking his head no. we have nothing to rebut. There was a comment of amplified sound. That runs with the land. Doesn't change. That doesn't change your vote. That is clear. I don't anything to rebut.

Lynn Hurtak

04:16:58PM Motion to close --

Alan Clendenin

04:17:01PM Can I say something -- I can say it after I close. Motion to close from Councilwoman Hurtak. Second from --

Naya Young

04:17:09PM I have a question.

Alan Clendenin

04:17:10PM Councilwoman Young.

Naya Young

04:17:15PM Anything that would happen, it would have to come back to council, right?

Martin Shelby

04:17:21PM That is a question for staff. And depends what you mean anything that would happen. What are you contemplating, a change of use or something like that? A full range of what is possible to happen?

Leo Debardeleben

04:17:33PM Leo Debardeleben, land Development Coordination. Yes, ma'am, the site plan is binding. The conditions of the operation there. Anything that they would propose to change will need to come in front of you.

Naya Young

04:17:47PM Okay. Alan Clendenin: just for clarification because something that was said during the hearing. Items and restrictions on the site plan carry with the land as well.

Leo Debardeleben

04:17:58PM That's correct.

Alan Clendenin

04:18:01PM I want people to have a clear understanding. Councilwoman Hurtak.

Lynn Hurtak

04:18:02PM They can never have chairs and benches. If they chooses to turn into a restaurant, they will not have any seating outside and they are going to have to close at 9 and 10 p.m., and it can not change.

Martin Shelby

04:18:16PM I don't know if whether that is the case.

Dana Crosby Collier

04:18:19PM Dana Crosby Collier from the city attorney's office. Just to remind you, it is a restaurant. The small venue is the restaurant.

Lynn Hurtak

04:18:27PM I apologize, but still no ability to add tables and chairs outside because on the site plan you can't.

Alan Clendenin

04:18:33PM If they turn it into anything else, restrictions on-site plan remain the same. If they start selling circus toys, it stays the same. Okay.

Lynn Hurtak

04:18:44PM Circus toys.

Martin Shelby

04:18:46PM If I can. I believe to answer your question, a site plan can be changed, but does require -- has to come back to council, is that correct? So whatever is on the site plan doesn't mean it runs with the land, it means it runs with that site plan. Am I misinterpreting?

Dana Crosby Collier

04:19:08PM Okay. Leo, do you want to -- they were having some discussion that I wasn't party too.

Leo Debardeleben

04:19:15PM Leo Debardeleben, land Development Coordination. Again, this is a different process than the rezoning where there is a process like the substantial change review. That doesn't exist for alcohol sales. They will be coming in front of you.

Alan Clendenin

04:19:31PM You guys want to caucus for a minute?

Dana Crosby Collier

04:19:42PM To clarify. Dana Crosby Collier, the issue -- just to clarify, the -- the specifics on the site plan cannot be changed unilaterally. It will take an action.

Alan Clendenin

04:19:54PM Action of council.

Dana Crosby Collier

04:19:56PM Yeah.

Alan Clendenin

04:19:57PM We have a new motion to close from council member Viera. Seconded from Councilwoman Hurtak of all in favor, say aye. Opposed.

Lynn Hurtak

04:20:06PM Can hers just stand. Can her motion -- just say restate the motion.

Martin Shelby

04:20:13PM You can do that. Just a reminder, not that I am taking any position or suggesting anything. But just a reminder for council that you know that -- that the maker of the motion -- by the making of the motion indicates that by roberts rules of order you are in favor of it and you have to vote affirmatively. A seconder can vote either yay or nay. But as a maker of the motion, indicates by making the motion, you are bound by roberts rules of order.

Alan Clendenin

04:20:47PM I have a legal question. We did this. We got this clarification from staff. But I did not give the applicant an opportunity before we close to rebut what staff said. I am certain they are not going to rebut it, but just to clean it up.

Martin Shelby

04:21:02PM It is always better.

Alan Clendenin

04:21:05PM A motion to open from council member Viera. Seconded from council member Maniscalco. All in favor, say aye. Opposed. Ayes have it. Would you like to rebut what was said. Tyler Hudson for the record. Just to be clear, there is something called a "substantial deviation," and that is the special use language where changes are rezoning, substantial deviations are the exact same thing but in special use vocabulary. If you have substantial deviations, you are right back here. Any of those conditions that we imposed on ourself through the site plan, if we change those, those would be a substantial deviation and we are right here. I didn't mean to rebut anyone.

04:21:51PM You just reconfirmed what we just said.

04:22:00PM You want to close before you talk.

Charlie Miranda

04:22:02PM The rules are the rules. What happens is if no one makes a motion to read a motion, you never vote on it. So somebody has got to make the motion.

Alan Clendenin

04:22:15PM We already did.

Charlie Miranda

04:22:17PM But however, knowing that, the maker of the motion turning to my right -- because I am not an attorney -- once you make the motion to approve, you have to vote in the affirmative. Rest of the council -- but the maker of the motion. I have been stuck there before.

Alan Clendenin

04:22:35PM I think we are good.

Martin Shelby

04:22:37PM Only thing I would like to add, Mr. Chairman -- sorry, Martin Shelby, City Council attorney. It doesn't necessarily mean you are bound from your motion. You can withdraw your motion for whatever reason based on competent, substantial evidence in the record in quasi-judicial hearing. You are not bound to do something. You have the right to withdraw.

Lynn Hurtak

04:23:00PM Motion to close it and I will read it.

Luis Viera

04:23:07PM To quote moses, let my people go. Close it.

Alan Clendenin

04:23:11PM Motion by Councilwoman Hurtak.

Lynn Hurtak

04:23:13PM We heard it. Motion to close.

Alan Clendenin

04:23:15PM Motion to close from Councilwoman Hurtak. Seconded from council member Viera. All in favor, say aye. Aye. Would you like -- you read this motion. Is it your intention to vote in the affirmative. Are you going to vote yes on this? That is what assumed. I was looking over your shoulder. Motion you read, you stand by the motion that you read?

Naya Young

04:23:40PM Yes.

Alan Clendenin

04:23:41PM A second from Councilwoman Hurtak. Very good. We have a motion, and we have a second. Please record your vote.

Clerk

04:23:48PM Motion carried with Miranda and Maniscalco voting no and Carlson abstaining.

Alan Clendenin

04:24:00PM Very good.

Guido Maniscalco

04:24:03PM Mr. Chairman, I am abstaining from item 50 as was stated previously. Do I have to state it again?

Martin Shelby

04:24:13PM I have a form, and I will give it to you --

Guido Maniscalco

04:24:17PM Two forms.

Martin Shelby

04:24:18PM Abstaining from --

Guido Maniscalco

04:24:22PM 50. The reason is the applicant is my family's landlord. Separate building. It is not on Davis island but still.

Martin Shelby

04:24:30PM I will have that for you.

Alan Clendenin

04:24:32PM Staff. The property located 218 and 220 East Davis Boulevard. Request is for alcoholic beverage sales, restaurant classification for beer, wine and liquor for consumption on-premise only. Site plan shows no modifications required between first and second readings, and they have been presented to the clerk's office, and I am available for any questions.

04:25:05PM Council have any questions. Hearing none. Applicant. I don't have anything further to add, but I want to make one quick note. There was a request for us to add a note on the site plan about working with potentially installing those shade trees along the sidewalk, and we are committing to install type 1 trees 30 feet on center adjacent to the sidewalk. That's it.

04:25:39PM Perfect. Thank you so much. Council member Miranda.

Charlie Miranda

04:25:42PM 220 Davis Boulevard. Did that have an alcohol license years ago?

Alan Clendenin

04:25:48PM Going to be outside.

Lynn Hurtak

04:25:50PM Repealing nose conflict in 2009. There are two. There are two active alcohol licenses already. There is a little gap in the middle where there isn't any wet zoning, and that's what we are seeking to get approved here. To fill the gap.

Charlie Miranda

04:26:13PM I remember going there many times. I didn't drink and the people I was with drank. I was drunk on coca-cola or something.

Alan Clendenin

04:26:23PM Any other questions? Okay. Anyone in the public wish to speak to this item? My goodness, you need a forklift.

Martin Shelby

4:27:05PM Three names. Amy ellino. Yes. Pamela colker. And ana murray. Thank you. Three additional minutes for a total of 6.

Alan Clendenin

4:27:59PM Start with your name. You have more stuff? You are burdened with those forever now. Start with your name. 192 Corsica Street. I have been sworn. I'm changing the order of my presentation -- can I have the screen on, please? Within a week of the first reading, this is what 220 looked like. There was no permit. There was no occupancy used. I mean, this is a bacchanal. This is what we're worried about. What we've already seen. A police report in the record. I gave it to you. There were over a hundred people on the site. You can read the police report. I don't want to quote it incorrectly. To show that I'm not making this up, you were told there will not be a bacchanal. The site you approved can have 435 people with the zoning that you gave in that outdoor area standing side by side just like they are at mcdinton. There will be 109 parking spaces waived. That's going to be very, very dangerous on the island. This space over here, they did not adequately tell you what they changed between first and second reading. The 46 persons and outdoor occupancy area, sorry I don't have reading glasses on, might be reading it incorrectly but someone has the site plan to correct me, that has changed. The 247 persons in the outdoor area, that has changed. This has a total of 535 people that can be at the 220 area. The 218, 220. If you go down here, it says it requires 72 parking spaces. They are asking you to waive 134 parking spaces. This is going to be very, very dangerous for our community. And if you go back in and you look at what we have right now, I suspect between 220 and key key's or 218, 220 and kiki, slightly over maybe 225 people. Mr. Hudson can correct me with the correct number that can be on that site. You are going to increase just on this site alone to 535 people plus the 435 on the other site. This is 950 people approximately. We can't accommodate that. That's going to be so dangerous. These changes between first and second reading are not minor revisions. These are material revisions. And I would say that these revisions are not at all consistent with your motion, and they had denied the residents their due process to actually comment on this. This was not put out until the Wednesday right before thanksgiving. When you get back to our bacchanal, we were afraid of worst-case scenario. Our worst-case scenario happened less than a week after you had the first reading. This is going to happen over and over again, and I don't even know how the police or the Code Enforcement are going to respond to this, because it's at 72 spaces, but you waived 130 spaces. Can there be -- how many people inside, outside. You'll have a mess with enforcement. Can I reinforce also that you are increasing the parking deficit by 198 parking spaces in our small little two plot downtown business area. This applicant has sites where they can put some parking in there. I don't understand for the life of me why there wasn't any request to have some kind of parking agreement between other sites like you do all over the place. I think this is absolutely special treatment. I have brought these issues up with the fact that these changes were more than minor with legal counsel and many of your aides. I think that this is a huge departure from the code. Also, in the code, it says that you cannot have an ab sales approval on a parking lot. This is a parking lot. The part that is going to get rezoned is a parking lot. The process they need to follow, if they want to have ab sales on this area is to get some kind of change of use on the site. They can get it changed to what they were representing to you before, which was a seating area with a tree where grandmas like me can sit on a bench. They can get that changed before they go in for the alcoholic beverage sale. They are using this alcoholic beverage sale to grossly increase the occupancy and without any parking whatsoever. Look at Hyde Park, Councilman Clendenin, I have seen you at meetings at Jan park, and you have heard the residents just so upset with the impacts on the neighborhood. We are going to hear that. You are going to hear that from us, because this is not going to turn out the way that you are expecting it to be. I don't understand how you can increase like probably almost 300 -- say, 275 people and not give any parking. It doesn't make any sense. It is going to create a problem that we're going to have to live with for a very long time. Furthermore, I own property within a thousand square foot of this site. When you get the agreements, you can go within a thousand square feet. I'm being denied my protections because they should be providing the parking within a thousand square feet. All this parking will go on the residential streets. I gave you a staff report that said it is dangerous. There has been no competent, substantial evidence put into the record. I please beg you to read my motion helper and review the documentation that I have put into the record on this request. Thank you for your time. I appreciate your consideration. This is a very serious issue. Thank you.

4:35:02PM Thank you very much. Next speaker. Land development staff and the Transportation Department both found it inconsistent. It violates the code and the Davis Islands community plan. From first to second reading, they changed their occupancy from 243 persons to 535 persons. That is a ridiculously big change. That is not appropriate between first and second hearing. Also, the staff report says 72 parking spaces are required, but they need a waiver for 134 spaces. Why the discrepancy? Regardless of the discrepancy, they want zero parking spaces, zero? Why would you approve that. The applicant owns property that could provide parking. They are choosing not to. Why would you allow that? They are asking for a waiver to allow alcohol sales only 31 feet from residential. That's from that step to where Stephanie poynor is standing. 31 feet. You need to protect the rights of the people and make the code count for something. If the code is wrong, change it. Don't pull the rug out from under people. They already had one event -- here is the picture -- with over a hundred people in the street, and the police had to be called. You have the police report. They are already breaking promises a week after first reading, that was illegal alcohol consumption in the parking lot without ab approval or permit. That is not my definition of good neighbors. There will be three alcohol venues that are closer together than the code allows. Why would you approve this? How many hours have citizens spent here complaining about excessive wet zoning? Davis Islands residents spent years writing a community plan. City Council approved it. Why would you violate it? What is the point of what we do as volunteers if you are just going to vote yes, we're going to approve your plan, but whenever we feel like it, we're going to ignore it. Are you going to render all our work a waste of time? Why should we bother if council is going to run over us and negate all our volunteer work? Exceptions exhaust the citizens. People had to leave today because they were here for five hours and it was for nothing. Exceptions take away citizens' power to make informed decisions about their life. Exceptions cause burnout and people who want to participate in government. Why are you doing this? Do you have any idea how small the commercial district is in Davis Islands? Do you know how many properties have wet zoning? Do you know the answer to that? It's about ten. Ten that can sell beer and wine. Two of them are owned by this applicant and they are not using them. They have them shuttered. I know what's going to happen. Here is a picture of what's going to happen. Why would you approve this? This is nuts. It's going to come back to bite the people who live there.

4:38:06PM Thank you. Next speaker. You'll get good at this before it's over. I came before the committee council on the 30th as an expert in health and wellness. You guys disregarded that after 32 years working as er, also icus and education at hcc, training new nurses and such. I come here today also putting on the hat of Davis Islands civic association neighborhood watch. I watched as what we have on the screen right here -- can you guys see that? While this happened, I was there and I saw all this happening. And this was seven days after you guys were here on the 30th. So it was I believe the 5th. And we have neighbors, this isn't going to be a raging outdoor. You can see what a raging outdoor is. Intensely wild, unrestrained often drunken celebration party characterized by excessive merry making. This is on our island, guys, our neighborhood. Councilperson Hurtak, you were talking about the front porch at one time. This is not the front porch. But now after you guys approved 340, it is a front porch. Six days later, 11/5, this event was held. They knew it was happening when they stood up here before you guys. There is that, and there's some of the merry making. I'm not going to spend too long on this, but this is the actual police report. You can see that they said that the person had a permit, but you guys know that they didn't because it was sent in to you. You guys have this document. We turned it in to you. This is the old bank of america directly across the street from where you guys did 340. He turned it into gated pickleball court. There's all your parking. That's all your parking right there. Now at 7:00 every morning, we get to hear what? Have you guys played pickleball? That's what we get to hear in the nice quiet neighborhood. It's not going to be quiet anymore. Canary in the coal mine, we're warning you. I've seen this throughout the day here. It's one request after another. I agree with some of the citizens that said earlier, if you stop giving waivers, if you want to change the law, change the law. This should be denied, and I thank you guys for all that you do. I know you're overwhelmed. Thank you.

4:41:07PM Thank you. Yes, sir. Bob abberger. I've been sworn. Here we go again. Post-helene Davis island is under assault to maintain its character. You've been on the island. Over 200 homes under construction. A flood of wealth. No one with their eye on the ball of what's happening in the village that they are investing in. Small-town character they are investing in. I believe the impact of this request is inconsistent with what the majority of our residents desire and brings absolutely no benefit to the village. Unfortunately, what we just approved, I would have loved to have had another minute to try to save the vote, effectively, we voted to reduce the property value of the adjacent residential properties because that's the net effect. And we voted to set a precedent to allow alcohol within 39 feet. Now we'll probably see it at the other end of the city and perhaps on the bank parcel because that precedent has been set. When it comes back before council, you'll be challenged, how can you deny me? You already approved it. Approving this would add insult to injury. We've already seen what I believe is a demonstration of the real intent of this request. The intensity is beyond scale. Arguably to go from the first site plan of 235 to 535, that is a material change without any public input or comment. It ought to go back to a first reading, but I don't want you to do that. I want you to deny it because I believe this degrades the quality of life and value of the village. I believe it will negatively impact the residents adjacent to this. The painful reality it also sets precedent to ignore and circumvent requirements of our code. Please give this one an additional thought before you push the button and we ask you, please, deny this request.

4:43:22PM Thank you. It's been a long frickin' day. Sandy and I did a site visit the other day. I thought it was really interesting. I backed up enough to get the address 218 on here. But what's funny is, on the door, there was a "no parking in the village on Saturday" sign on it. But like everybody else, I don't understand -- I'm kind of befuddled. Normally I understand where you guys are coming from on this stuff, but that is scary. That's Howard Avenue, reproduced. I'm sorry, but I don't see how you guys voted for this the first time and voted yes on it. I understand we have to start somewhere with the parking, but this is lunacy. This is not good judgment. You are making life on TPD hard. We have nine officers that patrol all of South Tampa and Davis island at night. Now you're going to split them from being in the trouble areas that we already have and put them in this area as well. This is just -- and two of them right together on top of each other just befuddles me. Like I said, normally I agree with you guys on just about everything you do, but this one and kiki's are both -- my mouth, I'm just dumfounded. The people who came in here and thought this was a great idea were not the people who live right around there. I cannot imagine -- I measured today during lunch, Suling held the tape measure and I measured. 31 feet to there and 39 feet to right there. What if that was your back door. The lady earlier said, oh, we got in trouble for too loud out here. Mom, when you are drinking, you are too damn loud. I said, I know! I'm loud all the time, but I do get louder. I like to drink. I'll be the first person to tell you I love to have a good old-fashioned drink. Why are we putting it so close to houses that people can't sleep at night. Andy mccloskey was 150 feet away and we saw what he had to deal with. You all don't do this. It's wrong. It's illegal. You can't serve alcohol in a parking lot and we have pictures of them doing it already. Give me a break. Thank you.

4:45:57PM Okay. Rebuttal.

Martin Shelby

4:45:58PM Before rebuttal, I want to make sure, are there any questions of council to anybody that you want to have answered before you have rebuttal?

Alan Clendenin

4:46:07PM I have questions for applicant.

Martin Shelby

4:46:08PM Have your questions answered, please, before the last word. The rebuttal is supposed to be the last word.

Alan Clendenin

4:46:20PM My question is about the occupancy.

Lynn Hurtak

4:46:23PM I have different questions.

Alan Clendenin

4:46:26PM I'm kind of confused, the 535 took me by surprise. Was that presented in the first reading? The issue we talked about, the outdoor waiting area, at the very end of the presentation, Ms. Johnson Velez, we have this on video, explained that the waiver was -- the parking waiver was going to increase because by calculating that waiting area as being theoretically maximally occupied with people, that was going to count towards the parking requirement --

4:46:55PM Not the parking requirement. The actual occupancy. You're saying the outdoor waiting area is going to be fully occupied.

4:47:04PM 535 on the site plan. That is the fire code. That is the amount of people that can fit at the absolute maximum density is that many people.

4:47:19PM That's crazy. Keep it incredibly unsafe parking lot? That's exactly the condition we're trying to solve for that was pretty enthusiastically embraced at the last hearing.

4:47:37PM I like that concept, Mr. Hudson, about creating an outdoor shaded area, but to be able to have an occupancy of 535, you really do open up the concerns that the neighbor has. Either it is parking, which no one wants. We can't fill it with snakes and lava, people are going to stand there. That's all we can do. This is the code you all have. I recognize and agree with some of the opponents here, the code is trash. It's occupiable space. Zoning Administrator is here. He can explain why it is calculated that way.

4:48:11PM Let me pivot from you for City staff now. Is there a way for this council to restrict occupancy or is it just based on square footage of the area?

Leo Debardeleben

4:48:29PM Leo Debardeleben, Development Coordination. You can condition this request however you like.

Alan Clendenin

4:48:35PM We can restrict occupancy of the outdoor area?

Leo Debardeleben

4:48:40PM Yes.

Alan Clendenin

4:48:43PM Councilwoman Hurtak.

Lynn Hurtak

4:48:54PM I want to know what your client was thinking holding an event like this one after first reading. Where he clearly did not have a permit but lied to the police about it. I know the client dealt with the police on it. This is some run club that does various meet-ups around town. From what I gather most of the run group members brought their own alcohol to it. It was an appalling event that happened for sure. But this wasn't people just being --

4:49:38PM I'm sorry, you all. [ sounding gavel ] there's no excuse. I think that this parking lot in its current condition is sort of a disaster. What we are trying to do is make this a nice tree-lined waiting area for a new improved restaurant for which we're already deep in the permit process. That's what we're trying to do. That's why we're here.

4:50:08PM Clearly on this -- and I can have --

Alan Clendenin

4:50:15PM The run club ad.

Lynn Hurtak

4:50:16PM Yeah, the run club ad. It says here by 220 east restaurant and wine beer, half off bottles of wine, $4 high noons, $3 select beers, 50% off all appetizers. That person who was crushing a beer, it wasn't a beer, it was a high noon. You can see it. For you to say that people brought their own alcohol, I don't believe it.

4:50:42PM Clearly. High noon is even a sponsor of this. What I'm saying is your client made a poor decision and it's going to affect this. Now I can't vote for this because I cannot believe in what your client is going to do. I cannot believe in it. If we were able to reduce the amount of people to say 50 outside, maybe I could be on board. But I'm -- I'm beyond shocked. I guess what I would ask council to do would be to --

4:51:28PM Ms. Zomermaand, you have to stop talking. Thank you. [ sounding gavel ]

Alan Clendenin

4:51:35PM What you all don't realize, I don't know what it is about the acoustics in this room. It is crazy. You can whisper back there and we hear it loud and clear. An astute observer of reality and what I found out happened about 30 minutes ago, is to continue this to be a first reading. Clearly, you all are going to want some changes. Continuing this to be a second reading isn't really going to do much. That is a waste of time. I'm not here in a couple of days for a while. So I guess -- certainly, it's going to require the waiver of the rules because we already opened the public hearing. I think that is a waiver folks are comfortable with. Probably should do that. I guess I would ask and maybe need some help from Mr. Shelby, would be to continue this to be a first reading hearing in January. Certainly not January 15.

4:52:37PM If we were to deny this tonight, when could council hear it again?

Martin Shelby

4:52:42PM That is a question for staff, a legal question. Before we begin, let me review your rules because council has addressed this. I'm reading now from rule 6-j-3. And that says no request for a continuance by the applicant, petitioner shall be granted at a quasi-judicial hearing after the petitioner, applicant has completed initial presentation unless upon determination by City Council that it is necessary for procedural due process. That's your rules. The applicant tenant is not even here. I think that checks your procedural due process box.

4:53:30PM I would disagree with that, sir. The applicant under the code has a duty to be here.

Alan Clendenin

4:53:37PM Hold on Tyler. Councilman Viera.

Luis Viera

4:53:39PM Here is an argument for this, which is, there have been made allegations which Mr. Hudson Has just found out about, that he would like to have further time to inquire on. Allegations that have not been substantiated, right? That appear to weigh the votes of Tampa City Council members. To me, that is an issue that does implicate a measure of due process. It's not a matter of reasonable diligence would have inquired on these matters and known that these allegations were out there. These are allegations introduced for the first time, it would appear, during public comment. I do think that is something very compelling. What's being requested here is not unreasonable. Very narrowly tailored and going back to first reading so we get two bites at that apple. I realize I look like an idiot up here. Go back to first principles and why we are here in the first place. This is a catastrophically unsafe parking environment. People, families, moms and dads who couldn't come here because they are really busy and don't have the luxury of time came here to ask you to approve something to get the calls off this rucks off-site parking lot and onto the street which, by the way, the city asked to do four years ago and now we're paying for it. There is something solvable here. It's not going to happen now. This meeting is going on insanely long enough. I don't want to waste anybody's time. When you deny something, you preserve something. If you deny this today because of this, you preserve this grotesquely unsafe parking situation which is the reason we're doing this. We try to do this with a design exception and denied. 40 letters of support and 1 in opposition. I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I think that would be imprudent. I don't know if I'm supposed to make the request or you all, but I would ask that we have a first reading for this in January.

Alan Clendenin

4:55:34PM Noted. Before we get to the process, for the record, I would like to ask staff to come up -- do you have the documents from the first site plan that was submitted? I would like an explanation of how we got from the first site plan to the second site plan. Forever.

4:56:01PM Mr. Hudson, honestly, you know I was supportive of this concept, but that did shock me to see that occupancy of 535. Parking calculations do not account for outdoor space.

4:56:17PM I understand. I was asking staff the question.

Leo Debardeleben

4:56:35PM Leo Debardeleben, Development Coordination. I think this one was submitted but not the final one.

Alan Clendenin

4:56:47PM We asked for the first one from the first reading. What we saw at first reading.

Leo Debardeleben

4:56:54PM I don't know if I have that one printed out.

Alan Clendenin

4:57:00PM What was the coordination between the applicant and staff?

Lynn Hurtak

4:57:45PM Can you zoom in a little bit and then move it up so we can read -- can you zoom it in and move it up a little bit so we can read all of the things?

Alan Clendenin

4:57:58PM Because it was still a parking lot at that point, you did not have -- that area included in your occupancy.

Leo Debardeleben

4:58:06PM That's correct, Mr. Chairman. If you recall when legal staff, Susan Johnson Velez, she was here and explained how the building code, they could have to do the calculations that way, so there was some -- there was an arbitrary number that was kind of thrown out and she said it would -- ultimately it would be waived to zero.

Lynn Hurtak

4:58:32PM Again, this was the site plan that was shown at first reading.

Leo Debardeleben

4:58:36PM Yes.

Lynn Hurtak

4:58:38PM Again, how do we get from occupancy of 243 persons to 500 and some -- 535 -- I was going to say 538. That's what I'm not understanding, how we got to that because I thought this was a site plan that we were voting on.

Leo Debardeleben

4:59:02PM So this site plan didn't calculate the outdoor occupancy for alcohol consumption. It was just a waiting area and it wasn't -- that area wasn't being calculated for parking. The discussion during first reading where Ms. Johnson Velez said it would be recalculated and that change would be made, that additional occupancy would be added and the waiver would reflect that calculation.

Lynn Hurtak

4:59:30PM Okay.

Alan Clendenin

4:59:34PM I think we need to bring this home. Councilman Viera made a good point.

Lynn Hurtak

4:59:37PM I agree. I think it should be continued. No disagreement.

Alan Clendenin

4:59:41PM I think we grant the applicant request to go back to first reading.

Lynn Hurtak

4:59:45PM However now we need to figure out what we're asking for.

Alan Clendenin

4:59:51PM Is that appropriate?

Lynn Hurtak

4:59:53PM Yes. Now is the time to say what we want.

Alan Clendenin

4:59:59PM Let's have that discussion.

Lynn Hurtak

5:00:03PM Mr. Hudson, I can tell that you are not happy either because you didn't know about this. It's on your client to come back with something that is reasonable. And right now, I'm leaning toward no alcohol outdoors because to literally have the police report in front of us where your client said that they had a permit not only for sound but for alcohol or whatever it was and for that to be patently untrue -- yeah, problematic is a very nice word for it. Talked to the police. We don't own the building. We don't really operate the restaurant. We want to operate this new restaurant that we're trying to get approval for. The mistruth can sometimes get halfway around the world before the truth gets its pants on. Mark twain, blah, blah. Clearly this was a horrible lapse in judgment by someone. We don't really know exactly who that was. Keep a little bit of an open mind. I don't want to ask you all questions, of course. We can't create more parking. We have eight spaces. We want to move them to the street. That's what the city asked us to do. Maybe some opponents would like us to build a parking garage, the room would be more filled if we proposed that. I know that. If the pain point seems to be the number of people outdoors or maybe I would ask if someone could confirm that the pain point seemed to be, a, the number of people outdoors and b, their ability to consume alcohol. That's what I'm hearing. If I'm wrong.

Alan Clendenin

5:01:59PM That number was a pain point for me. I have a clarification from staff. If this was denied tonight and they substantially changed the application, we could waive the one year rule -- [oath administered]

5:02:29PM You heard that question?

Eric Cotton

5:02:31PM Yes, Sir. Eric Cotton, Development Coordination. So in the code for when something is denied, it is a 12-month waiting period. The decision on whether or not to waive the 12 months rests with me as the za. So if they come in and substantially different, they modify the plan, they reduce the alcohol area, they do something to that effect, that would then come to me and put forth a new site plan along with a narrative and they explain why that time frame should be waived. I weigh it out. If I waive it, then they apply for a new alcohol permit at that point.

Alan Clendenin

5:03:11PM Does that incur additional fees or costs to do that versus doing the other way around? Seriously. Here's why it costs time. If we file a new application because you deny this and they determine we can come back, folks behind me, I don't know all of them, what's in their hearts, they are going to appeal that decision. This will go on indefinitely. You have a live application. I think the majority of the contents of which, some of the contents are the same as the original that seem to find favor and we want the chance to modify that. If you deny this application, we are going to be in a procedural hell-scape that will go on for years. All the bad judgment aside of whatever the run club thing was, that was their intent. Their intent is to use these procedural tangles to delay this to the point where it never happens. I want to be clear about that. That's what is happening here.

5:04:10PM We're not getting information from the crowd or the public this issue. We're talking just the council about the procedure. The council's angst about what we've seen. This is something we've seen just on your documents, not the testimony from the public. Councilwoman Hurtak --

Lynn Hurtak

5:04:31PM Viera was going to say what I was going to say. Let's continue this. I don't have a problem.

Luis Viera

5:04:40PM A denial would implicate major, major legal issues involving due process and arbitrary government actions that deprive somebody of property. If I may, I do a motion to continue to January 29, January 29 for first reading consideration. That is my motion.

Lynn Hurtak

5:05:03PM I'm going to ask to amend your motion. I will second it, but amend it to say that it needs to be renoticed. Is that okay? What date?

5:05:13PM 29. That is the next alcohol. I don't want it to be earlier.

5:05:19PM That's our next alcohol. January 29 is fine.

5:05:29PM I hear Ms. Dock. I believe she is about to tell us that January is full.

LaChone Dock

5:05:34PM Good afternoon chairman and council. Thank you so much. LaChone Dock, Development Coordination. Council, if I may, if we could have specific direction as to what the applicant is to work on, of what they cannot change on the plan. Either it stays the same and come back for first reading, which is perfectly fine or there are specific things that only -- I know there was a mention of no outdoor alcohol. We just need specifics. We could end up with something totally different coming back for the next first reading. Without the direction, we don't know.

Alan Clendenin

5:06:13PM For myself, I would limit occupancy outside and I don't know about the alcohol inside or outside. I would definitely limit the occupancy outside. Let's do the motion --

Martin Shelby

5:06:28PM Before the motion to continue, there's been an issue brought to my attention. I want to bring it to council's attention and see where we go from here. It's been brought to my attention that there was somebody within this room that has standing in this case in that they are within I believe less than 250 feet from what I understand. That person wants the right to cross-examine Mr. Hudson. And cross-examination at quasi-judicial hearings can be allowed. There is a right. It is a due process right for both the applicant and perhaps those people who have standing. I just want to bring it to council's attention and see where we go from here.

Lynn Hurtak

5:07:10PM Mr. Shelby, we're going to continue this. Couldn't that person --

Alan Clendenin

5:07:15PM Come to the next hearing.

Lynn Hurtak

5:07:17PM -- come to the next hearing?

Alan Clendenin

5:07:19PM And still have due process.

Martin Shelby

5:07:20PM Well, the person is here now.

Luis Viera

5:07:22PM How in the world could an attorney be cross-examined?

Martin Shelby

5:07:27PM Fair question because an attorney shouldn't be testifying.

Luis Viera

5:07:30PM This is outlandish. Please, for the love that is holy and decent, vote on the motion.

Martin Shelby

5:07:39PM That has been brought to council's attention and now it's in the record.

Alan Clendenin

5:07:44PM We have a motion from Councilman Viera. A second from Councilwoman Hurtak to continue this item to January 29, 2026. Discussion.

Lynn Hurtak

5:07:55PM At 5:01 p.m., 315 East Kennedy Boulevard, 33602, third floor. The only thing I wanted to do, the motion as Ms. Dock Asked, that we need to provide her. And it needs to be in this motion.

Alan Clendenin

5:08:14PM We have the motion. We have the second. Discussion and amendments, however you want to do it. What does council want to request the applicant come back with in January? Councilman Viera.

Luis Viera

5:08:29PM Isn't this sort of up to them in terms of what they want to present to us? Am I missing something?

Alan Clendenin

5:08:36PM Ms. Dock Asked for clarification, too.

Martin Shelby

5:08:38PM Council, yes, you are, because according to the rules, he's asking for a continuance, and your rules state after he does his presentation at second reading, he doesn't have the right to ask for a continuance.

Lynn Hurtak

5:08:56PM So we're asking for a continuance because -- so what I expect to see. This is just me. Throw it out and talk about it. What I would like to see is the parking situation to stay the same, meaning that they will change the patio, they will finish the strip parking with the trees, like we talked about. So I would like that to be maintained. But as far as occupancy outside, we would like to see it reduced at least by half. Do we want to say that?

Alan Clendenin

5:09:27PM Building occupancy is 235. I would say 25% of the building occupancy is reasonable area. I think 25% of building occupancy for a waiting area is more than reasonable. Anybody disagree with that?

Luis Viera

5:09:43PM Question, if I may. Are these preferences?

Alan Clendenin

5:09:47PM See what we're comfortable with. My understanding from listening to counselor Hudson, he wanted to know what this council was comfortable to get to an affirmative when he comes back in January.

Luis Viera

5:10:00PM So long as it is done as a request --

Lynn Hurtak

5:10:04PM It's a recommendation. Also, we talked about benches but no tables. I think all that should stay. Do we have any other ideas?

Alan Clendenin

5:10:19PM Obviously, the biggest thing that just struck me when I saw this was 535. That does sound like soho. We don't want to have that. I would like to see this as a nice restaurant with a waiting area where people can enjoy and wait for a table, not necessarily party outside. Something that would be fitting for Davis Islands, somebody who lives on Davis Islands. Anybody else have input? Is that enough to go on? Thank you.

5:10:53PM We have a motion to continue with the advice from Councilman Viera. Second from Councilwoman Hurtak. All those in favor say -- oh, hold on.

Martin Shelby

5:11:03PM I do have a question. Does your motion address the occupancy issue at all?

Lynn Hurtak

5:11:09PM Yes.

Alan Clendenin

5:11:10PM We did it as a suggestion to come back with that. 25% of building occupancy.

Martin Shelby

5:11:19PM With regard to outdoor sales -- excuse me, service of alcohol, do you have any comment on that or does that remain the same?

Alan Clendenin

5:11:26PM Remains the same. Motion from Councilman Viera. A second from Councilwoman Hurtak. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? The ayes have it unanimously.

The clerk

5:11:37PM Motion carried unanimously with Carlson and Maniscalco abstaining.

Alan Clendenin

5:11:42PM Thank you very much for enduring, as you can imagine, this council is exhausted. We are going to take a 15-minute break and return at 5:30. [ sounding gavel ] [recess]

5:36:14PM Call council back to order. Roll call, please.

Charlie Miranda

5:36:17PM Here.

Guido Maniscalco

5:36:18PM Here.

Naya Young

5:36:19PM Here.

Bill Carlson

5:36:21PM Here.

Alan Clendenin

5:36:22PM Here.

The clerk

5:36:23PM We have a physical quorum.

Alan Clendenin

5:36:26PM Thank you. Thank you guys for your patience. Appreciate it. We were getting a hangry City Council. Nobody wants that. We're going to move on to the 10:30 a.m. public hearings. If that doesn't put it in perspective, I don't know what does. Item number 51. My name is victor gresseau. I'm an environmental specialist with the Department of Solid Waste and Environmental Program Management. Item 51 on today's agenda is the second and final hearing before City Council for proposed Brownfield Area designation for property consisting of two parcels located in the general vicinity of 1921 north 53rd and 1810 north 57th street. Broadway Holdings LLC is requesting the designation of these properties as Brownfield Area to assess the environmental impacts that may exist on the property. Details outlined in the document entitled staff report, Broadway Holdings proposed Brownfield Area designation which is available for public review at the city clerk's office and online on onbase. In accordance with the Florida brownfield redevelopment act requirements for privately initiated brownfield designation, the applicant held a public meeting on November 3, 2025, at the hilton garden inn, Tampa, ybor historic district. The published notice of that meeting in both an ethnic newspaper and newspaper of general circulation. Additionally, the meeting time and location were announced by City Council during the November 16 evening meeting. At the conclusion of this hearing, council would have the opportunity to adopt the resolution designating the brownfield holdings LLC site a Brownfield Area. City staff determined that the applicant's application meets the minimum requirements for brownfield designation and recommends that council approve this designation. Legal and the applicant's representative and I are available if you have any questions.

5:38:33PM Does council have any questions? Hearing none, anybody in the public that wishes to speak to item number 51? Can I get a motion to close? We have a motion to close from Councilman Maniscalco. A second from Councilman Viera. All those in favor say aye. Opposed?

Guido Maniscalco

5:38:49PM Move the resolution.

Alan Clendenin

5:38:51PM We have a motion from Councilman Maniscalco and a second from Councilman Viera to move the resolution for item 51 for brownfield designation. All in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have it unanimously. Thank you very much. Item number 53.

Ross Samons

5:39:11PM Ross Samons, Development Coordination, presenting vac-25-19. Share the elmo screen. The applicant is 4200 east 7th avenue LLC. representative name Joseph bricklemyer. Property address is 4200 east 7th avenue. This is a proposed vacating request to vacate the alleyway lying north of 7th avenue, south of 9th avenue, east of 42nd street and west of 43rd street. The application was filed August 20, 2025. Right-of-way is partially improved. This right-of-way was created by subdivision plat. Existing right-of-way approximately 2,967 square feet. The reason for the request is address encroachment of building located at the address of the application at 4200 east 7th avenue. This is an aerial view of the proposed request. In yellow is the alley. The request is to be vacated property in red. This is subdivision plat which the alley was created. Here in block three. This is the general location of the alley looking east from 42nd street. Again, general location of the alley looking west from 43rd street. Staff objects to this vacating request, in particular, transportation easement reservation is required by TECO. Special conditions natural resources comply with chapter 27 as regards tree preservation and site design for any improvements placed adjacent to trees in a vacated area. That concludes my presentation. I'm available if you have any questions. I would like to point out that Jonathan Scott is available virtually with transportation to speak on his objection.

Lynn Hurtak

5:41:23PM I would like to hear from him. I'll be brief. I've been sworn.

Alan Clendenin

5:41:32PM Hold on one second. We don't have your camera on. There you are. I have been sworn. I'll be brief. The objection, the applicant didn't have a good public justification for the vacating. They stated building encroachment. We thought that was insufficient. The applicant uses the alley to get into the property. They kind of need it. As far as anybody else using the alley, nobody else can because they have a gate across it. Then the whole comp plan stuff that encourages alley use that was mainly my objection. I'll be on standby if you have questions for me.

5:42:19PM Very good. Any further questions? Applicant? My voice box is recovering from surgery. Joseph bricklemyer, winter garden, Florida. I sent a message back to the clerk, a memo, on the 15th of November addressing Jonathan's issues. He's technically correct, but the reality is the property was sold in 1969 unimproved. Sold in 1984 improved. The city has been unable to provide me when that building went into that alley. Sometime between 1969 and 1984, that building encroached in the alley and there's been no usage complaints since. We have no problem providing an easement for TECO. Quite honestly, we have no problem with having some constraints on the use of the alley. This is merely to address a title issue for my client where the building encroaches in the alley. If I could take part of the alley behind the building, I would. Can't do that per the code. Any other questions?

5:43:39PM Council have questions? Hearing none, anybody in the audience who wishes to speak to this vacation? We have a motion to close from Councilman Viera. A second from Councilman Maniscalco. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. I have no idea where we left off. Who wants to read this one?

Guido Maniscalco

5:43:57PM I have an ordinance being presented for first reading consideration, an ordinance of the City of Tampa, Florida, vacating, closing, discontinuing and abandoning that alleyway located north of 7th avenue, south of 9th avenue, east of 42nd street and west of 43rd street within the revised map of enterprise subdivision, a subdivision in the City of Tampa, Hillsborough county, Florida as more fully described in section 2 hereof, subject to certain covenants, conditions and restrictions as more particularly set forth herein, providing for enforcement and penalties for violations, providing for definitions, interpretations and repealing conflicts, providing for severability, providing an effective date.

Alan Clendenin

5:44:34PM Thank you. We have a motion from Councilman Maniscalco. We have a second from Councilman Viera. All those in favor say aye. Opposed?

Lynn Hurtak

5:44:40PM Nay.

The clerk

5:44:41PM Motion carried with Hurtak voting no. second reading and adoption will be held on January 8, 2026 At 10:00 a.m. in City Council Chambers, 315 East Kennedy Boulevard, third floor, Tampa, Florida, 33602.

Alan Clendenin

5:44:56PM Now we have item number 55. Review hearing. Anybody that's left in here, if you are Planning on speaking to any of the items left, stand and raise your right hand. Anybody not been sworn in? I know you've been sworn in, Ms. Stephanie. You have not. Raise your right hand to be sworn in. [Oath administered] Camaria Pettis-Mackle from the Legal Department. Item 55 is a review hearing. This is a review hearing for the zoning application of de 1-25-127 for the property located at old 2805 Bayshore Way. The petitioner for this matter is William heller. He is an aggrieved person. The original request by the applicant was to allow the exposed framing of the fence on the west side of the applicant's property that face the interior yard of the neighboring property. Staff approved the application with conditions on August 1st of 2025. City Council should have received their packets for this matter. It contains the rules of procedure for City Council to use in order to conduct this review hearing. It also contains code section 27-61, which governs your review hearing process. The specific code section for a design exception is found in code section 27-60. The specific code section regarding the request from the applicant is regarding -- is titled fence and walls. And that's found in 27-290.1.3. I also provided sample motions in the code, obviously. The sample motions, you will see that I also included the criteria City Council must use in deciding whether to affirm or deny this petition. The standard of review that's outlined in code section 27-61 subsection j-3 is a de novo standard of review. That means City Council is not limited to the information that was received in the application record. You are allowed to take new information at this hearing. Staff present is Mr. Cotton. He will give an overview of the application and the decision of staff. After hearing all the testimony and receiving all the evidence in regards to this matter, City Council can affirm the decision or you can deny the decision. Again, your sample motion gives you the two actions that City Council can take and it also provides the criteria that City Council, the code says shall use the specific criteria in 27-60 when you make your decision regarding this matter. As always, I'm available if you have any questions.

5:48:05PM Council have any questions? Okay. Presentation.

Eric Cotton

5:48:22PM Eric Cotton, Development Coordination. As Ms. Pettis-mackle Indicated, this is for property, this is for -- 25-127 for old 2805 Bayshore Way. It's a third party determination. That means that the applicant is not appealing the decision. The neighbor who was affected -- the affected party is appealing the decision. The petitioner is William heller. The next-door neighbor. Property owners are William brent and sarah marie marsteller. Property is zoned rs-60. I'm not going to read their request. It's late. Basically want reverse framing based on the fact that -- based on the evidence they submitted to us that the existing fence that the neighbor has prohibited them from putting the fence in correctly. I'll skip over this. This is just a map of where we are located. Do you know where Bayshore Way is, right off of Bayshore Boulevard. This is the section of the code relevant. 27-290.1-c-3 which states through design exception process, a fence can be reversed if either, a, the neighbor says, sure, you can reverse it, I don't have a problem having the nice side not facing me. Or there is either shrubs, existing fence, some kind of physical barrier that prohibits them from putting it up the correct way. As Ms. Pettis-mackle Indicated, design criteria under 27-60 that has to be addressed through the application process. This is the information -- this is completely administrative. No notice given out to the property owners, surrounding property owners. They requested the response. This is where the new fence was being put in. Highlighted in red. Pictures again provided by the property owner who -- by the original applicant. You can see this is their fence. This is the neighbor's fence that runs along the side of the property. Based on the evidence submitted to us, to staff, we looked at it and said, yes, it's impractical to put the fence in the proper way given the existing fence where it is located. And there are some additional photos that were provided. Again, the claim is that once the fence was installed, the property owner then came in and removed the fence that was there. This is a better picture of the fence. Again, the new fence, this is the applicant -- the petitioner's existing fence. It's hard to see from the pictures. There is shrubbery that grows there. You can't really see the fence on this picture, but it would be there. That was submitted. I know it's a little bit confusing given the situation, but do you have any questions that you would like to ask? What was approved by staff is where the fence is we approved it. And where the fence was not, we said the reverse framing was not approved. We sort of split the baby, probably not the best way approaching things, but seemed to be the most appropriate way of doing it. That's how we addressed it. Any questions for me at this time?

Alan Clendenin

5:52:03PM Councilwoman Young.

Naya Young

5:52:04PM Can you put the picture back up, please?

Eric Cotton

5:52:08PM Yes, ma'am. The closest one probably would have been like this one.

Naya Young

5:52:14PM Yes. If I'm understanding correctly, so the beams, the way it's written in the code should be facing the other way.

Eric Cotton

5:52:23PM The nice side of the fence is supposed to face the neighbor. But to do that -- PVC fences, really not a nice side to. Wood fences, the columns, to put in a wood fence, you have to screw the boards in from the side, would be over here. The fence contractor from what I was told was I can't do it that way because of the existing fence. And this is the existing fence from the neighbor.

Naya Young

5:52:54PM They couldn't put the columns on the other side because of the fence that's on this side?

Eric Cotton

5:53:00PM Correct. Existing fence. They want to put this fence in, to put the fence in properly, the columns -- you have to -- this would have to be mounted on the other side, which is where the contractor said he couldn't get into because of the existing fence. Because these boards would normally be mounted on this side of the fence of the columns. Instead of being mounted on this side, they would be mounted on that side. Ever lucky enough not putting up a wood fence, count yourself fortunate. Any questions, if not, turn it over to the applicant. My name is William heller. Old 2807 Bayshore Way. I'm immediately adjacent to the subject property. I'm here tonight -- I know we covered it briefly just now, but I'm here to discuss section 27-290.1.3 which pertains to fences and walls and specifically that material must be constructed so that the exposed framing of each section of the fence facing the interior of the yard, not the exterior. So that would be the cross beams that you saw on the tall wooden fence are supposed to be facing the home from which it was built as opposed to the exterior. Again, we're focusing on 28-05, old Bayshore Way, lot to our immediate east, our immediate right as we look at our front door. The subjects were granted an exemption which allowed the frame to temporarily face outward due to it being deemed impractical and infeasible. Are you able to see that? Okay. So once again, here is a survey of the area. We have north here. South here. East, west. This would be the street in front of our home. This is the front yard, backyard back here. This yellow circle you can see is the subject fence with our previous three foot tall picket fence on our side of that. It is on the western-most edge of the property line adjacent to his driveway. Leading up to this enclosed garage. What you may have difficulty seeing here is another Green Circle. That circle is our existing fence which is also six feet tall on the same exact property line, just on our side of the property that was built to code. I'm going to get into that a little bit more here momentarily. This is another image of the same exact property just so we're clear. Once again, this is my residence. Subject residence. Subject fence on the west side of the residence. And this is our fence, existing in the backyard built to code. Before I start -- one question I had and I presented this to the city but they told me they would not answer me because I had a hearing. But I asked them in these cases where you have a fence being built and there is an obstruction within the vicinity, I asked is there a hard line set of parameters that defines the building of that fence as being feasible or infeasible. Meaning, is there a certain distance that the fence is from this obstacle that deems it infeasible and practical? As another example, is there a certain height of that obstacle that deems it infeasible or impractical? Hypothetical situation, inspector shows up with a ruler, looks at it, measures it, yep, that falls within the range. Measures the obstacle, that's lower than the range, we're good to go. That would be scenario a. Again, the city would not answer this, so I'm just repeating. Scenario b would be that it is a subjective decision that's made solely based on the information that's available at the time of that decision. My own research it sounds like things point to scenario b where it is a subjective decision made with the information available. My goal here today is to bring more information to the table that was not available initially that I think could help potentially make a better decision, or the best decision. So starting here, this is the Tampa website, the Variance Review Board article 2, division 3 of chapter 27, it states the hardship or practical difficulty does not result from the actions of the applicant. A self-created hardship or practical difficulty shall not justify a variance. With that noted, we noticed here that the subject left pretty substantial room in between their driveway and the property line, which could have been covered up by this fence, which would have given them more room to operate in this area that was supposedly infeasible, impractical and tough to get to. That was roughly just under ten inches of additional space in a situation where every inch matters. It's very close. Moving on, and this is maybe what I think the most important piece of evidence or factor is, on our side of the property, once again, the same exact property line, same height fence, extending back into the backyard which is just a drawing but I'm going to show actual photos, we have a fence that was built to code, frame facing inward, not with a three-foot tall picket fence on the other side but with a 10-foot tall solid garage wall. This was done so we didn't even know it was an issue. Our fencer built it. We paid. We walked outside and it was done. Nonissue. Again, 10-foot tall solid wall versus three foot tall picket fence. Quickly, here is an image taken from our backyard just for perspective. This is the subject fence which you can see that part finished. I'll get to that briefly and we covered it in the opening. This would be our fence right here, which as you can see, I'll zoom in closer, but the framing is inward despite this garage wall behind it. Which, again, is completely solid and roughly two and a half times taller than their reported obstacle. Once again, up close, you have the fence built to code, frame in with a large solid wall behind it. Just some more examples of this to try to give you a clear shot. This once again is the frame interior that just shows the height of the obstacle. Once again, another image of the fence, frame inward according to code, solid wall behind. One other item to notice, this fence isn't just in the backyard, like hidden, per SE, or on the side, hidden, per SE. It extends into the front yard which not only do we see daily, but we have 17 lots on our street. It's a street that runs dead east to west with our lots being on the north side. So 14 of the 17 lots are west of this, meaning anytime in the yard leaving, walking their dog, et cetera, they are having to look at a fence at least initially built not to code. Moving on to the exemption letter that was sent to us, just a couple of things from this. It was just kind of like a head scratcher. We saw an error in the subject line. It mentioned that this was regarding increased fence height, which it's not. It's exposed framing. On the next page, they mentioned our fence as four feet high, which it's not. It's under that. One interesting part here, when it mentioned the information that was reviewed by the staff, you've got application, code of ordinance, accela, et cetera, et cetera, one thing we didn't notice that we saw on other exemption letters was there was mention of the accela system but on this one, there's no public comment attached that we saw on the other ones, despite us submitting one. We submitted this letter to the accela system. This is a letter from a neighbor and at the time HOA president. Can you see that? Okay. The HOA never approved the installation of the marsteller fence in a manner that violated City of Tampa code. In fact, not only did Mr. Marsteller confirm to the board that the fence would comply with city ordinances, but I personally provided him with the applicable codes to reference. He never sought permission from the neighbors to install the framing on their side nor did he ask for access to their property to complete it properly, even though clearly had enough space and clearance to be done correctly. This was not an issue of feasibility. It was a willful choice motivated by aesthetics at the expense of his neighbors' rights and the integrity of the community standards. Here is an e-mail from him himself to the HOA where you see this line, will follow all code and HOA requirements. Once again, going back to this image, you can see here, this is the portion that was mentioned earlier where they had to fix this one section. There was an exemption with a condition. This was the area they were supposed to fix. The language in that request was that the frame needed to be flipped around to face inward. That's not what they did. They nailed boards to the existing frame which is still facing us. So, in summary, we feel like we have a situation where an exemption was granted based on the information at the time, but without the availability of information including the subjects creating -- exhibiting self-created hardship by purposefully placing the fence post as close to the property line as possible despite ample move to give themselves more room. That's one. Two, and this one is big to us. The proof of an existing six-foot fence, same height as subject fence, that we built in the backyard according to code despite a ten-foot tall solid wall obstacle on the other side versus in their case, a three-foot tall high picket fence. Three, fence protruding into the front yard for three-quarters of our residents on the street to view while at home, walking, hanging out in the street, in the yard, four, the written errors in the exemption letter were slightly troubling along with the omission of the public comment from the neighbor. Five, just the subjects not following procedure, not requesting this exemption prior to building it from neighbors, from the HOA, not from the city. They just went ahead and built it and are now dealing with some of the circumstances. One last item, the subject fence builders have had, will have from day one have had permission to come on our property and do this fence correctly if needed. Finally, again, understanding this is a subjective decision, I just wanted to bring all of this information to the table to be considered or reconsidered to help the decision be made regarding the true feasibility and practicality of the fence to have been built correctly and according to code. Thank you for your time.

Alan Clendenin

6:06:49PM Does council have any questions? Good presentation. Is the property owner present? Start with your name. Really here for some questions you may have. I think the one assertion I wanted to really object was this fence was installed with framing facing outside for aesthetic purposes. That couldn't be further from false. We had a professional company, laz fencing install the fence on our property. When they came out, I never had a conversation with him prior to them coming out about the orientation of the framing. They explicitly explained it would be infeasible for them to face the pickets outside with not only the three foot picket fence that was there, but -- add one thing that wasn't shown. Mr. Heller's picture of this fence here, this portion right here that is no longer there. So after we had our fence installed, the next day Mr. Heller removed that portion of the fence and then submitted a code violation for the reverse framing. At the time of our fence install, this portion right here is what was in that place that was taken down. Not only the three foot fence, but the ten foot section that is eight feet is what prohibited our contractor from facing the pickets outside as would normally be done. That was left out of Mr. Cotton's presentation. I want to make sure that was known. Here for any questions.

Guido Maniscalco

6:08:46PM Explain that again. The picture you're showing here is an old fence that was originally there and was taken down -- right before you put the new fence? Two days after.

6:08:58PM They were right up against each other? This piece here that's empty, at the time our fence was installed, that fence was there. So the day after, that's what really prohibited our contractor from installing the framing facing inside. Two days after they removed that and then submitted a code violation for reverse framing.

6:09:23PM This is the front of the house. This piece that's empty right here at the time of install, this is what was there. Six to eight foot fence, ten feet long. That's really what prohibited them from installing it. It wasn't just the three foot picket fence. That didn't help, but two days after they removed that portion of the fence and then submitted a code violation. That was left out of Mr. Cotton's presentation. I want to make sure you're aware of that.

Alan Clendenin

6:09:54PM Councilwoman Hurtak.

Lynn Hurtak

6:09:55PM Is there a reason that you didn't just put the fence -- leave that photo up. That you didn't just put the fence that you couldn't do on just that portion and then flip it like Mr. Cotton said for the rest. That was the exception. We did replace the pickets. We covered up that portion that is open.

6:10:20PM What I'm asking, is there a reason you couldn't have done that for the pickets? The solid fence might have made sense to face it in, where the pickets were, you could have flipped it around and had the framing face your house. That was on my contractor. Again, I guess we could have. That was after the fact part of the condition of the approval that that was fixed. You theoretically could have. Are you talking about the picket piece?

6:10:51PM Yeah. You could easily get between pickets. It wasn't my request. When they came out to install the fence, that's what they said, that they wouldn't be able to install it properly. Didn't have enough room to install it with the pickets facing out.

6:11:10PM Thank you.

Charlie Miranda

6:11:13PM Couple of questions of the city. The fencing from the front of the house set back from the city line to the front of the house, you can put a three foot picket fence from the front of the house to your property line, giving the city the right-of-way that they have, am I correct?

Eric Cotton

6:11:36PM Development Coordination. So from the front property line back to whatever your required setback is, whether 20 or 25 feet, you can do three feet solid or four feet picket or chain-link or whatever. After that point, you can up to six feet.

Charlie Miranda

6:11:52PM From that point back, the solid side of a wall, call it solid side, that's got to face your neighbor's side.

Eric Cotton

6:12:03PM Correct.

Charlie Miranda

6:12:04PM Your side, you have the four by four --

Eric Cotton

6:12:08PM Correct.

Charlie Miranda

6:12:09PM How was that done here? I don't understand what the whole deal is.

Eric Cotton

6:12:15PM On this specific case --

Alan Clendenin

6:12:24PM If that was all you had to -- can see from a spacing standpoint, that they wouldn't have been able to have the pickets facing outside. There was no room to install it that way. I know you asked as far as the spacing, how much room. There was insufficient room to do so.

Lynn Hurtak

6:12:51PM He showed a measure that showed ten inches. That's plenty of space to put a panel. Laz fencing. I have a letter stating the reasons why they did such.

Alan Clendenin

6:13:13PM We need to finish with him and then we need to move to staff.

Charlie Miranda

6:13:18PM I'll stop. I'm sorry.

Alan Clendenin

6:13:20PM That's okay. Stating what I said on their behalf, if you would like to read it.

6:13:40PM Does anybody else have questions for the property owner? Hearing none, that concludes your portion. Councilman Miranda, do you have any further questions for staff?

Charlie Miranda

6:13:57PM I want to make sure what I see is what I see because the fence is back.

Eric Cotton

6:14:02PM You're correct. Normally the finished side of the fence, which is the clean side that doesn't have the crossbars and four by fours and such usually faces inward to the property. So when you're walking -- me as a neighbor would look out, I would see the finish side of a fence. That's how it is installed by code. So you can see the four by fours, the crossbars, those usually face into your own property when you install a fence.

Alan Clendenin

6:14:39PM There is a discrepancy between this picture and the picture that the property owner showed as far as that gap because that's obviously -- eric, can you leave that up there for a second? Can I ask the property owner to come back up? So this picture looks very different from the one you showed us. The gap there. Can you see that? That was submitted by my neighbor.

6:15:28PM You can throw it on top. Maybe a different angle.

6:15:46PM Thank you. There before.

6:15:55PM Thank you, sir. Any further questions? Public comment. Anybody in the audience wishing to speak to this item? You'll have another chance in a minute. I bought my first house 45 years ago. I can't even tell you how many fences I've put up, taken down, replaced. I would never think of putting the fence in the wrong way. I have always worked with my neighbors, many, many different neighbors to make sure that there was no issues. We've put privacy fences right back, slap up against chain-link fences. I don't see a way in the world that little picket fence was a barrier. If it was a barrier, then you got to move the fence a little over on your property. That is how you are a good neighbor. I've always worked with my neighbors. I can't even tell you how many fences we put in. We've split the cost. We've agreed on which side goes which. We always come to a meeting of the mind, never violated the code no matter what the challenges were. I don't see -- I think the applicant is correct. The design exception should be overturned. Thank you.

6:17:24PM Thank you. Next speaker. I think it should be overturned. Stephanie poynor. Like there is a reason for the rule, and this guy thinks that he should get an exception to the rule, and I wonder how much further in front of the house it's actually supposed to be. I don't know. Just me. But when you build a bad fence, why would you do that anyway? Seriously. If you are going to build a fence, you talk to your neighbor about it, hey, listen, I'm thinking of doing this I want a little more privacy or maybe I hate your guts so I'll put it up backwards just to poke you. Because why else -- I mean, seriously. Why would you do that? I guarantee you the fencing guys didn't do it. Like carroll ann said, she's put up and taken down fences. I'm a property manager. Do you know how many fences I've ensured have been installed properly? Fence guys, whether they speak english or not, do not go and put stuff up against code unless somebody asks them to. The HOA president, who I know, she told him what the rules were and still did it wrong. He didn't care. Why is it that we're here at almost -- after 6:00 at night because somebody was petty and put something in backwards. This is straight up bad fences by bad neighbors. Thank you.

6:19:05PM Anybody else in the public wishing to speak to this item? Anybody, staff, do you have anything you want to add to the case? Now we're going into rebuttal. Sir, aggrieved party. Thank you again for listing all the facts. William heller. Old 2807 Bayshore Way. Thank you for listening to everything. The only thing I would counter with is that letter written by the fencer, of course, they are going to back up their work. I think the reality is, like, that is a letter. The reality, as I showed, that fence can be built correctly with a 10-foot tall solid wall on the other side. The three foot tall picket fence, as you saw with enough space to operate, with room to put it closer to the driveway should be ample. Thanks again for your time. I appreciate it.

6:20:04PM Thank you very much. Can I get a motion to close the public hearing? We have a motion from Councilman Maniscalco. A second from Councilman Miranda to close the hearing. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Ayes have it unanimously. Councilwoman Hurtak.

Lynn Hurtak

6:20:22PM Unless anybody else wants to do it. I move to deny the application for de-1-25-127 for the property located at old 2805 Bayshore Way because the petitioner provided competent and substantial evidence that the application does not meet the criteria in section 27-60 of the City of Tampa code for the following reasons: there was plenty of room to put the fence in correctly.

Guido Maniscalco

6:20:49PM Second.

Lynn Hurtak

6:20:52PM Short and sweet. If you want me to do a little bit more, I can also say -- code section 27-60, subsection e, subsection 5, subsection a, it does interfere with the rights of others as provided in this chapter and --

Alan Clendenin

6:21:19PM I think that's good.

Lynn Hurtak

6:21:22PM And subsection c, it does not achieve the general intent of this chapter and the Tampa Comprehensive Plan.

Alan Clendenin

6:21:28PM Motion from Councilwoman Hurtak. We have a second from Councilman Miranda. -- sorry, Maniscalco. The other Miranda. Roll call.

Guido Maniscalco

6:21:40PM Yes.

Lynn Hurtak

6:21:42PM Yes.

Naya Young

6:21:44PM Yes.

Luis Viera

6:21:45PM Yes.

Bill Carlson

6:21:46PM Yes.

Charlie Miranda

6:21:48PM Yes.

Alan Clendenin

6:21:49PM Yes.

The clerk

6:21:49PM Motion carried unanimously.

Alan Clendenin

6:22:04PM Now we are on ordinance presented for first reading consideration, number 56. Emma Gregory, Legal Department. We are here for item number 56, which is the first reading of an ordinance that would increase the impact fee. I believe before we get into the presentation of the ordinance, there were some questions about some communication that council had received earlier this week and a question about public comment this morning. And we have kathrin tellez, city consultant from the firm of fehr and peers to address some of those concerns. Kathrin tellez, fehr and peers. Here to address the person trip factor used in the analysis. So the factor that we used was 1.69, and that source of that data was from the Florida Department of Transportation based on a publication that they had in 2022. With that data being slightly older than 2022. The comment this morning was related to the use of a factor of 1.4, which was cited from the Hillsborough county mobility fee. And that factor was actually taken from the regional travel demand model based on data that was prior to 2015. So just wanted to point out that the factor used in our study is the most recent information. Also wanted to point out that this factor is used in two places in our calculations. In the first place, we use it to convert the vehicle capacity of roadways to a person trip capacity. So that is the first place that it's used. Then it is also used in the calculations to estimate the person miles of travel that are then subjected to that fee. So we did a calculation where we adjusted that the person factor to 1.4 in both of those places and based on that, if we use the 1.4, the average fee would decrease ever so slightly by 0.5%. So just wanted to point out that if we were to use that different factor, it would have a pretty de minimis effect on the overall fee schedule. Happy to answer any additional questions you might have.

6:24:46PM Does council have any questions? Hearing none.

Emma Gregory

6:24:53PM Legal Department. Just a quick summary of the main points of this ordinance. It will adopt the November 2025 impact fee study, which is completed by fehr and peers and includes lots of additional information in there, and it is attached to the ordinance. It makes a finding of extraordinary circumstances. Makes reference to the two workshops that were completed in September and October. It strikes some out-of-date language in section 25-69. Replaces exhibit one to chapter 25 that is the fee schedule. So that will be the operative change. It will phase the fees in over four years to the maximum increase supported by the study. And the effective date of the ordinance would be June 1, if approved here and at second reading. This ordinance at second reading must be approved by a two-thirds majority. So that is just something for council to keep in mind when considering this proposed ordinance. And we're here for any questions, Brandon and Adam are here from mobility as well.

Alan Clendenin

6:26:09PM Council have any questions? Anybody from the public wish to speak to this item? Blank paper. I'm sorry, council. It's been a long day. I do appreciate your time in giving me this. I've sent you this by e-mail as well.

6:26:59PM We have it. Can you still read that?

6:27:13PM Yep. There's no business impact statement at all, and I think that is still required. Where is the connection between residence and proposed rails and trails and bike lanes? Staff and administrative costs should be specifically limited. Their study says 15%. That should be identified in there so you're not spending more than 15% on administrative and staff costs. And design costs. That's in their report. Calculations regarding the HART. Hartline was used in there and hartline has its own taxing authority. They should not be included in there at all as an expense or as a calculation toward what it costs. Adus are identified in there as 500 square feet. They should probably be at 750 so that they are similar to or they equate to what's in the zoning code. Larger projects install their own, complete infrastructure systems, including streets, intersections, signals through mitigation. Where is that addressed in this? Where is the credit for infill of existing roadway networks that are already there, that they are not going to be building new ones? Demonstrated need for transportation linked to increased population. It's not shown. Where is the connection between increasing the number of bicycle lanes as an impact of residential construction? Not shown. Remove the adoption of vision zero, which is in the report that says it should be adopted and utilized citywide, that should be stricken. The reference from the code and not fully vetted has not been reviewed by this council or any of the affected parties. Nine out of ten of the proposed use of funds in their study is not for transportation network improvements. It's for bicycle lanes and trails. Tampa does not have plans for divided highways, and that was shown in there, nor does it have right-of-way to accomplish that. It is a suburban versus rural plan and not an urban one. Where is the credit for existing roadway networks? Report includes interstate and toll facilities that are not city impact fees. The sizes and average of residential structures needs to be adjusted and the use of 1500 square feet, all of that is increased. They do not have current housing trends. The current lane widths have been reduced because they added bicycle lanes which increases the level of service to the point where they fail. I don't believe that they have met the criteria for extraordinary circumstances. If you don't pass this, they will still be allowed to go to 49% without that. I'm sorry I will not be here on the 18th to argue this at second reading, and I appreciate your consideration.

6:30:09PM Thank you, Mr. Michelini. Yes, ma'am.

Emma Gregory

6:30:17PM Legal Department, Emma Gregory. Can I clarify two things very quickly?

Alan Clendenin

6:30:22PM Yes.

Emma Gregory

6:30:22PM We did submit a business impact estimate. It was uploaded to onbase as part of the agenda package. Regarding administrative costs, those are limited to 2% of the fees collected by section 25-72 of our current code. Thank you.

Alan Clendenin

6:30:40PM Thank you.

Emma Gregory

6:30:44PM I will ask this for your consideration be approved and second reading be on December 18.

Bill Carlson

6:30:53PM I want to ask you, he made a point about, I forgot a large percentage going to bike lanes. Can you address that?

Emma Gregory

6:31:04PM Sure. If one of my colleagues would like to as well. We have multimodal transportation impact fee. That means that modes that add capacity to our system can be funded by the fee. Adam Purcell transportation services director. It's a multimodal fee. What we can spend the money on was established in 2014. It's been in place more than a decade. This update to the multimodal impact fee isn't modifying what we can spend the money on. It's just updating the fees or the rates that are assessed to new development. It's yet to be determined how much of the money collected would be spent on bicycle lanes. It depends on the impacts of the project. It depends on the needs in that zone of the city at the time the money is collected. We showed a couple of examples on the 20th how we can use it for stoplights, how we can use it for left-turn lanes, use it for things like the green artery, how we can use that for multimodal project. Multimodal fee structure established in 2014, this can be used for bike lanes, but the percentage that can be used or will be dedicated bike lanes is at this point undetermined.

Bill Carlson

6:32:25PM I think we ought to add that in at second reading to limit it. I'm in favor of bike lanes. One of the very first motions I made seven years ago was create a citywide bicycle plan. For this, if we are going to raise fees, we have to address problems that are in the community. And the community is crying very loudly that there are too many potholes, that the roads are falling apart. They believe that development is impacting it. If it comes out that we passed an increase in this to fund primarily bike lanes, we're going to have a revolution against us. I think there's some kind of reasonable amount as a standard percentage of what you would spend on multimodal but I think we ought to limit it because the expectations of the community would be that we would fix basic infrastructure. And the problem, I'll say it while I have the floor is that we under invested -- the city has under invested in roads for 20 or more years, at least since the great recession. We're, I think, $2 billion behind on fixing the roads. We can't -- this doesn't allow us to directly go back and do that, but at least it helps us to fix the problem going forward with the impact of the new people moving in. Thank you.

Charlie Miranda

6:33:54PM I'm going to say we can't live on yesteryears with today's future. It doesn't work. The airport is the airport in Tampa because it has transportation like no other place. You can't continue using the streets. We have more and more traffic. More and more buses, and the bus ain't going to make it because there's too much traffic. In the old days, there was no traffic. You got from here to there, you knew you would get there on time. Now you don't know what will happen. You get on the expressway, year later, another lane, it doesn't end. If we don't learn now what the airport has done as a copy of what this city and country should look at, that's light rail overhead so you can move, the bikers can have their bike lanes and the streets would be much less traffic because you have rail to move you. You cannot continue thinking today on yesterday's ideas. It does not work. I'm not criticizing either one of you. I'm speaking in general terms. Unless we change the system under what we do as we call transportation, we will be complete failures forever. And that's e-v-e-r-e-y-d-y-z-y and a-b-c-y -- it's not going to work. It just won't work. We need something. The airport is showing us, without telling us, how do you move 300,000 people, hundred thousand people a day, leave your car and move. Just expand that into the city. And you would be a hit, a great hit. But we're not doing that. We want to spend money on the old way. The old way doesn't work anymore. Not here, not anywhere. Look at any city in the United States of America that has light rail over head and it's moving in the right direction. Look at us, we're at a stand-still. We have great ideas, but they don't work no more. That's just my feeling. I'm not telling I'm hundred percent correct. Thank you very much for doing what you do.

Alan Clendenin

6:35:56PM Thank you, Councilman Miranda. Councilwoman Hurtak.

Lynn Hurtak

6:35:58PM I would have to respectfully disagree with Councilman Carlson because it's clear right now that we're not spending all that much money on bike lanes. And we're not changing what we're going to spend the money on. None of that has changed. And, quite frankly, it's outdated to -- we know we can't move people by cars anymore. We're full. We can fix what we have, but we then do as Councilman Miranda said, we've got to be thinking about moving people by rail, by other ways. So I would just -- I couldn't support something that limited what we spend anywhere. I think it changes year to year. So I wouldn't support that at all.

Alan Clendenin

6:36:42PM Also, just for clarification, the money raised, correct me if I'm wrong, cannot be spent on repaving. Cannot be spent on maintenance. It needs to be spent on new capacity.

Bill Carlson

6:36:57PM I said that earlier as well. I was pointing out, however, that the public is upset because of a lack of investment over the years. And the perception in many parts of the city is that too much money has been spent on bike lanes and not enough on fixing the roads. Fixing the roads is the base level. The reason why we don't have transit is because there have been five failed campaigns that were disasters in the way they were run in pushing this. This is not going to generate enough to create any kind of rail system. I hope that the airport focuses on maintaining the viability of the airport at the time as they are pushing things outside the airport. I'm concerned about that. I'm going to go ahead, because the allocations are not set, I'll vote no on this tonight. If the allocations are set in two weeks, then I'll vote yes. I'm in favor of this, but on the off chance that some rogue administration takes it and spends it on things that the public doesn't want, I'm not in favor of that. I think if we're going to charge people more, the public deserves to know what it will be for. I'll vote no.

Alan Clendenin

6:38:06PM Okay. Any further comments? Motion to close from Councilman Maniscalco. Second from Councilman Viera. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? The ayes have it. Who wants to read it? Councilwoman Hurtak young, do you want to read this one?

Naya Young

6:38:28PM File number e2025-8, chapter 25. An ordinance of the City of Tampa, Florida, amending City of Tampa Code of Ordinances chapter 25, article 1, section 25-69, computation of amount of multimodal transportation impact fee, repealing and replacing City of Tampa Code of Ordinances chapter 25, exhibit 1; by increasing the multimodal transportation impact fee; making findings; adopting an updated impact fee study; providing for adoption and imposition of amended multimodal transportation impact fees by repealing all ordinances or parts of ordinances in conflict therewith; providing for severability; providing an effective date.

Alan Clendenin

6:39:19PM We have a motion from Councilwoman Young. Second from Councilwoman Hurtak. Roll call, please.

Lynn Hurtak

6:39:25PM Yes.

Naya Young

6:39:26PM Yes.

Luis Viera

6:39:27PM Yes.

Bill Carlson

6:39:28PM No.

Charlie Miranda

6:39:29PM No.

Guido Maniscalco

6:39:32PM Yes.

Alan Clendenin

6:39:33PM Yes.

The clerk

6:39:35PM Motion carried with Carlson and Miranda voting no. second reading and adoption will be held on January 8, 2026 At 10:00 a.m. in City Council Chambers, 315 East Kennedy Boulevard, third floor, Tampa, Florida, 33602.

Alan Clendenin

6:39:52PM Correct me if I'm wrong, I believe the only staff report we have left is item 63. I think I missed it. Was that set for December 18?

The clerk

6:40:09PM It is for December 18, 2025. Second reading and adoption will be held on December 18, 2025, At 10:00 a.m.

Emma Gregory

6:40:18PM Thank you very much.

Guido Maniscalco

6:40:27PM [Inaudible]

Alan Clendenin

6:40:27PM I was saying the only one that we need staff for is 63, correct? Seems like it was three years ago that we did this. 63, everybody confirms. Can I get a motion to move --

6:40:44PM 58, 59 and 62. Motion from Councilman Viera. A second from Councilman Miranda. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. 63. So glad you were able to stay with us this evening, Brandon.

Brandon Campbell

6:41:08PM Brandon Campbell, interim director of the Mobility department. Here to speak briefly on item 63, which was the consideration for the removal of what we call condition one in the in lieu fee justification. That is the condition where there is a sidewalk -- where there's not likely to be a sidewalk to be connected to due to oncoming development. I did want to mention that with the increase in the in lieu fees enacted by you all earlier this year, we have seen a significant decrease in the number of permit applications that are relying on condition one for the sole justification to contribute to in lieu fees as opposed to building the sidewalk with the redevelopment of that parcel. Over the last couple of months, we've seen that around like two permits per month that that is the case for, where it's condition one only and $220 per linear foot. Previously, the average earlier this year was more like 18 to 10 when it was a $29 per linear foot unit cost. So I wanted to mention that whether you choose to take action on pursuing an elimination of that justification, we are seeing a reduction in the number of permits that that is coming into play for. Though it's not zero. That said, I know emma is here if needed. We could come back to you at a time of your choosing with a proposed ordinance to make that change based on your discussion today.

Alan Clendenin

6:42:57PM Councilman Carlson.

Bill Carlson

6:42:58PM What do you recommend, Brandon? And thank you for staying all day. I know it's a long day for all of you.

Brandon Campbell

6:43:05PM Because the amount that is charged for in lieu fees now is reflective of our costs to build sidewalks, in those limited cases where condition one is relied upon for that scenario, I'm comfortable that we can select projects that are meaningful that we can apply that funding for. So it really truly is a coin flip from my perspective as to whether that is a better thing to leave within the range of justifications or if you would prefer that we administer those projects. Of course, there is a little bit of an administrative lift for us, for those projects, but it collects fairly slowly or we would anticipate it continuing to collect fairly slowly given that it's two or three permits a month.

Bill Carlson

6:43:59PM I know it's a lot of work, but I think it would be worth having you all draft that, come back in January or February, and on a day when it's not so late, and we'll hear what the public says about the specifics at that point. At least I've heard a lot of complaints about this. An example was given this morning of kind of the empty spaces around sidewalks. If you guys want, I can make a motion or somebody else can make a motion.

Alan Clendenin

6:44:36PM Councilman Miranda and Maniscalco.

Charlie Miranda

6:44:37PM Look, we have a week or so next week, I just want you to go by Columbus Drive, not far away, and Macdill Avenue and head on North Macdill Avenue, bank in the corner, head north, first street called Aileen. What you're going to see is a brand-new house that's just been built. About a week or so from being able to move in. Sidewalk from Aileen to the next block. However, it ends because there is an oak tree about this big, so the sidewalk runs into an oak tree. I tell myself who in the hell will walk on the sidewalk when you have to go back out to the street when it ends with an oak tree. I don't understand it. It's beyond me. The intelligence that we have to do that. It ends right there. It ends at an oak tree. What are you going to do? Climb the tree? I don't know. I'm not against building sidewalk. I'm telling you what I see. It's ridiculous. Tell me if I'm right or wrong. Who will build a sidewalk that ends at an oak tree? You would be in the street. If not, private property.

Alan Clendenin

6:45:50PM Councilman Maniscalco.

Guido Maniscalco

6:45:51PM I have nothing.

Alan Clendenin

6:45:52PM Councilwoman Hurtak.

Lynn Hurtak

6:45:54PM I absolutely want you to write that ordinance because, I mean, we've got e-mails from walk bike Tampa. We've seen multiple, not just this morning, which was a very egregious example, but we've seen examples over and over that the public has shown us, that we would have an entire street with sidewalks if we just had this part stricken from the ordinance. If Councilman Carlson wants to make the motion, I will gladly second it because this is something we need to close the loophole on.

Alan Clendenin

6:46:31PM Somebody pick out a date.

Bill Carlson

6:46:35PM I would like to say on my street, this has made a huge difference because the new houses that have been built have built sidewalks. We had the same thing, we have trees, so we can't put them everywhere. Even when I'm walking with my sons, there's somebody in a wheelchair that's getting pushed down my street in the middle of the road. It's really dangerous. Every chance we get, we pop back up on the sidewalk and pop back down. Eventually I hope it will all connect. Even if it is in front of one or two houses, it just feels safer to be on the sidewalk than the middle of the road, especially for people in wheelchairs. I would like to make a motion to ask staff to come back with a draft ordinance February 5.

Alan Clendenin

6:47:17PM We have a motion from Councilman Carlson. Second from Councilwoman Hurtak. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. That concludes our business for the day.

Charlie Miranda

6:47:32PM No.

Alan Clendenin

6:47:32PM Don't say no.

Charlie Miranda

6:47:33PM I'm disappointed.

Alan Clendenin

6:47:34PM We still have new business.

Charlie Miranda

6:47:38PM New business.

Alan Clendenin

6:47:40PM Are there any pussycats you need to give a commendation to? Councilman Carlson, any new business?

Bill Carlson

6:47:50PM There was a request to start at that side.

Alan Clendenin

6:47:53PM We'll start at this side.

Charlie Miranda

6:47:55PM As you know, I've missed a couple of meetings here lately. The problem was, you go see a doctor, that moment, that time, it's either you feel very good or you pass a physical and everything looks fine. But ten minutes later you may not be fine. And this is what saved my life. Because I had this in my drawer. I kept feeling tired and worn out, wanting to go to sleep at 5:00, 6:00 in the evening. Completely wore out. Not me. I found this in my desk and put it in. When I did it, oxygen meter. My oxygen was 96, heart rate was 32. I said, huh. I thought it was this. Bought me another one, put it in. 32 again. By coincidence, my yearly appointment with my cardiologist. I went to see him and told him. Let me give you a ekg. Read it. I said I can see it here. Something wrong with the bottom part. He said go see the electrician. Who? The electrician. Another doctor that does pacemakers. So I had a pacemaker installed. You are in deep trouble because I don't get tired no more. If you think you had trouble before, baby, you are in for a ride.

Alan Clendenin

6:49:22PM Congratulations. Things like that happen, you go to the emergency room.

Charlie Miranda

6:49:28PM I had surgery right away.

Alan Clendenin

6:49:31PM You said you waited to go to the doctor.

Charlie Miranda

6:49:33PM I went to the doctor, three days away. I don't want to go to the emergency room.

Alan Clendenin

6:49:41PM I'm glad you're still with us.

Charlie Miranda

6:49:44PM I was hoping I would be in another place in heaven. I checked out --

Alan Clendenin

6:49:48PM I wouldn't count on the heaven part of that.

Charlie Miranda

6:49:52PM Well, I did. That's why I'm here.

Alan Clendenin

6:49:58PM You better hold on as long as you can while you have cool weather.

Charlie Miranda

6:50:02PM The battery lasts 10 or 12 years. So you have problems.

Alan Clendenin

6:50:07PM Councilman Maniscalco.

Guido Maniscalco

6:50:08PM Thank you very much. File form 8b from earlier today. I have it here signed.

Alan Clendenin

6:50:14PM Motion from Councilman Maniscalco to accept his form for recusal. Second from Councilman Viera. All in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have it.

Guido Maniscalco

6:50:21PM I have two commendations to give. Like to make a motion to present a commendation to villa madonna catholic school on their 90th anniversary. Present off-site at celebration scheduled for February 7, 2026.

Alan Clendenin

6:50:36PM Motion from Councilman Maniscalco. Second from Councilman Viera. All in favor, aye? Opposed? Ayes have it.

Guido Maniscalco

6:50:43PM Thank you very much. Then I would like to present a commendation to the International Longshoremen for 90th anniversary. We had Andre Davis, their President This morning. January 22 under ceremonial. The jcc for holocaust remembrance day, so it is open.

Alan Clendenin

6:51:08PM Motion from Councilman Maniscalco. A second from Councilman Miranda. All in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have it.

Guido Maniscalco

6:51:17PM Just an announcement. I would like to invite everyone to join Councilman Miranda and I tomorrow, Friday, December 5, at 11 a.m. as we honor the legacy of jay leonard levy and George Levy with a street renaming dedication at the southeast corner of himes and West Ohio Avenue, parking will be available in the gated grassy area behind the unveiling of the street sign. Please let me know if you are able to attend. And then I'd like to welcome macaulay culkin to Tampa. He is at the straz tonight. I wanted to get him here for the invocation this morning. That would have been great. He is showing home alone. That's it. Thank you very much.

Alan Clendenin

6:52:02PM Could have sat with us all day. Councilwoman Hurtak.

Lynn Hurtak

6:52:05PM No.

Alan Clendenin

6:52:07PM Wow. Councilwoman Young.

Naya Young

6:52:10PM I have a motion. Community lost a really great person this week, Mr. Stanley gray with the urban league. So I move to make a motion to present posthumous commendation to the family of the late stanley gray recognizing his achievements, contributions and service he gave to the City of Tampa community. I know Councilman Viera was really great friends with Mr. Gray.

Alan Clendenin

6:52:51PM We have a motion from Councilwoman Young. Second from Councilman Miranda. All in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have it unanimously.

Guido Maniscalco

6:52:57PM With the urban league, how he helped revive it and the galas he would have, top-notch. Had one at the fire station on Florida Avenue, and it was like 1920s elegant. It was awesome. He was always very kind to me and I respected him for what he did. He was one of the fearless individuals he went in, he had a mission, and we would see him at coffee shops. He would tell me about his background and his life and his love of cars. Just a wonderful guy.

Naya Young

6:53:32PM Their office was in --

Luis Viera

6:53:37PM It was next to -- I'm so tired.

Naya Young

6:53:43PM Encore. I would go to talk to him. We want to be sure we honor him.

Luis Viera

6:53:54PM I was going to say that with stanley, the term that I think of is -- he wore a lot of hats. He was a very proud marine. Always involved in veteran issues. He did not suffer fools. If he did not like you, you would know it. And he would let you know where you stood with him. I always liked that of him. He was a good guy.

Alan Clendenin

6:54:16PM Did you have anything else?

Luis Viera

6:54:19PM Nothing in terms of this motion. I do have some motions.

Bill Carlson

6:54:24PM Did we vote for that?

Alan Clendenin

6:54:28PM Councilman Viera, new business?

Luis Viera

6:54:30PM Couple of things. Three quick ones. Mr. Shelby, did we send the resolution around?

6:54:38PM Council, we can put it on the docket for December 18. You saw in the news where the president of the united states what is known as the r word to refer to people with intellectual disabilities. So I drafted a resolution. The resolution does not mention the president by name, not that anybody cares. Just because it has a larger thing that exceeds the limited moral compass of President Donald Trump and goes to so many different issues. For me, it is part of a larger cruelty that I think we're seeing in the country. See it in the news with somalians, haitians, afghans, cubans, venezuelans, different people. Taking out the humanity in how we are supposed to treat people. It is something city related given our record on people with intellectual disabilities. So I would like to motion to put that on December 18 if we may.

Alan Clendenin

6:55:35PM Motion from Councilman Viera. Second from Councilman Maniscalco. All those in favor aye. Opposed? Ayes have it unanimously.

Luis Viera

6:55:43PM Next, you all know this gentleman Donald Gordon who works at hanna. He is a security guard there. African American male, about 65 years old. He is a great guy. United states marine. Vietnam veteran. Combat veteran. Donald took a trip to africa. It was just a trip of a lifetime that I believe he and his wife took.

6:56:09PM I have it written down. It was a spot where he saw a lot of areas where enslaved africans were taken on SHIPs and did the middle passage where two million died. It was Ghana.

Lynn Hurtak

6:56:31PM It's amazing. I've been there. The castle, it was very emotional.

Luis Viera

6:56:36PM I could only imagine. What I wanted to do was for five minutes on February 18 for black history month to allow Donald, who is again, provides security at hanna, to come and briefly speak about his trip. I think it is so meaningful. Such a nice guy. He did a City of Tampa video for Vietnam Veterans Day, and he is a good soul.

Alan Clendenin

6:56:56PM Is he able to get away that day? We have a motion from Councilman Viera. Second from Councilman Miranda. All those in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have it.

Luis Viera

6:57:08PM Last, if I may, I should have gotten a date. This goes to some things we heard in public comment. I want to have legal guidance on this issue. This is my motion. I motion for legal staff to give an opinion on hate speech in City Council and the ability of the City of Tampa to ban and/or restrict somebody based on their repeated expressions of hatred and bigotry. We heard what this gentleman, I use the term so very liberally, gentleman tony daniels continues to say. I do think that we need guidance on what we can do. Obviously, what he's saying, everybody up here opposes 110%. I just do think we need legal guidance because this person is going to continue to push and push and push and we need to have legal guidance on what we can do. And that's my motion. And let me find a date.

Alan Clendenin

6:58:05PM Sidebar information for that, know that I have been in constant communication with marty, with the city attorney, with the attorney for our Tampa PD. The reason I was late the one time when you all were waiting for me, I wasn't here, I was conferring with the attorneys about the situation. There are different, based on my research and I think marty's, too, you see a little bit of a flex in the decisions that have come out over the last couple of years. The court systems have changed. There was a time gave a lot more latitude to the people making public comment. And there may be an opportunity but we don't know right now.

Luis Viera

6:58:53PM If I may, I would like to do it on January 22. If legal needs more time, please just ask and it shall be granted. That's my motion.

Alan Clendenin

6:59:02PM I refer to the los angeles City Council has really taken big steps forward on this, by the way. Motion from Councilman Viera. Second from Councilman Maniscalco. All those in favor aye. Opposed? Ayes have it.

Lynn Hurtak

6:59:14PM It's February 19, not February 18 for that previous motion. You'll have to --

Luis Viera

6:59:22PM If I may, the one with Donald Gordon hereby move to February 19 as opposed to 18.

Alan Clendenin

6:59:29PM Motion to amend the previous passed motion. Motion from Councilman Viera. Second from Councilwoman Hurtak. All in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have it.

Bill Carlson

6:59:40PM Sorry to hold up everybody. Number one, wouldn't let me say it earlier, I strongly object to the use of the f word.

Alan Clendenin

6:59:49PM It was better at that point --

Bill Carlson

6:59:53PM I understand. I think you as chair have the right to do that. The flip side, whether it is the r word, n word or f word, the community thinks that we should state that we're against it. I think what council member Viera just said shows that. But we want to support free speech, but we also don't want to support hate speech. Send my condolences also to the family of stanley gray. A regular at catholic on Tampa. Saw him at least once a week. He helped so many ways. Worked two or three years, before he was -- with the revival of the Tampa urban league, which was a really important thing. Another thing, I can't talk to you guys outside the room so I want to mention this. There is this bricks to bright ideas event that I think you're putting on in Ybor City. My day job is in ybor so I spend a lot of time there. Somebody in communication was using alliteration which sounds nice, but putting bricks to bright ideas makes it sound like it's going to be a discussion about the rebricking of 7th idea. I would ask that they change that because there still is -- like you all have been in some of the neighborhood meetings in Ybor City, if the community wants us to have a discussion about that, it should be a CRA discussion and it should be separate from the discussions that are there. It's your meeting, if you think that should be part of it, go ahead. Otherwise, you might just ask communication to change that. Otherwise, we might have a bunch of people come to talk about bricks instead of talking about the other issues. Separate from that, I spent some time talking to several folks, in particular, carroll ann Bennett about the tree trust fund. There is a question about how would we govern it? We need to fix the internal transactions. I also talked to whit remer about the one issue with stormwater charging the tree trust fund and we can resolve that with internal agreements. But the other thing is how much should be allocated each time and who should oversee it? We have a thing called the Natural Resources Committee, although it needs to be repopulated and stepped up again. But what carroll ann Bennett and I were discussing, why don't we have a discussion about putting the Natural Resources Committee, which is appointed by us and the mayor, to oversee or give guidance as to how the tree trust fund money should be allocated. I would like to move to have a discussion on February 5 or another date you pick as to whether to assign oversight of the tree trust funds to the city's Natural Resources Committee.

Alan Clendenin

7:02:48PM Is that a workshop?

Martin Shelby

7:02:53PM Would you like a written staff report?

Bill Carlson

7:02:55PM No, no, a discussion.

Alan Clendenin

7:02:58PM That sounds like a workshop issue.

Bill Carlson

7:03:03PM I don't remember. I picked the date early this morning.

Martin Shelby

7:03:09PM Six items on February 26 workshop.

Bill Carlson

7:03:16PM What is the next one?

Lynn Hurtak

7:03:19PM April 23.

Bill Carlson

7:03:22PM April 23.

Lynn Hurtak

7:03:24PM Conveniently, we're going to have staff to provide a report approving the transfer of the money -- it's perfect. That's when we're talking about the tree trust fund again.

Bill Carlson

7:03:38PM If you guys have a better idea, fine. At least this puts it on the calendar on how to provide oversight.

Alan Clendenin

7:03:45PM Motion from Councilman Carlson. A second from Councilwoman Hurtak. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Ayes have it.

Bill Carlson

7:03:51PM Next, the thing that Mr. Michelini was talking about earlier and also sandy sanchez and others, and I might get this motion slightly wrong, like to make a motion for council to have a discussion, I picked January 29, you can pick a different date, with each other, that means among us and staff regarding the possibility of pausing code violations under chapters 19 during the permitting process.

Guido Maniscalco

7:04:23PM Second.

Alan Clendenin

7:04:24PM We have a motion from Councilman Carlson. Second from Councilman Maniscalco.

Guido Maniscalco

7:04:29PM You mean if a property is trying to be in compliance, while they are waiting -- to pause the fines if they are showing good -- not even good faith. They are taking steps to remedy their problem.

Bill Carlson

7:04:42PM This would be to have the discussion about whether or not we should do that, not to decide it.

Lynn Hurtak

7:04:49PM I believe Ms. Pettis-mackle today said that was chapter 19.

Bill Carlson

7:04:56PM I added chapter 19.

Alan Clendenin

7:04:58PM We have a motion from Councilman Carlson. Second from Councilman Maniscalco. Any further discussion? All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Ayes have it.

Bill Carlson

7:05:05PM One last thing, and this is a long discussion for another day, again, I can't talk to you guys outside. Several public comments about folks about the South Howard project. I would encourage you all to meet with elizabeth may and some of the other neighborhoods. A whole army of neighborhood people in Palma Ceia Pines, Parkland Estates and others that have been researching this issue. They have gone back to the '80s and I think even the '70s looking at the data on this. I was the first person in the city to go to Palma Ceia Pines the day after the storm, and I had two people from the neighborhood in my car driving around. We saw the lack of maintenance. Day or two later, somebody from Parkland Estates met with them and suddenly they decided this project is the perfect project and it needs to go forward exactly as is. For some reason, not listening to any other solutions. Our duty is to find the best solutions to be the most effective. What the data shows, the narrative that this is a ten-year-old project comes from one person in Parkland Estates. The Palma Ceia Pines project goes back at least to the '80s. There was an analysis back then. The reason why it's flooding, in x area but in a bowl. The water flows down in there. The retention ponds built were built above grade. Instead of the water going in, when they fill up, the water pours out and they weren't permitted. They weren't dug out. You can call that maintenance or call IT infrastructure, whatever you want. That water and that basin flows out cleveland to the west. It doesn't go south. There are problems with the cleveland cull very often system that need to be fix -- culvert system that need to be fixed. Not in the thing. Engineers working on the process have admitted privately that Palma Ceia Pines, no infrastructure going in Palma Ceia Pines. It's barely going to help Palma Ceia Pines or Parkland Estates. Only four inches of rain when milton was 11. Palma Ceia Pines will not be addressed until phase two, which is five or six years away and there's no money without raising taxes to pay for the part in Palma Ceia Pines. I tried talking to the folks from Palma Ceia Pines. For some reason think talking with one person, staff or mayor, the perfect project. They can call me whatever names they want, but I'm trying to find the best solution to protect them. The solution that appears to be correct, if you start in the '80s and look at all the recommendations going forward, there is a strong recommendation to do a Palma Ceia Pines project first. If we fix Palma Ceia Pines, it will keep the water from overflowing into Parkland Estates. I'll leave it there and talk more another day.

Alan Clendenin

7:07:54PM We'll have the discussion again because it will come back to us, right?

Bill Carlson

7:08:01PM I think so. It only comes up in response to proposals on money. What I would ask you all to do is please have an open mind and listen to all the data. It's not about politics. It's about the science of it. All the people working on this privately are saying, yeah, you can look at the documents yourself. Palma Ceia Pines was not even included in any documents until a month after the storms. The reason why they haven't done any robust study of Palma Ceia Pines is because we changed the purchasing system a couple of years ago. If they go more than 50% over budget, it has to go back out for an RFP. And that's why they can't have a project that includes a robust solution for Palma Ceia Pines. The people that are fighting for this project are the ones who are going to get screwed the most by it. We need to disconnect it and do a Palma Ceia Pines first project and then go back and look at everything else. All the science, all the research is there. You guys can look through it yourselves.

Alan Clendenin

7:09:07PM Councilwoman Hurtak.

Lynn Hurtak

7:09:07PM I have been talking to the people behind the scenes. That's not what they are telling me. I look forward to the conversation. I don't necessarily agree. That is not what I'm hearing from behind the scenes. I'm listening. Trying to keep an open mind, but that has not been my experience. I'm still willing to listen to everyone.

Alan Clendenin

7:09:35PM I think everything is on the table. We're all still gathering facts because there have been cost escalations. Rolls in and make a final determination based on what is presented to us as the final best product and go from there. My mind is wide open on this. Wide open on it. We'll see. I've supported moving forward along the way, but if new facts become available, I'll -- I have one more thing to say.

Lynn Hurtak

7:10:04PM This is also a discussion. We were all called this week to talk about the fact that the administration is Planning to sell big blue. It's only $36 million is what they are hoping to get for that. We all know we can't even build forensics facility for less than 40 million. I do not know where we are going to get the money to buy or pay for a new police station right now. Personally I'm disappointed that we weren't asked our opinions. There's been no discussion. So many moving parts. This isn't just selling something and getting money. It's what do we do with the money? It's how do we pay for something new when we clearly don't have the money to pay for something new. So I know we're kind of in a rock and a hard place because big blue is not in good shape. But what do we do? I think that we as a council, along with the administration, should have that conversation instead of them just simply telling us that they are going to sell something without talking about all of the implications from that.

Alan Clendenin

7:11:18PM Councilman Viera and then Maniscalco.

Luis Viera

7:11:19PM Perhaps that could be a motion for council discussion. This is a huge issue. Many questions. I met with staff on it this week. I dealt with issues such as what happened to TPD being on hanna. Is the refusal of doing that going to cost us another $70 million? Smaller issues such as what's going to happen to the Tampa Police museum? What's going to happen to the Tampa Police memorial that's out there? Again, by the way, obviously, we're dealing with an administration where the mayor is former Chief of Police. Chief John Bennett, et cetera, et cetera. Not saying anything will happen with that. Things that we need to speak about as City Council, but, again, what happened to them moving into hanna? We have a huge space there. Things like that. The questions among many others. I do think it would be reasonable to have some sort of discussion, even on a waiver of the rules, so long as we're not here until 7:13. That's it.

Alan Clendenin

7:12:19PM Councilman Maniscalco.

Guido Maniscalco

7:12:20PM When they talk about the condition of the building, I think I have photos of the construction of the building from the early '60s in my personal things that I've collected. It is a well-built building. Steel beams and concrete, whatever, mid century style. How much money was spent on this building here, 1915 city hall? When I got elected it was covered in scaffolding for years and like six or seven million dollars to touch up and restore this building, which it looks the same, but it is an old building, historic and needs a lot of work. I think one of the problems that we have in this country is if a building, it seems like once it hits 50 years and this building is over 60 years, quick demolish it and knock it down. You go to europe and other countries, they have buildings, telling Councilman Carlson, my aunt has an apartment in a castle from the 1700s. They didn't demolish it. All the original stone and everything. We are so quick to throw things away. Number one. $36 million if that is the number, what are you going to replace that with? I think we're still paying the no interest -- sorry, the no payment, no whatever the bond from the greco era when he bought. Is big blue even paid for? That's another question because it came up several years ago. Also, what is the new police station going to cost? Forensic lab $40 million, hundred million dollars police station? It's very interesting. 400 million. I had one person call me in a panic one day, saying I've got to meet with you. The way they are spending money. I said why don't we turn it into a boutique hotel. I don't want somebody to buy it and demolish it and then some ridiculous tower get put on there. But the fact is, why can't we restore it? Mayor buckhorn put the money in here, in this building, and this is historic, 110-year-old building. Again, people call me cheap -- you call me cheap. We were in the building the other day for the Christmas tree lighting, beautiful murals in there that you can't replicate. It's like a movie set inside.

Lynn Hurtak

7:14:38PM Tile murals, too.

Guido Maniscalco

7:14:40PM Exactly. You walk through the building, it is very, very interesting. I'm concerned. I look forward to this discussion.

Alan Clendenin

7:14:46PM Councilman Carlson.

Bill Carlson

7:14:48PM Yeah, I think we need to focus on brutalism as the main. [ laughter ] council member Viera mentioned hanna and you all correct me if I don't remember this right, but when we were first approaching Hanna Avenue, they were going to put an office building and then across the tracks put a police headquarters. Together, they were going to cost a hundred million. And then they were going to sell the spruce property and sell the blue building. So the net of it would be like 60 million for two buildings. And then the community said they didn't want the police headquarters there. They came back and said, well, now we'll do one building. That's 108 million. Ended up being 126 or whatever. And now Chief Bercaw said the new police headquarters might be 400 million. How did we go from 40, 50 million to whatever. What I would ask for is Chief Bercaw and team work with us and work with the community. Let's have a dialogue and conversation. It should not be a thing where they dare us to vote up or down. You are either for the police or against the police. Let's have a dialogue. It took a long time for us to get what we think is the final number on debt. I think the number they finally gave us was 3.5 billion, including the pension. So if we -- all the things that they are talking about, if we add it in, we would be over 4 billion in debt. We need to think carefully about that. The last thing is that Hanna Avenue project started in 2016. In 2018, now, that's before this mayor took over and before I got in, but in 2018, the building across the street, Tampa city center sold for 128 million. We could have bought that building and rented a bunch of it out and broken even on it and we would have supported downtown. The county, what was it, 30 years ago, bought the mack building and now it is the fred karl county center. That was originally an office building that they bought. I would just ask the city to look carefully. This isn't about building monuments with plaques on it and putting people's names on it. It's about doing the best thing for taxpayers.

Alan Clendenin

7:17:20PM Charlie Miranda plaza. [ laughter ] Councilwoman Hurtak.

Lynn Hurtak

7:17:28PM Do we want -- do we want to have --

Alan Clendenin

7:17:33PM Let me get clarification. The city is put RFP. I made inquiries as well. There's nothing that compels -- the RFP is within the administrative right. After that, it transfers to us. We are not compelled to sell, even if somebody comes at full-price offer. But any contract has to come -- so they get to do this. So we will have complete oversight of this process.

Charlie Miranda

7:17:58PM [Inaudible]

Lynn Hurtak

7:18:03PM But the thing that bothered me, it's not a conversation. Yes, you got an appraisal. That would have great information, something to share with us. Thinking about big blue, here is the appraisal, what do you think? Hate for them to go through the work, we discuss it and decide, no, we're not going to do that.

Alan Clendenin

7:18:26PM That is the risk they run.

Lynn Hurtak

7:18:30PM It's an acre plus in downtown core. We're about to do that with the army navy building. We are still going to own that land and they are building something there. Why can't we consider something like that? So there is a lot to talk about. I don't know if you want to have a discussion or if you want to wait to see what happens.

Alan Clendenin

7:18:48PM I say wait until the RFP.

Lynn Hurtak

7:18:54PM It's not speculation that we have to do something.

Alan Clendenin

7:18:56PM RFP is just coming out. Next meeting maybe come up with a motion if you like.

Bill Carlson

7:19:02PM -- once the RFP is done.

Alan Clendenin

7:19:08PM Come up with a motion at the next meeting and put thought into what you want because we have time. Next meeting, bring a motion back and do it then.

Naya Young

7:19:24PM That's why you weren't calling on me. I forgot to turn my --

Alan Clendenin

7:19:27PM Correct. That's how I know somebody wants to speak is when the light is on.

Naya Young

7:19:31PM Maybe it would be good to hear what the plan is. I'm very much a planner --

Alan Clendenin

7:19:39PM Somebody want a motion for staff to bring it back?

Naya Young

7:19:44PM Even if it is in the draft. To hear, we sell, now what. What happens after.

Lynn Hurtak

7:19:51PM We only have four staff reports on January 22. Did we add any more today, Suling -- sorry, Ms. Harris Lucas.

7:20:09PM So we still have room. That would make six.

Martin Shelby

7:20:13PM What about the workshop day?

Lynn Hurtak

7:20:17PM No. so the 22nd, I motion that staff come back --

Bill Carlson

7:20:31PM Let's frame it as a discussion. We want to have a discussion.

Alan Clendenin

7:20:39PM You could have a staff report.

Lynn Hurtak

7:20:40PM How about this? I make a motion that council have a conversation with staff about the future of big blue, the Police Department headquarters, and debt. And the evidence -- well, I don't want to put that in it. I want to focus just on the headquarters.

Alan Clendenin

7:21:01PM We have a motion from Councilwoman Hurtak. A second from Councilman Viera. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. Councilman Viera.

Luis Viera

7:21:09PM I strongly support the motion. My issue isn't as much debt --

Naya Young

7:21:20PM If you all are available to come to a listening session in ybor -- I did not come up with the name. I think it is the 16th from 6 to 7. I think mobility and TPD are leading it. The name was not me. It is something that we can talk about and ask them if it is possible to change. I'm pretty sure they are going to put it out. If you all are available to come.

Luis Viera

7:21:54PM I was going to say on the previous issue, I think a discussion is big. For me, the debt issue is one thing. Bigger issue for me is having a community discussion with the proper foundation. Because once the contract comes through to us, there is a different level of scrutiny applied. There is a -- I don't want to say a presumption, whatever you want to call it, but beginning that discussion now on what's going to happen to TPD, how we're going to build a financial bridge to get there, I think that is really important. Get the big picture and not deal with step one and all the steps.

Lynn Hurtak

7:22:28PM I agree. Whether we renovate it or not, we need somewhere for them to go. It is a health safety issue, absolutely. We want them to be in a good place, but we have to be able to do it with the amount of money we have right now, and maybe that is a temporary home for a while. If that's the case, that's the case. But what is the goal? I think that is the conversation we all want to have because we all want to be able to support.

Alan Clendenin

7:22:55PM One last thing for me, reference tony daniels shirt today. Profanity on the back. The front of the shirt, the word sissy. I don't know if you remember the conversation we had over a year ago here, gay men of my age, that word was an inflammatory, derogatory. People would beat people up and call them that. It was a defamatory name and hurtful to people in the lgbt community. It is also a hate word. It's slanderous. As far as I'm concerned, somebody my age, almost as offensive as the other words we talked about tonight. But I just wanted to bring that clarification. I know he's done it before. I wanted to call him out of order today. I didn't get -- you know, there was some question. I was this close, but I didn't. That's it. I wanted to make sure everybody understood where I was coming from.

Lynn Hurtak

7:23:52PM Maybe -- well, not maybe, but with inflammatory language on shirts.

Alan Clendenin

7:23:58PM We have no signs. I think shirts are like a sign. Motion to receive and file. Motion to receive and file from Councilman Miranda. Second from Councilman Maniscalco. All in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. We are adjourned. [ sounding gavel ] disclaimer: this file represents an unedited version of realtime captioning which should neither be relied upon for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim transcript. Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the proceedings may need to hire a court reporter. ▶ meeting video the information contained in these pages represents an unedited version of realtime captioning which should neither be relied upon for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim transcript. Persons requiring a verbatim transcript may need to hire a court reporter. © - City of Tampa (813) 274-8211