Workshop — June 25, 2026 FINAL
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Chapters
Alan Clendenin
9:04:17AM Welcome to city hall. I would like to call this meeting of Tampa City Council's workshop to order. Clerk, can we -- actually, let's have the invocation first, I guess. Councilman Maniscalco.
Guido Maniscalco
9:04:28AM Yes, sir. It's my pleasure to welcome Caz Kim, who is a rising senior at Strawberry Crest High School. She has been an active member of the Mayor's Youth Corps since her freshman year and currently serves as social media director of the Mobile Journalism Committee. Born and raised in Tampa, Caz enjoys drawing, crafting, and writing stories in her free time, often finding inspiration in her community. Caz, thank you for being here. If we could please stand for the invocation and remain standing for the pledge of allegiance. As we gather together this bright morning, let us pause and reflect on the responsibility placed in our hands. We come together not just as individuals, but as a group united by a shared purpose -- to serve and support the community we represent. May we be guided by a sense of wisdom that helps us look beyond what is right in front of us and think about the future we are shaping together. May clear thinking and the courage to act guide our decisions. Remembering that each choice we make affects the lives of others. Let us remember that leadership is not a privilege for a few but a responsibility we all share. In every discussion, may we aim for the common good, respect for one another matters and fairness is something we actively build on. May the work we do today be grounded in integrity, teamwork, and a strong commitment to the values that bring us together. Seeking justice, creating opportunities and building something meaningful for those we serve. In our conversations, may we keep our minds open, our thinking clear, and our actions true to the trust we've been given. Let this time together remind us that when we work as one, we are stronger and through that strength, we can create real change. May we move forward with purpose, inspired not only by what we need to do today, but by the future we are working towards together. Thank you. [Pledge of allegiance]
Alan Clendenin
9:06:36AM Thank you very much for that invocation this morning. Clerk, would you please call the roll?
Charlie Miranda
9:06:41AM Here.
Guido Maniscalco
9:06:42AM Here.
Lynn Hurtak
9:06:43AM Here.
Naya Young
9:06:44AM Here.
Luis Viera
9:06:45AM Here.
Bill Carlson
9:06:46AM Here.
Alan Clendenin
9:06:47AM Here.
The Clerk
9:06:48AM We have a physical quorum.
Alan Clendenin
9:06:49AM Good morning. Just a reminder, this is a workshop. Mr. Shelby, would you please remind folks the rules of workshop and public comment?
Martin Shelby
9:07:04AM Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good morning, City Council, members of the public. Martin Shelby, City Council attorney, here to talk about the rules of decorum. With a workshop, public comment relative to the item is taken after the presentation and questions and answers by City Council of each individual item. There is no opportunity for general public comment at a workshop. So it's limited to agenda items and only public comment after each agenda item. A three-minute time limit applies to all speakers providing public comment, and speakers and members of the public are please reminded that you are to refrain from disruptive behavior, including making vulgar or threatening remarks or making or causing disruptive noises or sounds or displaying signs or graphics. We ask that you direct your comments to the entire City Council rather than to individual members. And the chair Will rule out of order any person who speaks without being recognized or attempts to address the council from outside the speaker area at the podium. The persons failing to comply with the council's rules may be ruled out of order by the chair, and at the discretion of the chair may be removed from the chambers and old city hall for the remainder of today's workshop meeting. Finally, City Council should refrain from engaging a speaker during public comment, and the public should be aware that the City Council does not take questions or have a dialogue during general public comment. By the way, there's not general public comment. You can certainly comment on each individual item that's relative to a workshop. Be reminded, City Council, that during a workshop, under your rules, you also have the opportunity to ask questions of anyone present in the audience. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Alan Clendenin
9:08:50AM Thank you, Mr. Shelby. Let's do an agenda review. I do have a memorandum from Councilwoman Young requesting that item number 6 is continued to September 24, 2026.
Naya Young
9:09:01AM Yes. And because I know at our last meeting we had continued kind of like the noise, just to have everything at one meeting, I want to continue it.
Lynn Hurtak
9:09:11AM I apologize for not connecting that.
Naya Young
9:09:14AM No worries.
Alan Clendenin
9:09:15AM I'll take that as a motion from Councilwoman Young, second from Viera, all in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. Any other changes or anything we want to talk about the agenda? Motion to accept the agenda? Motion from Councilman Viera, second from Councilman Miranda. All in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. Very good. First, I want to take a moment of privilege, thinking about Michael Randolph. He's recovering. I hope he has a speedy recovery. Good morning, sir. I am sure we will miss you today and hopefully we'll see you next week. Item number 1.
Martin Shelby
9:10:12AM Good morning, Mr. Chairman, City Council. Martin Shelby, City Council attorney. On your agenda is makes reference to a resolution, which was originally distributed to you by e-mail on May 29 in an underlined and striked-through version and a clean version, which was uploaded in onbase in anticipation of your June 4 agenda where you did a first reading at that time. Now, we had a discussion just last week, and i've taken that opportunity, as Mr. Steady has, and I thank him for being here this morning. Immediately after that workshop, certainly taking stock of council's excellent suggestions and opinions and insight, we left this room and immediately decided that we were going to make an appointment to talk. And on Monday morning at 9 a.m., We were upstairs on the 8th floor to actually work through what we had heard and distill it down to in effect concepts. You see in front of you, you have a hard copy and the public has it on their screen. They are concepts for consideration today. I call them concepts, but they are actually decision points. And this can go as quickly or as long as you wish to have. I'm going to be very succinct today. I said everything I had to say relative to the law at last week's meeting. If there are any questions on the law, i'm happy to discuss them. But basically i'm going to go through these one by one. It's a very simple process. I'm going to introduce the concept which you see in front of you. I'm going to ask yourselves whether you agree or disagree. And then i'm going to ask the Chair to ask for a consensus of council. If there are at least four votes, not voting because you can't vote today. You won't vote today, but you can make your positions known, if you wish to, or just signify however the Chair wants to conduct the meeting, the workshop, if you have any comments or questions, certainly it's appropriate to be able to raise them today. It is a workshop. And after you come to a consensus, we move on to the next item and we do the same thing and we go through all seven of them. At the end of that i'll ask for a particular motion to direct me to come back with a new body of work that truly reflects all the great input, including the input from the members of the public. I just want to make that clear, that everything was taken into consideration here. Just for the purposes of this, is so you can see all of them, there they are. Now what we'll do is zoom in and we're going to start with number one. Agree or disagree. A concept for consideration. Amending your rules of procedure to further define public participation and rules of decorum to clarify consistency with the first amendment law on limited public forum and that all persons in attendance shall comport themselves with these rules. Agree or disagree. Mr. Chairman, what is the consensus of City Council?
Alan Clendenin
9:13:32AM Do you think it would be more appropriate for you to go through all of this and then open it to public comment and then go through the exercise with council?
Martin Shelby
9:13:39AM No.
Alan Clendenin
9:13:39AM No. Okay.
Martin Shelby
9:13:40AM Part of that, Sir, is because i've prepared this presentation and I wish that we do it orderly and that City Council not necessarily defer to the public. Let them talk about what the rules state for workshops and take the comments at the end of the presentation and questions and answers.
Alan Clendenin
9:14:01AM Thank you very much. Is there any discussion on proposed rule number one and is there any dissent? Hearing none.
Martin Shelby
9:14:07AM Is there a consensus, mr. Chairman?
Alan Clendenin
9:14:09AM There's no dissent, so I would assume that is consensus.
Martin Shelby
9:14:12AM Then I will check that off. I'll do it on my copy. Number two, to amend the rules of procedure to refine the order of business consistent with the purpose for which the government forum is intended. And the definition that I present to you is basically the definition of a Tampa City Council public meeting. And that is representative self-government with public participation. Agree or disagree. What is council's consensus?
Alan Clendenin
9:14:49AM Any dissent? Hearing none, we have consensus.
Martin Shelby
9:14:53AM Number three, limit time for commendations and/or presentations. A limit of three that must total 30 minutes. So, for instance, you could have three at ten minutes apiece, two for 15 minutes apiece, you could have one for 30 minutes. It's all how you schedule it. But you have to be strictly consistent with the rules that at the end of 30 minutes or, let's say, if there are two minutes remaining, the Chair I would recommend would ask people to wrap up. Now, here is the key for limiting the time for commendations and presentations. What happens is normally the chief, whether it is the Police Chief or the fire chief, they make their presentation. The Chair of the Public Safety Committee gives a commendation and the recipient then stands up and thanks the council or acknowledges the council or makes a statement. If any council member wants to make a comment, then they do. Now, at that point, the recommendation is to move the recognition of community partners immediately following to the second floor and have the presentations downstairs while City Council continues with the City Council meeting here in chambers. Agree or disagree, and what is the consensus?
Alan Clendenin
9:16:20AM Councilman Viera.
Luis Viera
9:16:21AM Thank you very much. I agree with everything in number three. We should have individual time limitations for individual commendations. But my objection is to the community recognition on the second floor. That means a lot to people who are being honored and recognized. That means a lot to people in the community who want to show their support for First Responders. It literally takes two minutes. If we have a rule stating that people who give the reminisce should speak no more than ten seconds, right, i'm totally fine with that, each person. When it comes to timing, I feel that we got 99 problems and this ain't one. That's all.
Martin Shelby
9:16:58AM I should also point out, council, that while I would like everything to be unanimous, in order to effectuate action of City Council under your charter, it takes a vote of four. So I would appreciate -- and if there is consensus, I'D like to know if there is enough consensus to be able to get official action when I produce the body of work that comes back.
Alan Clendenin
9:17:19AM Councilman Carlson.
Bill Carlson
9:17:20AM We talked about this briefly I think last week. I think that all does take a long time and there's long, long conversations, and it's very difficult to manage. I understand that it's a way to honor the folks who are being recognized and also the companies get a plug. But I think what we can do is ask the av people to record it on the second floor and add it to the end of the video or add it as a second video on youtube. That Way there is still recognition that the recipients can talk about and the companies will get recognition on video as well.
Alan Clendenin
9:17:58AM I will take that as an iou from the chair's office to coordinate with CCTV. Councilman Miranda.
Charlie Miranda
9:18:04AM If I may, there might Be Another Way of doing this. Usually the hearings of City Council are a little longer than the hearings that we have on community -- the CRAs. Why don't we shift that responsibility or CRA meetings. Usually much shorter than a City Council meeting, the CRA meetings. Nothing wrong with it. The public will still have the same crew we have now, but it could be quicker because there are less people in the audience and less participation between council members and the people that need to be had. I would just think about it out loud. Maybe we should have the presentation of those that are being recognized on CRA days instead of City Council days. I think that would save a lot of time.
Lynn Hurtak
9:18:53AM Unfortunately, we're not sitting as City Council then, so it wouldn't be a City Council commendation. It would be a CRA commendation. Maybe a workshop day but not CRA day.
Charlie Miranda
9:19:03AM Workshop day would be fine. Just an idea.
Alan Clendenin
9:19:08AM A reminder, it requires four. Obviously, I like the idea of the recognition. Again, we have to kind of reel some of this in with council. We need to ensure that the public business is taken care of first. I like Councilman Carlson's idea. I'll take that as an iou to coordinate with CCTV to see if they can set up a mixture that they are recorded, archived and broadcast for the appropriate recognition. Councilman Carlson, you wanted to add something?
Bill Carlson
9:19:40AM Add one thing, as we try to snip away buckets of time, the challenge is that our meetings, as our meetings get longer, there is pressure to add another day. And City Council signs up to do this all the time. But the cost of staff and the time of staff watching and participating for an additional day is great to the organization when on those days the staff really need to be out solving problems in the community. If it looks like we're being tough to cut little snippets of time, part of it is to make sure we don't create an extra burden on the public.
Alan Clendenin
9:20:23AM Councilman Viera.
Luis Viera
9:20:23AM Yes, sir. I wish to, if I may, would it be appropriate to make a motion to feel out council for a proposal?
Alan Clendenin
9:20:33AM Speak as you wish. This is your time to speak now or forever hold your peace.
Luis Viera
9:20:37AM I make a motion for number 3, that we keep everything and that when it comes to statements from council that only the Chairperson makes statements on these commendations, whether it is ATU, police, or fire, and keep everything, save for the recognition on the second floor. Again, I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze. That would be my motion just to feel council out.
Alan Clendenin
9:21:02AM We have a motion and a second. Discussion?
Lynn Hurtak
9:21:05AM That is a motion to take out the last sentence and keep the recognition.
Luis Viera
9:21:10AM Yes, ma'am.
Martin Shelby
9:21:12AM Question.
Alan Clendenin
9:21:13AM Let me speak to that real quick. A couple of things, Councilman Viera, we already had a rule about only the chair speaks, but we routinely violate that.
Luis Viera
9:21:22AM Enforce it, I guess.
Alan Clendenin
9:21:24AM Because it is a courtesy. It's difficult to tell people no when they are passionate about a certain item.
Luis Viera
9:21:31AM I know.
Alan Clendenin
9:21:34AM Councilman Carlson.
Martin Shelby
9:21:38AM I have a question. Please, recognize --
Alan Clendenin
9:21:40AM I'll recognize you after they speak.
Bill Carlson
9:21:41AM I'm going to vote no on that because I think the community stuff could be moved -- it could be longer down stairs on a longer video, there could be more recognition. But if anything, we should allow City Council to say something about the folks being honored. We have this rule where only the chair speaks. I'm not sure if the recipients and the public know about the rule. It might be worth repeating because we have in the past had members of the public criticize certain City Council members for not saying anything, to recognize first responders. We all want to say something every time. It would be a great signal for us to thank them. We do have our names on the commendation, but i'm okay keeping that rule of one person speaking as long as everybody knows that's what the rule is, I still wish we could move the community stuff to the second floor.
Alan Clendenin
9:22:29AM Councilman Maniscalco.
Guido Maniscalco
9:22:30AM I'll go back to the last few meetings where we did have police and fire and then maybe a third presentation. I want to time it and see. If somebody comes up after the commendation and does like a ten minute presentation, and then we get into a back and forth, that's what really takes the biggest chunk of our time. But I think we can stay within that ten minute police, ten minute fire. I'm going to go back and time it and see. We'll take it from there.
Alan Clendenin
9:22:58AM Councilwoman Hurtak.
Lynn Hurtak
9:22:59AM I actually did. Last time, last week when we had Police and Fire and a presentation, we didn't even get started with public comment until 10:20. It was really long. And, generally speaking, it's not necessarily the chair that gets to speak but generally like one person. And I think we've been pretty good about that, like, overall. Occasionally there's two of us, but I think we've gotten much better. Used to every single person had to say something and now it's much, much better. I'm not going to support this. Again, I think the whole point is to tighten things up.
Luis Viera
9:23:34AM May I make an amendment? Councilman Carlson's position is well taken with regard to Council Member speaking. Limit each Council Member's comments to 30 seconds. I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze. If somebody votes against this doesn't mean they oppose Police and Fire. Just to put that out there, everybody here supports them. I think the juice isn't worth the squeeze. This isn't the place to go to find more time.
Alan Clendenin
9:24:02AM I'm going to vote against it as well because what we're doing is not working. We need to pivot. As we move on forward with this, these are not written on a tablet in perpetuity. If we find that we're being expedient in the meetings and in the public interest to go back and do something, we can always go back. We need to try something new. I'm going to vote against this. Councilman Miranda and then Mr. Shelby.
Charlie Miranda
9:24:36AM Although it saves a second here, two seconds there, 10 seconds, 20 seconds, a minute, we have to put two mikes in that stand so people face it and it moves the flow of it quicker. Talking to each other and rightly so because They don't understand there's no mike. So They want to make a presentation and the public doesn't see it because it's sideways. They are looking at an angle. If They have two mikes there, They can come up and speak. I think it will save a lot of time doing that even though it seems -- at times, I think asset going forward. I think it would be better, make the presentation. Public can see a head-on shot, not the side view and can hardly hear what They are saying. I think that is an asset we need to do. Not that They are doing anything incorrectly. We have so much advanced technology that it's not advancing well.
Alan Clendenin
9:25:27AM Councilwoman Young.
Naya Young
9:25:28AM Can we clarify with the amendments, what exactly are we -- what is the motion?
Luis Viera
9:25:41AM Yes, ma'am. So my motion is to adopt number 3, save for the recognition to the second floor, my position is that probably saves us three minutes, and if we're going to go looking for time in our city meetings, I don't think this Is The Place to go, in my opinion. I would also amend it to specifically allow each Council Member 30 seconds to speak on these commendations to the extent they wish.
Martin Shelby
9:26:14AM Question on the motion, for council, not necessarily for the maker of the motion. What happens when you come up against the ten minutes? Because here's my concern. Next to a motion to continue, and i'm being half tongue-in-cheek when I say this so I say it respectfully, council second most popular motion is to waive your rules. What I want to tell you from a legal standpoint, specifically that we are working to ensure this is a limited public forum, and we are amending the rules to be consistent with that and clarify that, every time you waive the rules, you can conceivably wave good-bye to the protection those rules provide you. And you have to be both viewpoint neutral and reasonable with your restrictions That You Place because of the purpose of this meeting. So what that means is you have to treat everybody the same. You can't pick favorites and you can't move to waive the rules because, for instance, waiving your rules can have an unintended legal consequence that you can't correct. My suggestion is to everyone, please, when somebody immediately moves to waive the rules, give thought before you second it, there may be implications.
Lynn Hurtak
9:27:44AM I do intend, if this passes, to make a motion regarding that.
Alan Clendenin
9:27:50AM Again, i'm going to vote against this because I feel like we have to pivot and we need to try something different because what we're doing is not working. We all love Police and Fire. We all know we love Police and Fire. I will work with Cttv to ensure that we have this broadcast for the public so that there's no loss of recognition there for both the recipient and the folks providing the awards to the recipients of these achievements. Councilman Carlson, do you have anything new to add?
Bill Carlson
9:28:27AM We're not talking about taking anything away from recognition of the officers. What we're talking about are the Businesses, let's say somebody who comes up has a pizza business and they want to give a hundred dollar voucher for free pizzas and don't forget we have a new pepperoni and special stuffed crust that really has nothing to do with honoring the police officers. They could easily say here is a coupon. But what we're suggesting is not getting rid of that. Move it to the second floor, record it, add it on to the end of the meeting so there is still a video. Businesses can support it. We want to support Businesses but talking about your latest pizza recipe is not something that we should take time for in the beginning of a meeting.
Luis Viera
9:29:12AM If I may, Mr. Chair, we should vote on it. If it passes, we go forward. If it fails, we'll do a reverse --
Alan Clendenin
9:29:21AM We won't vote. I'll get a consent of council.
Naya Young
9:29:28AM We would still have the chief would speak, all the presentations, all of that will still happen here.
Alan Clendenin
9:29:41AM The line of gifts would move downstairs to the second floor. Mr. Shelby.
Martin Shelby
9:29:47AM It's up to how you want to conduct this meeting. But if a Member of Council does make a motion and require a second, it's only a direction to staff. It is not the final action. If that's --
Alan Clendenin
9:30:00AM Do you guys want to vote or work on the consensus? Vote. Okay. All those in favor of Councilman Viera's motion, say aye. Opposed? The nays have it. The motion fails.
Martin Shelby
9:30:18AM Mr. Chairman, the consensus of council is to --
Alan Clendenin
9:30:21AM Hold on. I think we have an alternate. Councilwoman Hurtak.
Lynn Hurtak
9:30:25AM I think we move forward with this as-is, and just see how it goes.
Alan Clendenin
9:30:33AM Again, I will take it upon the chair -- sam, if you are listening to this, please make a note that we coordinate with CCTV.
Lynn Hurtak
9:30:41AM In addition to this, because we're putting only 30 minutes, I believe we need to put a timer at 10 and when it is done, when 10 minutes hits, you've got to be like, thanks, we've got to move on. Let people know, let the chief's office know, Chief of Police and fire chief know that at ten minutes, we're going to cut you off and we're going to move on because these are our rules.
Alan Clendenin
9:31:04AM What i'm hearing is an amendment, a new proposal to add to this that the timer be set for each presentation at ten minutes.
Luis Viera
9:31:12AM I'll second.
Alan Clendenin
9:31:13AM Motion from Councilwoman Hurtak. I have a second from Councilman Viera. Is there any discussion? Hearing none -- Mr. Shelby.
Martin Shelby
9:31:21AM Mr. Chairman, I want to give council flexibility. And the reason is that 30 minutes is the key. Again, when you set your agenda, for instance, let's talk practicality. There was one item in the presentations last week that went on longer than ten minutes, but it was certainly a worthy public policy discussion that council wanted to have. So if you know that something is going to run 20 minutes, then two slots that day. One at 10 and one at 20. But the point is this, that, by the way, if there's something that you want to have that is going to run over, you can still move that into your staff reports if you wish.
Alan Clendenin
9:32:06AM That was going to be my comment about longer presentations --
Lynn Hurtak
9:32:10AM I will amend to say that the Chair's office determine how that 30 minutes is decided during your review for the meeting --
Martin Shelby
9:32:23AM It's too late by then. It is at the time of the making of the motion.
Lynn Hurtak
9:32:27AM Okay. That's our responsibility then. Never mind.
Alan Clendenin
9:32:32AM You want to revoke your motion?
Lynn Hurtak
9:32:35AM Revoke my motion.
Alan Clendenin
9:32:40AM There is no motion on the floor. We're going to move forward. We've accepted number 3.
Martin Shelby
9:32:45AM Number 4, a new category called agenda public comment. What is agenda public comment? It is only for items on the agenda -- excuse me, only for numbered items on the agenda. I'm going to amend that. Except items that are set for public hearing. Two other things to be considered with agenda public comment, as it's proposed on items, people speaking on items that are set on the agenda, there is no set time limit for the number of people who show up. You give everybody who has an opportunity to talk about something you're about to vote on the opportunity to speak to it. That is something you guarantee now in your rules. And that's consistent with the purpose for which the forum is intended. Now, no time limit, three minutes per speaker as you have it. That is a new category, and I will show you later on where it fits in the agenda. Again, agree or disagree, Mr. Chairman, what is council's consensus?
Alan Clendenin
9:33:57AM Just to remind folks, as far as I know, would be the only public meeting that doesn't have a time limit on --
Martin Shelby
9:34:06AM If council wishes to set a time limit --
Alan Clendenin
9:34:09AM For the public considering this, we would be still the only group that does not limit their time. Is there any discussion on this? Any disagreement on this? Hearing none, we have consensus.
Martin Shelby
9:34:21AM Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Now we move to another new category, what we used to refer to as general public comment is gone. It's now what you're going to have is a period called off agenda public comment. What is the off agenda public comment? It is limited to city-related matters pertinent to the city. It has a time limit of 30 minutes total with two minutes per speaker as proposed. Agree or disagree. What is council's consensus?
Alan Clendenin
9:34:54AM Any discussion? Councilwoman Hurtak.
Lynn Hurtak
9:34:57AM I'm willing to give it a try. I think this is one of those things where it's not -- we can change our rules, but I think -- sort of like the commendation thing, I think we should give it a try for a while and see what happens.
Bill Carlson
9:35:20AM We already separate on agenda from off agenda. The new parts are 30 minute limit and two minutes per speaker. I don't think that in any week there are more than ten speakers off agenda. The 30 minute limit is probably okay, but I object to the two minutes per speaker. If that's included, i'll vote no.
Alan Clendenin
9:35:44AM Any other discussion?
Martin Shelby
9:35:46AM Just a comment on what Councilwoman Hurtak said, and it's already been referred to. These are your rules. You can change them. What I recommend you don't do is you don't on the fly waive them. Just get into the habit, if there is a problem, we'll take note of it, make note of it and amend your rules rather than just waive your rules.
Alan Clendenin
9:36:09AM All those in favor of accepting item number 4 say aye. Opposed?
Bill Carlson
9:36:16AM Nay.
Martin Shelby
9:36:17AM Item number 4 is agenda public comment.
Alan Clendenin
9:36:21AM I'm sorry. I misstated. All those in favor of accepting 5, aye. Opposed?
Bill Carlson
9:36:27AM Nay.
Alan Clendenin
9:36:30AM Clerk, would you call that vote? [Indiscernible] the motion passes with Carlson objecting. Number 6.
Martin Shelby
9:36:49AM I'm going to go back to number 1 because that really sets the stage for number 6. When I say further define public participation and rules of decorum, it also means -- actually, i'm All The Way down here. I want to go back to number 1. That's okay. Because the whole purpose of everything we're doing is really contained within number 1 really at this point in time. That's why we came forward with these recommendations initially. Part of what we do, i've given to you on the last page of the packet that I handed out to you that's on the dais, it is actually the underline and strike-through version of rule number 5. If you take a look at it -- i'll put it on the overhead so the public can see it -- again, this has been available in onbase since the June 4 agenda, and what you have is you have a whole series of underlines and strike-throughs. And one of the things that came out of my discussions, and I want to thank each other of City Council. It was only three days that we had, but I had the opportunity to speak with all seven of you individually. Between that, working with Mr. Steady, and digesting all that came out of last week's meeting, i've determined that we need to really further refine it to have definitions that are more clear for everybody because City Council rightly asked last week, well, how do we define what city related is? Anything could be city related. Here is a working definition for you to apply that i'm going to suggest that gets incorporated into the rules. It may change slightly. If you want to know what city related means, if the public wants to know what city related means, it means matters that are pertinent to the city. You're saying, why did I write down in quotes matters pertinent to the city? You know why, because the Mcdonaugh case, the city of homestead, that's the language they had in their rules that the 11th Circuit U.s. Court of Appeals accepted as being reasonable to be able to restrict their meetings. So they can restrict their meetings in homestead now by case law and agree and abide by the first amendment law and still be able to do it because it's a limited public forum because it's a matter that is pertinent to the city. Here is the working definition. Speech tied to the City Of Tampa government business, operations, policies, services, or local matters under City Council's authority. That is a very broad discussion, and you think of what you heard at this podium where i'm standing, what that would apply to. Likewise, you can think of what you heard at the podium that it doesn't apply to. What that doesn't apply to is out of order under your rules. Now that you know what city-related matters that are pertinent to the city means, in terms of that definition, do you agree or disagree with moving forward with a similar or that definition and what is the consensus of council, Mr. Chairman?
Alan Clendenin
9:40:13AM Is there any dissent on this one? Hearing none, we accept this.
Martin Shelby
9:40:17AM Thank you. Finally, this came out of public comment.
Bill Carlson
9:40:30AM Mr. Shelby, how will the chair know what the definition is? We have only one more chair on this council. Will he look at you and get your interpretation of whether it is included or not?
Martin Shelby
9:40:45AM The short answer is, your rules as they have already been previously proposed say the following, and it's added language. I'D like you to see what our Committee of Hardworking Lawyers came up with. I don't know who takes specific credit for it, but it's going to be number g.
Bill Carlson
9:41:15AM But my question is more about the definition.
Martin Shelby
9:41:19AM Let's assume that is the definition.
Bill Carlson
9:41:20AM No, but let's say someone comes in and says, I just want to say that I don't like it that the united kingdom just elected a new Prime Minister and I think the Former Prime Minister is a great Prime Minister and they shouldn't have done that. It has nothing to do with city business in theory. So the Chair could rule out of order. Let's say somebody comes in and says, I don't like it that the legislature is considering a new tree policy, and that tree policy might affect the City Of Tampa. In theory, that's only a legislative issue and tallahassee city has nothing to do with it. In that case, would the Chair shut the person done or is it remotely related to the city?
Martin Shelby
9:42:02AM It's not remotely, it is directly. Because if the city is preempted by the state, then it affects city public policy, code of ordinances. We could come up -- I appreciate that.
Bill Carlson
9:42:12AM Let's say something in the legislature that is not directly related, in the case -- the first case I mentioned, it's easy to say it's separate. Most policies at the federal and state level touch the city in Some Way, but let's say somebody comes in and says they don't like Donald Trump or they don't like Nancy Pelosi, doesn't have anything directly to do but somebody could say it does because their policies affect us.
Martin Shelby
9:42:40AM That's remote and speculative as they would say in the law.
Bill Carlson
9:42:45AM Does the Chair have to make that decision on what counts or can the Chair turn to you for an interpretation?
Martin Shelby
9:42:50AM I don't know how -- well, first of all, I just want to share with you that my opinion is advisory. The power and the discretion sits, under these rules and under the law, with the Chair. Now, if you disagree with the Chair, you certainly have a right to raise a point of order and maybe make a motion to overrule the Chair, but that's done through process. But ultimately and certainly I will assure you, I give you my word, and i'm speaking for Mr. Steady here, too. Both he and I will work very closely with whoever is the Chair to make sure this council complies with what the law is.
Alan Clendenin
9:43:31AM Councilman Viera.
Luis Viera
9:43:32AM Thank you very much. It's funny, i'm laughing because there's always, you know, interest in being chair. I think after all of this no one is going to want to be chair, you know what I mean? But I would imagine, mr. Chair and Mr. Shelby, that if an issue came up where a Chairman or chairwoman had to make a decision on somebody who was speaking on a certain matter and they weren't on topic, that it would be well within right, Mr. Shelby, to ask you as our counsel, do you believe that my interpretation of our rules is consistent with those rules? And furthermore, I am acting in the course and scope of my role as Chairman and acting within my due discretion. In other words, i'm getting to, is the chairperson leaving their role as the Chairman or chairwoman or a City Council woman because the big issue is obviously personal exposure. That's what you are here for to make sure that we're not going outside of that. That we're within our due discretion. That's the issue. If you can give the Chairman that opinion, then that's great.
Martin Shelby
9:44:33AM What i'm hearing you say and I agree with what you are suggesting and I thank you for that. What you're saying is my opinion in another sense also protects the chair as well. If i'm asked that question, yes, I will have to entertain it. It's my obligation to you as City Council attorney, just as any attorney standing up here, if you ask their opinion, they will advise you accordingly. That being said, we passed number 6. We moved on from number 6. Now we're left with number 7.
Alan Clendenin
9:45:14AM Hold on one second. Councilwoman Hurtak.
Lynn Hurtak
9:45:24AM City related matters pertinent to city. Very sorry. Have to go back to number 5. I do have to object to the two minutes. I want to put my opinion back to the three minutes. I really believe people who come to us with city-related concerns, generally, it's something we don't know about. My favorite example is the dog park. Where the Gentleman came and said, hey, when you do stuff at curtis hixon now, you're fencing off the dog park. He was able to explain that. Kelly was able to come out, get his information. We were able to solve it that day. For me, I just really have to go back to the three minutes. You all don't have to agree, I just want to register my disagreement.
Scott Steady
9:46:11AM Councilwoman Hurtak, I appreciate what you're saying, just another perspective. When we were talking about this, definitely understood that you wanted to hear from residents about problems that may come up with the city. We're thinking, in two minutes, someone should be able to articulate the concern that you're not going to be able to resolve that then leads to them hopefully having access to get the real answer. I just want to tell you why we came up with two minutes because we thought people can articulate their concerns that you all wanted to hear. But I understand your position.
Lynn Hurtak
9:46:48AM I appreciate it. Again, I didn't want to reopen it. I wanted to say when sitting here and thinking, I just had to change my particular stance on it.
Martin Shelby
9:46:59AM If I may be heard on this because i've given it thought, too, with regard to the two minutes. There is nothing in this proposal that bars somebody from speaking for three minutes on on-agenda items and having an additional opportunity to come back for additional two minutes to speak on off-agenda items. This is an improvement, I would suggest, over what presently exists. Somebody who comes in who has both on-agenda and off-agenda, they are not given three minutes, five minutes. Three for on agenda and two for off agenda.
Bill Carlson
9:47:38AM I think the public has an expectation they'll get three minutes. This makes it further confusing and not worth the fight over a little bit of time. There are very significant things we discovered in public comment. The biggest one I mentioned is that we found out in public comment that the Mayor had decided not to put $126 Million Hanna Avenue project out for bid, which probably cost us 10 or $20 million. Also, the Mayor has a propaganda machine in the Communication Department with 20 something people and a political person who are out there campaigning and lobbying for projects like toilet to tap and Howard Avenue project. The community has very little ability to respond and certainly not the resources and money to respond to that. And those projects may not be on the agenda every week, but the public should have a right to speak on it and then broadcast so the public can be educated on it. I think the public has a right to fight back against bad projects like those two in particular.
Alan Clendenin
9:48:38AM I don't believe there are enough folks that disagree. I still believe we have a consensus of four on the council. So I think we'll move on and continue with the discussion.
Martin Shelby
9:48:47AM Finally, council, I bring you to the last concept, and this is a result of what we heard from e-mails, what we heard from members of the public, and what we've heard from City Council. And the suggestion for this concept is to post the public parks rules for regular meetings and workshops of the Tampa City Council on the City Council web page in the agenda, on the placard outside the chambers, et cetera. Open to suggestion and ways to be able to adequately communicate that. Agree or disagree. What is the consensus?
Alan Clendenin
9:49:25AM I think it's brilliant. Really, it's past due. I think it will be a Great Way to communicate with folks, alleviate confusion, have it out there. I love it.
Martin Shelby
9:49:37AM And, Mr. Chairman, there is also a time saver associated with that. That's me reading the rules. I won't need to do that.
Alan Clendenin
9:49:46AM We probably should have paper copies of the rules outside, too.
Martin Shelby
9:49:50AM They will be in every agenda.
Alan Clendenin
9:49:52AM Very good.
Martin Shelby
9:49:54AM Do I have consensus?
Alan Clendenin
9:49:56AM Any objection to that? Just so we're clear -- what's that?
Martin Shelby
9:50:04AM Mr. Chairman, one other thing.
Alan Clendenin
9:50:06AM Hold on. Councilwoman Hurtak.
Lynn Hurtak
9:50:08AM When I was talking to Mr. Shelby yesterday, I asked him to create a draft of what the new order of business would look like just so we have a feel for what the time line would be. I wanted him to go through that.
Alan Clendenin
9:50:24AM Would you go through the order of business?
Martin Shelby
9:50:26AM It's on the overhead, on the monitors and the public should have access to it. I highlighted some of the significant changes. Actually, when you look at it, you'll know exactly where what falls. There is a distinction between the agenda public comment and the off agenda comment, and it's not just simply, okay, we're done with the on-agenda items, now we'll take the off-agenda. There's something very significant that happens between the on-agenda items and the off-agenda items. That's your public business. That's your consent docket. It doesn't take very long, and we can have a discussion about second readings when the time comes to be able to speed those up. What happens now is taking into account what council has approved, if you look at d, commendations and presentations, it says 30-minute total, limit of 3, community recognition on the second floor. When you get down then after you take agenda public comment only for items on the agenda, except items set for a public hearing, then what happens is you've complied with Florida law that requires you to take public comment before taking official action. Final official action. So after that, you could move very quickly to your board administration appointments, which don't come up at every meeting and actually kind of rare. Reconsideration -- I left off an n there -- request by the public for reconsideration of legislative matters, which usually is just reciting the question. Committee reports, consent agenda, you know how quickly that moves, same with items being set for public hearings by council consent. The goal is you get to the public hearings for second reading at 10 a.m. And then you can get through the 10:30 public hearings, and then at that point in time after you have taken care of public business, it is still before lunch and relatively early, you take the off-agenda public comments limited to city-related matters for a 30-minute total. Let me explain to you practically how that works. If what you're doing runs long and you don't get through everything, you stop what you're doing at 11:30 and take public comment for the next 30 minutes, because the next thing we added was lunch recess at noon. The public is on notice that you are taking lunch at noon, and you will give everybody supposedly 30 minutes at three minutes apiece is only 10 people. And after ten people -- you are doing the two minutes -- okay. Thank you. You're doing 15 people. And then what happens when that is done, you can go back to regular business, if nobody shows up or a few people, or if you have done everything, then you can even start asking the administration to come in and begin your staff reports because that will keep you -- that will actually make you, allow you to leave here earlier at the end of the day. Now, if for whatever reason you're able to move your public business so quickly, it's conceivable that shortly after 10:30 you could begin off-agenda public comment. You still limit it to 30 minutes and then you'll have time after that up to your lunch recess to take more of public business, staff reports, policy discussions, however you wish. The only other thing that I asked to be changed, and it was never actually placed into your rules. It was just a motion of council because I hadn't revised the rules to make it. This is really a custom by motion of council, it causes confusion, and it causes confusion with the public that in the afternoon you open the floor for public comment on first reading consideration of legislative matters. I'm going to recommend that you don't do that anymore and give people only the opportunity to do that on on-agenda public comment because they will come back shortly thereafter at the noticed and advertised public hearing to do that. I say this with regard to everything. People can still contact you by mail, by e-mail, by telephone, and my suggestion is that will speed things up and nobody has to stay until the afternoon to say something.
Alan Clendenin
9:54:39AM Again, this is compliance with Florida law.
Martin Shelby
9:54:41AM You know why? You don't want to open up public comment for just the one person that always shows up in the afternoon and wants to speak.
Alan Clendenin
9:54:48AM Again, we are back in compliance with Florida law.
Bill Carlson
9:54:52AM Based on the discussion we had in the briefing, I thought you were going to make this one of the options. I just object to moving it. I don't know if we'll vote on this part of it. I'm okay separating it but not moving it.
Martin Shelby
9:55:10AM Moving which?
Bill Carlson
9:55:11AM The non-agenda public comment.
Martin Shelby
9:55:16AM Are you then objecting -- and this is a valid discussion -- are you objecting to the placement of where the off-agenda public Comment Takes Place?
Bill Carlson
9:55:27AM That's right. I thought that would be one of the options we get feedback on. I would move letter I up to be letter f instead.
Martin Shelby
9:55:39AM You would move it -- would you do it -- would you move it then to after the consent docket but before the public hearings on second reading?
Bill Carlson
9:55:47AM I would move it to just after public comment.
Martin Shelby
9:55:52AM I would recommend against that. I have my reasons.
Guido Maniscalco
9:55:56AM I'm happy with this. My biggest concern was putting the off-agenda public comment at the end of the meeting. And my concern was, it's not right for people to have to pay for SIX, seven, eight hours of parking just to speak. I think this is reasonable because in my experience, the biggest question that would come up when we had those long presentations or long public comment, folks would ask, are you going to get to the consent agenda before lunch? Because a lot of people sit and wait. We move very, very quickly but they are sitting and waiting for contracts and other city official related work stuff. I'm happy with it because it does move quickly. We could get to the off agenda public comment at 10:30. Like we started -- you know, every meeting is different, but to have people wait all day I think is unfair and wrong. And I think this is fair enough where it's very clear. It's clear that lunch recess at noon. Like you mentioned, if it is 11:30, we get to that. We go to the off -- so no later than noon will the people be able to speak and go instead of paying for all the parking. I'm fine with this.
Naya Young
9:57:04AM I would agree. That was my biggest concern, too, if we just say end of the day. Well, what time is end of the day? Having it a time certain so people know this is the time you come if speaking about off-agenda public comment.
Alan Clendenin
9:57:23AM It's time to reach consensus. Is there anybody opposed to accepting the amendments for the rules of procedure in total, including the run of show?
Bill Carlson
9:57:35AM I just object to moving the timing of it, of the second public --
Alan Clendenin
9:57:40AM Councilman Viera.
Luis Viera
9:57:41AM I had to step outside for a city issue really fast. We're looking at moving off agenda public comment to a time certain. What time is that?
Alan Clendenin
9:57:49AM 10:30. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
Lynn Hurtak
9:57:54AM It's not time certain, but we can't go past 11:30. We have to do it before we leave for lunch.
Luis Viera
9:58:01AM I'm good with that. Thank you.
Alan Clendenin
9:58:05AM I hear Carlson opposed because of the off agenda public comment. Everybody else is in agreement. It appears we have consensus. Is there any further discussion? Are we ready to move to accept the amended rules? Is there consensus to accept all the amended rules including run of show?
Martin Shelby
9:58:25AM Mr. Chairman, I did prepare my requested direction, that you motion me to return on July 30th under staff reports with a resolution consistent with the consensus found today by City Council on amendments to the rules of procedure.
Lynn Hurtak
9:58:40AM I recognize the chair.
Alan Clendenin
9:58:42AM I motion to direct the City Council attorney to return on July 30 under staff reports with a resolution consistent with the consensus of City Council on amendments to the rules of the procedure.
Lynn Hurtak
9:58:52AM However, I really believe we need to hear from the general public before we make the motion.
Martin Shelby
9:58:57AM That is true.
Alan Clendenin
9:58:59AM The motion is still valid.
Lynn Hurtak
9:59:01AM Do we have a second? No.
Alan Clendenin
9:59:06AM Councilwoman Young seconded. Now we're ready to take public comment. If you wish to speak to this item, please line up on the wall.
Luis Viera
9:59:27AM I'm taking care of a city issue, I may need to step outside during public comment. I apologize if I step out.
Alan Clendenin
9:59:36AM Sir, start with your name. You have three minutes. Uhuru. Uhuru means freedom in swahili. We as african people should always be thinking about our freedom. Nothing more, nothing less. We should always be thinking about our freedom and we should always know and understand and -- when we see White scoundrels trying to eliminate our freedom. 43 people in this room. 43 people in this room and one dog. The dog probably got more sense than everybody in here. The fact of the matter is, it's 43 people in this room, and it's only about four White people in here. It's only about four White people in here. Look around you. And what these people are discussing right in our face is how to take our rights away. Ain't no -- come down here and discuss nothing like this. That's why you want to change this. Old man here want to know why change and change it before. They took it completely off. I say take it off. Ban it, no public comment. None whatsoever. That's the way to go. It's racist. It's insensitive, and you all sitting there discussing it and you all bounce back in the hood like you are so friendly with Black people. Fact of the matter, people can't come down here and talk about police commendations, we can't come down here and talk about police violence, as they are killing us in our community, as they are beating us in our community. As they smell smoke in our community, inside our cars. We can't come down here and talk about it. The fact of the matter, you don't see no White people in here. Ain't no White people in here because they don't have to come down here. They know it is a do-nothing, no-good, stinkin', nasty, lowdown, scoundrel-like City Council. And they are going to try to circumvent your ability to articulate. That's what they are going to do. They are going to frustrate you. They don't want you talking about reparations. White folks owe us $3 million per person, man, woman, child. Naturally owe us that. And reparations is only one one thousandth percent of reconciliation. Don't think when you hear the word reparations Black folks begging for money. That's only one one thousandth percent of reconciliation. The fact of the matter is, there are many things that's going on. We know how government work. They did 65 days, 70 day filibuster under civil rights bill. They don't want Black people to be heard or recognized. You all need to take up -- you all some nasty crackers. Nothing more, nothing less. Take it off, damn it. Bitches.
10:02:55AM Good morning. That wasn't so bad. My name is Pam Cannella. If limited public forum means placing public comment, city business, at the end of City Council agenda, I will have to oppose. And declare this to be unreasonable and in violation of my first amendment right. As well as the right of everyone else who comes to express their city business concerns. Also in violation of the americans with disability act. The public has already expressed all the hardship and difficulties of coming here and being here. I do not support public disruptive behavior. That is not city business. But at the same time, governing bodies must not violate the rights of citizens who wish to comment on city business not on the agenda. City Council needs to enforce these rules for the public behavior with respect, equality, and full knowledge of the law that govern these rules. No one is above the law, not our mayor, city attorneys, City Council, staff, employees, applicants, special guests. These rules are not just for the public. Allow public comment agenda items first, followed by public comment city business, allowing for reasonable time to speak. I'm okay with that. This administration has not been transparent with the public about most city business. We cannot be denied our right to public comment to express neighborhood concerns that are not on the agenda, such as administration spending of our taxes. Inadequate public engagement, or lack of public notice on major projects or development. Or the neglect of our infrastructure and stormwater cleaning and maintenance. These are just a few of the public concerns that are not on the agenda, unless the public has the opportunity to address our elected officials. The United States Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit Court acts as the ultimate legal Authority For Court appeals to determine whether the proceedings were fair and the law was applied correctly. So, know the law, enforce correctly, and be fair and be glad we have these laws. Our constitution and amendments are to protect the welfare of the people. Thank you.
10:05:45AM Pam, because this is a workshop -- for the few people speaking after this, the rules as amended, as you heard the compromise of council, is the off-agenda items will still be heard before lunch and not going to the end of the meeting. If we adopt the rules, they are not going to the end of the meeting. That comes in, and he likes to speak, and there are going to be others. He's brave enough to come in. And we should give him the right to speak at the appropriate time. He can't be here all day.
10:06:19AM It will be guaranteed before lunch. Off-agenda items before lunch. I will be here to make sure you honor that guarantee.
10:06:29AM That's part of the run of the show. If adopted as agreed it will be before lunch. Mr. Shelby.
Martin Shelby
10:06:35AM Following up to what I said before, it would be inappropriate for you to make a simple motion to waive your rules. There are people who have expectations and they have made that clear.
Alan Clendenin
10:06:46AM So that will be the expectation. The off-agenda items will be heard before lunch. My problem is, i've been here and had to sit through lunch and almost through dinner to be heard. And I can't do that.
10:06:57AM We're hoping to fix that. I think you will be happy with this compromise. Next speaker. Thank you, Pam. Start with your name, please. Michael Womack, Tampa, Florida. I'm speaking today in support of the proposed amendments, and I also want to express my deep concern by the hateful and homophobic attacks directed at our mayor and our City Council chair namely in the last meeting. No public official should be subjected to this kind of harassment simply because of who they are. I hope that everyone on the dais agrees with me with that. These proposed amendments do not silence anyone or restrict legitimate criticism of their government. They preserve public comment and first amendment rights while recognizing an important reality. City Council meetings should be for conducting city business. Residents will still have the opportunity to speak, question, challenge, and hold their government accountable. What these changes do is establish reasonable viewpoint neutral rules that keep meetings focused on city business, protect all participants from disruptive conduct, and ensure everyone has a fair opportunity to be heard. So I urge you to support these changes and help ensure our public meetings remain open, respectful and effective for everyone. Thank you.
10:08:21AM Thank you. Next speaker, please. Good morning, ct. Start with your name, please. I Am Ct Harris. Good morning, council. Again, my Name Is Ct Harris. And I am someone who believes the city is capable of something greater than what we've seen and the displays we've seen to get click bait. I stand here for the people who cannot be here, for the working families who burn nearly five dollars of gas to get to the chamber when they do want to speak, for our seniors who have concerns and need to share their stories and now maybe asked to wait hours even though I do know that it has been stated that you will have public comment off-agenda items before lunch, I do still think about those individuals who are unable to stay until lunch. And now know they may be asked to wait hours up until lunch if they get here at 9. You can decisions for the public sometimes forgetting the very struggles that people already have coming to council. I'm also here for the civic voices in our community who show up faithfully not to disrupt but to engage, who share history articles or just want to be able to have an open dialogue with council about something that could be concerning them. So moving the off-agenda general public comments, even after lunch does not protect this council. I still feel it abundance the very people that you elected and we can agree to disagree and that's fair. That's why it's america. You will are have rules of decorum. I feel we need to enforce those a little bit more because I do not think that disrespect, homophobic slurs and things of that nature are appropriate. As someone said last week about being a Katy Perry lesbian, i'm proud to be. I'm proud. I want you all to know I did not like those remarks. Did not like the comments he said about the mayor. I don't like what was said about our City Council chair in that regard. However, I do believe that we have to ensure that, you know, we are fair because the gentleman was not ruled out of order. He was not removed, and yet we are restructuring public participation and thinking about this for tampanians all over, and I don't think that we should shift so much of what we do for the behavior of a few bad actors, if you will. I also think that governance is not -- it comes off as avoidance. For the record, again, I do not condone disrespect, but Florida statute 286.0114 Guarantees citizens a reasonable opportunity to be heard. Pushing off-agenda item comments even after lunch or after presentations I feel is a quiet erosion of that, but I do feel that the people who need to speak most often are the ones who can afford to wait the least, and we shouldn't be stifled because of one man's off-agenda items. I just think we as the City Of Tampa can do much better. But I do think we need some decorum. I think some changes need to be made. I'm confident in your ability to do that.
10:11:33AM Thank you, ct. Next speaker, please. Start with your name and you have three minutes. My name is ant avila. I serve as equality Florida's community organizer here in Tampa Bay. In that role, I have the honor of leading hundreds of volunteer advocates inside local chambers like this one and in the halls of the capitol each year. These advocates bravely stand for lgbtq rights resisting hate, bigotry and showing the country that floridians will not stand for the attempts to erase queer and transpeople from public life. President Trump and Governor Desantis have handed a megaphone to the most unhinged attention-seeking elements of their base. Hate may scream, but it doesn't speak for Florida. The people of Tampa deserve so much better than the hateful anti-lgbtq rhetoric directed at their elected leaders in previous weeks. Harassment, dehumanization and bigotry are a poison in our politics, and the hate that is escalating at local government meetings across the state is unacceptable. Bullies hope that they can intimidate public servants, silence lgbt voices and divide and conquer communities. They will fail. Lgbtq are a part of the fabric of Florida and we stand with Tampa mayor Jane Castor and City Council chair Alan Clendenin and the proud public servants who refuse to let hate hinder their commitment for communities that are open and welcoming to all. Thank you.
10:13:18AM Thank you very much. Next speaker. Start with your name, michelle. And you have three minutes. My name is Michelle Mastrototaro. I just wanted to give a little insight on how I felt Thursday. As a mother of a gay son, I worry. The hate is horrible, and I feel it's getting out of control. I mean, the difference between him versus prime-time, one was threatening and it was out of line. It's actually considered a hate crime what he did. The other one was hired by bubba, whatever, a podcast person, and he did his thing. He goes around doing this all over. I'm not agreeing. He should have been, you know, he should have got the gavel, too, because he was just nonsense. All around, I thank you for at least making it before lunch because that would be hard for a lot of people. And I think that moving forward that one person should not make it unfair for everybody, and I know your good and diligence will definitely make it a better space and fair for everybody. Thank you.
10:14:52AM Thank you, michelle. Appreciate it. Next speaker, please. Start with your name and you have three minutes. Good morning. I am Jade Scott. And I, like quite literally everybody else, am here to talk about agenda item 1 with the rule changes and how that relates to the detestable actions that happened last Thursday, the one meeting I didn't come to. But as a result of those, I obviously -- bigotry is indefensible and it should not have happened. I think that instead of changing the rules to sort of constrict the discussion, since that does happen so rarely, it would make more sense to simply enforce the rules that already exist. I think when it comes to the nuances of what is city business, what is off-agenda items, I think that the two comments made last week are so genuinely far from any reasonable sense of discussion that it just, there's not necessarily a lot of give there. I think that would have been something enforceable, okay, we can stop, despite the fact that one of the comments that the -- the other one did use the patina of the rays stadium to justify why he was continuing on his homophobic, very confusing diatribe. Going from three minutes to two, I think we should keep it at three minutes, and I do understand what you were saying. I don't know if i'm allowed to address the dais, I understand what you're saying when you can talk about three minutes on on-agenda items and two minutes for non. But a lot of people struggle to come up with their words, struggle to be eloquent. They want to be heard. Especially in a situation like this, living in a time where so many people don't feel heard. As somebody who comes to several of these and listens to people, especially some of the same people, it's sort of clear this isn't just them advocating for specific things as much as it is them desperately trying to feel like the government hears them, feel like -- what they do matters. They as a person has some sort of political value and don't mean less than some sort of $2 million person who goes to lunch with Jeff Vinik or somebody, to feel like they have a voice here and get to be a part of the democratic process. I think that cutting it down to two minutes, one, will make that difficult when announcing that. Let me tell you, if you think it is difficult now, imagine telling somebody they have less time than they actually do. That will be a brouhaha. But also, if somebody has any sort of disability, a stutter, if they speak slower, if they take time to find their words, they should not be penalized when it comes to being discussed and heard. We should go for three minutes. It's a good enough time to say. I have 26 seconds left. That never happens.
10:17:37AM When Mr. Shelby comes back, i'll ask him to provide clarification from legal. I'm hearing a trend. I want people to understand what's happening like last week. The legal conundrum that we're in, the interpretation we get of what I can gavel down on, what I can't under the existing rules. Speaking of the devil, here he is, Mr. Shelby. I'm hearing a trend. I think it might be good for you to provide some clarification with our existing rules, the conundrum the chair is in in enforcing what I can gavel down and what I can't gavel down on. Maybe, again, where our existing rules are versus Statute and Court and why we are in this position da he to discuss changing rules.
Martin Shelby
10:18:32AM In a nutshell, Martin Shelby, City Council attorney, may I approach?
Alan Clendenin
10:18:42AM Absolutely.
Martin Shelby
10:18:43AM Thank you.
Alan Clendenin
10:18:44AM I think this would be good for you guys, because i've heard a lot of public comment about, well, you didn't gavel on this person, gaveled on this person, did that, did this, good to hear why. None of this is taken in a vacuum. I spend more time talking to Lawyers than I ever thought I would.
Martin Shelby
10:19:06AM Martin Shelby, City Council attorney. Members of the Public, pardon my back, but I hear a lot of complaints when somebody talks to you like this, so i'm not going to do it. [ sounding gavel ]
Alan Clendenin
10:19:17AM Please address council. [ laughter ]
Martin Shelby
10:19:26AM This is from last week's meeting. I want to show it to you because this -- Remember The Way I started was the definition of a Tampa City Council meeting is representative self-government with public participation. So the purpose of the meeting is stated, and we have to be consistent with that. Why? Because the public has a statutory right to a reasonable opportunity to be heard on the propositions before the council, but the meeting is a meeting that is a government meeting in chambers, in a government building, and in late 2024 relying on previous Earlier Supreme Court decisions, the United States Court of appeals for the 11th circuit in atlanta actually talked about specifically public comment at government public meetings under the first amendment law and clarified it for the benefit of the public and clarified it for the benefit of local governments, all governments, actually. So, a meeting, a limited public forum is not the same as a traditional forum what everybody thinks is the first amendment, the right to speech. When I walked into City Council yesterday for my meetings with City Council members, there was a Gentleman right outside on the sidewalk with a microphone talking publicly. And that is a traditional forum, and that's governed by strict scrutiny, review of the courts. Because of the way first amendment law legally has evolved, we now, City Council, must assess what that is and adjust our rules to be consistent with what the courts find the law to be. So now, the concept of traditional forum does not apply to government meetings, even though it's a public meeting. The definition is, a meeting of government opens for public speech -- this is paraphrasing -- but only on specific topics or for certain speakers. And this is a common example. The public comment at a City Council meeting can be limited to, and should be limited to city-related matters because when you consistently restrict and limit the first amendment as a limited public forum to city-related matters, you have the right to conduct your meeting for the purpose for which it is intended, which is conducting representative self-government. And you, members of council, are the elected representatives of the citizens, all the citizens of the City Of Tampa. Now, why do the rules of decorum matter? This is important, and, Mr. Chairman, thank you for allowing me to address this again because I think it's important for the public to know that neither the city attorney's office nor I nor any member of council wants to shut down public comment. We want to be consistent with the law. And here is the key. Clear rules of decorum help establish the meeting as a limited public forum, and you've heard this discussed by the public and you've heard me discuss it again. This allows the council properly done, this allows the council to enforce viewpoint neutral and reasonable rules to keep the discussion focused and orderly. Now, this is the key. Viewpoint neutral. What does that mean? That means you cannot pick who you want to have speak, and you cannot pick winners and losers. You cannot treat the people you like and the viewpoint they like differently than the people you don't like and the viewpoints you don't like. And here is the other key That This Court came up with, or Following Supreme Court precedent. It's not strict scrutiny anymore. The test for a local government is, is the restriction reasonable? And that is a much lower threshold because the purpose of this meeting is of ultimate importance to the courts and to the first amendment and to the constitution, which is representative self government in allowing you to conduct your meeting and to maintain decorum. Again, the key difference between a traditional -- and we can get into a designated public forum is, but for the purposes of discussion -- if you are a limited public forum, which we have, by the way, always been, we have conducted city business consistent with what is now called a limited public forum. Before it was a limited public forum, but what the courts now say is you need, the bottom line, well-written rules of decorum consistent with that so that everybody is on notice, because that's what provides you, the government, with the protection to conduct orderly meetings while respecting first amendment rights. And let me just take 30 seconds, because this came up by one of the speakers. Florida statute 286.0114 Says, yes, you do have a statutory right to a reasonable opportunity to be heard. But further down, further down on the law, it says that this opportunity can occur anywhere during the decision-making process, not even necessarily under the law on the date of the final vote. City Council goes one step further, best practice for City Council, what it does is it allows comments at workshops. That is very unusual for local governments to allow public comment at workshops. So what i'm saying is that the reason we're here now is because of changed circumstances. Not only with the changed circumstances of the law, but the changed circumstances with civility.
Alan Clendenin
10:26:02AM Go ahead, Councilwoman Hurtak.
Lynn Hurtak
10:26:04AM I just want to translate for Mr. Shelby here what he's saying. Correct me if i'm wrong. Sorry, legally, lawyer-ese is still tricky. Basically what he's saying is Chair Clendenin couldn't necessarily rule people out of order last time because we don't have these Rules In Place. Once we have these Rules In Place for a limited public forum, we have more opportunity to rule those people out of order. Is that correct, Mr. Shelby? Yes or no?
Martin Shelby
10:26:34AM Yes.
Lynn Hurtak
10:26:35AM Thank you.
Alan Clendenin
10:26:36AM And that is -- very specifically, that is correct, and that is how I came -- last week -- y'all calm down. You'll have your chance to speak at the podium. Mr. Shelby said, there's not even a legal requirement to have public comment at workshops. Last week, I want to differentiate what happened. We had two issues I think most people are aware of from last week. One issue was the tiktok guy that came. And when he spoke, it was an off-agenda item. Because we didn't have a rule preventing non-city-related business from being discussed, I couldn't rule him out of order for non-city related business. I had no rule for that. And then in his discussion, even though he used hand movements and stuff, he's very good at what he did, he rode a line. He literally rode a line. Whether it got to a point whether it was a defensible position, in my opinion, it was -- I had my hand on the gavel the entire time, but he does this all over the country. He rode the line. And because we didn't have the Rules In Place to rule him out, I was without power for defensible city position to take that action. The other speaker, what the issue was, we do have a rule about folks that were speaking on agenda items were allowed to speak first. And people with off-agenda items had to follow. That speaker violated that rule and was -- wasn't speaking to agenda items, basically line cutting. Cut in front of people. Shouldn't have done. I asked him to pull it back to on-agenda items. And then that conversation spiraled. At the end of the conversation, he shouted a very derogatory term at me and I ruled him out of order. That was the only time he was ruled out of order when he shouted that derogatory term. The only other time I tried to bring him back to the rule of speaking to agenda items because that's what he indicated on his card, that he was going to speak to agenda items. He cut the line and I tried to bring him back. That's where we're at right now. Thank you for your patience. Again, i've seen a lot of stuff on social media and things. That was the reality of what we're dealing with. Yes, sir, start with your name. You have three minutes. Thank you so much. My name is Vasquez. I'm here at this moment as a security consultant. It's so sad what happened last week here, but it's not failure of the chair and the way the body is designed. Because this body is following instructions maybe by the Municode or robert rules, et cetera, et cetera. All the uses protected by your sergeant of arms. Okay. Your sergeant of arms, he see something out of control in the chamber, he's supposed to call out. Not you, mr. Chair. Sorry. Like right now, your sergeant at arms is on the phone looking what to buy on amazon. He's supposed to pay attention to what's happening here and everybody's safety in the back. That's his job. The sergeant at arms do not pay attention, period. You have police officers, and don't give the right to nobody to come here and respect you directly, because the first amendment is about expression. But when you get off of the record and attack somebody directly, with your name that is a criminal offense. Mr. Shelby read that very clear. Okay. I want to address something to you. Found somebody in front of the city hall speak in the microphone, making the noise. First amendment. I agree. But when I do the same thing, I got the Tampa Police officer get out and give me a citation, because my noise. Where do we balance the city ordinances? Because they call it a scheme. Doing political campaign. Everybody can run for public office. I respect the city ordinance. The Municode. It's 2026. What happened last week, again, you need to speak up with the protocol of safety of all the persons coming to the chambers to follow procedures. Last about the item in the agenda, if it's in the agenda, that means you have previous information. Why that person need three minutes to continue speaking about something you know -- call you all the time. I think that people deserve two minutes and people like me, who take the time, pay for parking, waste time and effort to be here to understand point of view, we are the ones with the three minutes. Everybody got three minutes or the person on the agenda only got two minutes. My point of view.
10:31:57AM Thank you, jose. Next speaker, please. Start with your name. Connie Burton. Your rules, Mr. Shelby's explanation for layperson just don't connect, because it's a thing called decorum. It's a thing that when we know speech has gone beyond what the public deserve to hear, i've seen this council, this present body right here, this Chairman right here, will hit the gavel immediately and i've seen this officer here take action. But what I saw last week in my mind is what privilege look like. That that person was able to get up here and talk in terms that if somebody else of color would have said it, I don't think would have been tolerated. Just based on the prior action. When you hear words over actions and actions over words, it is a frustration that runs so deep in our community, that runs so deep in our community. That we can see the Chairman can get us all to sing happy birthday, ain't nowhere on the agenda. But because he has that power, the whole community and audience participate in it. Nobody hits the gavel. So we should have a right to come down here and speak for our full three minutes because it's obvious for the length of time that i've been coming and other people from the african community, you simply don't hear us. You simply do not hear. The administration simply do not hear. Even with this full agenda today, we could talk about the crisis in our community, the high unemployment in our community, the suicide, homicide in the community. Trees. That's your priority. So the frustration of Black men and women coming to this podium to say that we want to see words over action and action over words is real because the fact of the matter, most people in the african community don't care who love who. We might say it to prick you because that's our limited power. We have no power inside of our community. Limit it. We throw stones at you because we know that will be your reaction to our words. What we want to see in this agenda moving forward, whoever remain up there is action. Not taking up a whole hour to talk about when we will speak. It's about 15 people that come down here every week. It's not costing you that much time. But use most of your time in your political rhetoric because you're going to definitely look out for the police officers, so you want to get in all your thank yous. Thank you.
10:35:05AM Thank you. Next speaker, please. Good morning, valerie. Valerie Bullock, Ponce De Leon, college hill. Thank you all for passing the agenda today. I'm happy you all did it. We got to start from somewhere. When I come down here, I don't come down here to see who is having sex with who or to be insulted to my tender ears. I felt like I was at mons venus, but we'll move right on past that. What I come down here for is City Business. I expect you all to conduct City Business when we come down here. I'll talk about me when I was disorderly that day, when I walked out, somebody don't even stay in Tampa. He come down here to down-grade Yvette Lewis at the NAACP. I was offended that day. He don't stay in the City Of Tampa, and it wasn't City Business. But I had to sit here and listen to that. So maybe these rules, if they are enforced, the city can do business. When I have to leave my house and come down here, all I want to talk about is jobs for jackson heights and belmont heights. That's it. We need some money over there. That's my main thing when I come down here for. Listening to stupid stuff, it's a waste of my time. Just like Mr. Marty said, all civility is gone. It used to be a time when we knew what to say and how to say it. But now it's like give me my three minutes of fame or i'll talk about this, i'll talk about that. I don't want to hear that we need jobs in belmont heights and jackson heights. Black people need paychecks. That's what i'm coming out here for. Now if you enforce the rules, it would be good because the rules are only as good as if we are going to enforce them. Once again, we're down here for City Business. I'll hold you all accountable for City Business. The only thing I didn't like on the agenda was Mr. Marty said you all will be out of here at 12. No, no, no. Sometimes if we're talking about something and 50 people here to talk, we'll talk All The Way through it. We ain't going to rush for time. You all part-time, but I want you full-time on Thursday. Thank you.
10:37:35AM Thank you. Reference enforcing rules, when speakers are speaking, if you could remain silent, please. The noise travels up here. When you are talking back like it is church, we can't hear what the speakers are saying. Interesting, it was interesting to watch full effect last week where a young man could come and absolutely obliterate, insult, and talk crazy from this dais. You sat there and took every blow, chair, without opening your mouth. But none of the council wanted to come out because individual had on an outfit offensive that you felt was disrespectful. So you had him trespassed. You had him kicked out of the meeting because you did not like what he had on talking about you, but that young man last week, didn't hold no blows. He talked direct. He was very clear. He talked about, while you said he walked a fine line to say that lesbian ain't even real, that is a katy perry song, that is a fine line. Seemed to be disrespectful. But you know, chair, just when you can do what you do because it's easy to disrespect the voice of African American people because I fought my own community. We won't get up and go vote and make sure that your chairship is over, that you don't have an elected official that you can push your weight around and treat People The Way -- you want to treat them how you want to treat them. You all celebrate lawsuits around here. Last week, $600,000 discrimination lawsuit on behalf of the city. I hope Tony Daniels can go ahead and file a lawsuit for his freedom of speech being violated, being kicked out of chamber. We got a 19-year-old that was going 120 miles in ybor, 19, leaving the clubs in Ybor City, drinking alcohol, having a good time and go 120 miles and told the law enforcement officer she just finished drinking in ybor. Last time I checked, you had to be 21 years old to go in a club and drink. But we want to talk about teen takeovers. I know it's those Black children out there, right? I get it. I get it. I understand. But in this day and this time, nobody is going to keep quiet. The Same Way you was able to sit there and digest it and be quiet, leave, go on your facebook and rant because you felt so disrespected. Chair, you need tough skin. You decided to run. If you are not doing your job and if people want to have freedom of speech to say what they want, they have a right. You got to stop picking and choosing. If you are running for mayor, Bill Carlson, you might want focus on the people talking because it is disrespectful to sit on your phone all the time while people are making public comment. My name is almost. I've got 12 seconds.
10:40:45AM You can't address Council Members directly. Do what you did last week, sit and be quiet. Talk to me on Facebook. There. You got the most comments. It was wild. I didn't really have anything prepared.
10:41:05AM Name. Been really reflecting as I watch this. Some of it is a little disappointing. I wrote it. Little choppy. Forgive me for ineloquence. When we are done, if you can clarify one was called out and one was not. It is the rescheduling to a different time. I support the idea moving to immediately after agenda items and good with the 30 minute timeline. The people in this community have said over and over again about systems of oppression. Let me tell you right now, I don't have the right skin color to say it, but the truth is, this feels a lot like what they have been talking about. This is a structure that is being set up because some guy said some really terrible things that I don't support at all. Horrible, horrific. I'm not talking about the star. I don't support what that guy said, not one lick. I lost sleep that night. I care about free speech a lot, a lot, and I don't like what he said but he's probably still got a right. Not hate speech, don't go after a crime, this solution really feels a whole lot like a system of oppressing speech. It also feels a lot like the board has already made up their mind. And it feels like you guys almost forgot to take public comment about limiting public comment. One unintended consequence that you guys probably haven't thought about, this vote, whenever it is taken today or the next time, is basically shutting ashley down. No more Black history. Many of us have enjoyed that. You can say oh it's city business and make it work. Really we're doing it so we don't have to hear about Pastor Williams' water bill again. Off agenda items. I understand. Sometimes i'm annoyed to. Part of the game. Figure out how to limit the time and make it what it is. That's what I have to say. Thank you, guys. You are in a very tough position. I understand. But just know from out here it already feels like you made up your mind and whatever conversations you had, doesn't matter what these guys say --
10:43:18AM You asked me to address. Again, I spoke about this earlier, we had two very different issues. One person was jumping the line and was speaking to issues that he had indicated on his card that he wanted to speak to agenda items, but he was speaking to off-agenda items. So I tried to bring him back on board with that. When I did that, his reaction was yelling as he was starting to walk doubt the door, yelling a defamatory term at me. I ruled him out of order. I didn't trespass him at that point because he was walking out the door. He did come back later in the day. The other speaker that spoke, because we did not -- we do not have a rule about speaking about non-city business, we don't have a rule.
10:44:20AM No, he didn't. Don't get it.
10:44:28AM I'll give you an opportunity to respond to me after I finish. What that speaker did is they rode the line on the words. If you go back and listen. I've listened three or four times to question my decision making about whether I should have pounded the gavel and also understand that prior to these meetings how many hours we've spoken about the issues, Mr. Shelby.
Martin Shelby
10:44:53AM If I can, before what came to you on May 29, I met with Council Members and the City Attorney, met with Council Members to discuss the issues that we were facing. You knew this was coming. But the question is, you didn't know exactly what was going to be presented until it was actually put on onbase.
Alan Clendenin
10:45:12AM We speak a lot about what I could under our existing rules, what my attorneys tell me what I can and cannot rule in had and out of order. I have to listen to the attorney's decisions -- opinions on this. It's incumbent upon me to do that. If you go back and listen to the words, they rode the -- it wasn't as clear. He didn't use -- he insinuated. He used very vague terms. It was offensive. Horrible. Is that clear?
10:45:54AM Yes. The one time I did trespass --
Martin Shelby
10:45:57AM Excuse me, mr. Chairman. Martin Shelby, City Council. Let me correct you. You did not trespass anybody. What you did, clear for the record, nobody was arrested in these chambers. I want that to be absolutely clear for the members of public. What happened was, the chair ruled somebody out of order and made the determination that that person was out of order, called the meeting into recess and then asked that that person be escorted out of the chambers, and that's what happened. At that time, there was no arrest made.
Alan Clendenin
10:46:37AM Everything else happened outside -- appreciate the clarity.
10:46:41AM That being said, i'll say this over and over again, sometimes as a chair I don't know where the line is, but I know a graphic picture of a sexual act is on the other side of the line. Some words maybe not, but I know if you come into this Council Chambers with a graphic picture of a sexual act, you have crossed the line. That is across the line, especially when there's children in this room. Literally children in the room. That particularly day, young boy, I don't know, ten years old, standing right there, so when there are kids in the room and you come into this room like that, again, obviously there are a lot of times this is interpretive as a chair. You have to make these determinations. It is tough sometimes to find where that line is. Graphic sexual depiction of sexual acts --
10:47:48AM No. But it's so far over the line, I just said I don't know where the line is, but That Is Way far over the line. Yelling expletives is over the line. I know that's over the line. Words --
10:48:05AM You did the current rules -- under the current rules, that's why we're here today talking about rules. Under the current rules, the tiktok guy rode the line and I didn't have a very firm legal position to gavel him out of order. That's why -- this is why we are here today, because we needed to clarify and clear these rules so that we have a very clear understanding, so rules are meant for both sides of this room. They are meant for people up here and also meant for everybody out there, so we have a clear understanding of where the rules are. That's what we're trying to do. We're trying to create a very clear understanding. I hope that clarifies your question when you asked about why I did what I did.
Luis Viera
10:48:51AM I want to call something out. Guys, i'm speaking to every single council member up here right now, last week our Chairman was subject to the most hateful damn language you could ever use against a gay person, right, and now he is the aggressor? Okay. No. I'm so sorry. I'll have to pick up my phone and call bs on this. That's all i'm going to say. Council Members, support our Chairman with what happened last week.
Alan Clendenin
10:49:26AM We'll continue with public comment. As a caveat, I don't agree with everybody's comments. But it doesn't mean they don't have the right to say what they say. I think my -- speaking of the Supreme Court, kind of interested that they issued a ruling I think yesterday that said Black men have a right to express if they experience police stops differently, especially how Conservative The Court has been and how willing to let the current occupant of 1600 do what he wants to and use certain kind of language, which makes all this conversation today so unique to me. I vigorously disagree with a lot of the hateful speech that comes out of that clown's mouth. Disagree with the speech out of the mouth -- not say his name, gentleman running for governor -- a peg, cat, donkey, female organ. Saying what he have to do -- young people, trying to intimidate young people with guns. I know he ain't built like that. A lot of the things say aren't built like that but say things they never would say if they weren't cloaked in certain authority. I don't want to get off of my other point. I'm kind of interested in know if the 11th Circuit ruling was published and you as a legal professional understands why published matters, especially my opinion isn't published. I have a certiorari right to go to the United States Supreme Court. -- was for the 11th Circuit. I'm not a legal professional. The bar gets pissed when I teach -- and they come after me. I have to be real careful straddling the line. Other people, understand why participation in public discourse is important. I appreciate your dissertation on our representative republic. Some people think we have a democracy. But we have a representative republic. Shout-Out To Dr. Melani at USF and -- even though on opposite ends of the political spectrum, I learned quite a bit. Dr. Jones at Hcc as well. And mr. -- the greatest institution of higher learning in the City Of Tampa, the University of Thomas Jefferson High School. Young people take control of your futures. You all take care.
10:52:08AM Thank you, Mr. Doss. Yes, sir, next speaker. Justin Archer, Panthers of Florida. First thing I want to present to the council is my identification. I am not a resident of the City Of Tampa. I'm one of your neighbors. I Live In St. Pete. My question is, why are you allowing me to get on this platform unchecked without knowledge that I am or am not a resident of the City Of Tampa? Because you're allowing me to speak on this council's behalf and these are your community members. I am not. So why am I so easily able to gain the floor? Because these are the people you're serving, not me. Why do I have an unchecked voice in this chamber? That's essentially what my thought is on this. You talk about a Tiktoker who travels the country and does this on regular occasion. Why was he allowed to gain this floor unchecked without knowing his intention is for the City Of Tampa. I came into this chamber kind of late. I've been gathering what's been going on. From what i've been hearing, you have the community members that are upset about somebody coming into their house and causing a disturbance. Again, I just go back to why did you allow it to happen? Why did you allow somebody from outside to come to speak for the City Of Tampa? That's my time.
10:53:54AM Yeah, that's -- there's been discussion about that. The problem -- and this is a perplexing thing we have with the City Of Tampa, our geography. The City Of Tampa, you know, the city boundaries are kind of weird. We're skinny and linear. Someone lives on one side of the road in Carrollwood, even though they work and play and shop in the City Of Tampa, it's difficult to say that just because someone lives on one side of the road they don't have some interest in the government city. I never heard a public outcry from City Council to want to restrict it to just city folks. Councilwoman Hurtak.
Lynn Hurtak
10:54:34AM I really think we should let public comment be public comment and move on because it's 11:00. I think all these folks have brought up good points. I want to ruminate on that. Thank you. I think we should let public comment finish and then we ruminate.
Alan Clendenin
10:54:52AM Sounds good. Thank you so much. Ryan Hayes, Mr. Hayes. I want to first acknowledge everyone that was here and experienced last week. Mr. Alan Clendenin, you do not deserve to be called those derogatory names. For the record, there's all this technology. You can sense when something is going to get quite uncomfortable. I don't know why there's not an apparatus, a button to where it's not transmitted, but someone can still speak to where certain comments won't be publicly transmitted to everybody that's online watching this and so forth. I was disturbed and i'll just say this, i've been coming here about two and a half years, and i've never received the amount of attention with our nonprofit or anything. People out of the woodworks, interviews, and I haven't returned any phone calls, just over my facial expressions and so forth. In regards to public participation. Advocate for this. The public is speaking and if there is a set time frame, please, urging, hopefully not talking at you, talking to you, talking into you, a time set to where nobody has their phone and all attention is devoted to the individuals speaking. You don't know what people have to go through to muster and build the courage to speak up here. You got some people that probably rehearse what they are going to say when they only have three minutes to speak. When they see an individual on their phone or even when they just leave, everybody should be seated here, give the public their utmost respect and after that, you can tend to whatever. It's just what people are going through. Remember, this is the public. You're not speaking to law professionals, doctors and so forth. These are average individuals that have to truly muster up the courage to speak at this podium. Thank you, Mr. Shelby, for articulating everything. I know it's not elementary and so forth. I believe some people did get how you were making your analysis with the public comment. Again, Mr. Hayes, I hope that you can all come together and probably make that agreement just the utmost respect. Again, have a positive day. Thank you.
10:57:32AM Thank you. Pastor did you wish to speak? Pastor Williams? Start with your name, please. You know, I walk in the middle of something. I didn't know what was going on. But public comment is a thing that we need, and we need public comment so you all can understand what we're talking about. You all want to cut that out now. Cut it down to two minutes. What can you say in two minutes? Good morning and get the hell out of here. And that's not right. Give the public a chance to make their statement. A lot make it very clear what they need is time. And not only that, but we need time for you all to hear us. A lot of times you all don't hear us. Hear us at all. And it doesn't care. The reason you don't care because it's not concerning you. Concerning people -- here. And we want to get through. Now I have to go back on the jackson house. 30 years. Not doing nothing about it. You all are the only ones who can do something about it. We're suffering because of stuff like that. You all don't want to listen to nothing we got to say. We have to tell the truth regard how you all feel about it. Now you want to cut out the public comment, bring it down to two minutes or two seconds. You just don't care. Don't care about a handicap person. Don't care about old folks. Don't care about nobody, but Yourself. And Yourself ain't doing nothing for nobody. We got to understand, people supposed to enjoy life and not stress and everything. Whole lot of stress because they don't want to hear what nobody got to say. Good comment. I can't say it. And stuff that they do, I can't do it. I'm an old man now. I can't do nothing hardly now. My wheelchair. I don't care nothing about who is gay or who is not gay. That's their business what they are. If they want to be gay, that's up to them. Don't bother me telling me, person gay, that person -- mayor when she was running for mayor, you know what she said? She told the whole world that she was gay. She can be what they want to be. I'm a preacher. I try to preach the gospel all over the world, but you all think -- I don't know what you all think about me. Gay -- whatever you call, i'm a child of God and I try to preach the truth to everybody. And that's what life is all about. We're not scared about one person.
11:00:49AM Thank you. Ashley, do you wish to speak? Ashley Morrow. Obviously, and if you go back to the first day I came here I, in quotes said, come up here and talk about anything, I might as well come up and talk about Black history. That is the whole reason why I came here is because it seemed like a platform where I could share some very important information. If it has -- I know people don't want to cut down to three minutes, whatever time you give me, that's what i'll rock with. If I have the ability to speak during that day because I know there's a limited amount of time. But it is an expense to come up here, parking is 4.50 An hour. So you might spend, if it's two hours, $9 every time you come up here every week or three weeks out of the month. It's adding up. It does add up. It would be helpful if there was some type of free parking, a voucher. I don't know if that is a possibility or people can sign up for something like that. But, yeah, I do not agree with the comments that were made last week, any derogatory comments made towards people that have different sexualities than myself or racist comments because I will say just like we say we want free speech, that's great, but there are limits because somebody can't call this one here the n word and we sit down and say, well, that's okay. That's not going to work realistically. I just want us, Black people, to recognize when y'all are okay with people coming up here saying things about the chair or our mayor, just realize what you're agreeing to and we're setting our own selves back hundreds of years. Thank you.
11:02:57AM Thank you, ashley. Appreciate it.
11:03:00AM Thank you. Appreciate your time. That concludes public comment. Councilwoman Hurtak.
Lynn Hurtak
11:03:07AM I think we've kind of moved forward with this, but I do have just one question for Mr. Shelby.
Alan Clendenin
11:03:16AM I'm sorry. Carroll Ann Bennett online. I apologize. Carroll Ann Bennett. Thank you. Thank you, clerk, for reminding me about Carroll Ann. I understand you would like to speak to this. I would, thank you. Carroll Ann Bennett. I just really liked what Ashley Morrow just said. I love hearing her every time she speaks. We shouldn't be tolerating any kind of hate speech against anybody for their race, religion, or sexual orientation. I just want to reiterate that. I want to get back to some of the other things that were discussed earlier when you were talking about the commendations in particular. I really liked Charlie Miranda's suggestion of CRA. And I did what Lynn Hurtak was saying, but perhaps the CRA could adjourn and then reconvene as City Council to do It That Way. That's one suggestion. Another suggestion is, have you thought about moving the commendations to a time certain at the end of the day like let's say 4 p.m.? One of the advantages of that, I think that it would be better for the families and friends of the people being commended. Right now, they have to take off from work. They don't know how long they are going to be, and you say all these great things about them and then everybody has to go back to work. Very anticlimactic. Instead at 4 p.m., They know, only have to take one hour off of work. When it's over, they can go to someone's house and have a big party planned or they can go to a restaurant or something like that. I think it makes it more celebratory. I would like for you to consider that. The other thing I want to say is that -- you are great, wouldn't want to do your job. Rather have a hot poker stuck in my eyes than be a City Council member, at the same time, you guys tend to interrupt each other or have back and forth on the dais. And for people who are looking at the CCTV transcripts, it's impossible to tell who was speaking. I think it would be great if you could try to restrict that, not interrupt each other, let someone say what they have to say, then you say what you have to say so the transcripts are clear and there's not so much back and forth. My other thing is one of the biggest problems with scheduling is the night meetings. Carver City had a legislative matter that didn't come up until 2:30 a.m. You would not put 2:30 a.m. On the good neighbor notices, when something like the mirasol is on the schedule, it should be all by itself. You need to do a much better job of the agendas for the night meetings. Thank you very much.
11:06:14AM Thank you, Carroll Ann. Councilwoman Hurtak.
Lynn Hurtak
11:06:19AM So my only real question, I still really believe in the three minutes per speaker for city-related matters pertinent to the city but not on the agenda. However, my only big question comes to this, if we're only allowing 30 minutes for off-agenda items, what do we do when we have people that come to us in our first public meeting after a hurricane? What do we do when we had the community coming out speaking against adult items being sold at corner stores, what do we do about these issues that draw people to come and speak and that every now and again, we may have more than 30 minutes' worth of that public comment, which there'S No Way in the world we would want to stop because it's people -- I mean, when people were speaking after the storm, it was gut wrenching and emotional and no one wanted to stop them and no one should. I remember one person that was like don't you dare cut me off of my time and at that time, we couldn't. The emotion was so high. What do we do with that? I know that is a kind of out there thing. It happens a good once a year.
Martin Shelby
11:07:47AM Thank you. Great question. Martin Shelby, City Council attorney. Other jurisdictions, when the time is up at the chair's discretion with the blessing of council, they open up at the end of the meeting and they stay as long or as short as they choose to stay. You take care of all your public business, you fulfill your obligation as representative self-government and then you open the floor to what a city related matter is that still falls within the definition for as long as you feel it takes.
Lynn Hurtak
11:08:19AM I appreciate that. I'm willing to give this a try, but i'm still -- my only objection is going to be that three minutes.
Alan Clendenin
11:08:26AM Carlson, Viera, Miranda.
Bill Carlson
11:08:29AM Two things, so I don't have to come back. One is the motion that was on the floor a minute ago just says that we are asking the City Council attorney to proceed with the consensus. I disagreed with many of the items or several of the items in the list. But just to let folks know, we're not voting on a final deal today. And as I understand it, we're voting to move the consensus forward. That doesn't mean that we agree with everything that's in there. We're just voting to say, well, the consensus of council is this and we're moving it forward. The second thing I wanted to mention is, Marty, what do we -- a lot of discussion was about last week. What do we do about -- if there is a situation where the Chair is observing someone breaking the rule and talking about one of us individually, the Chair can hit the gavel. But what happens when the Chair is targeted like last week? And the Chair has to make a decision then, you know, the Chair wants to follow the rules, but the derogatory comment is targeted at the Chair. One of the things I was asked from the community is why didn't City Council step in? The challenge is, you advise us from a legal point of view that the Chair narrowly is supposed to be regulating the rules. Is there any opportunity for the City Council members or the Vice-Chair or anyone else to step in when somebody starts to attack the Chair? It wasn't just the Chair because the derogatory comment was directed toward a whole population as well.
Alan Clendenin
11:10:07AM I think I could answer that. That would be a Parliamentarian point of order about enforcement of the rules.
Martin Shelby
11:10:11AM That would be at any Council Member at any time can question the rules or question the order of business or question the conduct of the meeting by raising a point of order.
Bill Carlson
11:10:21AM And then what -- we can talk to you about this individually --
Martin Shelby
11:10:27AM It stops the meeting, by the way. The meeting stops until that point of order is addressed.
Bill Carlson
11:10:31AM The next thing is we're stepping into the role of trying to decide what is allowed and what's not. What is free speech and what isn't. We would merely ask you and you could tell us whether it is or not.
Martin Shelby
11:10:44AM Well, I can --
Alan Clendenin
11:10:46AM As chair, because -- this is how as chair I would take this. If you were to raise the point of order, I as chair would make a determination on the point of order. We would ask Mr. Shelby for his legal opinion on that. I would rule on that point of order and then either the council would accept that or vote to overturn the decision of the chair. But it would be the chair's decision with Mr. Shelby's legal advice under consideration.
Bill Carlson
11:11:17AM Because on everything else we are told to defer to the Chair. When the Chair gets attacked -- always have the ability to interrupt but for the most part, the Chair is the one who is best educated and trained on the legal aspects of this.
Martin Shelby
11:11:30AM You raise some good questions. I think there is a misunderstanding that we need to clarify. I'm glad you brought this up. The Chair relative to public comment makes determinations and also with the order of business and the conduct of the meeting, you have elected a Chair and entrusted that Chair with that role. I'm going to read to you, you have a specific section in your rules of procedure called parliamentary policies. I'm going to say that what it says there is how you conduct your business, and it also says the following: the Chair shall decide all questions of order and procedure and the decision shall stand unless reversed by a majority vote of the Entire Council. You don't defer to the Chair. You delegate to the Chair. If you disagree with the Chair, you raise it by motion and vote of the Entire Council. Secondly, if the Chair is not doing something, or there is something wrong with the order of business and conduct of meeting that you find personally, you stop the meeting by invoking a point of order and then the Chair has to stop what it's doing, recognize you, you articulate what the problem is, the council member decides -- the Chair decides how to move forward and address your point of order. If it's satisfactory, his decision stands. Otherwise you can reverse it by a vote of motion --
Bill Carlson
11:13:00AM Ask this specifically, if someone says the n word or the f word or some other similar derogatory word, if we say point of order, would you then tell us, yes, we're within our rights to stop the person?
Martin Shelby
11:13:13AM No. First of all, I will tell you, i'm going to direct you each, I sent you two cases on Monday morning. The first case is the Mcdonaugh case, Mcdonaugh versus garcia from the 11th Circuit. The second case, which I highly recommend you each read, is Moms of Liberty versus Brevard County Schools. And what that does say is that does say you cannot just pick and choose what you find disrespectful. You cannot choose what you find offensive. It has to be defined. It has to be equally applied. That is a very difficult standard. For instance, there is a legal standard now for obscenity. I'm going to talk with the city attorney about incorporating that three-part legal standard into your rules so you know and the public knows what is and what is not obscene. But when it comes to subjective determinations of what you personally find disrespectful, the courts have a hard time saying that you have the ultimate unquestioned authority to do that. So that is a very difficult thing. I would direct your attention to the two cases I sent to you, because that sets forth very clearly what you as a body, not only the chair, but each one of you can and cannot do --
Bill Carlson
11:14:34AM If we hear somebody say the n word and say point of order, say read the cases --
Martin Shelby
11:14:39AM I'm not going to say that. No, i'm not going to say that. Do I have to say that?
Bill Carlson
11:14:46AM There is either a guideline or there isn't. If the whole thing is a gray area, then we're right back where we started.
Martin Shelby
11:14:52AM You can ask my opinion. The Chair can ask my opinion. The Chair can take a recess. We can have a conference about it.
Bill Carlson
11:14:58AM What about displays -- sorry -- what about displays of pornography which he mentioned earlier.
Martin Shelby
11:15:09AM If you had a rule that defined obscenity, he could point to the rule and say you are out of order. You have a choice. And this is what happens with anybody. After these rules take effect, it is out of order for somebody to engage in a debate when he makes a ruling and people disagree with it from the podium. That in and of itself to get engaged in that back and forth is disruptive to the proceedings.
Alan Clendenin
11:15:34AM Can I inject? On this issue, like the graphic depiction of the sexual act, I found that disruptive to the proceeding. Because of our current rules, my ruling of out of order was because we had a rule that something was disruptive in the proceeding that I could rule that out of order. That is what I stood on for legal grounds to rule him out of order.
Bill Carlson
11:15:58AM A couple of people brought up, I won't do it, but the hand motion last week that I personally found obscene, discriminatory and maybe pornographic, a hand motion and he was describing to some extent. Would it have been acceptable to call point of order --
Martin Shelby
11:16:20AM Inappropriate for me to comment on things that have already happened. I suggest that we can talk off-line about it.
Alan Clendenin
11:16:26AM I can comment on my decision making.
Martin Shelby
11:16:29AM I would recommend at this point in time there's nothing to be gained by it.
Bill Carlson
11:16:33AM I think the public wants to know where the line is.
Martin Shelby
11:16:35AM The line is going to be what's in the rules -- the line is going to be what's in the rules. If you apply them consistently you will be on safe ground.
Alan Clendenin
11:16:44AM Mr. Steady.
Scott Steady
11:16:45AM If I could, chair. Scott Steady, city attorney. I probably should have kept seated. One general overall question, that will be tough regardless. What we're trying to do is at least not create the open forum we have. And that's what we have. We have right now. Now we put them in two, try to bracket it. On-agenda items and issues related to the -- relating to the city. Hard for somebody to use expletives and things and keep within those brackets. There are still going to be tough issues, councilman. No question. The profanity issue. We're going to at least create brackets that will help us to limit these comments that aren't on the agenda or related to city business. Marty, would you agree? That helps us get there.
Martin Shelby
11:17:36AM Except there's one thing that I really think you're talking what the public perception is. Currently, presently, the public perception is that it is an open forum. What you don't nor I don't, I don't want the City Council to say that up to this point we've been having an open forum because that's not the case. The thing is, if somebody stands up there today saying two weeks I said something and it was in an open forum, that is absolutely incorrect.
Scott Steady
11:18:07AM I said we were creating the situation --
Martin Shelby
11:18:09AM We create the misperception because we have always held these meetings to be, Before the Court even defined it, we held it as limited public forums and Now the Court is actually giving you protections saying if you amend your rules, we'll provide you the protections. If you don't put it in your rules, you are on your own.
Alan Clendenin
11:18:30AM We're going to recognize Councilman Viera, Miranda, and then move to the motion.
Luis Viera
11:18:36AM For Mr. Steady and Mr. Shelby, you all are on fire and doing a good job. My hat is off to them. I wanted to address with regards to the issue that Councilwoman Hurtak brought up, which is very wise to bring up, which is if we have a tragedy or a hurricane milton, Helene, whatever it may be, I think the remedy to that, may have said last week, somebody does a memo and have it addressed during the administration update, that puts it on the agenda, right?
Alan Clendenin
11:19:09AM We could also have a town hall.
Luis Viera
11:19:13AM I did like two days after milton, had like 200 people show up.
Alan Clendenin
11:19:17AM City Council town hall and have a special meeting.
Luis Viera
11:19:22AM People who are going to come, like, let's say, a milton, Helene happens, people from South Tampa, people from North Tampa come in and they want to be heard and they are hurt beyond all hurt. And by putting that, which would be legitimate, it wouldn't be arbitrary commendation, putting it on the agenda for purposes of administration update, I think that allows them to speak on something that we will be acting on, so, therefore, it is done in good faith. I think that's fine. And your point is well taken, Mr. Shelby, on creating the perception that we have an open forum and everything. Obviously, we don't have an open forum, but creating the perception that we have an open forum. That's it. Thank you.
Alan Clendenin
11:20:02AM Councilman Miranda and that will be the last.
Charlie Miranda
11:20:05AM I'm looking at the regular meeting proposed for order of new business. I'm looking at e, the fifth item, agenda public comments, so forth, so on except for items set for public hearings, and then when I look down 12 letters down or to I, e to I, you find off agenda public comments limited to city related matters 30 minutes. So why don't we combine them, be the same amount of time, at least the people here who want to speak on agenda items, if they want to speak on off agenda, they get to speak.
Alan Clendenin
11:20:37AM We kind of already addressed this. Setting a time certain.
Charlie Miranda
11:20:44AM I want to make sure that is done.
Alan Clendenin
11:20:46AM Moving it to basically a time certain before lunch.
Charlie Miranda
11:20:49AM They are going to be together right after each other?
Alan Clendenin
11:20:52AM No, no. Because we're doing city business first.
Charlie Miranda
11:20:55AM I understand the City Business. Right after City Business, do this, same amount of time, people can leave if they want.
Alan Clendenin
11:21:01AM That's what we're doing. We're doing it right after city business.
Charlie Miranda
11:21:04AM Still not serving the public a hundred percent because they have to stay from when it goes e to I. Go on, do It Your Way.
Alan Clendenin
11:21:13AM I want to amend the motion. Carlson's dissent.
Lynn Hurtak
11:21:17AM I will listen to Chair.
Alan Clendenin
11:21:19AM Restate the motion. Change one word. Wasn't consensus. Motion to direct the City Council attorney to return on July 30th under staff reports with a resolution consistent with the decision of City Council on amendments to the rules of procedure.
Lynn Hurtak
11:21:34AM I have a motion. Do I have a second? I have a second from Councilman Viera. All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Okay. We moved this to July 30.
Martin Shelby
11:21:49AM Ten-second closing. Thank you, council. I know that it may seem like I have beaten a dead horse.
Alan Clendenin
11:21:55AM That horse was dead an hour ago. [ laughter ]
Martin Shelby
11:21:58AM I want you to know what we're doing now is the foundation of everything you do, and it has bearing on everything for the good of the city.
Alan Clendenin
11:22:10AM I would be remiss if I didn't thank Mr. Shelby, our City Council attorney, Scott Steady, our city attorney and the other attorneys that worked on this. Team effort that they took this on. One, I think you all earned your salary on this. Mr. Shelby, I can't tell you how absolutely i've always respected you and held you in high regard, but that level of respect is so much higher on how you presented this. I think that you did an outstanding, exceptional job. I'm proud that you are our colleague. Thank you very much. [ laughter ]
11:22:49AM Very good. Thank you.
Bill Carlson
11:22:52AM We voted so quickly. I want to say, again, this is going to come up what we just voted was to move this forward to come back in an ordinance. The Public will still have a chance to give input again. Depending on how it turns out, I may end up voting against it because I don't agree with some of the things that were proposed. But the only reason I voted to move it forward is because the Public will still have one more chance to weigh in. That means we still have a chance to edit it if we want.
Martin Shelby
11:23:23AM Just for purposes of clarification, it will come in the form of a resolution. Attached to the resolution will be the ordinance -- excuse me, will be the rules in ITs entirety as amended.
Alan Clendenin
11:23:33AM Thank you. We're moving on to item number 2.
Luis Viera
11:23:38AM May I, for Chief Tripp who is here and thank you for your patience, ma'am. We appreciate you. You mind if I set this up, mr. Chair? Thank you very much. I appreciate council's time on this. This is dealing with 33647 response times in the New Tampa area. Chief Tripp and I had a good conversation on this yesterday. I'll be making some motions based on the conversation on things from different departments. I kind of wanted to go through the history here. Obviously we're all on board with, improving response times and services in the New Tampa area. New Tampa is an area that in 1990, we had 7,000 people there. 2020, 20,000. Today in the last -- tripled to 60,000 people in New Tampa. Great growing area. A lot of the challenges that we find with response times are obviously relegated to k-bar ranch. Some of the other areas have challenges there. When you look at the numbers and what moves me to do this, about four out of the five fire stations with the highest response times in the City Of Tampa are in the New Tampa area. The issue for today, which we can discuss on a plan of action, chief, is what are we doing and what can we do and what tools do you need? I'll be making a motion for that. To assist with response times? I think that the larger issue for me as the council member for the district 7 area is that this is something that really affects my district a lot, in the north and New Tampa area. Obviously, chief, when you came in, we all hit a home run on the North Tampa area with station 25. Now with station 24 that's coming. But for a long, long time there, you had station 13, the 54th busiest station in the United States of America. We're dealing with that now. And that is a great thing. The issues to discuss for today, ma'am, and I know some of these we discussed last time are the cut-thru and for Tampa City Council, what that means is k-bar ranch has a very difficult pathway to get in there. If you are station 21 or 22, you got to go through cross creek, got to go through mansfield, and that's sort of a longer route. So we had passed through in our zoning hearings in the evening a cut-thru potential from Morris Bridge Road into the k-bar ranch area. What's happening with that? Obviously, this was brought upon by the vehicle loss in New Tampa that we've talked about. And then larger, what's being done for 33647, ma'am, with regards to response times and what can we do? And there are a number of things we can talk about. Obviously, you are the expert, talk about them and so forth, potentially having an ambulance there in the k-bar ranch area, having a temporary station, potentially, and we didn't talk about this yesterday, partnering with Pasco County or Hillsborough County, if that's something that could be viable. The motions i'll be making at the end get either mobility or real estate to report on the status of the cut-thru, because it's out of your department, and then, ma'am, for a written memo not to get you back here because you are obviously very I said about, what are the budgetary investments that you would need this year for response times in New Tampa?
Lynn Hurtak
11:27:03AM First of all, i'm going to ask whoever has their phone dinging to please turn it off.
Luis Viera
11:27:09AM I turned it off and it came back on. I don't know why. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. Go ahead, ma'am. Thank you.
Chief Tripp
11:27:19AM Barbara Tripp, fire chief for Tampa Fire Rescue. Good morning. Happy Thursday. I have to mention, hope I don't break rules, but today is a special day. Five years ago I was sworn into this position, so today is my anniversary. So I want to thank council for supporting me over the last five years. I thank the community as well for the support of taking care of the citizens in Tampa and also the men and women of Tampa Fire Rescue. I wanted to give a shout-out to myself. With that being said, as we have discussed before, we talked about response time. So many different phases that goes into what is a response time. Delay of response time. How is Tampa Fire Rescue continue to receive their certification based on that particular area of response time. All of our citizens matter. I don't care North Tampa, South Tampa, East Tampa, West Tampa. I think the initial conversation came up because of the movement of one of the vehicles that was in North Tampa area. Now, over the last couple of years, me and my staff have been reviewing the information because as we know with the limited resources to be able to build the fire stations, the limited resources, we have to get vehicles and stuff, we have to make sure we utilize resources we have. That's what we did. We've been looking at downtown Tampa with all of the different high-rises to see how we can make some movement. And I can continue to show the numbers of what we've done over the last couple of years. I wanted to go back over what we talk about when we talk about response time. So many different phases when it comes into response time. You have the dispatch time. Turnout time. Travel time and whatever the department policy to make sure that we honor those in order to continue with the accreditation. That is an outlook of what it has -- what we try to look for with the Cfai as well as the nfpa recommendations. Tampa Fire Rescue just got recertified for another five years with accreditation knowing we're in the top 1% out of 30,000 fire departments, only about 300 actually accredited through the Cfai. Definitely, that tells what type of department the City Of Tampa fire is. Based on relocating that vehicle, I also wanted to show the different types when it comes to runs. And it shows the units up in New Tampa and, of course, we talk about the average response time. This is overall for each year of what the response time had been for those vehicles, those units that are up there. Truck 23 was moved to bring down to Ybor City area, to help out with the downtown Tampa and basically once again to be able to utilize the tax dollars for that vehicle and utilize the resources needed. This is some of the information that I presented last time to explain why this administration moved that. What we've been looking at is how could we assist with K-Bar Ranch. And we talked about the cut-thru coming off the morris bridge. That would probably be the Fastest Way that units can get into the area. When we talk about the call volumes for that area, even though the call volumes are not as high as it is in other areas, but those citizens are still important to make sure we respond to that particular area. When I look -- alarm to dispatch. It talks about how long it takes for the call to get out. One thing Tampa Fire Rescue and City Of Tampa and, of course, thanks to council for approving for the new CAD system. New CAD system went into effect this past Monday. So far it's working excellent. This is going to actually decrease the time that it takes for the dispatchers to get the call out. So we've made major improvement, looking to advance that. That is going to decrease the response time as well. When you look at it, average from alarm to dispatch, takes anywhere between two to three minutes. When you look at the alarm to en route, when the alarm comes in and basically for the units to go en route, averaging anywhere between about four minutes. So once again, we're changing the policies to make sure that personnel are getting out of the stations quick and able to respond to the citizen. Of course, that goes along with the current time. Now, this is what we've been pretty much looking at when we talk about the alarm to -- which is an average. It can go anywhere between four up to ten minutes and all depends on where the unit is coming from and the type of call that they are responding to. Something, as I stated, that this administration is looking into is to see how we can decrease that response time. Cut-thru probably will be the primary. The next one, if there was some sort of portable fire station that can be put in the area, somewhere or if we was to do some sort of contract with another unit to be able to respond in that area. So my goal, when I first got into this position was to try to add additional transport units throughout the City Of Tampa to where the need is and, of course, adding another unit up in the area would definitely be beneficial as well. Don't know the time frame. Of course, with the equipment and just trying to get that going. I don't know what time frame you're looking for as far as how quick, how soon, but I can tell you that the removal of the truck 23 is not affecting K-Bar Ranch. When I did the research, we only had one call, that was in 2024, for that particular vehicle to go into K-Bar Ranch. I'll stop there to see if you have any questions for me.
Luis Viera
11:33:30AM If I may, any other Council Member have anything?
Lynn Hurtak
11:33:32AM Mr. Miranda?
Charlie Miranda
11:33:34AM No.
Luis Viera
11:33:34AM Okay. I'm the only one. Yes, ma'am. Thank you very much for that, chief. I appreciate you. I guess my question to you is, because the cut-thru, we had done that about a year and a half ago, do you know if anything has been done on that whatsoever? If that is the Best Way to address response times in a part of the City Of Tampa where 80% of the stations in the top five with highest response times are there, do you know what has been done? Does another department have the knowledge?
Chief Tripp
11:34:03AM I think that would be turned over to mobility. I don't know if economic development would have anything. I'm really not familiar with that. The last conversation I did have was with Vik Bhide when he was here. I know I did speak with Brandon Campbell, my office spoke with Brandon Campbell. I don't know if they are on the line as a panelist to comment on this topic. I'm not sure.
Luis Viera
11:34:28AM Thank you for that. Do we have anybody here online? So I will make a motion on that to obviously expedite that. Would you agree, chief, that is the Best Way we can reduce response times in New Tampa?
Chief Tripp
11:34:45AM I think that is the Best Way. I think over time, like I say, data speaks for itself. I think once we try that, we can come back and reevaluate the response time to see has it decreased over time and then, of course, supply whatever additional resources needed from that data that we obtain from that.
Luis Viera
11:35:04AM You talked about contracting. Are you talking about with pasco county or Hillsborough County?
Chief Tripp
11:35:10AM I was looking at -- I want to show you this. I don't know if you want to talk about this. This shows like the time, when it comes to a -- They also have als service as far as their response time. They are in the process of sending information over if we decide to do a contract with them to provide service in the area and that can be expensive as well.
Luis Viera
11:35:33AM Yes. Okay. What I'D like, if I may, i'll do a motion to get a list of the budgetary items you would need to reduce response times in New Tampa for the budget. I'll do that for July 30. I think we have space there. Actually, that's written. Can I do it for whenever. Yeah, again, that is the big issue, council, is that New Tampa is an area where we don't hear from them a lot but just because something isn't heard from a lot doesn't mean there is a problem. Objective facts does show a huge problem. The way the city set up, again, District 7. I always say that if you are District 7, you have to yell a little bit louder, bang a little bit harder to get attention on things in District 7. I've always tried to do that in my time here. With regards to, you talked about a temporary station in k-bar ranch, what would that look like?
Chief Tripp
11:36:29AM Well, if we have property, always look at once again, they do have portable fire stations that you can take and kind of like drop. A lot goes into it. I'm not saying it don't cost money. I don't know the funding expense that it will cost. But if you are trying to put something in that particular area, that will probably be the Quickest Way if you had the property to sit this building on.
Luis Viera
11:36:55AM You as our chief of fire for five years today, and congratulations on that, do you believe that a temporary station would be something that would be reasonable and necessary to upkeep with public safety needs in New Tampa today?
Chief Tripp
11:37:10AM I would say the first thing would be try to get the cut-thru because I would love to have a portable fire station to also deal with what we're having in the city as far as remodeling stations. It's one of those that you can pick up and move along. But i'm not saying that it wouldn't suffice. I would want to make sure that the finance that we put into it, basically to be -- to level out of the personnel that we put there along with the stations, along with the calls.
Luis Viera
11:37:39AM Great. Thank you, chief. Should I make that motion now? I guess after --
Lynn Hurtak
11:37:48AM Yeah, let's wait for public comment and then you can make your motion.
Luis Viera
11:37:53AM I may after public comment have more ideas, but that's it. Thank you.
Lynn Hurtak
11:37:58AM Anybody who has public comment on this, can come and stand to the left. Sir, come and state your name. You'll have three minutes. My name is Jose Vasquez. I'm here to support the recommendation of the chief. I'll tell you why. Since the age of 16, i'm a first responder. Actually in Hillsborough County, i'm a certified cert. Right now with -- chief operations of a nonprofit who dealing with natural disasters. When you got a fire, it's a disaster. What the chief's plan try to do is equipment to cut off the response time for benefit of the community and, of course, to guarantee that the employees, the Fire Rescue Department employees do not get more stressed. As she showed the numbers about how we can deal with other stations outside Hillsborough County, it costs more money in the long-term, she so far showed to the first responder community, can she do the best allocated teams for the City Of Tampa, her employees and the constituents who need to service. Please, if you really care about the first responder, know how fast the City Of Tampa growing, fire department, Tampa Police, give the tools she requested. I feel that's necessary for save lives. In a storm season, that's equipment we can move left and right. You don't know in the future buildings damaged. And I think it is a good option. Please, whatever she requests, give it to her. Thank you.
11:40:07AM Thank you very much. Next. Start with your name. You'll have three minutes. I come to you representing an Architectural Firm. I work with them as a fire representative. And working in the fire industry, the chief did give a very good presentation. What I did not hear from her is why a higher response time would be needed. So in the media I presented, you have the image of a lightweight truss. This is something that the Fire Community has to pay attention to often with the construction of these buildings, more often we're seeing more lightweight construction, cheaper materials, faster builds, and it actually creates a more compromising situation in fire conditions. So the need for a response time is elevated, where you look at this lightweight truss, that can fail in a matter of five to ten minutes under fire conditions. So when we talk about we have a seven minute, eight-minute response time, by the time they get to the scene, your firefighters are already entering into a hazardous condition that the occupants of the building, they got out. They fled. Now you need to consider the firefighters going into this building, what are the conditions, what are the hazards they are running into? We need to elevate those response times by any means necessary. That's all I have for that.
Alan Clendenin
11:41:49AM Thank you very much. Thank you, Chair Pro Tem. Next speaker, please. I apologize for the confusion. We thought we were appearing to not be limited to three minutes. We'll try to do our best within three minutes. We thought we were being asked to be here to present.
11:42:15AM You have three and three. You have two speakers. So you have three and three. Start with your name. Iff Local 754. Before we begin, congratulations to Chief Tripp on her five years of swearing in. She was interim from November for about SIX or seven years prior to that before she was sworn in. It is a huge accomplishment to reach the five years. We want to make sure we recognize her for that. The first slide, if we look at the elmo presentation, this issue -- and I want to wait to make sure we get it on the screen.
11:43:01AM It will come up. There you go. The issue isn't just about how many calls Truck 23 runs. It's New Tampa is geographical and distance problem. This area includes roughly 74,000 residents. A large service area with stations spread further apart than the urban core. Fire apparatus are staffed for readiness, not constant activity. The question is not whether Truck 23 is busy every hour. The question is whether the capability is available when there is a serious fire. Key point here, coverage and response capability matter more than call volume. Second page, Bls Provider, Transcare. In short, supportive yes is the equipment equivalent, no. It's far lowering the expectations of the level of service that Truck 23 currently responds to. Bls ambulance may help with some very basic medical demand, but it does not replace Truck 23. Truck 23 brings four people, als rescue capability, fire ground support, ventilation, forcible entry, vehicle extrication, and additional staffing. Go on to page 3, rationale was then said, advocating for additional units downtown channelside area, that the emphasis was most calls in the area were medical and that it was not needed. Our question is what's changed. What has changed from 2024 to today where there is a reallocation of Truck 23 being in the high density areas. Page 4, service equity problem, we've heard a lot of if, ands, butts, what will happen. Cut-thru approved year and a half ago, two years ago, and not a tree taken down. Public safety can't wait a year or two before a plan is implemented. Not knowing the resource for incomplete plan is an unjust decision. Page 5, asking for data to be needed, That Way before and after CAD responses can be analyzed to evaluate why this decision was made and what the plan is for the future. In short, we support improved fire rescue coverage citywide and additionally add resources where they are needed, not to take away from the community that needs it the most. To the point of reaccreditation, before I end my time, if we were recently reaccredited before the move, does the move hinder the reaccreditation and do they know about the reaccreditation to make sure maintain with standards. We are about done. Got it all in three minutes. Sorry that I Talked Way too fast.
11:45:40AM Council have any questions? Walt, did you want to speak?
11:45:48AM Councilman Viera.
Luis Viera
11:45:49AM Thank you for that, Nick and Walter. Appreciate you guys. I was going to make a motion, guys, on number one, because, again, I share your strong concern on the cut-thru. My motion was going to be to real estate and mobility, not just inquire on the status of the cut-thru, but to see what's been done in the last year and a half. If that is Our Best Way of getting response time done, want to find out everything that happened again. My concern is, and I won't get into a New Tampa rant. I'll stop there. But for you all, what other responsive motions do you think are good ideas for purposes of today? For example, I was going to have Tampa Fire Rescue do a memo not for a presentation, but just for a memo on what items they think are necessary to reduce response times in New Tampa. Would you guys like to do your own concurrent memo with that, for example?
Alan Clendenin
11:46:47AM We do q & a during -- [ sounding gavel ]
11:46:54AM I appreciate that. [ laughter ] approved a year and a half ago. Not a tree has been removed. Just two days ago, there was a heart attack up in New Tampa where the closest als transport unit was coming from Hillsborough and Habana. Ten minutes of travels, as reported to us, rediverted and other adjustments made. Ten minutes is a lifetime for someone who is having a heart attack. The question comes, why was there an als apparatus taken away from an area that sees the longest response times? And that is the core thing to this. We support any additional resources. A cut-thru, we all know construction and what it takes for land development. But right now, that's not going to be what's going to help the issue today nor tomorrow. We need additional resources. We need additional units. Whether staff during peak hours utilizing peak units as we have in the past, to test and trial those areas that may need permanent structures. I've heard temporary structures. I've heard temporary things. We had a resource up in New Tampa that was taken away. Why are we now entertaining temporary additional things when we had something up there?
Luis Viera
11:48:11AM Thank you. Walter, anything to add?
11:48:17AM Any other questions from council members?
Alan Clendenin
11:48:19AM I have a question for Chief Tripp. Chief Tripp, I have a question for you. I apologize if this was covered --
11:48:31AM Let me ask a question and then you can. Chief Tripp, question for you, and I apologize if you addressed this. We moved the equipment because of a need-based analysis that you did of balancing the equipment. What is the -- in the next fiscal year, are you budgeting for replacement for this equipment?
Chief Tripp
11:48:53AM So I think we're probably talking about two different things. We talk about response time. We talk about the movement of the vehicle. The movement of the vehicle was moved because of not being Utilized The Way it should be. When we talk about response time, that vehicle, when the vehicle remains at a stand-still for ten days and not even respond to a call, it's been underutilized. I showed the numbers that this vehicle haven't even -- I use the word ran a hundred calls in a year compared to all of the other vehicles. We need to put those resources where it's needed. Now, when we're talking about what capabilities of that particular vehicle has about the extrication and all that, we do have another truck less than miles from that. Before that vehicle is moved, all of this data was analyzed to make sure that we were doing the appropriate move. As far as the Individual, we have mutual aid with other agencies when it comes to medical, that vehicle couldn't transport. It can provide als services which we have a lot of als services in the area. There's so much that we can sit here and say why we move the vehicle. The vehicle was moved because it was the best move meant for not only taxpayer dollars but also utilize the resources that it was there for. That's why the vehicle was moved.
Alan Clendenin
11:50:12AM Thank you. Councilwoman Hurtak.
Lynn Hurtak
11:50:17AM And this -- i'm trying to find the Right Way to say this. We walk a fine line. I understand the question of this, but i'm not really sure what we can do about it because this isn't City Council's purview. It is the mayor's purview. I really think we have to stick with what we can control. We can't control the movement of an apparatus but we can certainly follow the movement of a road construction project more often. And if that is a motion you're going to make, I think that is a great idea. But I am concerned about us getting involved in things we just can't be involved in.
Luis Viera
11:51:01AM May I respond to that? Thank you. My motion was actually, because i've already done motions on that. I think what we can do as City Council is to the extent there is disagreement, make the disagreement known and so forth and talk about the issues. My motion, I think the larger issue, though, with this is that this apparatus was moved for the channelside ybor area where a lot of folks have been saying for a while we should have a separate fire station. I think the bigger issue, bigger discussion, the budget for Tampa fire and we need to provide more dollars for Tampa fire which is why i'll make the motion for I guess if you will a wish list for New Tampa. So, yes, that is a point well taken.
Lynn Hurtak
11:51:43AM I do want to say I did my bimonthly meeting with the Mayor yesterday and she made it clear the budget is not going anywhere. If anywhere, it goes down because we have to prepare for November if that happens. If folks haven't already had their meetings, just to sort of level set, you kind of knew it was coming but still a really good reminder that we are going to be pulling back in preparation for possibly losing property taxes.
Alan Clendenin
11:52:13AM One last comment.
Luis Viera
11:52:15AM Make the motion to bring it in for a landing --
Alan Clendenin
11:52:18AM We still have public comment.
Luis Viera
11:52:20AM You know what? I'm so sorry. I forgot. Thank you, Chief Tripp.
Alan Clendenin
11:52:24AM Yes. Start with your name.
11:52:30AM I didn't hear you. I apologize. Had an opportunity to go look at several fire stations, looking for places to plant trees, as one of the citizens suggested that we do that. I just found them despicable. They are underfunded. This was a couple of years ago and now more people and they are inadequate. We've had people speaking. They don't have like right equipment to go to the higher floors of all these new buildings they are putting in there. They need money. They need funding. It's been ignored by the administration, not by you, by the administration as are other things. Where is that money going? I don't know. But it should be a priority. That's what I'D like to say. And thank you for your good work. I'm glad you are here doing a good job.
11:53:24AM Thank you. Anybody else in the public wishing to speak to this item? Hearing none. Councilman Viera, did you want to --
Luis Viera
11:53:30AM Yes, sir, I do. Thank you very much. My motion is twofold, which is number one, so on July 30, first, before this, sebastian, my aide, who is listening, if you don't mind, I want a meeting -- i'll step outside and talk to you about a meeting I want to have upcoming this week on some folks. You know, yeah. Number one is July 30, I would like for in-person report. We have space on the agenda with mobility, real estate, and any other department with jurisdiction over this, including Tampa fire, anybody. But apparently I would imagine these are the two that are the most active stakeholders to report to Tampa City Council in person on number one, all steps that have been taken over the last year and a half, two years for the cut-thru on Morris Bridge Road to k-bar ranch and what is being done and what will be done. That's motion number 1.
Alan Clendenin
11:54:29AM Motion from Councilman Viera. Second from Councilman Maniscalco. All those in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have it.
Luis Viera
11:54:35AM My next one, let's make it July 30th, for a memo from Tampa Fire Rescue on what budgetary items Tampa Fire Rescue or chief would believe are necessary in order to improve response times in New Tampa. This can include but not be limited to vehicles, temporary stations and so forth. Again, I realize the budget potential constraints and that's terrible that we are going to potentially go Calvin Coolidge on Tampa fire, that's terrible. But we should know what is necessary. I think that's important.
Alan Clendenin
11:55:10AM Wouldn't this be appropriate to bring to us in the budget presentation during the budget for the public safety?
Lynn Hurtak
11:55:22AM We don't have a budget meeting for public safety. It's for the general. I think the idea is to -- isn't the idea to get it ahead of time so we can talk about it? Do you want a written?
Luis Viera
11:55:37AM Yes, ma'am. It's written.
Alan Clendenin
11:55:41AM I get it now. Otherwise I could see an entire meeting talking about this. We have a motion for a written report from Councilman Viera. A second from Councilman Maniscalco. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. Thank you. Is that it? Councilwoman Hurtak.
Lynn Hurtak
11:56:00AM So these last three have been things i've been working on. I do not think this is going to be like a half hour. I think it's going to be a little bit longer. What is the appetite?
Alan Clendenin
11:56:12AM We have an hour. We have until 1.
Lynn Hurtak
11:56:15AM That's true. I forgot. For some reason I thought we stopped at lunch.
Alan Clendenin
11:56:23AM Do we want to open these together?
Lynn Hurtak
11:56:25AM Yes, I prefer to open these three together. Knowing we do have people from the public who might want to speak on them individually as we go forward, but I think opening them together works. Also, I know that there is a powerpoint presentation, and my request is that you stick to seven minutes. I'll give you a seven minute time frame to go through the powerpoint and then we can ask questions.
Alan Clendenin
11:57:02AM Any objection to opening 3, 4, 5 together? For the public, we'll discuss 3, 4, 5 together. Councilwoman Hurtak, since this is your passionate item, would you like to kick us off?
Lynn Hurtak
11:57:17AM Yes. Basically i'll ask that they present for seven minutes. Then I have some motions, some places to go down to basically do kind of what Mr. Shelby did today and talk about four or five specific topics that we keep bringing up just to try to move it forward.
Alan Clendenin
11:57:36AM Clerk, would you remind me that Carroll Ann is on. Let's go. Let's talk about item 3. Second round about the tree trust fund and Nrac. Economic community. If we could have the powerpoint up, i'll give a brief presentation. As you discussed, you made a motion requesting that staff return today to provide a clear overview of our Natural Resources Advisory Committee, ITs purpose, goals, and how it fits in the broader context of urban forest management plan. Our goal today is to really talk through what the Nrac is designed to do, where it fits within that urban forest master plan structure, and then why this committee is only one part of a larger structure which is related to strategy. Can we have the powerpoint up, please?
11:58:41AM Hard copies? Use the wolf. We go old-school. Back in 2013. This is really our long-term framework. Essentially, the city's master plan for managing our urban forest. It sets out our strategy, performance measures, and policy direction that guides everything from canopy analysis to planting programs to development standards. And the Nrac was created as a tool within that strategy to be able to strengthen our community base and technical expertise informing our master plan updates. To visualize this, we have the graphic on the screen. As you can see at the very top it starts with our ecological analysis. I know you are very familiar with the study we do where it talks about, it looks at canopy change, Planning feasibilities, heat, equity, resilience. That is the key piece. That is the data collection. We get all the information. From there to the internal working group, our cross departmental staff review along with even some of our partners such as TECO, et cetera, where we're looking at the data, identifying those options, feasibility, et cetera. From there, the Nrac comes into play where we are able to talk about what those data items are, what the options are, get the expert input, have the public transparency with the discussion, have that trade-off discussion, because one of the things that they do talk about is some of that performance and how we're doing. So it's important to emphasize that our Nrac is an advisory body that helps with this strategy. And this is the master plan phase that helps guide those priorities, identifies those issues and informs overall policy direction. Nrac doesn't necessarily implement anything. They provide the guidance and feedback to the technical working committee to then be able to make the feedback and suggestions going back through the loop for decisions for our urban forest management plan so we could make some of those changes. So with that, the framing is just important about where we are in the cycle. We're now going through our urban canopy analysis, so we'll begin that. The Nrac is going to be important once we begin going through the scope and getting that data to be able to provide that input. For now, i'll turn it over to brian who will walk through very quickly Nrac's history structure, some of the outreach process and then our recommended next steps.
Brian Knox
12:01:35PM Brian Knox, City Planning Department. Briefly, i'll go over the history of Nrac. We already talked about how the management plan was adopted in 2013, but before that, there was a steering committee back in 2009 that essentially was the driving force for the decisions that were made for what the management plan is today. And then in 2017 through 2022, the Nrac board met. We went over policies. We went over the action items, and we went over the implementation as well. So just in short, the Natural Resources Advisory Committee, as Geri mentioned earlier, it is an advisory committee. And what they do is review the information that's in front of them. They provide recommendations based on the information that's there. Also, they determine based on those action items which ones are the priorities that we should focus on. And then after it goes through that cycle of the analysis, we take a look at it and determine is it Working The Way we intended it to work. So with that, i'll reiterate some of the responsibilities with Nrac. This is basically showing how they work closely with the internal group. With the recommendations, the Natural Resources Advisory Committee talks to the internal group, and the internal group lets them know whether or not what's being proposed is actually feasible. With that, we get our performance indicators that are shown right here. That is a big part of the management plan because it has criteria and key objectives, and those range from low to optimal. There are three others in between. And those action Items Can Drive the performance indicators to give us a quantitative analysis of how we're doing. And so Nrac will discuss primarily the four categories within that performance criteria, which you can see here. Canopy cover condition, health for vegetation, and also they talk about whether or not the implementation can be adjusted. So if something is not working, why is it not working and what can we do to improve on that? So in terms of the meeting frequencies, I think that's pretty much established at this point that we put the slide together before the motion was made it terms of the frequency of meetings. So our recommendation was four. I'm fine with SIX. And with that, we'll discuss some of the primary topics for Nrac, and those topics are what I have included here, which is basically the orientation of the urban forest management plan. And it does take a while to go through that process with the members. And we also look at the information from the analysis as well and show how they connect. Then we also evaluate the action items. There's over 130 that are in our current management plan. So there is a lot to do in terms of like what decisions to make, what to prioritize, and how to implement those moving forward. The last part is the scope for updating the master plan. We understand that it's -- that ITs importance is in ITs currentness. Looking at it in terms of, all right, what sort of things we can add because the plan is 13 years old, even though it is a 20-year horizon, there are things currently missing in the 2013 analysis. With that, this is the composition of the board. We took the terms off because that is something that we feel like it is really more important to talk about the professional qualifications, and those professional qualifications are the people we need on the board to give us the technical expertise that we need. With that, that concludes my presentation, if you have any other questions, feel free to let us know.
Alan Clendenin
12:06:15PM Thank you, brian. Councilwoman Hurtak and then councilman Maniscalco.
Lynn Hurtak
12:06:19PM If you could put the next step slide on, the last one, because this is kind of where we're going to be like our discussions so it can be up there for both the public and the council to see. I appreciate your presentation. I thought it was perfect. It was great. So the composition of the committee, I have been working with T-Tag quite a bit on all of this and to try to find a common space where everyone is happy. The composition of the committee, I think we all agreed last time that it would be seven members. Each of us would get one and then the mayor would get the sixth. I think that, we already agreed that that is what this council wants. If we need to reaffirm that with a vote, i'm not sure. But I received in terms of the staggered terms of the committee members, I received a lot of questions from Ms. Pettis-Mackle about it, which were really good questions about, this doesn't make sense. So ultimately just came up with the idea of the terms of the role would just simply match the term of the elected official. So the first year, for the first year, just one-year terms, get everybody on, let the new elected officials get their feet wet, and then by the time august, July rolls around of next year, they would be able to appoint someone to finish out their term, because the reality of the situation is, it's very rare that someone would serve all four years. That is what we experience pretty much regularly up here, that we don't have folks stay for that entire time. They have commitments. They have illnesses. They have family members. So I think honestly that that's just the simplest solution. The mayor would have his or her SIX people and they could change them out as needed. But it would be those Certified Arborist, Developer Builder, engineer, Professional Scientist, Landscape Architect and real estate professional. And then each Council Member would have a neighborhood representative and/or tree advocate and/or environmental nonprofit member. That's my recommendation for you all.
Alan Clendenin
12:08:39PM I heard you loud and clear when you said have her --
Lynn Hurtak
12:08:43PM Sorry. I'm still thinking of the Current Mayor. Does that work for everyone?
Alan Clendenin
12:08:51PM I think it's brilliant.
Lynn Hurtak
12:08:53PM If we did that, we could approve the Mayoral Candidates in July and appoint our representatives in July as well. And one of the things I'D like to do would be to move to reopen the Nrac application period from tomorrow, June 26, 2026, to July 2, 2026, and to schedule the Nrac appointments for a council vote on July 30th, 2026 at 11 a.m. Time certain.
Guido Maniscalco
12:09:30PM I'll second that. And that answers my question, so I don't need to speak.
Alan Clendenin
12:09:34PM I have a motion from Councilwoman Hurtak. I have a second from Councilman Maniscalco. Mr. Knox.
Brian Knox
12:09:40PM I was informed that the background process won't be complete quick enough for the July 30, correct?
Lynn Hurtak
12:09:49PM You can't get background done in four weeks? If it ends July 2, it takes more than a month to do background checks?
Brian Knox
12:10:00PM I don't know the time frame. I was just told it's not enough time.
Alan Clendenin
12:10:04PM Why don't we shoot for the background checks being finished --
Lynn Hurtak
12:10:10PM We're sticking with this.
Alan Clendenin
12:10:12PM Hold on one second. Is it addressing this issue particularly? Submit items two weeks ahead of time. It's not four weeks. It's two weeks. As we go through and it is the Clerk's Office that goes through the application process and they do need to go through that background check. I think the question is for them of what that time frame is for them to be able to conduct that, for us to be able to do our report and then submit timely for you to hear it on July 30.
Lynn Hurtak
12:10:41PM Then absolutely fine.
Alan Clendenin
12:10:43PM Hold on one second.
Martin Shelby
12:10:44PM I want to also, if I can, follow up on that. It is not the clerk's office that conducts the background check. They have to work with --
Lynn Hurtak
12:10:53PM That's absolutely fine. We'll move it to August 6. I move to reopen the application period from June 26, 2026, to July 2, 2026, and to schedule the Nrac appointments for council vote for both mayor and City Council appointments to August 6 at 11 a.m. Time certain.
Charlie Miranda
12:11:19PM Thank you.
Alan Clendenin
12:11:20PM We have a motion from Councilwoman Hurtak. I have a second from Councilman Miranda. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Ayes have it.
Lynn Hurtak
12:11:27PM So if we were able to get people appointed on August 6, what is the first date we could have a meeting?
Brian Knox
12:11:36PM I'm looking at quarter one of next year. And part of that is because this runs concurrent with the urban ecological analysis, the five-year tree canopy study because that gives us our feedback, our input and our data. So we'll be in the process of working on that while we're also working on a scope for the updated management plan. So those two will kind of work together.
Lynn Hurtak
12:12:00PM So October.
Brian Knox
12:12:01PM Q 1 would be somewhere between January and march.
Lynn Hurtak
12:12:07PM That's q 2.
Brian Knox
12:12:09PM Okay. That would be q 2. I apologize.
Lynn Hurtak
12:12:17PM That seems awfully late. Is there a way to get them together to meet one another, to start that process?
Brian Knox
12:12:24PM Yeah, absolutely. That's not a problem. We can do an inaugural meeting because there are a lot of things that need to be done. It will probably be less formal than the other meetings, but that's fine.
Lynn Hurtak
12:12:35PM Sure. That Way people could get the documents they need to start going through. I believe you said something like 130 different --
Brian Knox
12:12:46PM Action items.
Lynn Hurtak
12:12:47PM -- action items. That's a lot so people get a chance to look at that ahead of time I think would work great. We'll shoot for a first meeting goal maybe late October.
Guido Maniscalco
12:13:01PM My second still stands.
Lynn Hurtak
12:13:03PM Again, we still need public comment. I'm jotting down some ideas.
Alan Clendenin
12:13:08PM I think that meeting probably more work towards that goal, not --
Lynn Hurtak
12:13:14PM That's why i'm saying it's a goal. We'll hear from public comment, but the composition and the terms I think work. The other issue, determine if the resolution needs revision. And I think the only thing that needs revision in the resolution now is about the appointments, the changing the number of people. I did talk to T-Tag about the idea of for now focusing on the Ufmp update process, and to tackle the idea of tree trust fund later once we get through this. And folks seemed amenable to that. Just really wanting to get the Nrac up and going. So we could get people going and then further along see what the Nrac, if they need to have a different focus. But right now, the focus that you requested, which is on these. Ms. Pettis-Mackle, does that work?
Camaria Pettis-Mackle
12:14:39PM Yes, Camaria Pettis-Mackle from the Legal Department. I heard the discussion about the staggered terms, which does need to get -- will be changed with the resolution. And i'm happy to take care of that. If I could get a motion to formalize --
Lynn Hurtak
12:14:55PM We will. Have to get public comment.
Camaria Pettis-Mackle
12:14:58PM Understand. The other thing changed based on our discussion before, just to remind you is the minimum number of meetings.
Lynn Hurtak
12:15:05PM Yes, yes. Thank you.
Camaria Pettis-Mackle
12:15:06PM So there will be two changes to the resolution.
Lynn Hurtak
12:15:08PM Yes. So the two changes to the resolution would be the terms and the SIX meetings. Again, we talked about at both a meeting I had with staff earlier and with T-Tag about the idea of SIX meetings to really get people to know and discuss what we're talking about and kind of get into a groove. It probably will take more than a year to get through all of those if people talk about that. I just think that is a Great Way to start. So that's just this item. Item number 3. I have more conversation.
Alan Clendenin
12:15:47PM Let's go to 4.
Lynn Hurtak
12:15:51PM Can we get public comment?
Alan Clendenin
12:15:53PM That's why we opened all three, so everybody can talk about it and then get out of here by one. Open up public comment for all of them.
Lynn Hurtak
12:16:06PM I think they were expecting to --
Alan Clendenin
12:16:08PM How much discussion do we have on item 4?
Lynn Hurtak
12:16:12PM That's fair. Item 4 is the review of the $300 per tree mitigation fee. We just wanted to know what the steps are to increase that mitigation fee.
Alan Clendenin
12:16:23PM Start with your name, please.
Carl Brody
12:16:25PM Good morning. Carl Brody from the Legal Department. The steps are pretty well set out now. This original ordinance was passed in 2009. Since then there's been a change in some of the laws which set some standards that we can follow in order to make these decisions. So, first, the first issue we looked at on the legal side and on the tree side was what's the nature of the fee. It could either be an impact fee or an in lieu fee. Impact fee would require us to jump through a lot of steps because in section 183 of the Florida statutes, we have some high standards to satisfy. In lieu fee, it's a little bit lower, and it's really more consistent with the purpose of the tree trust fund. Tree trust fund is to address trees that are being removed and to make replacement. That's more consistent with the in lieu fee compared to an impact fee which is for the purpose of addressing changes that are made by developers that burden city government primarily for infrastructure reasons. Knowing that we have an in lieu fee, we had to look at what the courts were saying about the requirements. We have a two-prong process we have to address. I want to be specific because the courts were very narrow in their interpretation and focused on what we had to do to satisfy the requirements. The first step is we have to satisfy the essential nexus test. This is set out by the courts in two different cases involving similar what they call regulatory takings. Anytime you're doing a fee, what is equal to regulatory taking, which means impacts fifth amendment of the united states constitution, which means we have to provide special protections and rights for the property owner. So the essential nexus test requires that the Local Government provide a direct and causal relationship between the proposed real estate development impact and the fee being demanded. So here we had to show a nexus between the purpose of what our fee is for in relation to what's occurring, which in this case is the removal of trees and requirement for those to be replaced. So that's one study that we're going to have to do that we'll have to show that nexus. The second is more on the financial side, because the second requires that we have rough proportionality in our fee structure. And that means that the financial size, the cost of our fee, has to be lined up mathematically, proportionally to the actual municipal burden. So on that -- basically what they are saying here is the two have to line up. The cost of the fee has to be consistent with the burden on the government or the government cost to respond to the initial purpose, which is the impact of cutting down trees or removing trees and having to replace them. That is a study that has to be done on the financial side. So we put those two together. Then we can bring forward what an appropriate fee would be in 2026 for tree mitigation. Those would be the next steps that we have to take on the administrative side to get that done. I'll take any questions you have about what is required in the process going forward.
Lynn Hurtak
12:20:06PM What do you need from us to get those going?
Carl Brody
12:20:10PM We just need direction that you would require the administration to take those next steps to have those two studies done. One, to address the essential nexus test and the second to address the rough proportionality test.
Lynn Hurtak
12:20:25PM Could you repeat that? One to do what?
Carl Brody
12:20:28PM We need the direction that City Council would request this to be taken care of, that we take these next steps to have the reports and studies undertaken.
Lynn Hurtak
12:20:39PM How long do you think that will take?
Carl Brody
12:20:42PM It's hard for me to give you a specific time frame on that. Maybe we can come back later and give you an idea of what that would be.
Alan Clendenin
12:20:51PM I would suggest for this particular workshop we direct staff to return to City Council with a motion with a proposed motion to address the issues that he's discussed.
Lynn Hurtak
12:21:08PM Proposed motion for next steps. On July 16. Thank you. I appreciate it.
Alan Clendenin
12:21:25PM We'll deal with that after public comment. Is that good? Very good. Thank you so much. Tree-Mendous Program. Good afternoon, council. Eric Muecke, urban forestry manager for the City Of Tampa. I'm here to talk about the Tree-Mendous Program. The first question that we had, what is the success rate of this program? I would like to announce that we are essentially the best planting program that the city offers. We have a 96.5 Alive rate or 3.5% Loss after tree planting. Our tree selections are up in the resolution that was brought up last week to start the contract with Nelson Tree Farm. We have 15 species on there. I won't go through them. We have eight type ones and two.
Lynn Hurtak
12:22:32PM If you want to drop that on the -- yes. Live oak, shumard oak, and southern magnolia. Our type two, which are the tall and narrow, bring us to bald cypress, longleaf pine, and sweet bay magnolia. After that we get into our type three trees that everyone hates -- bottlebrush, crape myrtle, White geiger, japanese blueberry, which people do love. People like those.
Alan Clendenin
12:23:03PM We don't hate the trees. About whether we pay for them or not. Actually, there is one tree there I hate. I don't like the bottlebrush. Purple tabebuia and yaupon holly. Our wait list tends to stick between 6 and 12 months. The minute we get down to SIX months, we do an arbor day; we do an ecofest; we do a clean air fair, which then drives our waiting list back up because everybody scans the qr code and they want to get in line for their free tree. Where can trees be planted? Currently, with the way things are written, we plant in the public right-of-way for people who are willing to water that brand-new try for one year. The bang for the buck is we do the contract that we start up with Nelson Tree Service, they would find the trees for us, deliver the trees for us, plant them, mulch them, stake them, and water them in on that first day. Then Nelson Tree Farm is out. We rely on the resident to do all the other work after that. With that then, our tree-mendous tree coordinator, of which there is one for the city, she goes out and does the SIX month inspection and also the one year. One year, she pulls the posts that have been holding up the tree, we usage large pine poles to assist in tree growth, keeping it straight, pull those and then basically we're done with that tree and we're moving on to the next program. We do plant year-round. Normally our planting day in the past was Wednesday. But you could see with one person schedule in the course of a week, she's got to get a planting list out to the contractor. She's got to get trees in the ground that week. She's got to do the inspections from SIX months ago, inspections from one year ago and then she's got to do the 811 underground utility locates for the next week's planting. She's fantastic. Sherry, shout-out.
12:25:13PM Can you scooch the thing up on the wolf?
Lynn Hurtak
12:25:17PM Then I had a quick question that we noticed last week. Nelson tree is cheap to buy and plant. Why is it so cheap? Compared to just buying the tree? If they know they are working once a week for us, it kind of lets them set a schedule, know who the crew is so you can get real competitive on that.
12:25:44PM I love that. Just because I want to know and because Councilman Viera got started talking about budget, I know that we don't have a ton of money, but how much would it cost to get a second sherry.
Alan Clendenin
12:26:01PM There is no second --
Lynn Hurtak
12:26:05PM Getting like a second planner or somebody to go part time to help move this along so that the backlog goes further away, could we do that for, I don't know, like a hundred thousand dollars, would that work? In my head, it was 800,000 divided by five.
12:26:39PM Five divided by 8 would be -- yeah.
12:26:48PM 160,000? Tablet, cell phone, that would get us in the ballpark.
12:26:57PM 160. I'm going to file that away because I really do believe that a second person would be really fantastic. In addition, how many of those trees are native? Oh, I see. You have the yes and no. Okay.
12:27:17PM So we don't have any other native trees that we can incentivize people plant through the tree-mendous program? Being able to source them. These are just some of the most popular trees in Florida. If we are going to buy in our region, which was best for long-term sustainability of that species, we know it makes it here. It's just the palette gets a little differentiated.
12:27:48PM If we were take crape myrtles and apparently bottle brushes off the list and expand, would that really hurt the program? Crape myrtle, you are hooking at one of the toughest trees that we can plant in the urban environment. You could literally -- urban environment is very different than our native natural soils. We've disturbed them. We've compacted them. We put concrete all around them. We changed the ph of the soil in our process of living here. Every tree we pick has to be really tough as nails to survive. So if crape myrtle is one that takes that beating, but it also grows at a rate that it's not oak tree shade, but we can shade areas with crape myrtle. I think that sometimes things get skewed. We do not have a Complete Street tree inventory. So when we look at the numbers that say what we're planting in crape myrtles, those are the numbers since it was about august of 2020 that we turned on tree plotter, which is where all my maps come from. With that the data gets very skewed. When we take a look at the back of that, and I don't have advise anyone to do this, grab that canopy evaluation that just came out. And you will see that on the overall from the 30,000-foot view, crape myrtle is 0.6% Of our tree canopy. Brazilian pepper, 6.7. When we only look -- I mean, i've been accused of doing too good a job with my reports and what my crews get done. I make it look too easy. So, therefore, with that planting map, yes. Are we planting a lot of crape myrtles, we sure as heck are, but they fit in the tight spots.
12:30:01PM My last question, if we keep crape myrtles, can we just tell people they can't crepe murder them. If a myrtle is going to stay -- we do notify people. Can't stop them all. Some people, especially with a Lawn Service that if the Lawn Service is willing to do it, I can tell you they are not an arborist. They'll round out with the shrub trimmers and stuff like that terrible. If you want a campaign on that love to do it.
Alan Clendenin
12:30:34PM Again, bottle brush, got to go. Why aren't olive and podocarpus on here? And to get in the size we need, they are more shrub form. People want them more as shrub form and we need tree form. No one goes into the Nursery Business and says I want to put a whip in the ground today and not sell it for seven years. They want to put a whip in the ground today and sell it in three.
12:31:07PM I see so many great podocarpus even downtown. Expensive, and just to source them in tree form is difficult. The other two you brought up, olive, olive is very slow rooting. In the areas where we have tried olive, if you have someone who loves staking and restaking trees over and over after every windstorm, olive is great. You'll get a workout, build up big and strong.
12:31:39PM Don't we use them in Ybor City? That's where a lot of them, we get a lot of complaints about them leaning because with ADA Compliance and all that, the minute They are out and over that planter, it's just -- They are difficult to work with. They are just finicky.
12:31:56PM That's a good answer. I love the podocarpus that come into trees and they are clean. Loves them in shrub form. Loves them in tree form.
12:32:10PM Very good. We have Councilwoman Young, Councilman Miranda and then Councilman Carlson.
Naya Young
12:32:18PM Excuse me if I missed this. How do you all measure your success rate? Does someone go out -- at the end of the year we know how many trees went in. It is a constant rotation. It's not like all the trees went in today. We do the yearlong planting and then every year she's updating it, I pull up the list on tree potter of everything we put in that we have in there. I evaluate the ones marked as dead. That's how I do it. Simple, is it still alive the last time we saw it or dead? We are running about 96.5%.
Alan Clendenin
12:32:57PM That's pretty remarkable.
Naya Young
12:33:00PM And then my second question, you kind of answered this. I think maybe the last time we spoke about this, it was the public comment, Someone had put on the wolf all the different types of type one and type two trees. I think it was over 40 of them.
12:33:23PM I think the type one maybe 15 to 20 type twos. Curious as to with our list with our tree selection, maybe you kind of already touched on this, with so many different types, how did we get to this number, that the species of tree selection with so many options? Circumstances. So you're talking backyards. You're talking parks. You're talking front yards. When we start getting down into those rights-of-way, that's where things get tough because everything is in that public right-of-way. Overhead utilities, sewers, storm sewers, electric utility, fiberoptic. We have to find that tree that will fit in the spot and not interfere with those other utilities. Let alone when we get in -- a lot of Tampa is laid out with 50-foot right-of-way. If we've got 24 Feet Of Road plus an extra two on each side for curb and gutter, plus five feet of sidewalk on generally one side, your planting strip gets very narrow. What the University of Florida ifas found after doing a study here in Tampa, we were included in it in 2020, if we plant type ones and twos in those six-foot-wide planting strips, we are going to heave the sidewalk and blow out the curb in no time. Relative to a tree. 15, 20 years we will be blowing out the curb. If we go with the type threes in there, we reduce that potential by 50%, according to their study. When looking at our list, what are the buttress roots of that thing going to look like? I can't take live oak off of the list. When it comes to planting a live oak, I want at least eight feet which is the needle in the haystack of Tampa, to get that eight feet between sidewalk and curb, that is a difficult find. It's a matter of what we can fit in the spot while interfering the least with everything else that's out there.
Alan Clendenin
12:35:44PM Councilman Carlson.
Bill Carlson
12:35:48PM Two things. One, i'll have to leave in about 10, 15 minutes. Fully supportive of what T-Tag and the tree advocates want. Thank you to everyone for pushing this forward. The other thing, you mentioned a minute ago about the inventory of trees. About 12 years ago before I got on council, there was an app that had, where people could update and interact with it. The app had an inventory of trees.
12:36:19PM I don't think you all use that anymore. Is that data available? Is it available online for people to look at what the inventory of trees is in the city? I think it was called Azavia. It was a free tree inventory app available throughout the united states. Azavia eventually stopped supporting it. It became unavailable.
12:36:48PM The inventory that was done is that data available somewhere like in a GIS -- kind of thing I do. It's also citizen science. Meaning if someone doesn't really know what the tree is and they are guessing at it and No Way of back tracking. What you're looking for in a tree inventory, like the one i'm currently using, we have the ability to actually archive the tree. If we remove a tree, we don't delete it out of the system. It gets archived and stored for future reference. If anyone ever asks, hey, what kind of tree, someone took something out, we have that record. It's still archived if it's in our system. Like I said, we do not have a Complete Street tree inventory.
12:37:36PM You were talking about the right-of-way, as I understand it, neighborhoods like new suburb beautiful for the bicentennial, folks went in and planted trees in the right-of-way, but they planted them underneath power lines. Now the problem is they are being v-cut and then people are mad because they are being v-cut. The alternative is then to build, to underground, but that will tear up the roots of the trees. I think for 20 years or more, there's been a rule or a law that says you can't plant underneath power lines. That shouldn't be -- I see some pop up every now and then, people call me. Am I correct there's some kind of law that says you cannot plant trees underneath power lines because eventually they will have to be v cut. Category three, type three trees directly underneath utility lines, but you cannot plant any tree that exceeds 30 feet in height -- flip that. You cannot plant a tree that exceeds 25 feet in height within a 30-foot vertical plain. So if you have utilities on your side of the street, we can maybe plant a type three there, but moving into the front yard doesn't move us into type one and two category, because nobody has a 30-foot setback off the right-of-way in their property.
Alan Clendenin
12:39:01PM Councilwoman Hurtak, and this is our last and then we move to public comment.
Lynn Hurtak
12:39:04PM So one of the things we talked about at our last meeting and that i'm going to motion for is to amend the program to include residential front yards. I just want you to think about what kind of trees then, if that would change your selection process at all. Oh, wow. Prepared. Totally prepared. I will slide it up when someone yells. This is really what we're dealing with on a daily basis. I started my urban forestry career in 1989. In 1990, a book was published that was called the simple act of planting a tree. That book is 256 pages long. This is one. So I use this one. But it really makes clear on how we're making those decisions based on all the utilities and stuff like that. I am a big proponent of planting front yards. We did it in the city of green bay when I was there. We had narrow planting strips on oneida heading down south to lambeau field. Those planting strips just didn't support trees. Green bay, number one, hundred thousand people. Number two, not Florida. Not litigation happy. We just did a handshake agreement for all of those properties that we would move eight to ten feet inside their property and plant trees just like We Would Street trees, mimicking the effect. We're still trying to shade the sidewalk, still trying to Shade The Street. We've got all the economic, environmental, social benefits of having those trees out there. It's a great idea. Would it take a resolution change or a policy change? My answer to that is deferred to other people, yes. It says, we've heard many times that the city could just do it because it's in the current code. That current start of the code is for what's called the applicant. It's for the developer. It's for the builder, and it gives them five opportunities to plant mitigation trees. One is on the lot that they are currently working on. Number two are lots that they own in the same planting district. They are welcome to plant their mitigation trees there. Number thee, they could plant in the public right-of-way if they supply us with a map, and we can approve that. Number four, they can plant on public property. I don't know if that means parks or city buildings or whatever, and the Fifth Place that the applicant, that the developer is allowed to plant is on private property in that Planning district. They have a bunch of hoops to jump through that they don't want to do. After they go through those five, their next option is to pay into the tree trust fund. When you look at all those hoops, sometimes it's easier to get money into the tree trust fund than it is to get affidavits and rights of entry and guarantees of maintenance and all that kind of stuff.
Alan Clendenin
12:42:23PM One last question for myself, other than the front yard situation, is there one other change that this council could promote or suggest or insist on that would get the city in a position to plant the damn trees. Just plant the damn trees. How can we accelerate our plant more trees with one action from council? Because we don't have a contract with Nelson Tree Farm. We have plans for all over the city that have been designed as part of the Tampa Re-Leaf Program that are designed by landscape architects, ready to go, open the door, but it's a funding matter. And right now, we've got about $6 million in the tree fund, but if we're going to start saying no to this and no to that, it's been made abundantly clear that Planning, designing itself using those monies is a no-go. No one wants to go into a planting program without a plan. Whether it be house by house or whether it be landscape scale impact to a neighborhood. And right now, we're working with the, we don't want these landscape scale plans to be paid for with the funds. It's a matter of opening the funding.
12:43:57PM Okay. So we're going to move to public comment. If you wish to speak to this item, please line up against the wall to your right, our left and we'll start with michelle. Good morning. Start with your name, please. Good afternoon. I was looking at the Nrac, and I saw that they wanted to come back July 17. Did they change it to July 30? Now it's August 6. Another thing too, these are the candidates. Did they not see these?
12:44:42PM We opened it up for additional applicants. So these are still on but there's more to --
12:44:51PM Yes. People listening. Also, I feel it's kind of biased if they have a certain type that they want to be on the board when others that are not certified do know a lot about the trees and about land and all this other stuff that I think they should actually be open-minded about who is compassionate and who would really do a good job at it. Personally, if you guys didn't know, I worked on the Legislature Board. I was the one making the decision about the cell phones. You can't drive while using your cell phone. So i'm a very educated person, but I had a disabled child, so I stepped back. But, I mean, i'm on here, and I just, you know, want to get a fair chance. Thank you.
12:45:58PM Thank you. Jose, start with your name, please. I'm right here because the workshop we got today about the trees. I appreciate if you give me your business card because I have a different point of view and I want you to see some property --
12:46:29PM You have to address, talk to us, jose. I want to show you a video where our neighbor planting over 50 trees in the right-of-way of City Of Tampa. Been making complaints over two years. I love trees. But you have a city ordinance addressing that issue. When somebody want to plant a tree, especially if the person live in the City Of Tampa. So I don't know how you connect the data with the construction department about how many people request to plant a tree on they houses on they developments. Supposed to have it available. Every new construction, they are supposed to pay a permit. I got a neighbor who plant over 50 trees inside of the City Of Tampa property with no permit. I see the list of what we tried to present about the other trees, friendly for the environment. None of the trees is a palm tree, bamboo tree, wheat tree, know what i'm saying. I have to be a little sarcastic about that comment because how the city got to allow somebody else decide to come and plant trees with no permit, nothing on your list for friendly environment support this new program. I had to say that because the State of Florida, that is the one who regulate it. You know we got so many problems between the State of Florida, tried to govern on the counties and the City Council. Sometimes they try to knock down home rule. This project permits home rule. I appreciate it. I like it. But we need to be realistic. We need to find out the right data from the past. I wish I could have a conversation with him about how we can fix the problem inside the City Of Tampa because Code Enforcement do not do the job. So how is the vegetation on the City Of Tampa. As a taxpayer, i'm requesting information for the Department of Construction to see how many trees knocked down, how many trees are on or how many fees is paid for funding this program in the future.
12:49:08PM Thank you, sir. Appreciate it. Next speaker, start with your name. You have three minutes. My name is Ed Austin. I'm a resident of the Ybor City, board member of Hynca, Historic Ybor Neighborhood Association. Here to speak about the need for trees in historic Ybor City. Ybor City is concrete heavy. There's not a lot of yard space there, and there's lots of traffic. We are in desperate need of trees for shade and frankly any greenery to absorb some of that carbon dioxide. Right now that beautiful historic district is so hot you could fry an egg on the sidewalks. The jewel of Tampa is unbearably hot. I believe that every council member, the mayor, and the visitors bureau nearly everyone wants to keep Ybor City livable for residents and enjoyable for visitors. So that brings me to the right tree for the Right Place approach. In this urban setting, there's room for a few type one and two trees, but only a few. Plant more than a handful of type one and two would require bumping out sidewalks and/or road diets. If Tampa is willing to make that investment, we're good. If not, type three trees should be considered. We've been working with the city on getting trees for this historic district for two years with assurances that ybor is a high priority. When the mayor talks about 30,000 trees for the heat resilience playbook, we were confident that Ybor City would be near the top of neighborhoods in need. Nothing has happened as of yet. There's been no action. If Tree Trust Funds only fund type one and two trees because the moneys in the fund come from removal of type one and two trees, that makes sense to a degree. But I can tell you that several large grand oaks were removed by TECO on Third Avenue and never replaced. The power lines make it impossible to replace them? Will we be left out of the mix because we don't have room for type one and two trees? That doesn't make sense. We're looking for solutions. Here is the bottom line, Ybor City needs trees and we need them yesterday. If the tree trust fund will not provide for type three trees that fit in this urban environment, then the city should find another funding source to do so or bump out sidewalks to make it happen. If you value Ybor City, you have to accept the fact that we need trees. And i'm here to ask for your support in finding a way to make that happen for our historic district. This is a neighborhood request for all the right reasons. Thank you.
12:51:47PM Thank you very much. Next speaker, please. Start with your name. I just got information about some of the things that Eric Muecke was talking about this morning. One of them was that they need $150,000 to do -- to pay for some plans that were made. And my understanding when I won't to a workshop in Ybor City that displayed all the plans made, they were already made and paid for by a grant. So I don't know why they have made other plans and expect to be paid back by the tree trust fund. So we've been asking for a lot of the information, so I was happy to hear that eric has that information. I would like to see it shared, where is sherry's list? Where are the trees being planted? How many? When? By who? How much is it costing? We don't get that. We get an amount, and that's it. I don't think that's enough. We've been asking for more. This is an example, and the data is in process, and this was from, I don't know, a while ago. The other thing was, now we can get trees for less, and the last time I was at a meeting, a workshop, it was like up to $1,800 to plant any tree. Now it's cheaper. But it depends on the tree. Well, the other time it didn't depend on the tree. Any tree, crape myrtle or a live oak, they all cost the same because of all the other stuff involved with planting a tree. It's not just getting the tree. And I understand that. But it is true that the reason we even have a tree trust fund is because of the mitigation funds on these live grand oaks, and they are disappearing. Go down where they are doing Selmon. Of course, we have no control over Selmon. There must be at least 50 trees where I used to walk, where I do walk. They are gone or on Their Way out, because they are expanding that. And there are examples of it all over the city. So that's why we're asking -- it's not that we don't like the other kinds of trees. And, yes, we need a variety of trees, but in the last couple of years, the emphasis has been on getting so many million of trees planted versus the kinds of ones planted. And these are the ones that are going. They are gone, and they are not coming back. I think we need to -- we're in this together. We must have a strong, regenerative care for this world. It's our only world. So please, think about, yes, start planting the type one trees and type two trees and then you can fill it in with the other ones. That's my request.
12:55:01PM Thank you. Next speaker, please. This will be our last in-person. We have Carroll Ann Bennett online. My name is Pamela Jackson Haney. I am with T-Tag. Listening to today and listening to all the speakers, we're obviously in a tree crisis in our city. We don't have enough, and we're at a stand-still. I think that -- T-Tag needs to be clear that we are not against type three trees. We are not. What we are saying is we want the tree trust fund to be used and prioritized for type one and type two trees. We just found out that as allison was saying, $150,000 was taken from the tree trust fund for plans, three plans for three different neighborhoods. I believe ybor was one of them. I don't think that is in the ordinance that they are allowed to use the tree money for making plans. Also, when we looked at some of the plans, like the Davis Islands one, it was a very expensive plan to put along the Airport Way on Davis Boulevard. So much of it was for things other than trees. What we're trying to say, we want it focused on type one and type two trees. There is a way, we saw it in the last tree report, there is room for the trees to be planted all over the City Of Tampa. There are acres and acres available. Go ahead and use the -- another fund for type three trees. The Tree Fund cannot be the only fund that the city has to plant trees. There has to be other money there. If there isn't, that is a big problem. What we're saying is, please, prioritize type one and type two trees where they need to be planted. Maybe if we do open up to the front yards, they could be the front yards Across The Street from the power lines. Like I have power lines in front of my house. Years ago an oak tree was planted there, and it does have a big v in it. It's not the prettiest oak. But Across The Street where there are no power lines, obviously, those people could have trees in their front yards and maybe some of them would welcome that. There are others I know that don't, because they want their house to be the main focus and not a tree. But we are in a crisis mode. We need the trees planted. So, please, prioritize what we're using the Tree Fund money for.
12:57:49PM Thank you very much. Carroll Ann Bennett. Thank you for your patience, Carroll Ann. These are three agenda items I signed up for, so don't cut me off. At the Tampa tree round table, it was stated and been stated in other reports and in other places that the urban forestry budget is twice or three times what it is compared to other municipalities. Almost 700 municipalities that fund it more than others. Our big point is that the tree trust fund cannot be the only source of income for the forest budget of the City Of Tampa. It should be two or three times what you guys, what the city has been budgeting. And that's our biggest issue here is that the tree trust fund has to be protected because the purpose was to replace the loss of canopy and shade trees because that's where the money came from, and it is not to supplement what the city should be funding on ITs own. I would like to address what eric said about planting on private property. He cited a section of the plan 284.4.2 That's about how this is where the developers and the builders can plant trees. He is correct in that. But the tree trust fund, section, it, says specifically the trust fund shall be used for trees planted in -- and there is a list, and it includes any other lands described in that section. So any lands that are described in the section for the developers and the businesses are okay to spend tree trust fund money. The policy of tree-mendous can be changed with a simple motion. You don't have to amend the tree trust fund to fund that. If someone wants -- has only inappropriate places for type ones and twos in their yard, then they either don't qualify for the tree-mendous program or they have to plant it in the front yard. These are free trees. I would also like to point out that when we talked about refunding the pipes program for the money they spent on type threes, we made it abundantly clear and Alan Clendenin actually started to make a motion saying they couldn't use tree trust fund money for type threes, that tree trust fund money is not for type threes. You are supposed to be funding that with other money. That's what you want to do, yes, type threes are important. We're not against them. I would like for you to read Shawn Landry's e-mail that he sent to you guys on April 30. In there he says he recommends sending the plans, the re-leaf plans that you guys spent all that money on for ybor, mcfarlane and the other one, send the plans out to bid, but require the bids to include separate options for planting all the trees versus planting only type one and two trees. Do that. We support it. Send it out to bid. Have them come back with those two options. Use the tree trust fund money for the type one and two. Nobody is stopping you from doing that. I see proposals to spend 40% of the funds on the type threes for the tree-mendous, but I don't see proposals for planting in front of fire and police stations or the bus stop that I talked about for years. And, by the way, he said crape myrtles are 0.6% Of the tree canopy, that right there is proof that we shouldn't be planting and they are not adding to the tree canopy.
1:01:30PM Carroll Ann, your time has expired and we're at 1:00.
1:01:38PM Carroll Ann -- thank you, Carroll Ann. We're at 1:00 on our stop. I appreciate your time and your input. I think we understand exactly what your positions are on this. Thank you. I support your position. Councilwoman Hurtak.
Lynn Hurtak
1:01:56PM I move that legal prepare the updated Nrac resolution to come back on July 16 for approval, including that the member terms -- i'm sorry -- to add to -- two more appointees so that council has seven. That's my first motion.
Alan Clendenin
1:02:25PM We have a motion. We have a second from Councilman Miranda. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed?
Guido Maniscalco
1:02:35PM What about the August 6?
Lynn Hurtak
1:02:37PM We already did the August 6. That's done. We approved adding more members. Next, I move that legal prepare the updated Nrac resolution to come back on July -- i'm sorry. I needed to add more things to that. Motion to amend my motion -- can I rescind? Sorry. I rescind.
Alan Clendenin
1:03:03PM We'll play with the rules for a second. We have a motion to reconsider -- or amend the previously --
Lynn Hurtak
1:03:13PM Sure. I'll amend it. I move that legal prepare the updated nrac resolution and to come back July 16 for approval. It should include the addition of two more council representatives. It should include that the member terms are to match the tenure of the Elected Official. And that in ITs first year, there should be SIX meetings and at least four meetings in the years thereafter.
Alan Clendenin
1:03:46PM Instead of first year, FY '27?
Lynn Hurtak
1:03:50PM Sure. FY '27, SIX meetings in FY '27 and at least four every year thereafter.
Alan Clendenin
1:03:58PM I have a motion from Councilwoman Hurtak. A second from councilman Miranda. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed? Ayes have it.
Lynn Hurtak
1:04:04PM Ms. Pettis-Mackle, does that work?
Camaria Pettis-Mackle
1:04:07PM Yes.
Lynn Hurtak
1:04:08PM Thank you. I finally got it right. I'm asking staff to return to City Council with a proposed motion for the next steps on increasing the tree mitigation fee on July 16, 2026.
Alan Clendenin
1:04:26PM We have a motion from Councilwoman Hurtak. A second from Councilman Miranda. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? The ayes have it. Actually, not next step. It was bring back proposed resolution language.
Lynn Hurtak
1:04:39PM I apologize. No, that's not enough time. That's fair. I will amend my motion to say that i'm going to ask staff to return to City Council with a resolution for the next steps of the tree mitigation fee study on August 6. One more. Okay. August. That's going to be -- you're making me do math. 20th. That would be August 20. We have that off. Yes, August 27.
Alan Clendenin
1:05:24PM I have a motion and second. Mr. Shelby.
Martin Shelby
1:05:27PM Just a question, a resolution to come back --
Lynn Hurtak
1:05:30PM It's a motion to come back to City Council with a resolution --
Martin Shelby
1:05:36PM Resolution doing what?
Lynn Hurtak
1:05:39PM Approving next steps.
Martin Shelby
1:05:42PM You want a resolution that formalizes --
Alan Clendenin
1:05:45PM What the expectation is on August 27, staff will bring back language of a resolution, the language for a resolution to give us the ability --
Lynn Hurtak
1:05:59PM I don't think we need a resolution.
Martin Shelby
1:06:00PM That's what i'm asking. A resolution is a formal process.
Alan Clendenin
1:06:04PM Don't we want a formal process?
Martin Shelby
1:06:07PM Does it have to be in the form of a resolution? It could see be a written staff report.
Lynn Hurtak
1:06:16PM What is the motion I need to get this going?
Carl Brody
1:06:18PM Carl Brody, Legal Department. I think if we come back, I think the august --
Alan Clendenin
1:06:24PM Do you need a resolution?
Carl Brody
1:06:25PM We do not need a resolution, but we can come back with a proposal --
Lynn Hurtak
1:06:29PM On August 27, i'm going to rescind the motion I made.
Alan Clendenin
1:06:39PM We're going to pretend like the motion never happened. All those in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have it.
Lynn Hurtak
1:06:44PM I'm going to ask that Mr. Brody -- sorry, staff, because it could be others -- i'm going to ask that staff return on August 27 with the next --
Carl Brody
1:06:56PM We'll have a proposal for you for next steps.
Lynn Hurtak
1:06:59PM -- proposal for next steps on moving the fee study forward.
Alan Clendenin
1:07:03PM We have a motion and second. All in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. Thank you.
Lynn Hurtak
1:07:07PM I move --
Alan Clendenin
1:07:10PM Miranda.
Lynn Hurtak
1:07:13PM I move to amend the tree-mendous program to include resident front yards.
Alan Clendenin
1:07:18PM Motion from Councilwoman Hurtak. A second from Councilman Maniscalco. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Ayes have it.
Lynn Hurtak
1:07:25PM How about this? How about, because I do see the need for urban trees. I understand what people are saying. How about we prioritize in the tree-mendous program the planting of type one and two trees, get those done first --
Guido Maniscalco
1:07:49PM And then focus on the type three.
Alan Clendenin
1:07:51PM That's --
Lynn Hurtak
1:07:52PM I know. For this, I want to be able to fund the type one and type two trees with tree trust fund money. We need to be planting type three trees but we should be doing with other funds. The question is how do we find this?
Alan Clendenin
1:08:11PM That's the problem. Plant in Ybor City.
Charlie Miranda
1:08:15PM I'm not in disagreement with that. Also realize what we stated here today by the experts that some of these trees you can't plant where you think you want to plant them because the base of them is much stronger and much willing to lift up sidewalks and -- people's pavers, whatever close by. We may be disruptive of what we're trying to do by saying we'll plant that tree there and five years from now you have chaos and you don't have the tree or the sidewalk --
Alan Clendenin
1:08:44PM Unintended consequences. We walk the streets of Ybor City, it is blazing hot and no trees. What can we plant there? Ought to be able to put something in Ybor City. Staff has heard the will of council. Obviously, we want to favor -- we want to be able to exhaust all of our opportunities to plant these ones and twos. When all else fails, at the same time in Ybor City, we have got to be able to plant the other plants. We want to be able to give that priority. I think that's kind of the intent. Maybe we can come back a year from now and see how it's working. Give a report on the number of ones and twos and a report on where they are planted.
Lynn Hurtak
1:09:33PM Ultimately if we're going to do this for a year to simply have the tremendous program focus on type one and type two trees, maybe they come back in SIX months and tell us how it's going. If it's not going well, we can -- okay. I make a motion that -- yeah, so we need -- so on July 16, I would like the motion to come back from last week that we denied for the tree-mendous program to fund only type one and type two trees moving forward. For a year pilot.
Alan Clendenin
1:10:22PM The problem, then not planting anything in Ybor City.
Lynn Hurtak
1:10:36PM I made all these motions, somebody else make one.
Alan Clendenin
1:10:38PM Mr. Shelby, bring it home us.
Martin Shelby
1:10:41PM If the council wishes to have the office work with staff, just in terms to come back with a motion that could actually work. If you would like me to work with you on that, I would be happy to.
Lynn Hurtak
1:10:54PM I appreciate it. I have a million things to do this afternoon. We need to get something going because they don't have any funds to do the program right now.
Martin Shelby
1:11:03PM What is happening, you're asking next week -- you didn't make the motion, didn't pass type one, type two.
Alan Clendenin
1:11:16PM I think what we do, I agree, we need to be planting the ones and twos with the tree-mendous program. It's common sense. Makes sense to me. That being said, unfortunately we live in a real world where we have the exceptions to the rule and you know me, I don't like doing the absolutes because there is a place where we have to plant one of these other types of trees in a particular location, highlighting Ybor City. I think that we -- again, you heard council strongly support planting type one and twos. I think 12 months from now we come back and say give us an inventory of how many trees and what we don't want to see is two-thirds of plants being type three trees. We want to see a significant increase in the plantings of these type ones and twos. And show if you planted the type threes, where they were and why they were planted there with a good explanation, I think would be good. Some of us were burnt because we saw in the water system, water planting there were areas probably very eligible for better trees and they ended up defaulting to like a crape myrtle. They probably could have been a better tree planted at that location. I think that gives us a bad taste in our mouth. I think that's what we're trying to get past. Maybe for future action, give you the latitude to have the latitude now, but come back in a year, give me data a year from now, Somebody. Come back a year from now with a report.
Lynn Hurtak
1:12:49PM I think it needs to be SIX months because it's got to be in our term.
Alan Clendenin
1:12:53PM Okay. SIX months. Give me a date.
Guido Maniscalco
1:12:57PM [Inaudible]
Lynn Hurtak
1:12:58PM Here is the problem. They have no money to do planting because we denied them the money last week.
Alan Clendenin
1:13:05PM Let's give them the money.
Naya Young
1:13:08PM Can they do the planting that are type one and then come back and the ones that are for type three -- so they can start, whichever ones with the type ones and come back and talk about the areas where there was a type threes. Not brian.
Alan Clendenin
1:13:33PM Sorry, eric. That we currently have on where our ones, twos, threes go. We don't plant any palms in the tree-mendous program. Let me pull up the environmental benefits from each group and then let's take a look at some of the standard planting sites that we have in each of your districts, the Planning Districts, however we want to do it to kind of show why ones, twos or threes are the best fit for that location.
Lynn Hurtak
1:14:13PM I think that works. My only thing is, is there a way for you to -- for us to basically just say we're not going to plant under power lines for a year? And instead we'll incentivize those ones and twos that can go in places that aren't under power lines? Because then it might give some room to plant type threes in ybor, but I don't know. I'm sorry. I'm going to let one of you all -- I think that works.
Alan Clendenin
1:14:49PM I think the SIX months, let's move forward because we can always come back and change things. Let's give them the authority to start planting trees. Let's give them authority to start planting the trees. Give a report back so we can do an accounting, have They heard -- if They gave us a report They can come back and say, did They hear us? If They came back and said 60 percent of the trees are crape myrtles, now we'll take that away. Let's give the ability to start planting the damn trees.
Lynn Hurtak
1:15:19PM I make a motion that you come back with the report that you just stated as a written staff report -- the System.
1:15:32PM Can you do that by July 16 or July 30 better? No one. I'll go it alone. Yes, July 30 would be great.
1:15:45PM Actually, we have room, although Councilman Viera has a couple, but those are quick. We'll have a motion to provide where you've been planting these type -- how many of each, where you have been planting them --
1:16:09PM On July 30.
Alan Clendenin
1:16:10PM Motion from Councilwoman Hurtak. Second from Councilman Maniscalco. All those in favor, aye. Opposed? Ayes have it. Mr. Shelby.
Lynn Hurtak
1:16:17PM In the meantime, can you come back with a resolution so we can at least start funding the type one and type two tree plantings to get you doing something? Is that a possibility?
Alan Clendenin
1:16:32PM What do we need --
Lynn Hurtak
1:16:34PM I'm talking about your tree-mendous program. What do we need to say -- we can't pass a resolution here because we're at a workshop, but if between now and say this evening -- well, no. Never minds. Marty, I apologize. It would have to be July 16.
Martin Shelby
1:16:53PM If I can, the question would be, because I don't recall off the top of my head what that resolution authorized, was it a budget amendment?
1:17:02PM Was there a contract associated.
Lynn Hurtak
1:17:03PM Yes. We want to give nelson that contract.
Martin Shelby
1:17:07PM What is the term of the contract? Once you pass it, you are locked into the term.
Lynn Hurtak
1:17:11PM My point is the type one and type two trees. That contract was specific to that particular vendor. I believe it was for a year. So it had the schedule of trees good for install and costs for that year. In order to execute that, yes, they could simply re-present that again and we could approve that to move the contract, but that would allow them -- to be clear, there is nothing in that contract that dictates the ratio at which the plants are purchased. I'm -- again, wondering, I think you should -- back the information, if there is something you would be able to instructor direct that says in between the time of August through this date, we would like a ratio of no more than ten percent, something that would say the contract goes forward but coming over the top with other guidance that perhaps would -- okay.
Martin Shelby
1:18:18PM Short answer no. No. It's a contract. It is a negotiated contract.
Alan Clendenin
1:18:26PM She's saying, the contract has the trees. Doesn't tell how many of each tree. Staff has the ability.
Martin Shelby
1:18:34PM Let's get clear on that then. Staff can internally pick and choose and you limit it to the amount of money it cost type one and type two tree. Whenever that money runs out in the budget amendment you run out of money, is that correct? Is it just to be used tree trust fund which is quite large?
Alan Clendenin
1:18:59PM Planning District.
Martin Shelby
1:19:00PM I think then that would be --
Alan Clendenin
1:19:03PM Let's wait for the report before we make definitive action. Let's move forward. I think we move forward with whatever business to move forward spending the money. Before we pin it down further than we have, please take bottle brushes off the list.
Naya Young
1:19:19PM If we say yes, then they are going to plant -- we don't know which ones, which percentage is type one, type two, type three. That's why we didn't pa is it the last time.
Lynn Hurtak
1:19:31PM Let's get the July 30th report then.
Alan Clendenin
1:19:35PM We're going to wait for the July report. Is there any other action of City Council?
Naya Young
1:19:43PM It can't go -- it's like one and done. Either you give them and plant -- I think that's ridiculous.
Alan Clendenin
1:19:53PM I think we beat this dead horse. Thank you. Got a motion to receive and file. That does conclude the business of this Tampa City Council workshop. Motion to receive and file. Second from Councilman Miranda. All those in favor, aye. Ayes have it. See you at 5:01 p.m. [ sounding gavel ] disclaimer: this file represents an unedited version of realtime captioning which should neither be relied upon for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim transcript. Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the proceedings may need to hire a court reporter. ▶ meeting video the information contained in these pages represents an unedited version of realtime captioning which should neither be relied upon for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim transcript. Persons requiring a verbatim transcript may need to hire a court reporter. © - City Of Tampa (813) 274-8211